It’s time for a somber national discussion about [insert latest mass shooting here]

This story, was first published years ago, inspired by some American mass-shooting long-forgotten. Sadly, we are forced to republish it on a regular basis.

It’s time to have a somber national discussion about the [insert shooting tragedy here] tragedy.

Before we get started, let’s go over a few basic ground rules.

1. In the wake of the __________ tragedy, it’s time for us all to come together as a nation and not assign blame. This is not the time, for example, to talk about how it’s easier to purchase a gun in America than it is to vote (or buy French cheese). I fact-checked the graphic below, it’s for real:


And I quote White House spokesman Jary Carney, speaking about the murder at Sandy Hook school in Newtown, Connecticut of at least 18 young children:

“I’m sure [there] will be rather a day for discussion of the usual Washington policy debates,but I don’t think today is that day,” Carney said.

Fortunately, the President’s subsequent statement was better.

2. And we won’t tolerate any second guessing of the Second Amendment right to carry assault weapons, or questions about how the Framers could have possibly envisaged an assault rifle over 200 years ago, or why a “hunter” needs six thousand rounds of ammunition, or kevlar, or smoke grenades to kill a pheasant.

Open Carry gun owner at JC Penney store in Utah

Open -carry gun owner at JC Penney store in Utah. What could possibly go wrong?

3. While the shooter may have been inspired by political fliers showing the victim in cross hairs, or may have come unhinged by inflammatory rhetoric about how said victim was coming for the shooter’s guns, discussing such motivation at this sensitive moment would be completely inappropriate. Not to mention, disrespectful to the __________ victims.

Sarah Palin showed US Rep. Gabby Giffords' district in crosshairs shortly before Giffords was shot in the head and nearly killed in an assassination attempt.

Sarah Palin showed US Rep. Gabby Giffords’ district in crosshairs shortly before Giffords was shot in the head and nearly killed in an assassination attempt.

4. If the tragedy involved someone flying a plane into a government building, or for that matter blowing up a government building, now is not the time to discuss people like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity (no names, please), or Republicans generally (no political parties, please), incessantly trying to convince their audience that the occupant of the White House, or any government official, agency, or entire branch of government is evil and/or “un-American” and/or out to get them or our country or our freedom.


5. And definitely don’t mention the Republican party’s frequent claim and/or insinuation, including suggestions from the GOP candidate himself, Mitt Romney, that the sitting Democratic President is a socialist, which in American parlance actually means “communist,” which actually means “Soviet,” which was America’s deadliest enemy out for our utter destruction.

Sure, it would be entirely understandable why someone would take up arms against a Soviet takeover of the United States, but a Democrat said something mean once about a Republican’s dog, or something, so aren’t both parties really to blame, thus making the charge moot?

tea party

Tea Party rally. The Islamic symbol at the bottom right of the poster is a nice touch. Ira Bostic /

6. Never, ever mention the NRA.  Sure, they’ve proven themselves, time and again, incapable of passing laws that effectively keep guns out of the hands of crazy mass murderers, but that’s no reason to blame them for the _______ tragedy because it’s just too early to cast blame on anyone other than the shooter, who was obviously crazy, and thus this month’s anomaly.

Now, let’s discuss for a moment the race of the shooter and the race of the victims.

7. If the ______________ tragedy involved angry white men opening fire on brown people of faith, this is definitely not the time to replay clips of bombastic commentators and politicians getting white men in places like Kansas whipped into a frenzy over Manhattan’s zoning criteria for non-Christian houses of worship.

8. But feel free to discuss if all brown people, and thus the shooter, or his victims, were Muslims – sorry, I meant to say “radical Islamists.”  And even if neither was a Muslim, make sure you discuss that point incessantly – Muslim, Muslim, Muslim, Muslim – so as to eventually sow suspicion in the public’s mind as to whether there really is a Muslim angle to this story.

9. Speaking of which, this is not the time to discuss the more general fear mongering around words like “Muslim,” including the ongoing, successful, attempt by Republicans to convince their base that our dark-skinned President is one.

Okay, I think we’re ready now to discuss the ______________ tragedy.

First off: It is entirely acceptable for a Republican to opine that the tragedy could have been averted had the victims all been armed (please disregard previous tragedies where armed police officers, or members of the military, were themselves injured by the shooter).

Second: Poignant, but ultimately meaningless, gestures such as lighting tragedy candles at nighttime vigils, and posting anti-gun petitions on, are to be encouraged.

Finally: Clutch your pearls, and all together now, ask the purely rhetorical question: “How could this happen?”

Forty-eight hours after the shooting, return to talking about the Olympics and the latest Kardashian wedding until the next shooting occurs, then refer to point 1 above.

PS: If the victims of the ___________tragedy were black, ignore the above restrictions and take up a collection for the shooter’s defense fund.

Chris Andoe is an author and seasoned activist. After meeting John Aravosis at a Chicago “” protest in 2000, Chris was inspired to organize his own major demonstrations in St. Louis, which drew national attention. Since then, his activism has revolved around LGBT, affordable housing, and mass transit issues. In 2011 Andoe made headlines taking on the amorphous hacker group Anonymous for publishing nude photos of a Bay Area Rapid Transit spokesperson, saying “Puritanical shame-based tactics have no place in the capital of sexual liberation”, and he extensively covered San Francisco's jarring gentrification, from mass evictions to the nudity ban. Andoe was on the ground in Ferguson at the height of the unrest, recording events as they unfolded. Always in the fray, Andoe’s been interviewed by NPR, CBS, and has been quoted from CNN to The St. Louis Post Dispatch.

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242 Responses to “It’s time for a somber national discussion about [insert latest mass shooting here]”

  1. farmbrook says:

    Enough discussion already! Pass some damn laws.

  2. Demosthenes says:

    An excellent repost, John. The NRA and its GOP lackeys don’t care about wildly popular measures to cut back on gun violence. Registration? Banning the sale of military grade guns to civilians, the insane, and terrorists? A national crime prevention database? Nope.

  3. Niblet58 says:

    Follow the money, as in every thing else sinister and vile. Arms dealers, sorry but gun manufacturers are nothing but this species of slime, make a ton of cash off the scared Americans who think any pol is coming for their guns. After EVERY shooting like this, gun sales skyrocket because the gun humpers think this one will make the pols come for their guns, so they buy more.
    The arms dealers LOVE these shootings, no matter who gets killed… kids, pols, gang bangers… to them anything that increases gun sales is great.

  4. Au contraire mon frère!

    As always, now is not the time to politicize [insert latest mass shooting here]!!

  5. Tom Reagan says:

    regulating guns will not solve this problem

  6. Barbara Wayne says:

    just before I looked at the bank draft which was of $6998 , I accept that my neighbour woz like they say actualy earning money part-time at there labtop. . there sisters neighbour haz done this for less than 9 months and a short time ago took care of the dept on there place and purchased a gorgeous Lotus Carlton . check this…


  7. Sonia Jaquiline says:

    just before I looked at the bank draft which was of $6998 , I accept that my neighbour woz like they say actualy earning money part-time at there labtop. . there sisters neighbour haz done this for less than 9 months and a short time ago took care of the dept on there place and purchased a gorgeous Lotus Carlton . check this…



  8. Blackbird says:

    “A well regulated Militia”
    certainly you’re not insinuating that the National Guard includes ordinary citizens. Certainly this does not mean ordinary citizens that are untrained, unregulated and law-abiding/criminals to be armed to the teeth and be counted as “a well regulated Militia”. Because if this is “well regulated” – I’d certainly hate to see what is meant by “an unregulated Militia”.
    Of course we have a federal armed service today? So what?
    No, Madison was not imagining high power velocity assault firearms that shoot two bullets a second? Again, so what?

    Of course one cannot blame the Supreme Court – they are left to rule on rules and a vague language that do not fit nor relate to the extraordinary fire-power or weapons of today allowed and carried by ordinary citizens.

    And if you’re going to shimmy onto the argument that citizens should be allowed to keep these arms to keep the government in check… then to that argument I answer: You do realize you are bringing your AK-15 to a drone fight? The US Air Force, the US Navy, and the GD US Marines… and they never lose a fight.

    Again, I return to my original argument… it is long past time that the Second Amendment by revisited and re-amended. It is not a part of the Constitution it is simply an amendment… and our history shows that various amendments have continually been amended to grow and fit the times of our changing circumstance and history for the betterment, safety and happiness of all our citizens.
    Each day in America, 90 Americans are killed and another 160 maimed or disabled for life – this certainly meets the criteria for alarm and making changes.

    No other modern industrialised nation today is suffering this amount of death and carnage… we is wrong with us?

  9. lynchie says:

    3 years late and a dollar short

  10. emjayay says:

    The last part of that sentence was uncalled for and unnecessary.

    Besides, gun owners blow their brains out quite regularly – about 50 of them a day, over 200,000 a years.. Often their kids including toddlers kill themselves and others too with their guns.

  11. emjayay says:

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
    security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
    shall not be infringed.”

    Do our militias (= National Guard units) bring their own guns and rifles from home? Do we have standing federal armed services today? Was Madison imagining high power accurate rifles that can shoot two bullets a second?

    Blame the Supreme Court.

  12. jdmeth says:

    Can you imagine the Pulse shooter opening fire as he came in the door and yellow shirt guy blowing him right back out? Remember for three hours no one with a gun died there, to date no mass shooting victim has been armed.

  13. Blogvader says:

    Talking about this is a waste of time.

    Nothing’s going to change.

  14. 2karmanot says:

    Hi Indigo! :-)

  15. Badgerite says:

    Yeah. Pretty much sums it up. In Trump, the GOP has gotten the candidate they have always dreamed of. They deserve him.

  16. sane37 says:

    The majority of Americans (even gun owners) want reform.

    Unfortunately, our politicains are owned by corporations who profit over death and mayhem.

  17. Demosthenes says:

    While this is satire, it could be lifted verbatim from a GOP elected official who is owned by the NRA.

  18. Bill_Perdue says:

    It’s time to end US wars of aggression under the Bushes, the Clintons and Obama. The insanity of Obama’s military mass murderers is bred in his wars against the Arab and muslim world.

  19. Blackbird says:

    From another part of the world – just looking in on this – I can’t keep silent and have to let off some steam for what it’s worth…

    1,200 days and 1,000 mass shootings of 4 or more souls in America.

    All the American people seem to get are these wonderful and moving speeches from local authorities, the media and the President. It’s all become a joke. It’s the same speech just with the city, date and number of victims changed to apply to the latest incident.

    Just more political posturing with plenty of bandages, antiseptics, kisses and hugs – when are the American people going to come to the courage of their convictions and say: enough of this madness?
    When is the world going to begin hearing some solutions to your international disgrace? When is someone going to grow a pair and begin addressing the main problem?

    You are swimming up to your eyeballs in guns, weapons and killing machines of every calibre to arm every American citizen 3 times over. This is not normal, this is not how normal citizens of most modern nations live. We are virtually free of this madness.
    The main firearms problem in the United States is simply the Second Amendment.
    It has to be amended. It is not written in stone or by the hand of God – it’s not even a part of the constitution – it’s simply just an amendment.

    Amendments have been changed and amended all through your history to fit the time or moment: Women’s right-to-vote, abolishing slavery, prohibition of alcohol, voting age changed to 18+, etc, etc.
    Other modern industrialized nations around the world have done just this and virtually ended the bi-weekly bloodbaths in their streets… have you become so numb and calloused by the death and heartache around you that you can no longer understand that much of the advanced world does not live this way?

    When problems or causes that can harm or kill people appear – Americans put their best foot forward to find an immediate solutions – but somehow when it comes to dealing with this arsenal of killing-machines that are taking the lives of 90 of your fellow Americans every single day – you deal with it like drunken pygmies. Shame on you all.

  20. therling says:

    …where they have a “well-regulated militia,” a phrase I think I’ve heard elsewhere but I can’t quite put my finger on it.

  21. says:

  22. perljammer says:

    What premise? That “mass murder” is not an appropriate descriptor for an event where no one was murdered? If Clare Davis succumbs to her devastating injury, then it’s a tragic SINGLE murder/suicide. Otherwise, it’s a very messy and traumatizing suicide. The really sad thing about these murder/suicides, is that the perpetrator always gets it in the wrong order.

  23. Lawerence Collins says:

    When these type of senseless acts become the oddity and not the norm, I’ll accept your premise, not a moment sooner! I never want to become so callous that even the death of one child due to such avoidable circumstances becomes the everyday..

  24. In Cognito says:

    As a Brit looking on from abroad, this is very sad to see. True, but sad nonetheless.

  25. In Cognito says:

    I completely agree. As a foreigner thats actually the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

  26. In Cognito says:

    To be quite honest with you all, from a British perspective, it baffles me how there can be any opposition to changes in gun control regulation. But hey, what do I know? What seems like common sense to me on the outside looking in probably isn’t common sense at all.

  27. ARP says:

    Also a more practical reason. Many gun ranges and gun classes require you to be an NRA member. You also can get a discount on ammo. It’s the gun equivalent of a AAA card. Now, if the AAA said they were opposed to any mileage standards in cars or car safety regulations, some people might drop them. Many more would stay on.

  28. pappyvet says:

    I’m with you Chris but a somber national discussion will not happen.

  29. karmanot says:

    Thank you for sharing sicko. #creepy lol

  30. karmanot says:

    I’ll repeat it once again: The NRA leadership is a terrorist organization and a threat to the safety and well being of American citizens. When a nation obliges the murder of its own children, it has lost the mandate of legitimacy.

  31. Naja pallida says:

    Which was why I asked. Pointing to Switzerland as a model of universal gun ownership does absolutely nothing to bolster the NRA’s case that guns should be freely available to anyone who wants one.

  32. Naja pallida says:

    The same reason why they accept the lies from their Congresspeople, the lies from Fox Noise, the lies from Rush Limbaugh, etal… because that is what they really believe, and as long as they’re loud enough to drown out voices of the actual majority, nothing else matters. Of course, all those other people laugh all the way to the bank, while the rank and file who support them see no real benefit.

  33. perljammer says:

    How many? Of course the answer is zero. I doubt that you’re really that stupid; you must be very upset. I was merely pointing out that the term “mass murder” is not appropriate in this case. I suppose the article author thinks himself clever to drag out this shopworn generic satire; in this case it just doen’t fit.

  34. Lawerence Collins says:

    Seek qualified mental help! Quick…

  35. Lawerence Collins says:

    The right to own a gun! Not a whole day arsenal! For me this all ties back to the first, “DSSRZS”, Satan Reagan and his defunding of mental health facilities!

  36. ArthurH says:

    I notice that the NRA will flood Colorado TV stations with ads over the weekend to counter any grumbling about gun violence over the recent incident. Ads favoring sensible gun control might well monitor TV stations in Phoenix which have run oodles of news stories involving irresponsible gun users. One a week ago involved a guy who called 911 to complain his neighbor’s dog had escaped and was ripping up his garden. But when the owner entered the yard to capture the dog, the guy picks up a gun and heads outside. The 911 tape had the operator telling the guy “don’t go outside,” “don’t confront your neighbor,” and “put away your gun.” And then you hear two shots killing the neighbor. The guy later claimed he was standing his ground as the neighbor was threatening him with physical harm. Yet two witnesses said when the neighbor so the guy aiming his gun at him he raised his hands in the air in surrender.

    By the way, the dog that triggered the incident is still with us.

  37. Lawerence Collins says:

    Clutch your pearls a little tighter, Mildred! You, vile, odious fraud! Arrogant, delusional and clueless, just how your masters like you!

  38. Lawerence Collins says:

    How many dead would’ve made you happy! That these incidents keep happening at all is an outrage!

  39. Lawerence Collins says:

    Oh! Only the gunman died! Whew! All you terrified, crying children, who may have long lasting effects! Just get over it, move on! “American guest”, said so! Um…Tell us all, how many times you’ve been in this situation!?

  40. ArthurH says:

    Ah, the old “America Love It or Leave It” response. I was wondering when they’d dust off that chestnut to use against people who love their country so much they want to correct a major wrong rather than tolerate it.

  41. Outspoken1 says:

    I am so sorry you think your little .45 cal handgun would stop an armed takeover of the country by the government. You control the government by participation, involvement and not with a few handguns. You also control the government by allying with fellow citizens – not alienating them. Government control happens when people fight among themselves (as is happening now) and don’t keep their eye on the ball.

  42. Outspoken1 says:

    They recalled and successfully defeated two and one resigned to avoid a recall and allow the Democrats to hold the seat. I am so embarrassed to be a Coloradoan and have our legislature ‘assaulted’ by gun nuts (yes, I am a gun owner) who can’t live with ‘only’ a 15 round magazine. Sheesh!!

  43. TheOriginalLiz says:

    Too many people terrified of change whose only security is the imagined protection of their guns. Besides, it’s not their children, after all.

  44. lilyannerose says:

    Confront it. If over 20 little children getting executed didn’t change the song in this country, it’s not going to change.

  45. Indigo says:

    Speaking of which, I have a funeral service to assist at this morning. Fellow shot himself with one of the guns from his amazing gun collection . . . another Mayerling Incident.

  46. Indigo says:

    You’re new here. This is the ritual blog posted whenever there’s another (news-worthy) shooting.

  47. Nathanael says:

    When the 2nd amendment was passed, it was understood that reasonable “regulations” included things like requiring all gun owners to keep their ammunition at a central, government-run magazine. (This was a common local law in 1789.)

    Just try to get the NRA to agree to that law today!

    The problem is not really the 2nd amendment; the problem is that the 2nd amendment was badly written, and lunatics have been taking advantage of that.

  48. Nathanael says:

    Well, that’s why the slave states passed it.

    My father actually researched the history, and the free states passed the 2nd amendment for a different reason. Basically they were worried about a violent struggle between an unelected king vs. an elected parliament, which was a fight which had happened several times in the last few hundred years, and they wanted parliamentary supporters to have guns.

    But, fat lot of good the 2nd amendment did us when Bush became President without being elected. Even Congress rolled over and played dead.

  49. Nathanael says:

    My father researched the history of the 2nd Amendment.

    It is actually about fighting against an oppressive government, but not the sort which the right-wingers think of. It’s based on similar provisions in the “English Bill of Rights” from the 1689.

    The situation feared — which had happened several times before as of 1689 — was one of the king unilaterally seizing people’s weapons. There were two concerns here:
    (1) one was that many people relied on these guns for subsistence hunting, i.e. it was taking their food away;
    (2) the other was that the people with guns were organized into the local militia by Parliament or a local elected government, and taking away the guns was part of the fight between the unelected King and the elected Parliament.

    The solution was that people in local militias authorized by elected government (like Parliament) would be guaranteed the right to keep their guns.

    At the time of the American Revolution, in many states, all except miniscule quantities of ammunition was required by law to be kept in government-run magazines. It wasn’t safe to let people just keep it at home! Everyone was happy with this. But in the run-up to the American revolution, the British attempted to seize people’s private ammunition (used for hunting) which was held at the government-run magazines, and *this* is what inspired people to remember the English Bill of Rights and put the Second Amendment in the Constitution.

    Regulations were strict. People deemed mentally incompetent to own guns weren’t allowed to. There were rules on where you could store your ammunition (generally, in the government-run magazine only). Firing a gun without just cause would get you arrested, and cause you to lose your gun rights. You had to obey the local elected government.

    The sort of restrictions on guns which many “gun control” supporters are have proposed are entirely consistent with George Washington’s understanding of the Second Amendment — George Washington, who supressed the Whisky Rebellion — it was designed to protect subsistence hunting, and to protect militias who were working for a duly elected government.

    These are the sort of sensible restrictions which the NRA opposes, because the NRA is run by dangerous lunatics and paid for by gun manufacturers.

  50. Nathanael says:

    Oh, I’ve got to remember that one. “National Man-Gun Love Association”. Describes Wayne LaPierre’s attitude well.

  51. Nathanael says:

    The problem is that the NRA, run by Wayne LaPierre, fights to make sure straw buyers are allowed to buy guns. The NRA fights to make sure that domestic violence abusers are allowed to buy guns. The NRA fights to make sure that incompetent untrained people are allowed to buy guns.

    Wayne LaPierre is a dangerous crazy person, who threatened an intern with a gun back in the 1970s. As long as he is running the NRA and the NRA has influence, we’re never going to get sensible, enforced gun regulations, because he opposes anything sensible. Perhaps because anything sensible would cause HIM to have his permit revoked, although anything sensible would cause no trouble for the vast majority of gun owners.

  52. Nathanael says:

    In Switzerland, you are issued with bullets for the defense of the country — if any of those bullets go missing (for instance because you fire them!) you are arrested.

    Switzerland has *extremely* strict gun laws. The Founders did, as far as we can tell, look to Switzerland as a model… but our current US laws bear no resemblance to Switzerland’s. In Switzerland, all gun ownership is, in fact, tracked by the government.

  53. Nathanael says:

    That’s the thing; those gun nerds who rant about liberty are, for the most part, not the First Missouri Volunteers or the abolitionist militia of Kansas (to use some Civil War examples). They pretend like they are, but they are nothing like it.

  54. Nathanael says:

    Further, the NRA is bought and paid for by the gun manufacturers. It doesn’t even represent the views of its membership. (There are multiple surveys showing this.) And it lies to its members.

    I don’t know why so many of its members accept the NRA leadership’s outrageous lies so easily, but my guess is lead poisoning from vaporized bullets and bullets in meat.

  55. crazymonkeylady says:

    There will NEVER be a national consensus. The NRA has bought and paid for all the elected officials. The madness will continue.

  56. Naja pallida says:

    This is obviously an old post, recycled to make the point that we keep having incidents gun violence, and all anyone ever does is express the appropriate level of shock and outrage, and then shrug and move on.

  57. guest2 says:

    Come on this blogs getting ridiculous lol! Mass murder my butt, only the gunman died.

  58. Naja pallida says:

    Are you advocating for mandatory military service where everyone is trained in proper firearm use, and some of the most strict gun laws of any nation, or just throwing out a random country name?

  59. MuhGuns says:

    Or Switzerland!

    Oh wait….

  60. Monoceros Forth says:

    Not too good at counting either!

  61. Monoceros Forth says:

    Oh, please. When you look at the people who are most obsessed with collecting guns in this nation, do you see protectors of liberty, equality, and fraternity? No. You see mostly a pack of angry thugs who don’t require much prodding (or much drink) to get them to admit they’re still pissed a n—-r is President.

    I may not like our current government much but I’d rather deal with them than you lot.

  62. karmanot says:

    Amen to that!

  63. karmanot says:

    Still a butt head, and we haven’t even reached the weakness of your argument.

  64. karmanot says:


  65. karmanot says:


  66. karmanot says:

    Thanks for the hysteria: OMG millions will die!!!!!! Somebody needs a nap.

  67. UncleBucky says:

    You just won a free Pan Am ticket to the Libertarian Paradise of East Somalia. Send a telegram and lose your gummint. No gummint, no tax collectors, no regulators, no regulations, no nothing. Same old same old NRAer nonsense…

  68. karmanot says:

    It’s time to change terminology from ‘gun nuts’ to ‘gun terrorists.’

  69. UncleBucky says:

    Here come the NRAers/Libertarians/Neo-Confederates/MountainMen and their ladies defending their “man”‘s opinion… Meh.

  70. Naja pallida says:

    “…form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic
    , provide for the common defence, promote the general
    , and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our

    Mission almost accomplished.

  71. Naja pallida says:

    Exactly! The right to own a gun is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution. The right not to get shot isn’t.

  72. basenjilover says:

    Never going to happen. Look at Colorado when NRA had clueless Coloradans recalled 2 or 3 Democrats for supporting gun control.

  73. nicho says:

    Tell you what. If you think universal gun ownership creates a safe society. Why not pack up and move to just such a place. You could choose Somalia. Or Iraq. Or Afghanistan. They have higher rates of gun ownership than the US. Write back in six months or so and tell us how safe you feel.

    I have spent time in countries with strict gun regulations. I feel immensely safer there than I do in the US.

  74. cole3244 says:

    no matter how many children & adults are murdered the gun nuts will always be just that, gun nuts.

  75. perljammer says:

    Mass murder? So far, the only person killed is the shooter himself.

  76. Moobz says:

    So has the theory worked? There are guns everywhere – is the government your servant?

  77. Milo_Bloom says:

    It occurs to me that perhaps, amongst the “Cult-o-left,” “Waffle-Iron” is code for something?

  78. lynchie says:

    Hey your Mom has the meatloaf ready.

  79. Wfeather1942 says:

    Since the US govt. spends $300 mil of our tax dollars each year for approx 3,000 federal & state employees to manage the background check system to prevent maybe 1 total injury, while as in 2010 using only govt. data, law abiding armed civilians managed to prevent over 9,225 murders and prevent over 54,000 injuries, explain again which is more cost effective eh sunshine!

    Oh wait, explain again how a law, that legally does not apply as a prosecutable charge against the bad guy, will stop said bad guy from committing said crime, do tell? See 5th amendemnt & Haynes vs US 390, 85, 1968 and get a brain!

    Maybe you can explain how the BATF refuses to prosecute more than 1% of the 1.83 mil rejected since 1997, does nothing about the 95.52% of bad guys who dont even attempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with, only prosecuted 44 total out of 139,651 rejected in 2010 26 straw buyers, 11 felons, 7 domestic violence abusers and no crazies, all while letting over 297,577 straw buyers pass the background check to buy over 446,000 guns in 2010.

    Seriously, what is going to be more cost effective, persecuting the law abiding not responsible for the crimes, or prosecuting those actually responsible for committing the crimes?

    2001-2011 NTSHA data shows drunk driving has reduced by -28% in the last 10 years.

    Did they ban cars from sober drivers, NOPE!

    Did they ban cars from sober drivers crossing city or state lines, NOPE!

    Did they ban certain makes of cars from sober drivers, NOPE!


  80. Milo_Bloom says:

    No, no, you’re confused. You see, he was throwing out nonsensical words with no relevance, I simply did the same in support.

    You, on the other hand, obviously had parents who neglected the concept of manners. But, as I said, it’s given us a keen insight into the weakness of your argument and for that I am grateful.

  81. Wfeather1942 says:

    The waffles called and complained, it was indeed terrible to insult waffles in such a way, waffles are sweet, delectable morsel of breakfast goodness.

    Progressives are inherent hate spewing pathological lying 7 times inherently more violent immoral sociopaths whose komrades have killed 200 million men, women and children who didnt want their socialistic paradise of no individual rights paradise over the last 125 years, who cant stand in ANY FASHION to have their lies challenged and proven to be a lie!

    So one can indeed see how the waffles would be upset by such a comparison!

  82. lynchie says:

    I think you beat me with waffle iron, butt head

  83. Milo_Bloom says:

    Actually the rights of the few outweigh the wishes of the “any.”

  84. Milo_Bloom says:

    Ahhh.. name calling. How hostile!

    I guess from that one could gauge the strength of your argument.

  85. lynchie says:

    Butt head

  86. lynchie says:

    so the wishes of the few outweigh the many and by the way the Indians were all killed with guns.

  87. lynchie says:

    Well if I have to explain why a typewriter, computer and a blog can’t kill anyone especially kids we have little to talk about. Yeah, I know wrap the flag around your shoulders and scream constitution…. that is bullshit. The constitution does not give you the right to kill innocent people or walk the streets with semi automatic weapons. You keep claiming guns don’t kill people do and I agree so let me background check everyone of you idiots to find out if all the screws are loose or just a few. Selective use of the constitution do defend the few is just plain bullshit. Go collect your 50 cents from the NRA for posting here and do us all a favor blow your brains out.

  88. Milo_Bloom says:

    It is a shame one can only click “Like” once.

    Very well said.

  89. Curious says:

    Here’s a novel idea. There’s what, maybe 3 countries on the planet who’s citizens are armed, American being one that was designed with the idea that if the people are armed, the government will be kept the servant, and not become the master. A lot of you here seem to laugh at that idea, and I’ll not waste considerable time trying to convince you to read a history book or two. You want a “gun-free” society? Fine. Quietly pack your belongings and move to one of the 200+ countries on the planet that have your “idea” of safety in mind, where you safety is not your own responsibility, and you can run to mommy government to protect you when you feel you are in danger .

    Some of us here in American actually grew up, and realize our safety is our own responsibility We cherish the freedoms our ancestors found and died to gain, and understand the tragedies that are sometimes the price of those freedoms. We understand that those terrible prices are far cheaper than the price you want to pay.

    You think the often-quoted 11,000 deaths/year by firearms is high? You think 20 adorable children is high? Try 50,000 children, try 500,000, try 5 million, when its your so-called protectors decide the best way to “protect the country” is elimination of you. I’m sure any remaining American Indians can give you some insight to what happens when only the government has the guns.

    So…let me know if you need any help packing, although you’ll have to carry your chains yourself, slaves. I’m sure what every country you move to, the government there will surely have “your” best interests in mind.

  90. Curious says:

    Explain your need for a typewriter, computer, blog, the ability to post here.

  91. Tec Sg Beatty says:

    “Activist”, eh?
    “LGBT”. Whatever someone cares to do in their own life is none of my business. This issue becomes MY business when you incessantly try to cram it down the throats of we whom disagree with, and do not support, the LGBT lifestyle CHOICE.
    “Affordable housing”. Housing miraculously becomes more “affordable” if you have a job so you can pay your own way. I, for one, and damned sick of paying other people’s rent/mortgage. Get off your ass and do it yourself. The same goes for your food, clothing, medical care, dope, smokes, booze, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
    “Mass transit”. I paid a lot of hard-earned money for my 4×4 diesel truck, and I’m damned well going to enjoy driving it. If I want to be packed in amongst others like cattle, I’ll devise a way to teleport myself back to Nazi Germany. (We KNOW how THAT worked out).
    Tell ya what, slick: mind your own business and leave we producers of wealth the Hell alone. And quit playing the Race Card. It’s getting REAL old.

  92. sane37 says:

    +1 snark.

  93. Milo_Bloom says:

    Waffle iron.

  94. eggroll_jr says:

    If you look a bit further back in US mass shooting history, you see plenty of activity in the 1920s and 1930s, then a precipitous drop in the 1940s and 1950. You see a pick up in the late 1960s and a further boost in the 1980s with mass shooting becoming pretty much business as usual, even if most shootings are done one on one. The drop in the mid 20th century coincides with a large swath of the young male population and somewhat less directly most of the young female population to military service and conscription. Indeed, the US did not phase out the draft until 1973. Mandatory military service, which still exists in 13 or 14 countries, does a fairly good job at exposing young males with issues, although followup systems may fail. Mandatory national service, including a month of basic military/public emergency training that includes instruction in firearm use, along with the longer socialization of say 11 months in national service, might be one of the most permanent solutions to the mass shooting issue, which usually gets portrayed as a pro-gun/anti-gun debate in the news.

  95. karmanot says:


  96. Milo_Bloom says:

    I think they missed one: 10. Makes sure there is an article that tries to muddy the waters with every conceivable misinterpretation of the problem our society faces, blaming a simple tool, and ignoring the concept of “shall not be infringed” in favor of attacking law abiding citizens and promoting the further advance of oppression by government.”
    Pleased to be of help!

  97. lynchie says:

    Explain the need for a semi automatic anything

  98. 1jetpackangel says:

    Speaking of the NRA, while my dad’s out of town I was tasked with going through his mail and making sure all his bills stay paid. Did you know that the NRA offers a cancer plan now? Seriously, it’s an NRA-sponsored, members-only, cancer-only insurance plan. (Do these people have no idea how many rednecks smoke?)

  99. 1jetpackangel says:

    For some reason that argument just resounded with me, because I’ve heard something similar before: “Don’t tell me how to dress, tell them not to rape.” You’d think it’d be common freakin’ sense, right? Decent human behavior? But NOOO, that might hurt their FEELINGS, because they have the RIGHT to grab our asses and carry a weapon that can unload thirty rounds in four seconds.

  100. BillFromDover says:

    Nothing like starting them out young, is there… especially when they are just having fun in camos, is there?

    BTW, who is the they?

  101. BillFromDover says:

    10. Wax incessantly about how we can alleviate this problem by providing timely mental illness care for these instigators while striving unceasingly to shit-can the ACA which now provides for it?

    Fucking hypocrites!

  102. pappyvet says:

    These events are becoming common place enough that I do not see that there will be much discussion about it this time around. He used an AR-15 and had lots of ammo. Hate and paranoia,what a combo.

    Used an M-16 in the service as well as an M1A, still have Dad’s M1 Garand. Don’t see any black helos ,feel no need to dig a hole in the backyard. The President is a citizen and he is not a commie or muslim or an alien. Bullets are not being sold with a half life and the only people we really need to “take back our country” from are the very few who have taken most of it and deposited it in over seas accounts..Fear that the government wants to take our guns away is childish at best but it sure helps sales. Having a black President doesn’t hurt either. The membership in hate groups has gone through the roof since he was first elected. But whats a few irreplaceable lives measured against roaming around the woods with your militia “brothers.” I don’t see anything advancing soon except the excuses.

  103. karmanot says:


  104. olandp says:

    Yes we do, ortherwise it would be infringing on his freedom. Or something.

  105. lynchie says:

    Instead of controlling firearms we are ramping up our ability to spy on Americans. Maybe the NSA should be snooping for people who are unhinged and threatening to do some violence. They sure haven’t caught shit looking for domestic terrorists. I don’t believe they have stopped a fucking thing. If they had they would trumpet that from Capitol Hill. I think we should just say fuck it and arm ourselves to the teeth. Big business and Congress love when we shoot the shit out of each other keeps our minds occupied on killing civilians and not on the theft of assets by business with the collusion of our congress

  106. guest2 says:

    The man had a semi automatic rifle, can’t do much about gun control there. All I see here is drama and ranting, and why the baby picture? They were adults

  107. jomicur says:

    Please, no! I really don’t want to switch on my TV someday and accidentally see John Hagee, Pat Robertson and David Barton without clothes.

  108. maria says:

    But do we have to live in Wayne LaPierre’s wet dream of Dodge City in the 1870s?

  109. caphillprof says:

    We have to wait for a gunman to take out several fetuses in one of these mass shootings before the nation will have a serious discussion about any right to life for the already born.

  110. caphillprof says:

    As I recall, military bases have strict weapons control.

  111. Vegas Dave says:

    Chris, sad but so true. Different day, same tragedy. Insert names here. Over the past month we have had some kind of mass shooting just about every other day. All we get from politicians is yawns. But, we sure are making sure to protect assault rifles like the forefathers intended.

  112. heimaey says:

    What us worry?

  113. olandp says:

    That will probably happen when we get a “real” American President. In other words, a Republican. Then we can stop all of this election nonsense and have the dictator… er, decider, that God has chosen to be our overlord, I mean protector.

  114. olandp says:

    Call it what it is, ANOTHER VICTORY FOR THE NRA! More guns, more guns.

  115. 10. Prepare yourself for the inevitable report stating that the shooter ______________ was taking legal, prescribed psychotropic medicine _________________. Such psychotropic medication was the cause of the shooter’s derangement. It does not mean that the shooter had a mental illness for which he had sought and received treatment. Nor does it mean that the shooter’s mental illness was beyond the scope of such medications.

  116. 10. Prepare yourself for the inevitable report stating that the shooter ______________ was taking legal, prescribed psychotropic medicine _________________. This naturally means that such psychotropic medication was the cause of the shooter’s derangement. It most certainly does not mean that the shooter had a mental illness for which he had sought and received treatment. Nor does it mean that the shooter’s mental illness was beyond the scope of such medications.

  117. karmanot says:

    Decades of slaughtered school children, Amish kids, politicians, more school kids and more innocent sand the terrorist organization known as the NRA becomes wealthier and can buy off reformers at the drop of a hat—or destroy their career. But, when a military installation is involved, suddenly it’s the last straw.

  118. fletcher says:

    We seem to tolerate quite a lot from gun users. The one time I was present when a gun was set off multiple times where no deer or other game were present was at a gas station in Southern Illinois. Some guy in front of a nearby tavern suddenly pulled out a pistol and fired it six times in the direction of the gas station, shouting “yahoo!” and some expletives. None of the bullets flew at me, but some fellow had a bullet fly below his arm and hit the soda machine he was using right in the Dr. Pepper button. The fellow and the gas station owner called the sheriff’s office. I and two others were asked to stay as witnesses. The patrolman who arrived went into the tavern to talk with the gunman. He came out and said the gunman had just returned from a tour fighting in Iraq and was just letting off steam. It was our patriotic duty to let him party. When the almost victim and gas station owner wouldn’t buy it, the local yokel hinted he might arrest them instead, adding that the soda company would likely replace the machine free of charge. I left my name and contact data but neither apparently pressed charges elsewhere. On reading that the Navy Yard shooter had committed gun crimes earlier, such as firing into the window of a neighbor who complained about his noisy party, but never faced jail time, I know why he eventually shot 12+ people at the Navy Yard. Guns have become more important than people.

  119. lynchie says:

    Remember the hugging and crying at the White House after Newtown. All the politicians getting teary eyed. They couldn’t even pass background checks which fell fully in the NRA argument that guns don’t kill people do. So ergo….check up on who has all the guns. As a nation we are content to all industry after industry, bank after bank do what ever the hell they want. To pay us what they want, to rape us on health care, to take our money for their fuckups, to own congressmen like pet goats and then to cry about how they need more tax cuts because they are job creators and the rabble nod their heads and rush to watch American Idol or see which Kardashian has a sex tape or got pregnant. To say our priorities aren’t in order would be an understatement.

  120. MrNguyen says:

    This additional tragedy brought to you by enough of our elected
    officials who are more concerned about REELECTION than protecting our


    cua go | tranh theu chu thap | cua go cong nghiep | cua go tu nhien

  121. Papa Bear says:

    Oh god, please no — I own a mirror and know other people my age that hopefully do as well…

  122. Naja pallida says:

    Naked carry would allow us all to see who really is compensating.

  123. karmanot says:


  124. MyrddinWilt says:

    The gun murder rate is not increasing very much but the mode of expression is changing. I really don’t think violent video games are the cause of gun murders, its the guns and the National Man-Gun Love Association (NRA). But the video games are encouraging a type of shooter that is harder for the gun-fetishists to ignore.

  125. MyrddinWilt says:

    I am currently deep into design of PRISM-PROOF email along with several other people. The purpose of this project being to allow ordinary people to defend their privacy against a bunch of idiots who think that it is ok to spy on us and then trade the raw signals intelligence to countries like Israel in the hope they give something back.

    Meanwhile because the politicians are spineless cretins who won’t stand up to the worse-than-pedophiles NRA and their supporters it is possible for a loony to get hold of a gun capable of shooting dead tens of people without having to reload.

    Guess which one is going to get me stopped at airports?

    The politicians who support the NRA are going to lose because the spree shooters are going to continue. They can point fingers at video games, the lack of church or fast food but everyone knows that the real and only cause of these tragedies are the guns. Its the guns, its the guns, its the guns.

    And no, I am not being hyperbolic here. Murder is worse than pedophilia. So the NRA is worse than NAMBLA. I don’t see any reason why people’s right to life should be worth less than NRA members preference for their hobby.

  126. mark_in_toronto says:

    The answer is simple . . . America is getting exactly what it has asked for.
    There are so many reasons for this . . . and we all know what they are. And, I guess that’s my point . . . we know, yet we do nothing about it.
    What is needed is a leader or some group of forward-thinkers that will organize a plan on where to start, because right now no one knows where that is.
    Do you start with politics, legislation, the media, religion, corporations, the economy, social services, jobs? How about all of the above?
    Nobody wants to be the first, I guess. Until then . . . expect these same headlines to reoccur on a regular basis.

  127. Jeffrey Karter says:

    On Monday Night Football, the announcer just referred to this as “The latest American tragedy”.

    That’s what it’s become. Just another mass shooting. I think that’s the real tragedy.

  128. Thom Allen says:

    The problem is we wanted to change gun laws according to polls, even the majotiry of NRA members were in favor. But Congress decided to bravely suck up more NRA funds and perks and resist making any changes.

  129. Thom Allen says:

    No, if we were all armed, then we’d need Kevlar body suits and helmets.

  130. Bcre8ve says:

    Just attach it to your AR-15, and you’ll be able to take it anywhere!

  131. Bcre8ve says:

    Ouch! You hit that nail firmly on the head.

  132. Indigo says:

    Oh, no! I’d have to loose at least 15 more pounds before I dare do that.

  133. Indigo says:

    Nice call on “Freedom Maintenance,” very Neo-Orwellian.

  134. Naja pallida says:

    Open carry, as God intended.

  135. Monoceros Forth says:

    You’re right. It’s like the ultimately fruitless kerfuffle about the use of torture: somehow it became acceptable, just a form of “enhanced interrogation”. You have to admit, the battle over whether torture is acceptable ever has been lost and lost badly; now it’s just a question of how much work it should take before it’s approved for use.

  136. karmanot says:

    Yep,—-the old my sister stands on a corner of Melrose and (fill in the blank) and makes $5000.00 a day by using her cell phone.

  137. karmanot says:

    Spam kills people. and ufc-personaltrainer bores them to death.

  138. karmanot says:

    The NRA should be considered a terrorist organization.

  139. karmanot says:

    Ironically, if one projects the conditions in failure of late stage capitalism and the exponential rise in private gun ownership, it seems to me that at some critical tipping point the police state will have to act and it will become a form of martial law called something like ‘Freedom Maintenance.”

  140. nicho says:

    They should just make us all walk around naked — as god intended. Problem solved.

  141. LanceThruster says:

    I’m upset about the bans on backpacks in places that it would totally make sense to be able to carry one. Maybe I’ll have to get a baby bag instead, or will I need a baby as well to pull that off?

    If backpacks are outlawed….

  142. nicho says:

    The new both strategy is that they find a comment already on the site, copy and insert a piece of it as if it’s a new comment — and then attack the spam link at the end.

  143. jomicur says:

    The Second Amendment is America’s version of bread and circuses, a carefully crafted diversion from the evil the government is perpetrating. It may not have been originally designed to lull the simple-minded into complacency about their precious (but illusory) rights, but that’s the way it functions in the 21st century. The genius of the capitalist system is that while the Roman rulers had to provide bread and circuses to the people free of charge, in America the simpletons have to line up and pay for theirs, i.e. their guns. And they’re dumb enough to think that’s freedom.

  144. TheOriginalLiz says:

    just another case of our periodic human sacrifice to the NRA

  145. BeccaM says:

    It seems bottish, which is why I floated the theory.

  146. jomicur says:

    I prefer the term Zimmermaniacs.

  147. jomicur says:

    At least one reader got it. Take heart.

  148. Naja pallida says:

    Those people who turn to their doctor with depression, or some other psychiatric issue, are all too often shoved off with a handful of drugs, instead of actually being treated. So it should really be no surprise that often these disturbed people have sought help before their “break”, and have prescribed these medications. Don’t get me wrong, I think they’re way over-prescribed, by doctors that don’t really know what they’re doing, but I think it is quite short sighted to just put the blame on the drugs; antidepressants are the second best-selling class of drug, after antacids. If it was simply the drugs, chances are we’d have a hell of a lot more violence. Personally, I put the blame more on the fact that we treat people with mental illness as weak and inferior, and that they should somehow be ashamed of themselves. The media portrays mental illness as either something sufferers should just learn to master and get over, or something that they will never have any control over, so should just learn to accept it. What do you suppose someone who is profoundly disturbed going to do when he feels helpless, marginalized, ignored, and ashamed? Many turn to suicide, some turn to violence. We should see it more as a symptom of the state of our health care system, and not pick at one particular niche of that broad-sweeping problem.

  149. Indigo says:

    Fascinating syntax edd uses.I can’t help but wonder whether it’s machine-generated.

  150. Monoceros Forth says:

    Well said. I’ve always hated the whole frothy-mouthed “MA GUNS PROTECT US FROM GUMMINT TYRANNY” argument from the start, partly because there’s no evidence from the founding documents of this nation that the bearing of arms was designed to fight gummint tyranny (“the security of a free state” can hardly be construed to mean that), but mostly because the sort of idiots who extol their supposed love of liberty don’t really seem to give that much of a shit for infringements of any other liberties than the liberty to own guns.

    There’s a lethal circularity to the whole argument. We need guns, so it goes, to protect our Constitutional rights. Yet the only right the gun nuts seem to get all that worked up about is the Second Amendment–which doesn’t endorse unrestricted gun ownership but never mind that. So basically the Second Amendment is meant to guarantee the exercise of the Second Amendment. Yeah, I feel really secure now.

  151. Hue-Man says:

    With all the additional guns that have been purchased during the Obama administration, you can expect the frequency of these incidents to increase proportionately. It may sound callous (I understand the underlying tragedy to individual families) but since the USA doesn’t care enough about gun violence to do something about it, I don’t feel any obligation to care either. The families’ tears are real enough – for the politicians, however, it’s 100% crocodile tears.

  152. cole3244 says:

    over their dead body, bury another one dano and the beat goes on.

  153. Indigo says:

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

  154. BeccaM says:

    Ah, I also see this is a timely and surprisingly cogent reposting of an article from 9 months ago. Well played.

  155. Indigo says:

    We’re accustomed to these incidents and accept them as occasional events in public life. Our ceremonial fussing will pass, the laws will not change. And there it is. If it were otherwise, we’d have rational gun control laws. We can change the laws; we don’t change the laws. Clearly, we’ve already tacitly agreed that it’s all just fine the way it is. I don’t think so but there it is.

  156. BeccaM says:

    I think it’s actually spam up there.

  157. Indigo says:

    You know, that is a valid point and one we’re strangely eager to overlook. There is a further point about the mental healthy of the gun owners to be made, that psychotic paranoia and social disfunction should be legal impediments to owning guns. Guns, after all, only kill people when people who own guns decide to kill people.

  158. nicho says:

    Yeah — if the Navy base had only had armed security, no one would have been shot. Maybe what they needed was a bunch of poorly trained amateur guards.

  159. nicho says:

    If only the naval facility had had armed security — like the NRA wants to put in our schools — none of this would have happened.

  160. Indigo says:

    Of course, because guns don’t kill people, people who own guns kill people.

  161. nicho says:

    The Second Amendment was put in the Constitution to protect the slave patrols in the slave states. Those states were afraid the federal government would regulate militias and they wanted to maintain the right to hunt down and murder escaping slaves.

  162. Indigo says:

    The Zimmermanites do and the Governor’s lackeys. Beyond that is the vast disenfranchised. I can’t help but suspect our votes are somehow overlooked.

  163. Indigo says:

    Since the Whiskey Rebellion of 1784.

  164. Mark says:

    your all right even your all wrongrussian escorts kitchener

  165. edd says:

    each person personality is base upon his environment in and outside his home, is not about guns its not about the said person, its more on what kind of upbringing he gets from his home and what kind of environment and society he grows with


  166. The 2nd Amendment, written by a collective body of legislators over 200 years ago who were haunted by fear, ignorance, and drowning in dangerous emotions. The law itself had nothing to do with freedom and safety for a nation, but everything to do with designing a law that was written and put into place over two centuries ago to protect a body of people who had committed mass murder against humanity. This was our United States History, and these are the facts. And this is a law you wish to defend and keep as is? WOW.

    On a simpler note, closing the loop-holes, re-enforcing thorough back ground checks, regulating the manufacturing of weapons has absolutely nothing to do with taking away our guns. Or violating our second amendments rights. It does however in it’s intent, has everything to do with saving lives, for life’s sake.

    The GOP lost the election, and now instead of moving this country forward, they continue backwards, stirring the fear pot again with their sick propaganda, and are indeed showing the world how immature some of America can really be with deadly assaults on a collective that chooses to live in the past, even with a history that was based on murder, death and destruction of many to serve the few. This ignorance of the facts is sickness that continues to haunt many, and it’s maddening to those who really know and deserve peace, and freedom, and love.

    Most “intelligent” gun owners want the regulations that expired during the Bush Administration to be reinstated. The second amendment is there to protect the US population from invaders. But it could be used also to protect the individual from a corrupt Government, and it’s military as well. It could even be there to protect the invaders who now live here, who are criminals and drug cartels. Where does it all begin, and end, at the end of a gun? Or do we as a nation who claims itself to be the greatest, the most successful, the most progressive, come together and talk about how we can write and provide a law that reflects our current predicament, and that will serve us better as a nation, and not an institution of ignorance of thought and theory.

    We are now a “global” society. We have to be mindful of the collective, not the few. When we come together and promote life, we do great things. We can make good history by learning from our own truth in our history. We have to begin to understand this in order to never repeat the bad in our history. This law, this second amendment was written under false hope and pretense, and now that so many in our culture owns weapons, we need a law that will protect us or we will just repeat our sad and demonic history over and over again by allowing mass murders to kill us all, and not even have the right to experience freedom because we can’t come to an agreement.

    Please come to an agreement that will serve the world for good, for life, and the pursuit of happiness for all peoples.

  167. beerbob says:

    This is the one thing in common that all the mass Shooters/ US Bombers over the last 20 years had in common. They were all on antipsychotic meds Read the side effects on these things.

  168. NWProf says:

    Writing credits

    Tom Laughlin (screenplay) (as Frank Christina)
    Delores Taylor (screenplay) (as Teresa Christina)

    Tom Laughlin and Delores Taylor were married to each other for the Billy Jack movies

    For some additional quotes go to this site:

  169. FunMe says:

    2nd person I had a discussion with: a stupid 17 year old kid who doesn’t seem to get reality. He’s a rich CONservative brat who doesn’t how people, with easy access to guns, WILL kill. And people who can get guns easily will be the ones to get them and kill. I forwarded a few links, including ones from here, but after a while of discussing things in a civil manner, he brought out the “liberal” card, which I told him I proudly wear. When he saw that it was a JFK quote, and criticized that, I told him that it was CONservatives who killed JFK.

    I wasn’t going to waste time with little minds like him, still in high school and can’t vote yet. But more importantly, he’s in California, so his biased views will NEVER have an impact in California.

    Still, I know this guy from some spiritual trips I took for volunteerism. I would have thought he would have better respect for me as someone older. I was wrong.

    So I defriended him in Facebook! It felt GREAT! :-) LOL

  170. Matt Starr says:

    the attack today in china did not result in deaths. But in..A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People’s Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 21 dead and some 90 injured. Analysts have blamed mental health problems caused by rapid social change for the rise in these kind of mass murder and murder-suicide incidents.

    Nanping school massacre

  171. FunMe says:

    Sadly we saw that with the Occupy movement in the US. But I really do there will be a resurgence, maybe not with the same organization, but another one. Eventually people will be so pissed off when they WILL say enough is enough!

  172. FunMe says:

    I know. But we can’t stop or else they’ll make it even worse. It’s bad enough as it is, therefore, we need to always fight back, even when “hope” (a word Obama destroyed) seems far away.

  173. karmanot says:

    So true, so sad.

  174. karmanot says:

    It seems like ages since we have been waging this war FM.

  175. Tomasz Osinski says:

    one more thing. just read that the youngest firearm owner in USA is only 10 months old – i mean how stupid you actually are ?????? and you call yourself religious ???? shame on you

  176. Tomasz Osinski says:

    USA – used to be a great nation, but right now USA is paying with life of children for what is standing for – freedom to be whatever you want to be and do whatever you want to do. any idiot can buy a weapon in USA and NOBODY care to check if people who posses fire arms are mental stable. it’s all about the money. sorry to say that, but most of people here in Europe agree that Americans deserve all this pain. Americans are idiots who sell weapons to idiots. Just do it in your own country – kill each other and don’t come to Europe !!!!

  177. FunMe says:

    Oh gosh, now I got a high school CONservative kid write something on his own blog: “Let’s mourn the losses in Newtown rather than take advantage of the situation to scrutinize gun control laws. The more important thing today is that 26 people died in Newtown. Please stop attacking organizations such as the NRA, and while I do think that certain people should not be allowed to have the weapons that they currently possess, there are many capable people who deserve the right to bear arms.”

    This time I had a more intelligent response than the first time thanks to your help.

  178. FunMe says:

    Sadly, yes.

  179. Naja pallida says:

    Feel free.

  180. FunMe says:

    Thanks everyone for your responses. It will help me formulate an answer to what she posted.
    PS: I don’t even think she’s a republiCON but she sure thinks like one!

  181. FunMe says:

    Very good points

  182. FunMe says:

    Well put! Can I quote you?

  183. Max_1 says:

    Great last p.s. line!

    B R A V O!!!!!


  184. drdick52 says:

    My point which nobody seems to get, is that the plain language of the amendment makes clear that the right to bear arms is directly linked to the maintenance of a well ordered militia and NOT a blanket right for all Americans to own as many guns as they want.

  185. drdick52 says:

    No, but that misreading makes it far more difficult to insure that this does not happen again.

  186. karmanot says:

    Even more sickening is the media shoving mics in the face of traumatized children for fist person accounts. What deplorable, sick, vulture f**ks.

  187. karmanot says:

    Bingo! Revolution in the classical sense is no longer an option in these times. Does anyone doubt that a drone wouldn’t be a solution to troublesome citizens? They are already employed across the country for ‘civilian’ reasons. Hell, I was just getting use to tinfoil hats and black helicopters and now Reagan’s death star is back on the table.

  188. karmanot says:

    How is it that Billy Bubba Bob is allowed to carry guns at Demo events, but arrested at Repub events.

  189. karmanot says:

    The irony is that the holier than thou gun patriotic NRA is absolutely undermining the stability of law and fomenting anarchy, which I define as traitorous.

  190. karmanot says:

    Mother’s with guns, how Republican of them. However, if that little bastard’s mother had a Glock, she might have nailed him first.

  191. Naja pallida says:

    The thought doesn’t even pan out. Gun violence, from legal and illegal guns, as well as gun accident rates in countries with strict gun control laws are a teeny tiny fraction of what they are in the US. Does she think that is purely by accident? That it is just some big magical coincidence that gun crime and gun accident rates plummet when you make it harder to get guns, and put stronger controls on what guns one can have, and how they are to be handled? The laws do work, when they’re allowed to be implemented in an effective way, and allowed to be enforced free of political corruption and lobbyist collusion.

  192. KingCranky says:

    Your friend’s belief suggests that, since people will always break laws, we shouldn’t have laws to start with, in which case, we might as well abolish all laws and let all prisoners free, including violent felons like murderers, rapists and pederasts.

    Ask your friend if she favors getting rid of laws aimed at stopping child predators-because molesters are breaking the laws anyway-then remind her that there’s nothing preventing her from purchasing a firearm if she’s got a clean record, she’s certainly not being legally prevented from protecting her child in her home.

  193. KingCranky says:

    The NRA stayed completely silent when the most anti-Constitutional law in memory was passed, the deliberately misnamed “Patriot” Act, ironic-and hypocritical-considering how much whining and gnashing of teeth would ensue from the NRA’s leadership if the Obama Administration wanted to access the group’s membership lists and financial information without a warrant.

    Your reply is one of the best put together in terms of how our freedoms are not being protected by those most fervent about their gun lust.

  194. benb says:

    This additional tragedy brought to you by enough of our elected officials who are more concerned about REELECTION than protecting our kids.

  195. FunMe says:

    LOL Funny how you those types we never hear about come in here with such confusing statements. Oy vey.

  196. FunMe says:

    Scalia? The hateful homophobic little bitch? Yeah I said it. The Supreme Court flunkiee with the GAY son, as Americablog pointed out this week, who is hiding under the “priest” dress and running “change the gay” workshops? Scalia is SCUM and a fascist pig, in more ways than one, who needs to be removed from the Supreme Court.

  197. FunMe says:

    Wow, back in 1971! Who wrote that movie? The writer(s) pointed out so very well the issue about gun control.

  198. FunMe says:

    I concur. So very well said!

    And sadly we are living in an OLIGARCHY. We need to start working on getting our DEMOCRACY back and stopping this bs that has been occurring in our USA.

  199. FunMe says:

    I got my first response from a friend who is a young mother of a little girl and is pregnant. I said I was against having guns and killing. I also said I was FOR gun control and doing more than just prayers and crying. She writes: “I wish it was the answer but it’s not hun…it’s not the world we live in. I agree I’m a mother and I cried when I heard about this it’s horrible but bad ppl will always get things illegally and it leaves ppl like me u able to protect my child in my home if this should happen”

    Some mothers with children don’t even get it. No wonder we have these messes repeating themselves. Ugh!

    I don’t even have children and I want something done NOW.

  200. Manmustdie says:

    My family is arguing about the politics of this situation at this very moment, and it makes me sick. Not one mention of the children. Just the politics. Honestly, I hope December 21’st really does bring about the destruction of the human race. We are worthless and violent species, and deserve nothing more than death.

  201. karmanot says:

    Idiot troll

  202. karmanot says:


  203. FunMe says:

    I’m so sad, but actually angrier for what this article outlines so well. How many more of these tragedies should we endure before something is finally done. I’m so sick of this, especially since now it is affecting the little ones, the children. They are so innocent and do not deserve this.

    It’s time to do something NOW and stop the freaking insanity!!!!

    I posted this article to my FB.

  204. whispers2u says:

    Good luck with that. When all else fails, bail aye. Or should I say oui

  205. Kelvin Mace says:

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect us from a police state?

    This has been a major argument for the NRA crowd for years.

    The 2nd Amendment was placed in the Constitution to protect us from tyranny, to prevent the government from becoming a police state. Without guns, how would we stop the government from abusing its power?

    Really? That’s is the argument?

    Well, riddle me this: When is the most heavily armed populace in the Western World going to realize that we ARE a police state, the government has abused its powers, REPEATEDLY, and they did it while handing out guns like candy?

    I have been told that the 2nd Amendment is the key Amendment that protects all of our other rights.


    It hasn’t stopped repeatedly violations of the 1st Amendment.

    People have been jailed for their religion. Reporters have been jailed upholding our rights to a free press. People have been routinely arrested and violently assaulted for assembling peaceably to petition government for redress of grievances. People who have disagreed with the government and spoken out against everything from government fraud to war crimes have been abused and harassed by the government. Policemen have frequently murdered unarmed civilians for being the wrong color without repercussion.

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 4th?

    Our persons, papers, emails, phone calls, medical records, financial records and much more are routinely examined by the government without a warrant. Police seize money and property without warrant or compensation simply by declaring that the money or property were earned/acquired/used in the illicit drug trade.

    Boarding an airplane frequently involves government conduct that in any other context is prosecutable sexual assault.

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 5th?

    People have been compelled under torture to incriminate themselves. People are now routinely deprived of life without meaningful due process. You can also be kidnapped from your home country and taken to a secret prison and tortured at the whim of the CIA or the Military.

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 6th?

    People are now routinely denied speedy trials by a jury of their peers, are denied the right to confront their accusers, or see the evidence against them. Hell, you can be banned from ever flying again by having your name placed on a “no fly” list which cannot be appealed.

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 7th?

    Anybody heard about any jury trials at Guantanamo? (and please do not insult my intelligence by making the same baseless legalistic arguments about “enemy combatants” and “military tribunals”. Terrorism is a criminal act and should be tried in a criminal court).

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 8th?

    People are certainly suffering cruel and unusual punishments including physical and mental torture. We have imprisoned and abused children and no one has been held to account.

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 9th?

    I would say quite a few of our “other” rights have been “denied” and/or “disparaged”. We are second class citizens in our own land, beholden to the oligarchy that poisons our air and water, destroys our planet, and conspires to abridge what few rights we might have left for their personal enrichment. Our prisons have become profit centers one group of corporations, providing slave labor for other corporations.

    When will the 2nd Amendment protect the 10th?

    The oligarchs have certainly conspired to abridge the rights of individual states. Three men (the Koch brothers and DeVos) pretty much bought the state of Michigan this week.

    So, other than protecting itself and keeping platoons of soldiers out of my living room, the 2nd Amendment has done precisely jack squat to protect our liberty.

    And no, I am NOT calling for violence against the government. I am simply pointing out that the we have the curious distinction of being the world’s first police state with citizens more heavily armed than the police.

  206. karmanot says:

    You would make a good dictator.

  207. Naja pallida says:

    You won’t get any argument from me. My point was simply that a dictator, with control of an army, tanks, and the GDP of a nation at his disposal, doesn’t have to give a shit if there are citizens with guns. If you pose a threat to him in any way, you’re going to die. Even if you manage to take a half-dozen of his thugs with you. Mounting any kind of a revolt against a despotic government takes a lot more than a stockpile of guns and ammo.

  208. karmanot says:

    It should hurt guns owners who have automatic weapons.

  209. karmanot says:

    I would declare the NRA as a security threat to the well being of the American people.

  210. karmanot says:

    Florida must be just rejoicing about now with its million concealed hand guns and the deaths of two black teenagers under its Constitutional gun belt.

  211. NWProf says:

    Back in 1971 a movie called Billy Jack was released. It could be released today and be just as relevant. There were many insightful quotes in this movie but none more so than the following between Billy, an American Indian ex-Green Beret hapkido expert who saves wild horses from being slaughtered for dog food and helps protect a desert “freedom school” for runaways and Jean, the owner of the school.

    Jean: You just can’t keep making your own laws. There’s got to be one set of laws fair for everyone, including you.

    Billy Jack: That’s fine. When that set of laws is applied to everyone, then I’ll turn the other cheek too.

    Jean: There’s got to be a better way to change those people.

    Billy Jack: CHANGE those people? You worked with King, didn’t you?

    Jean: Yes!

    Billy Jack: Where is he?

    Jean: Dead.

    Billy Jack: And where’s Bob and Jack Kennedy?

    Jean: Dead.

    Billy Jack: Not “dead”, their brains blown out! Because YOUR people wouldn’t even put the same controls on their guns as they do on their dogs, their bicycles, their cats, and their automobiles.

    The above dialogue sums up the gun debate that has raged from the 1960s until today.

  212. Awesome. Another argument over gun control instead of our nation’s lack of a mental health system worth anything. I’m sure you’ll accomplish something this time.

    Maybe if you fight really, really hard you’ll even win before AK-47’s can be downloaded from the Pirate Bay…

  213. MyrddinWilt says:

    No, the real problem is that Billy Bob is far more likely to be out there with his guns and his jack boots giving the sieg-Heil salutes than supporting actual freedom.

    The fact that a bunch of right wing thugs are heavily armed does not make anyone more free or protect democracy. Quite the reverse.

    Faux News is still having a freak out over a black man who was watching a polling station while carrying a nightstick that happened over four years ago now. Meanwhile Sarah Palin’s supporters were marching carrying guns.

    Timothy McVeigh was the archetypal NRA supporter (yes, I had arguments with him about his gun nut views). He went on to murder almost 200 people in the name of ‘freedom’. Many of them were children.

    And if Billy Bob isn’t a neo-NAZI then the chances that he is high on meth are rather greater than the chance that he will come out to stop the torture in Gitmo or push to close Bush’s gulags or even complain about any of that stuff.

    Guns are for people whose dicks are too small.

  214. Brian says:

    The 2nd amendment was a mistake in the first place, even when muskets were the primary guns available. Now we have automatic weapons of astounding lethality. We got rid of slavery, another mistake of the founding fathers. We can get rid of guns, too. It will take time, but it’s time to step up and say nothing short of abolishing the 2nd amendment will do.

  215. Dano2 says: