Coulter: “If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium”

“If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium” – Ann Coulter.

Media Matters spotted Ann Coulter expressing this particular nugget of the pseudo-scientific racism for which Coulter is known. But they didn’t provide a link to figures to disprove it. So I thought I would track them down and the result is rather surprising.

In a nutshell: Coulter is right, about Belgium — and only Belgium — but wrong about the rest of western Europe, which has a lot lower murder rate than even our “white” murder rate (see figures below).  So if Ann Coulter wants to play the race-baiting game, perhaps she can explain to us why white Americans are so much more murderous than western Europeans, who are also mostly white.  Hint: It’s their guns.

The only DoJ study on homicide by race that I can find is from 2005. Figures for the homicide rate in Belgium (and the rest of the world) are rather easier to come by. Guess what, when you do the math, the figures add up.

belgium fries food

Belgium frites via Shutterstock

Or to be precise, the figures add up if you happen to choose the murder rate in Belgium in 2002 when there were 318 murders there, a big jump on the 215 in 2000 and 228 in 2003. Belgium is a small country and so an extra hundred or so murders a year adds a whole percentage point to the murder rate. The average murder rate in Belgium was 2.2 per 100,000 between 2000 and 2010 and 3.1 in 2002. The US murder rate over the same period was 5.5, more than twice the rate in Belgium.

There is a strong race element in US homicides, which the DoJ report shows. Between 2000 and 2005 the average number of homicides per year committed by whites and blacks was 8,318 and 9,513, respectively. African-Americans were also much more likely to be the victim of a homicide.

Where Ann Coulter sees only race, I see race, poverty and the drug trade as potential explanations for this difference.

There is quite definitely a ‘demographic’ element to violent crime, but that isn’t enough to explain the difference between the US murder rate and the rate in Belgium (or Europe in general). The ‘whites only’ murder rate in the US is still 2.6 per 100,000, which is why Ann Coulter had to find a small country like Belgium to give the freakishly high figure she needed.

Had Ann Coulter looked at other (western) European countries, besides Belgium – the countries most like the US – she would have found a much lower overall murder rate per 100,000.  For example (and these are rough back-of-the-envelope averages over the same time period):

US ‘whites only’ murder rate: 2.6
Denamark 1.0
Ireland 1.2
Norway 0.8
Sweden 0.9
Greece 1.4
Italy 1.4
Spain 1.2
Austria 0.8
France 1.7
Germany 1.2
Switzerland 1.0

Now you know why Ann Coulter picked Belgium.  Even the US’ ‘whites only’ murder rate is two to three times the murder rate in western Europe.  So not only does Coulter’s weird comparison leave us with a big ‘so what?’, but her comparison on its face is wrong because she — and here’s a surprise — skewed the facts to her favor.

There is another better explanation for the difference between the overall murder rate in the US and Belgium: Guns.

67% of murders in the US (2003-2010) were committed using a firearm. That gives a non-firearms murder rate of 1.8 per 100,000, which is only slightly higher than the rate in the UK (1.5), which has strong gun control laws and a negligible firearm murder rate (0.1). (Belgium only reported figures for firearms murders in one year, which means it is most likely an outlier).

Looking through the UN statistics, countries with a high percentage of murders committed by firearms tend to have a low number of murders overall, and to be are awash in arms, like former members of the Yugoslav federation that underwent a number of recent wars.

Possibly the most remarkable figures in the table are those for the Solomon Islands. Despite the recent civil war, there were no homicides by firearm for the years figures are available (2004-2009). The Solomon Islands has my kind of gun control: Guns are banned absolutely and completely, with the sole exception of single shot rifles.

Ann Coulter’s claim is merely the last gasp of the gun-nut strategy of talking about anything other than guns. They have tried video games, lack of prayer-in-school, and gun free zones in schools. Having seen those fail, they wheel out Ann Coulter to beat the race drum, as only she can.

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192 Responses to “Coulter: “If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium””

  1. Snoop8765 says:

    Bingo, but myrddin is too dishonest to mention that all important fact.

  2. Snoop8765 says:

    No, the result is not “rather surprising” … It is exactly as expected. Unless you happen to be a stupid liberal

  3. Alan says:

    1998 was part of a continuing decline through the 90’s until 2000 & then the rate fluctuated through the 2000’s by a 1 or 2 tenths until dropping 4 tenths in 09
    BTW Taiwans intentional homicide rate is larger than most European countries & was not to far below the US’ at the start of the millennium, without any guns. Your argument to simply firearms rates alone is specious.

  4. Alan says:

    The UK murder rate for 2000-2009 (intentional homicide) is given as


    ~ 20-35x your figure for 2011

  5. Alan says:

    Unfortunately, you’re comparing apples & oranges wrt Belgium vs US white murder rate.
    US crime statistics generally include most Hispanics as whites & Hispanic populations seem to have higher murder rates than non Hispanic whites (take New Mexico for instance that is roughly 1/2 Hispanic and is usually among the highest US murder rates, or look at the murder rate for Mexico or even worse, Puerto Rico) .
    Further how can you say those countries are most like the US? Louisiana, New Mexico, Alabama or Florida are like Sweden? Denmark? Norway? Ireland? Probably most like New Hampshire, Minnesota, Maine or Vermont. Why don’t you compare their murder rates to the small European nations you mention?.
    I’m sure you know there are lots of guns (capable of full auto fire ie machine guns) in Swiss hands, more than half the number of US per capita firearm ownership but their murder rate is extremely low, likewise some of those countries you mention own guns at a rate ~1/3 of the US but their murder rates are still lower than 1/3 meanwhile an industrial country like Taiwan can have a murder rate several times those countries & have virtually no private firearm ownership. It simply shows it’s not guns but culture.

  6. schoolmarm says:

    What is it? Internalized racism?

  7. Jake321 says:

    The latest UNODC official stats for 2012 are 3.5 for Europe so stop your misinformation. If you wanted to get really technical, you could do a country by country comparison and you’d find that the weighted average of murder rates here and in Europe are statistically the same. Our murder problem tends to be disproportionately consentrated in one or two demographics, particularly that of young Black men.

  8. David Platts says:

    Statistics provides no causation. Never has and never will. It is correlation. Physics works completely by correlation. Causation of the Universe is unavailable from a scientific point of view. We fly in planes because we understand it has undergone significant testing done looking for correlations. If you ask the scientists involved what is the causation of Gravity, they’ll tell you they don’t know. They understand the math from testing just not the causation. They do know correlation that has brought us the electronic age, medical equipment such as the Positron Emission Tomography. This instrument relies on antimatter. Ask a Physicists where antimatter originated? He’ll tell you he doesn’t know. He does understand statistics. My Physics prof many years ago was excited to state no causation exists in Physics. That is why statistics is so important. Then guys like you come along as if the mathematical methods in Statistics have no value. You seem to have no education whatsoever.

    Go back to the Great Depression for crime numbers. I haven’t found them. I’ve looked. I have found presumptions of the crime numbers from guys like you. You have no accurate numbers. You know, I am damn tired of dealing with, and I quote, sophomoric, dumb and uneducated (as you more than insinuated) people like you are out there making ignorant arguments.

    Stating wealth has no affect on crime is blind. You want the quantifying factor to only be race? And I quote, WTF? I don’t have time for you or libertystarr below. Libertystarr wants me to go the race card only too or I am off target (not tangent, in Trig terms). Otherwise, I am off topic. You people are absolutely nuts and I am done with you.

  9. David Platts says:

    3.8? There is not one piece of data that purports 3.8. Look at The rate does not reach close to 2.8 unless you put in Russia and round up. Russia murder rate is 15.1 per 100,000. Homicide is just under 1.4 per 100,000 in Europe if we use Moldova, Ukraine and Belarus which is included on some European maps. Most are left off and Russia has a LONG way to go to bring them back to the European standard.

    Misinformation is provided one more time.

  10. libertystarr says:

    Jigaboos are nothing but a destructive force.

  11. libertystarr says:

    Those with an agenda will answer your posts with tangental information. Your post was great, David’s was off-topic.

  12. libertystarr says:

    You obviously didn’t even read the original post.

  13. libertystarr says:

    Yup. More coon = more murder. We would have a rather low murder rate if we were to exclude Jigaboo strongholds like Detroit, Chicago, DC, and New Orleans.

  14. libertystarr says:

    What’s the jigaboo murder rate in the USA?

  15. libertystarr says:

    Typical leftifukk who thinks he’s a moderate. Hubert Humphrey was a liberal, but compared to today’s clowns he’s a reactionary.

  16. libertystarr says:

    I think you lost your tinfoil hat, whackjob.

  17. libertystarr says:

    Jigaboos are naturally more violent.

  18. Steve says:

    Actually, if you look up the FBI’s database of offenders, and cross that with the census of the same year (2010) the “Whites Only” murder rate per capita is 2.1.

    Now, if you look at the authors excuses for the murder rate among black americans you find more room to skew your numbers. Lets look at poverty. These numbers are from a census in 2007.

    5.4% of all white people live in poverty.
    9.6% of all black people live in poverty.

    Well, there it is! Cut and dry… or is it? It does say ALL WHITE AND BLACK PEOPLE. Lets extrapolate that more.

    That means theres 12,071,876 white people living in poverty.
    And yet theres only 3,737,214 black people living in poverty. Whoops, that didn’t really work out.

    Ok, so now what? Well, lets look at drugs. This information is from a survey done by the US Department of Health and Human Services. Ill just sum this one up, 10.7% of black people said they used drugs, compared to 9.1% of white people. I don’t have to hammer out the percentages again for you, do I?

    Keep making excuses so that the low information people and people who don’t want to do the leg work themselves can think they understand a subject. The facts are there, black and white, undeniable. More white people on drugs, more white people living in poverty, but still MUCH less white murder offenders. I know what a huge problem with this country is, do you…..yet?

  19. Dante Laboy says:

    Your arguments are non starters….

    crime statistics werent of much use nationally, as they are used now..there was far less urban density, and this was before the mass media influence of violence and crime

    people dont talk about gun control as being an exclusive remedy of firearm murders. Many of the euro countries analyzed have far greater social support mechanisms.

    There are many others….

  20. profnickd says:

    The single most important variable in determining the homicide rate of a given geographic area is the proportion of the population that is black — the black homicide rate is 7 times that of whites.

    Which is why rich progressives like Matt Damon send their kids to all-white elite private schools.

  21. Jake321 says:

    The criminal humicide rate in ALL of Europe is about 3.8 per 100,000 while that for Americans of European ancestry is about 2.8. The US folk have about have 5 times the guns per person as folk in Europe. Our folk use guns. Europeans use knives, fists, etc. and do a better job of killing than our folk.

  22. Josh S says:

    5.5? You’re either combining the Hispanic and non-Hispanic white combinations, or you’re confusing the male-only homicide rate with the general population homicide rate, because the general white, non-Hispanic homicide rate in 2007 was 2.7, putting the USA between Liechtenstein and Luxembourg.

  23. ars2nd says:

    So if 2 people shot and killed each other in a gang war, neither would be counted since neither was convicted?

  24. Kenneth Myers says:

    That is no different from what is happening in the US. USA is a very corrupt country and the figures and “facts” are not to be trusted. I give you 9/11 as a case in point. Let’s start with the “pilots”- skilled or unskilled, you cannot fly a commercial jet liner like a military jet fighter. For one, a commercial airliner cannot achieve airspeeds of 500 knots per hour at sea level. At that speed, the commercial airliner would be uncontrollable and more than likely shake apart. Number 2, had a real jetliner hit the twin towers, it would not have “disappear” inside the building like some kind of special effects from a hollywood movie. A majority of the wreckage would have been on the outside of the building as with the jet fuel. There would have been more deaths on the streets than inside the twin towers.Thirdly, jet fuel which is kerosene with additives, will not burn hot enough to melt steel and cause the buildings to free fall like a controlled demolition. Remember this little nugget-no open air fire can get hot enough to melt steel. In this case, seeing is NOT believing.
    I am pointing out some key facts that was overlooked during the 9/11 “investigation” based on science and common sense. I’m pretty sure it was an emotional event that took place during that time. To conduct a proper investigation, facts and not pure emotions should prevail. The facts do not support the story the 9/11 commission is telling the U.S. people.,, and the world.
    Back to your point, people like you try to manipulate other people with facts and stats to support your or the U.S. government’s hidden agenda. What people don’t know about the U.S. criminal justice system is that guilt or innocense is determined by the jury instruction. Let me explain myself, a lot of the testimony and even some evidence is not considered to reach a verdict. Once again, seeing is NOT believing.

  25. BooBoo65 says:

    The author nitpicks at the statistics when the point Ann was making is still sound. Homicide rates have have way more to do with heredity than guns. Also the US’s whites contain more genetic mixing of Latinos which is another group with higher violence statistics.

    There is more of a correlation between race and homicides than gun availability and homicides. There are too many examples where there are more guns present and less homicides and less guns present and more homicides, but there isn’t this problem with homicide and race. The correlation holds.

  26. DBN says:

    Ahhh, the guns! I don’t own a gun, but I find this argument ridiculous! I heard a strange rumor that a group of humans called “Canadians” also own plenty of guns. Someone should tell them it’s time to step up their murder rates. They’re slacking! Liberals and conservatives love to find statistics that support their stupid opinions. The more these two groups concentrate on crapping on each other, the further we fall as a nation.

  27. Patrick T. Hendrick says:

    Look up the FBI crime data. They keep it.

  28. jodiojeda says:

    I would like to see conversations, stats, math, facts, etc., regarding how many lives have been saved by guns. a topic that anti-gun activists will NEVER speak publicly about because those facts hurt their case. Also, out of the murders committed each year, how many of those are committed by gang members with illegal guns? Of the number of black people murdered by guns each year, how many were black on black murders committed with illegal guns? The 4 largest cities who have the strictest gun laws are responsible for most murders with guns. Remove those 4 cities and then do the stats & all of a sudden America has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.

  29. jodiojeda says:

    Look at the data of countries who banned guns. Murder rate did not decrease. if anything, those countries had a slightly higher murder rate. point: Guns don’t kill…people do. so, you can take guns away but if someone desires to kill another, they will find a way to do it. We have to look deeper. Lack of moral teachings. broken homes. Violent movies & games. Idolizing gangs, drugs, vigilantes. Teaching that there are no boundaries. Banning faith in God & biblical values. American leaders who boldly incite violence & anger. Just to name a fraction of the real issues that we see tied to our murder rate

  30. Che Joubert says:

    There aren’t really any ‘leftists’ in America are there? Or do you mean the middle of the road people who favor democracy over the middle of the road people who favor fascism?

  31. Frank says:

    Sweden and Switzerland have a higher per capita gun ownership than the US

  32. iamhungry says:

    Not to the same degree.

  33. iamhungry says:

    The point of her statement was to show that, in her mind, America doesn’t have a gun problem but rather it has a black problem.

  34. iamhungry says:

    Americans would never submit to the same gun restrictions they have in Switzerland. You won’t even agree to universal background checks.

  35. iamhungry says:

    If they were convicted of murder then it is listed.

  36. iamhungry says:

    That sounds good but do you have any specifics? e.g. manslaughter rate comparisons. Considering manslaughter is also a crime in the US I’m not sure the difference will be made up just by any definition difference.

  37. alistz says:

    As much as you try to dazzle people with statistical bs, at the end of the day you continue to jump to unsupported conclusions, because you are ultimately engaging in sophistry.

    for example, here you are:

    “…However, does income and wealth inequities play a part in this data?
    Here’s what I’m thinking. Instead of looking at race, how about we look
    at the income levels of the murderers broken down by race. Do poor
    white people have similar high rates of murder as poor black and poor
    hispanic people. We can’t view that data? We don’t have that

    conceding that there is no data based on income.

    Yet, in responding to me, you make this assertion: This discussion is on firearm economics. Poverty plays a part in murder.


    So, again. You’ve asserted that eliminating state regulations in favor of Federal regulations will reduce the gun murder rate. Why? Because you can cite other countries that have National firearms regulations that have lower gun rates. You actually can not logically draw causation from that simplistic fact.

    And if, as you claim that poverty and inequality are underlying murder rates, than how does Federalization of Gun laws change that.

    Do you see a black CEO more murderous than a white CEO?

    This is really another completely sophomoric line of argumentation. There are a large number of behavioral differences that I would expect to find between an inner city black ghetto teenager and a CEO. None of those would lead me to deny the reality of a black urban subculture that has statistically significant behavioral differences.

    Further, you are trying to ignore that this country had less violent crime and murder during the great depression, when 75% of the country lived in poverty, unless I go dig up referenced statistics?

    Here is an idea…the above is a widely held supposition, and it so directly refutes your entire argument, and you are, afterall, one truth and knowledge seeking mofo….why don’t you go look it up yourself to make sure you aren’t as dumb as you appear to be to thinking people.

  38. DrMaxHathaway says:

    I doubt this article is true as to the facts. Here’s why.
    Its all about how Murder is legally defined.
    In many EU countries and in the UK, many criminals involved in what we in the USA call “murder” are not actually charged with “murder” and are not therefore convicted of “murder”. Many are charged with lesser offenses such as manslaughter. The result is that the legal desination of “murder” is changed.

  39. Kyle Becker says:

    Lefties cannot tolerate facts on their face. They always have to attack the source of the facts.

  40. David Platts says:

    Your analysis is listed above and answers the issues you felt were not answered. The 20,000 state, county and city regulations ought to be replaced by strong national regulations. These regulations could enumerate less than 2 dozen. I thought I would add that to my blog.

  41. David Platts says:

    1998 to present, the murder rate dropped from 5.19 per 100,000 to 5.1. A .012 drop per 100,000 per year. That is not a rapid drop. Show me your data from 1939. I can’t locate accurate data. I suspect you didn’t either. Propaganda is not data. In 1998, our firearm murder rate was 3.37 per 100,000 and has risen to 3.6 per 100,000. This is a 14 year breakdown of murder in our nation.

    What an absurd statement you have made. First, comparative analysis using the U.S. against itself is similar to weighing a child in school against no other students. The developed world (first world) nations existing on both the IMF/CIA list with population of 100 thousand or greater equate 27 nations. Exempt the U.S., a number outlier in murder, and Taiwan, the only nation that bans firearms, and you arrive at 25 nations with 687 million in population. When the U.S. rate was 3.59 per 100,000 for 308.5 million people, these 25 nations were .183 per 100,000. The result was 1,256 murders for 687 million people versus 11,078 murders for 308.5 million people.

    Developed nations have an almost universal regulations to firearms. All regulations are national. The following characteristics exist: owner licensing, safety training/testing for the license, background checks, registration, safe/lock requirements cross referenced with registration/licenses to ensure compliance. Our accidental firearm murder rate is .3 per 100,000. Most are children. These lawful abiding citizens are failing to obey our 1998 child safety firearm law requiring locks/safes.

    The answer is simple. The problem is with ignorant people who refuse to rely upon education and fight it tooth and nail. Americans who side with Coulter are complicit in terrible actions happening in our Nation.

    By the way, in analyzing poverty, do so on a defined period: decade by decade or some other limited defined period. This provides useful statistics versus propaganda masquerading as fact. I don’t want to discuss moral hazard here and what occurred in 1929 and 2008. Obama had nothing to do with this failure. Has he made mistakes? YES! Did Reagan make mistakes. YES! Did both Bush Presidents make mistakes? YES! These guys listened to Milton Friedman. Welcome to a fiscal recession/depression. Don’t try to school me on banking. I was deep involved in that industry for 28 years. For the good of the economy, oversight in financial products ought to have been in place and WORKED.

    This discussion is on firearm economics. Poverty plays a part in murder. Skin color dissolves when lack of wealth occurs. Murder will rise. When wealth/income increases murder drops. My point is this, do you expect a black professor murdering a person more than a white professor? Do you see a black CEO more murderous than a white CEO? Do you see a poor black person more murderous than a poor white person? Here is where Coulter issues a profound “yes”. She has no data to support that belief. However, racism does support that belief. The definition of racism and ignorance on Ann Coulter lies here.

  42. Greg Maxson says:

    King Tuts DNA is not European and King Tut wasn’t important and was more towards the mid to later part of Old Egypt. King Tut was most likely mixed and he line up with Tropical Africa.

    2. All REAL Africans share P2 marker and North Africans existed before Europeans. Explain the P2 marker.

    3. Africa entered the Iron age before Europe and also made Steel before Europe so take that sticks and stones nonsense somewhere else that’s not the 21 century.

    4.You mean like the Artist of the Renaissance or how about Picasso? How about American slaves, where they just lying around on beach chairs while laying the ground down for Western music? You show your true bias and ignorance.

  43. Dave says:

    He also fails to note that while blacks are at a higher risk of being murdered, blacks are responsible for 90% of black murders. He evidently isn’t very versed in economics either more specifically the substitution effect. That is if something is too expensive, people will buy and use a similar item in its stead. Like buying tuna instead of tilapia if tuna costs too much that week. Since opportunity costs are higher to get a firearm in Europe, people are more likely to kill each other other items… like fists, knives, feet, bludgeons, etc. So blaming the difference in the murder rate on guns is inaccurate and also “pseudo-scientific.”

    Really what impacts people’s behavior is the number of urban centers in a country. When adjusted for the number of urban centers in each country most developed nations look very similar in their murder rates.

    See (unless you’d rather just buy into the hype):

    Brian Christens & Paul W. Speer

  44. downthemiddle says:

    All the tools and signs of high intelligence that you listed, came from the Northern or Mediterranean part of Africa.. King Tuts DNA is European, and most people in Northern Africa have obvious European Descent.. Algeria, Egypt, Libya etc. None of these people are Sub-Saharan African. Sub-Saharan Africans are the Inuits, Native Americans, Aboriginals, of Africa.. They had sticks and stones before Asians or Europeans descended on them. These civilizations were centuries behind on the evolutionary latter..

    It is easier to create art, music, etc. when you are not out there busting your butt, 40+ hours a week in a real job.. A starving artist is starving, because they are not working a real job, but spending all their time concentrating on their art, instead of working 40 or more hours a week at a job. See how that works?

  45. alistz says:

    It’s remarkable to read someone argue about statistical analysis being the answer to proving a point, to then finish with a completely unsupported conclusion.

    While we argue over race, income and education, we could apply a fix to
    murder by affixing national regulations to firearms and do away with
    the 20,000 or so regulations in states, counties or cities.

    In other words…. you haven’t shown me statistics to prove your point, hence my factless position is the answer.

    what a libtard.

  46. alistz says:

    However, does income and wealth inequities play a part in this data?

    No, because if they did, the story of the last hundred years would have been about the rapid decline in murder rates as the US left the great depression in 1939 where 75% of the population was in poverty until the present day, where pre-Obamaeconomics about 13% of the population was in poverty.

  47. alistz says:

    I’m not arguing for gun control. I was using absurdity to show how vacuous the reasoning for it is.

  48. purplewings says:

    Criminals don’t buy guns and gun control would have no affect on them. The only ones gun control will affect is decent citizens trying to stay alive when their home is invaded. Without a weapon, they have no chance.

  49. purplewings says:

    I applaud you! You’re right that denying truth solves nothing but it does give excuses to those who do whatever they want.

    I pray daily for decent black people who live in inner cities due to lack of funds and must fear for their children’s lives every single day. Black on black crime is the worst! It’s constant and unpredictable.

    Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving Blacks and Whites, Blacks commit 85 percent and Whites commit 15 percent.

    Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are Black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When Whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are Black.

    Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a White than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

    I agree that it is not about poverty, but about uncontrolled rage and the leaders who hold them back in life by teaching them to blame others instead of making changes. You have proven that to be true. May God Bless you and yours!

  50. Kizar_Sozay says:

    The author if this article is counting on readers who are not ‘nuanced’ enough to recognize the difference between a homicide and a murder. Many homicides are ruled justifiable. Actually, I recall a recent case in Florida where a homicide was ruled justifiable as self-defense. The concept of self-defense to protect your person from bodily injury is so important that virtually every state has distinguished between murder and self-defense. Thirty-seven states even have Stand Your Ground laws to allow for self-defense when threatened. Police shootings are homicides but, in most cases, are not murder. There was one near me recently where a fleeing suspect was firing out of a car at the pursuing police. The passenger doing the shooting was shot and killed by the police. Is this a murder?

    Coulter spoke of murder rates but the author chose to ignore that germane point so the emphasis could be put on gun possession instead of actually addressing the issue at hand. That is ‘who is killing who’. Coulter was talking about the white murder rate. The rejoinder article never addressed the racial component of who is killing who. The black murder rate varies year to year but typically runs seven to nine times that of whites. Does gun ownership among blacks run seven to nine times that of whites.

    In Great Britain, prior to 1993, a person could walk into a store, even Harrod’s, and purchase a gun over the counter. Prior to 1993, comparing the murder rate in GB, it has stayed the same before and after the gun ban. The issue is not the gun but the culture. Perhaps I should say cultures?

  51. Wrighteous Wrath says:

    How many of the “White Murders” were whites who killed others in self defense? I just want to make sure that the term “murder” has not been expanded to fill the bill.

  52. David Platts says:

    The Swiss does not have fewer restrictions. The Swiss has a National right to own firearms as does the U.S. However, there regulations are as follows: Owner licenses renewed every five years with a prior training course requirement, background checks (mental, criminal, domestic violence), domestic abuse revokes or denies owner license, a national registration of all firearms, safe/lock requirements and no private transfers are allowed. Only licensed dealers may transfer firearms. Since 2007, the arms held at home by the militia could not be accompanied my munitions. Once at post, the munitions are released for military purposes only.

    Hey, good rules. Would you like all of these instituted at the national level in the U.S.?

    The U.K. rate is .06 per 100,000 in 2011. The U.S. is at 3.6.The U.K. does not have a ban. They do have strenuous rules which reduces the amount of firearms to .15 per 100,000. The U.S. has about 2.45 per household. The U.S. has had 161,234 firearm murders in the last fourteen years. The U.K. fixed their problem. If your claim of 35,000 were correct (which it is not), then the U.K. has been very successful in the last 14 year with 542 firearm murders.

    The adage: “what have you done for me lately” seems apply here. Granted the U.S. has five times the population. But even if we account for the population difference the U.S. had almost 159,000 more murders comparatively to the U.K. in the same period of time.

    Further, not only does Ann cherry pick but she is racist.

  53. David Platts says:

    I see, it is education or they are criminals. Interesting categories for analysis. It is this inability to pick good operational properties that creates failed conclusions such as Ann Coulter. I never mentioned inequalities as that is a generalized term. You choose to use inequalities. The inequality you termed in education as it is a good operational term. Our nation certainly is in the midst of an education crises compared to the developed world. Even many developing nations do better than the U.S. in this category.

    I simply dislike the desire to use concepts without analysis. It is easy to remain prejudiced. Blame is easier then repair, 2opinion8ed.

  54. LaughingTarget says:

    Guns aren’t a problem. You posted Switzerland, a country that mandates all able bodied males between 18 and 35 posess a firearm with no restrictions to ownership. The Swiss in fact have FEWER restrictions than Americans do in purchasing firearms. It takes a background check to purchase a rifle in the US, but are classified as “free arms” in Switzerland and have no such restrictions. 2010 homicides came in at 0.7 from all tools used. While semi-automatic weapons require a permit, the permit is effectively permanent and is handed out freely to anyone without a criminal conviction, essentially the same thing in the US but without the hassle of having to go through the process with each weapon purchase. This is a strong indication that firearms have little to do with the homicide equation and more to do with other factors, such as cultural, which are not simply altered by passing laws.
    Additionally, firearm ownership rates and restrictions between individual US states does not support the claim that firearms are a problem. There is an underlying culture problem, as evidenced by low homicide and high firearm ownership rates in places like Vermont and high homicide and low (legal) firearm ownership rates in places like Illinois.
    Also, you failed to mention that the UK’s gun homicide rate doubled after they banned guns and is only just now back to the exact same rate as it was prior to the blanket ban. It’s estimated that, if you could attribute the ban to the increase in violence, that some 35,000 UK citizens died from guns because of their gun ban.
    Don’t accuse Ann of cherry-picking data then do the same thing yourself.

  55. 2opinion8td says:

    minorities blamed for any and all? Gawd are you an ignorant racist sheet.

  56. 2opinion8td says:

    inequalities? You mean cultures right? This is a free country – some choose education and some chose crime. But all of them make a choice and no one is forced into this so called “inequality” you’d like to blame.

  57. Greg Maxson says:

    This is such B.S. I can write pages breaking this down but I will try to keep it short.

    1. All tech in Europe either came from outside Europe or was built upon a non European idea.

    2. To further highlight point 1, European civilization started not in the North but parts closer to Asia and Africa.

    3. Europeans didn’t invent writing, didn’t create the alphabets, didn’t domesticate beast such as horse, cows, goats, etc. All of those ideas were imported from Asia.

    4. Some African societies did have written language. Also the English language has exploded only recently and has tons of imported words. Hell, even the word Banana is of African origin yet I’m sure you view it as english.

    5. Africa has the toughest Animals on the planet. The African Elephant is meaner than the Asian, Zebras are meaner than Horses, Wild dogs are scrappier than wolves, Bears went extinct in Africa, Ants kill people and even Elephants, Hippos punk crocodiles, etc etc. Even with all that, Africans had cattle and had to teach Europeans how to raise cattle in Tropical Africa after European beast died in Africa and the men usually followed.

    Europeans been in Africa how long now yet been unable to domesticate any native African animal.

    6. Youtube the Head of Ife King. Africa history is so deep and unknown to the world and tons of it is hidden in harsh ass Jungle or swallowed up by the ever growing Sahara.

    7.Africa entered the Iron Age before Europe and some of the oldest carbon steel on the planet can be found in Africa.

    8. The oldest calculator is found in Africa,

    9. Africans were trading with Asians before Euros and Asians even though it’s harder to do so.

    10. No Agriculture? Where do you think the Americas and Europe got the Banana from? Or how about Yams, or African Rice, or Watermelon, Coffee, Black-eyed pea, Shea, Kola(Africa says your welcome for Coca Cola),

    11. Europeans didn’t invent writing, Ships, chariots, guns, spears, Bow and Arrows, Algebra, computers, music, cities, governments, pasta, domestication, the compass, rockets, etc etc. This attributed to the European mind isn’t even of European origin.

    I can go on and on but I said I would try to keep it short.


    All Great Western music was created by Black people: Ragtime, Blues, Jazz, Rock, Disco, Funk, Hip Hop, Techno, House, Reggae, Calypso, Salsa, etc etc.

  58. David Platts says:

    Using in reference to firearm murder rates, 25 nations across referenced on the IMF/CIA developed nation lists that allow firearm ownership comprising of 687 million people have a .183 firearm murder rate per 100,000. Our rate is 3.6. The number murdered in these nations were 1,256 while our number in 2010 was 11,078. Our nations is over 1,800% worse then the total of these 25 nations. You can’t blame that on race or wealth and income. Over two decades of data from these nations PROVE regulation works.

    Ann Coulter is loud but she is no thoughtful analyst. Racism does support some numbers she reported. The black and hispanic communities in the U.S. has a high rate of murder. However, does income and wealth inequities play a part in this data. Here’s what I’m thinking. Instead of looking at race, how about we look at the income levels of the murderers without regard to race. Do poor white have similar rates of murder to poor black and poor hispanics. We can’t? We don’t have that information? Well, how about we just use race then. Thank goodness Ann can create foundation for her racism. Since no other data exists, she must be right.

    She could place her data right inside the box she longs to work within simply because the CDC doesn’t quantify this data even though they receive death certificates of all murders in the U.S. In the meantime, the FBI receives 80% of the data on total murders and 76% of the data on firearm murders due to the voluntary nature of the data they receive by law enforcement. The variance is huge. Frankly, outside of trends, it is hard to do anything but make assumptions with FBI data.

    Before we jump to race, let’s first get a category for wealth and/or income. Then cross reference that with race, then comes the question: Which came first the chicken or the egg? Does race make these people poor then murderers or their poor because of the flaws of their race which also makes them murderers. Ann Coulter seems to think the later without data. Sounds like that idiot.

    In the meantime, the developed world with regulations (similar to right own an automobile in this nation) and right to own firearms have murder rates that are extraordinarily low because they have extremely low firearm murder rates. Why don’t we do something right and sew up the holes in our regulations? You can remove the 20,000 state regulations but creating a couple dozen strong firearm regulations. Want to save lives? Fix this mess!

    Maybe we could drop our 3.6 rate to well below 1 per 100,000 in the firearm murder category. Keep arguing about the chicken or the egg stuff. In the meantime, fix it; of course, you don’t care about needless loss of human life in what appears to be a worn torn nation.

  59. harkin says:

    Bad haircut Fred but excellent knowledge of Coulter’s constitutional right.

  60. Latonya D Rhodes says:

    I just have one question after reading all the comments…what was the purpose of her statement???…It is a well known fact whose violence and crime stats are higher, no one is disputing this, we alll know that no one’s guns will be taken away…we all know that til the end of time minorities will always be blamed for any and all things negative, whether true or not, we all know that Ann Coulter is a sensationalist who craves attention like a fatherless child…so, why are we all riled up and angry, namecalling, disrespecting and disregarding each others opinions…if there are no solutions to the problems being offered, then her statement is about as pointless as used toilet paper…smh…we need to get a grip, before this beautiful country implodes…#unitedwestanddividedwefall

  61. blackacidlizzard says:

    Whites in the US have a higher murder rate than countries in Western Europe? Hmm, maybe it’s because Whites in the US have more exposure not to firearms, but to Blacks.

    By the way, in the US race has a higher correlation to violent crime than financial status does. W Virgina is the second poorest and eleventh LEAST violent state in The Union – surprise, it’s also one of the Whitest. It isn’t that poverty causes crime, it’s that Blacks cause poverty and crime.

  62. R. Cones says:

    I love the UK and it’s judicial system. But I believe you are wrong about the lack of opportunity in the USA. What Western European country has elected a black person to run their country? I think it is zero. The opportunity is there for all US citizens. It is harder for some because of their personal situation. Barack Obama was elected president because blacks Hispanics and whites voted for him. He could not have won the presidency without the white vote. Blacks can be accepted to any college or university in the USA. You are correct that poverty is the problem. But, unfortunately, our government, and many good and well intentioned voters, have created a welfare system that encourages citizens (both black and white) to rely on the system to provide services, money, housing, etc. at the expense of self reliance, family values (check out the number of unmarried births), the belief in academic excellence, etc., etc.
    And yet many blacks go to college and become engineers, scientists, doctors, etc.
    The problem in the USA is a deterioration of the belief of the importance of a good education, family values, honesty, truthfulness, and willingness to work hard for small gains in lifestyle. The average person will not be able to live like a professional athlete, a movie star, a congressman, or a CEO. The average person, even if they go to college, will start with nothing, will work 40 hours a week with one or two weeks annual vacation, will rent until they can afford to buy a little first starter home, will spend their whole life accumulating small gains, will help their kids with college and will ultimately retire.

  63. MartyMcFly2 says:

    I live in the UK and the elephant in the room is poverty, it’s not supply of guns- where u have poor, u have crime.

    When you look at what some blacks achieve in the west, which in my opinion is riddled with racism and non opportunity, that’s what amazes me.

    Why most blacks aren’t burning down and killing whites in their droves is more the mystery

  64. ekaneti says:

    Poverty??? Why is it that the crime rate increased dramatically despite a fall in poverty in the 1960s? Also why has crime since 2008 continued to fall despite a rise in poverty? The problem is mostly culture of the underclass.

  65. Mick Price says:

    You guess that Coulter is saying blacks shouldn’t have guns? Based on what? Coulter made the completely honest claim that white USA is about as violent as Belgium, which isn’t a country that is generally seen as awash with guns. You’re strawmanning and you’re a douchebag.

  66. Mick Price says:

    Well it’s simple, liberals want blacks to support liberal policies, so they must continue to pretend that those policies are supposed to help blacks. Understand that they don’t pretend that they’re designed solely to help blacks, but they do pretend that liberal policies are designed to and do help blacks at least a bit. This includes policies like the minimum wage, which was DELIBERATELY DESIGNED to disadvantage blacks.

  67. Mick Price says:

    “Where Ann Coulter sees only race, I see race, poverty and the drug trade as potential explanations for this difference.”

    So there are no poor white people? Whites don’t use or deal drugs? Claiming that guns are the explanation when the black non-gun homicide rate is higher than the white TOTAL homicide rate is absurd. Yes the US white homicide rate appears to be about 2 times the Western European rate, but the US black homicide rate is WAY over twice the US white homicide rate. The US doesn’t have a gun homicide problem it has a black homicide problem.

  68. USCBIKER says:

    Lemme make it easy for you libs. As long as lazy negroes and other parasites wanna live off of those who work and even rob us, like that POS who brutally beat that poor NJ woman in front of her kids, we’ll use guns to blow them away.

  69. Billy says:

    I love you sir lol. Well said.

  70. Billy says:

    Thank you lol, you save me from having to post it.

  71. derphead says:

    western european crime is brought up HEAVILY by the nonwhites there. Fuck this anti white garbage article. Her statement was actually correct, too.

  72. crawbar says:

    I do not see here screams about racism… Strange…

  73. michiganmoon says:

    The FBI stats combine Hispanics into Whites. So the White murder rate includes Hispanics when you use the FBI stats.

  74. LOL says:

    Actually, all you have to do is look at the list of countries and their murder rates and you’ll see who the violent people really are, pretty obvious. Guns are banned in a lot of these countries:

  75. Arnold the Cracker says:

    Interesting that the author sees the easy solution (“It’s their guns”), but fails to note that, even with all gun homicides in the US eliminated from the picture, the US would still have the highest homicide rate of any country on that list at 1.7 non-gun homicides per 100,000 residents. (The figure given for France is incorrectly high if you average it out over the last several years as the author claimed to do. is my source.) Another commenter below says the US is significantly less violent than the countries on this list, and while this may be true in regards to violent crimes (The definition of “violent crime” varies country to country, so it would take forever to actually figure it out), but there’s no mistaking that the US’s culture is pretty violent with all of the non-gun murders.

    Then the author contradicts themselves, claiming first that guns cause murder, then that “countries with a high percentage of murders committed by firearms tend to have a low number of murders overall, and to be are awash in arms…”

    That’s right, in a country with more guns, you’re not particularly more likely to be murdered.

    Put your predetermined conclusions down and do some actual science and journalism.

  76. Arnold the Cracker says:

    Third most. Yemen is second.

  77. NCBrian says:

    Certainly, I was being a bit tongue in cheek with that remark. There are other differences. There are genetic markers, for example. In this regard however I believe that it is for more likely that this issue is far more likely to be cultural.

  78. latxguy says:

    it is more than melanim that defines a negro from a caucasion. it goes into emotions and other physical differences. if it was just skin color and nothing else then there would not be such a skew in the numbers.

  79. NCBrian says:

    I am having a hard time understanding exactly what it is you are trying to say.

  80. latxguy says:

    ignorance colors you blind. yes they did, have you ever heard of the Belgium Congo? Duh !! slavery was going on long before the Blacks in Africa saw a market in the Americas to capture and sell there own. Slavery is on going and even today the blacks actually enslave themselves for profit. Lets see when a pimp sells a woman for his profit does that define slavery? maybe the worse kind there ever was! Slaves build there country for centuries you say? lets see 1776 and actually 1778 we became the USA and slavery was declared wrong before the Civil War in 1860 in which many whites gave their lives to stop it. Centuries! do you know what a century is? 5% of the population actual owed slaves which did include black slave owners. Maybe you rather slavery never did happen here and yes when one looks at this , this could be good after all where would you be??

  81. latxguy says:

    it is facts and because it hurts you call it racist?? So lets be politically correct and just make the truth some not so offenseive? i rather have someone say it as it is and stop the color blinding the facts. Melanin in the skin? and you stop at that? it goes deeper than this. It is the emotional recactions and the hot bloodedness to handle stress. I call you blind if you are to say if you stood a white next to a black that the color of the skin is the only difference. I can only say to you is if you cannot see further than you just do not want to accept the truth and that is what is expected form the liberal side of you.

  82. Nathan Merrill says:

    Only a complete moron would say “Its their guns.”

    Notice that Switzerland’s homicide rate is 1.0. Switzerland has the second most guns of any country on the planet, after only the US, on a per-capita basis. If it is their guns, then why is Switzerland’s homicide rate so low?

    Maybe you should spend two seconds thinking instead of, you know, saying something obviously retarded.

    The actual cause is a fewfold:

    1) The hispanic population in the US is folded into the “white” statistics. Hispanics are about three times more likely to commit homicides on a per-capita basis than whites are, and comprise 1/5th of whites in the US. This suggests that despite making up 1/5th of the white population, they make up about half of the “white” homicide rate. Note that about 70% of hispanics who commit crimes in the US are non-citizens as well (native hispanics are considerably less likely to commit crimes). But anyway, given those numbers, that 2.6 isn’t really comparable – you’re actually looking at a native homicide rate of about 4/7ths that, or 1.5 per 100k, which is slightly higher than that of much of Europe, but not all THAT much higher.

    2) Americans are actually considerably LESS violent than Europeans, even NOT discounting minority populations. We are more likely to actually KILL each other, but we are actually consideably less likely to commit other violent crimes against one another. The US and Canada have comparable violent crime rates, whereas countries like the UK have more than double the US violent crime rate. Homicides are extremely rare even in the US (we’re under 5 per 100k), so compared to the violent crime rate of the UK (using US standards for “violent crime” it is north of 1k per 100k, compared to 500 per 100k in the US) homicides are a drop in the bucket.

    3) If you actually do a linear regression of crime rates by state versus gun ownership by state, there is zero correlation. Hawaii, where less than 10% of the population possesses guns, has a comparable homicide rate to Wyoming, where 60% of the population possesses guns. The overall R-squared value is very close to zero. Note that if you include Washington DC, the regression will actually appear to show that higher gun ownership PREVENTS crimes, but there are various factors involved there that mean you really don’t want to include DC (namely the fact that it has an enormous black population and the fact that it is a single city which banned many guns; it had a very high homicide rate even prior to the ban, though). Note that the state with the highest homicide rate – Louisiana – has an average gun ownership rate.

    Guns don’t cause homicides. People commit homicides with guns, but it isn’t clear at all from actual data that gun ownership even has anything to do with murder rates. Amusingly, many years in Wyoming, as many people are murdered with knives as guns, despite the fact that Wyoming has more than one gun per resident on average. If guns caused homicides, Switzerland would have a high homicide rate.

    Homicide is a cultural issue.

  83. Dan says:

    You will probably find that a high propotion of the murders in Belgium are also carried out by blacks if you ever visit the place it as a very high African population ex african congo citizens especially in the larger city’s So the white murder rate would be a lot lower in Belgium if you took these murders out so the USA as a long way to go if you want to just add up white murder rate only

  84. Mike says:

    Oh and one last thing.. Coulter actually has COURAGE and often tells it like it is.. Now go find Barry’s certificate, will ya? I hear it is floating in a bottle in a river in Camden, New Jersey.

  85. Mike says:

    Pretty funny when pathetic leftists cannot ADMIT the obvious: That blacks and browns OUTLANDISHLY drive up the gun homicide rates.. DUHHHH…. Diversity and multi-culturalism truly are brain washing tools, huh? PS.. the European rate IS going up and will continue to- count on that one. Hey, cars kill people all the time.. Time to ban them? Time to ban knives yet? How about foods? How about clubs and bats? Oh, and for you communists: You are NEVER taking away the guns from the second Amendment people. It was put in there for a reason to stop scum like you who are America hating parasites. PS.. Switzerland has TONS of guns.. Now, go take a walk in the ghetto of Detroit, North Philly, Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago and on and on and let us know how you do, Ok? For the sane, we will keep OUR GUNS…

  86. Conor McCartney says:

    that one is simple. Democrats rely on the black vote, so the best way to do that is by making republicans all look racist, so democrats don’t want to ever say anything tough or harsh about blacks lest they risk offending a rock solid voting base. As a result there is no reflection on issues such as valuing education, or black on black crime.

  87. Robb Evans says:

    Most Americans recognize the demographic that commits 52% of the homicides despite making up only 13% of the population is the problem.

    Most Americans are just afraid to speak the truth.

    Murder rates of various regions from a United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime report:

    Eastern Africa——21.9/100k Africa
    Middle Africa——-20.8/100k Africa
    Southern Africa—–30.5/100k Africa
    Western Africa——15.4/100k Africa
    Caribbean———–16.9/100k Americas (large African population)

    Northern America—-3.9/100k Americas
    Eastern Europe——6.4/100k Europe
    Northern Europe—–1.5/100k Europe
    Southern Europe—–1.4/100k Europe
    Western Europe——1.0/100k Europe

    There is a pattern here and it’s not guns.

  88. cody jennings says:

    everybody cherrypicks their data to strengthen their arguments. that said no matter how you paint it there is a serious murder problem in the black community. i believe the correlation lies with the breakdown of the black family over the past 50 years

  89. cody jennings says:

    there are way more poor whites than poor blacks so shouldn’t the number of white murders be proportionally higher as well if poverty causes murder?

  90. cody jennings says:

    the word is disarm….try it

  91. cody jennings says:

    actually, yes they did, and they were also made slaves at times as well. read a history book, every culture has experiences on both sides of slavery. but keep believing whatever version of history helps you feel better.

  92. cody jennings says:

    by standard response you mean logical argument you cant counter. alcohol and greasy foods also will not save your life when someone breaks into your house, nor will they provide nutrition for your family by killing a deer, and despite why you think all these things exist the fact is alcohol and greasy food kill exponentially more people than my rifle.

  93. Scott says:

    Articles like this often make me chuckle. I guess from an American perspective, those of us in Europe don’t have any firearms. We just turned them in, registered them with our Governments, and handed over WWII machine-guns. Or the restrictions are such that they are hard to come by.

    I would hope that the author at least head over and read the ‘small arms survey’ at the Graduate Institute of
    International Studies in Geneva, Switzerland. Obtain a copy of what i’m about to suggest. Plenty of firearms are present in Europe. Its just far more common to have unregistered firearms then legally registered ones. The obvious conclusions is that its not the prevalence of guns or a lack of availability to purchase from underground sources that result in a lower murder rate.

    Now contemplate why our murder rates are lower without considering this perpetual myth on the availability of guns. Then, you might start addressing your problem.

  94. Deven W says:

    Crime has gone down with technology. It is much harder to get away with a crime today, or at least there is the perception of that. Poverty is still a great indicator of violence. Welfare is a great indicator of violence. Also, growing up in a fatherless home is a great indicator of violence.

    Ultimately, it is a culture issue.

    Of course the same argument you just made could be used in favor of putting MORE guns on the streets. Crime rate has gone down while the number of firearms has gone up drastically over the last 20 years.

  95. Tjrzz says:

    These numbers are misleading because the FBI statistics (which I assume is where you got the numbers) lumps Hispanics into the white murder rate. So the European white murder rate in the US is even lower than you claim here.

  96. ronnie says:

    As a black man, I completely agree with the spirit, if not the actual numbers, of what crazy-as-guano Coulter says. it’s some weird kind of racism that talks around the problem of black violence in America. IT IS A HUGE PROBLEM. Most of the victims of this violence are other blacks. Yet, every time the gun debate comes up, it’s treated as though it’s a problem of hillbillies. This allows the problem to go unresolved. This subterfuge wrecks any chance of an honest discussion. If you want black-on-black crime to continue keep mischaracterizing this problem… Why do liberal approaches to black problems have such harmful consequences?

  97. JC Villar says:

    The murder rate has nothing to do with the gun issue. The issue is liberty. The Constitution doesn’t guarantee anyone a right to be safe, it guarantees a right to be free. If you want to be safe, pack your crap, move to North Korea and find yourself a nice rice paddy to work in tepid and muddy waters up to your thighs for the remainder of your uneventful life. As long as you keep your mouth shut and cry hysterically at state funerals, nothing bad will ever happen to you. Maybe.

  98. alistz says:

    You also have to factor in that Europeans have crappy health care. Many people who survive violence here would be dead from the lack of care.

    Until Obamacare is implemented and our health care system becomes as crappy as theirs, we can’t really compare ‘death’ rates.

    We need to be calculating ‘attempts’ .

  99. alistz says:

    Of course. Liberalism is an emotionally based belief in utopia. a liberal will never quote a number unless to distort and mislead.

  100. alistz says:

    And of course since socialized health care sucks so bad, many people in Europe die from poor car where we Americans get them into a hospital and save them.

    Obamacare should make our death rate for murder get even higher

  101. alistz says:

    Since a million + people died under Bill Clinton’s food embargo of Iraq, Bush’s pro-active war therefore had the effect of saving lives.

  102. alistz says:

    You’re an insane reactionary libtard blinded by your hatred of white culture.

  103. alistz says:

    The facts remains: Ann Coulter was simply pointing out the gun violence rates among whites are lower than among blacks.

    This blogger fails to mention that the DOJ includes Hispanic gun violence in the rate it reports for White people.

    If you adjust for Only non-hispanic whites in the stats, then that sub-group would have a murder rate approaching Irelands. Most likely, if you took the UK murder rate and adjusted that for their non-white murderers, you probably get the same murder rate as Ireland.

    You liberals are so reactionary that you can’t accept that accepting racial differences for what they are: REAL, might lead to actually solving social problems.

  104. alistz says:

    Most serial killers in America are black.

  105. alistz says:

    If Gun Control is a good thing, then why would it be a bad thing if it were applied to non-whites only?
    Particularly if non-whites have higher rates of gun death and violence than whites.

  106. DD says:

    At face value her comments are correct, but may I remind everyone there are blacks in Europe as well. I would love to see the numbers for black population in those countries. I guess Ann Coulter is saying that minorities should be banned from having guns essentially taking away their rights as a throw back to the Reconstruction and Jim Crow South, too bad it’s almost always the white person that goes on massive shooting sprees. At least without guns lynch mobs can become popular again.

  107. Kyle Rogers says:

    The author has made a serious error. The rate of 2.6 includes all white and Latinos. Latinos commit murder at a much higher rate than white Americans. This drive the score up. The Feds count all Latinos as “white” in offender data.

  108. BeansNRice says:

    Total Europe, which includes Russia, has had a higher murder rate with guns i the past decade than the US. Nobody brings this up. But this isn’t the point. Where these murders happen matters. Yes, UK has a low gun murder rate….so does Scarsdale NY. So does Iowa. But check out the numbers in your local hood…they are off the charts. So when we cherry pick UK out of Europe, let’s do the same here…..let’s target the hood where the vast majority of the gun violence exists. And for you racists out there, the hood can be just as white as black. In fact, most poor are white in the US. So there.

  109. Bill Smith says:

    The fact is that blacks commit more violent crime in countries all over the world… Quit blaming the messenger… The fact is, their are more whites total, living in poverty in the US, the white murder rate should dwarf that of blacks.. Asian immigrants excel all over the world, as do brown people from other countries.. Blacks have higher rates of violence EVERYWHERE! Blacks have murdered Thousands of whites in South Africa in the past 20 years.. The country has gone to hell in that same time that blacks have been in power in the government.. Similar to cities in the US with black mayors and city councilmen.. Integrated black students in the suburbs do not show better graduation rates than their inner city counterparts. Half of all black males drop out of high school. The majority of their adults behave like juveniles, and have behavioral self control in public places.. Although their are exceptions, the evidence backs up the fact that blacks average much lower IQ.. It is absurd to expect populations of people separated by oceans for thousands of years, to have brains and bodies that have evolved at the same rate. It is OK to describe blacks as better athletes than everyone else, but not to question if their intelligence is lower!? Why are they better athletes?? Maybe because their bodies evolved differently? Evidence to Africans having lower IQ’s would be, that Africans were living in the stone age when whites arrived in Africa, and many still live that way today.. They hadn’t created a written language, and in most areas, the vocabulary only consisted of hundreds of words, where the English language is now sitting at a million. Historical writings from men who explored Africa, question how Africans had not learned to harness the wind and water with boats… They were surprised that with such large animals, they had not yet harnessed these beasts to aid in agriculture.. There was not much of a sign of agriculture.. Africans lived day to day, without any concept of future, much like they still do..

  110. King Solomon says:

    Finally, I’ve met someone I can be friends with!

  111. pablo says:

    great point, we could compare irishmen in ireland with irish-americans, likewise with italy and italian-americans. If we do this what would we learn about the explanatory effect of the number of guns owned in the US with that in Italy or Ireland ? Seems easy enough to do that stats. Im guessing that the blogger will not want to see that data.

  112. Mike says:

    Plain wrong. The blogger here does not realize that the White crime rate INCLUDES HISPANICS. If you remove the Hispanic crime rate, you easily put American white crime rate in the range of the European countries. Of course it would be insane for me to assume the blogger here would retract this article or admit this very obvious mistake.

  113. Bruce D says:

    The “white ” U.S. murder rate includes Hispanics who have a very high murder rate. Unfortunately, the FBI doesn’t track homicide offenders by ethnicity like it dies by race. If we consider only non-Hispanic whites, the U.S. white murder rate is likely below all the gun-control nations.

  114. Fred says:

    I am not sure if poverty is the problem, and if it is what do we do? Do we take money and spread it out so everyone has an equal share? I do believe that education is the problem, Yale studies have proven a link between violent crime and lack of education. I think we could start there, but how do you make the children learn that don’t want to?

  115. Fred says:

    Finland is 2.2, but she is off saying it is the same as Europe, I agree. That being said, you still can’t deny the drastic drop in the murder per capita rate if you only take whites. It does show there is a problem and I know you don’t want to post the black murder rate if you pull all whites and Hispanics out of the USA. We have a problem in this country and it is genocide of black on black crime. I hope at some point that people acknowledge this problem and we work on a viable solution because it is sad to see so many of them die every year. Do I have the answer, no? The blacks in the US kill each other off at the same rates as we see in many African countries. It is very tragic. We have to stop denying the problem and get our greatest minds together to try and fix it.

  116. Tagg says:

    If it’s about guns then why does Russia have a murder rate 4X that of the US and virtually no guns?

  117. King Solomon says:

    How about we remove the Italians and Irish from that Demograhic, we’ll get the REAL Euro White AMerican Rate because those Gumbas and Gingers commit more white crimes.

  118. George Rivas says:

    The numbers are a little different. The WWSJ online has a “Murder in America” project with an online database and active filters. Over the past decade these are the numbers for gun deaths: 32,327 white, 15,334 hispanic, 60,028 black. So the black gun death rate is more like 6x the white. Note these numbers are victims, not shooters — because about 1/3 of the shooters race is unknown…I guess they got away.

  119. George Rivas says:

    Well, if Ann Coulter is being selective in choosing Belgium you are being even more selective in ignoring most of the rest of the world. ALmost all eastern europe, russia, africa, south america, central america, and much of asia has a higher murder rate than the us average — not to mention the white-only average. I guess you are a strong believer in American Exeptionalism and need the USA to be better than everybody at everything.

    Oh, btw, the USA has more guns in private hands than the rest of the (oppressed) world combined. So comparing deaths by guns is pretty pointless… did you have a point?

    While I agree that causality is aligned with poverty and drugs it seems, sadly, that these are also correlated with race in our country as black and hispanic populations tend to cluster in the inner city.

    If you adjust for the number and availability of guns then you’ll discover that the guns/gundeath ratio in the US is about the same as Belgium at 29000 and far better than Holland at 9000. Ignoring the number of guns when studying gun deaths is like comparing shark attack numbers between island Australia and land-locked Bolivia.

  120. Fred says:

    Free speech. Everyone should have a platform. I don’t believe in censoring people I don’t agree with.

  121. Fred says:

    Does US ‘whites only’ murder rate: 2.6 include suicide? If so, pull suicide out and lets have a look. It could be we have a higher suicide rate here right? I think overall studies show that europeans have a less stressful happier life. I know when I lived in Europe I had more vacation time, worked less hours, and just felt less stress and depression overall because of the lifestyle.

  122. Fantom says:

    Incorrect, your “whites only” includes hispanics. When you remove that demographic, you get a Euro-White American rate around 0.8 or there abouts, as low as the lowest European country.

  123. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Anyone who starts a post with “You are an idiot” gets no reply. Sorry your parents didn’t bring you up better.

  124. NoMObama says:

    And liberals have a way of completely ignoring statistics and relying on their sense of entitlement and superiority (remind you of any particular race?) and of course the appeal to people’s emotions but fail to address the logical, factual rebuttals from conservatives and instead divert to an unrelated topic to shift attention from the point they no they have no argument against.

  125. NoMObama says:

    You are an idiot. The murder rate can’t be compared to the presidential election because there is no winner to the murder rate. I don’t even like Romney but it is a fact that more wealthy white people voted for him, just like it is a fact that the murder rate among black men is 8 times that of the rest of the country. So you are just plain wrong and you’re using self-serving comparisons to make your opinion seem factually based, which it is not. You get that right?

  126. SkippyFlipjack says:

    then it wasn’t the Truth. you get that, right?

  127. Aggie95 says:

    no they are roughly 13 % of the population

  128. Aggie95 says:

    actually you are incorrect ….

    the civil war was began by democrats in the South to keep the right to own black men women and children

    WW I ….. democrat president

    WW II ….democrat president

    Korea …. Democrat president

    Vietnam … Democrat president …truman sent the first troops and military aid ….kennedy and Johnston blew it all to hell and gone using the made up Gulf of Tonkin incident to drive us deeper into the war ( can you say Johnston lied and people died …. a mere 50,000 only as democrat war go not a very large number ) …NOW WHAT OTHER LITTLE PROBLEMS HAVE DEMOCRAT CAUSED …. lets see there was special order 9066 ….FDR imprisoned tens of thousands of American citizens based soley on their race …. no trial …no jury …zip ….. the only time nuclear weapons used against humans ,…. a democrat ….twice ….civilians at that ….Jim Crow …. the KKK ….. the black codes …. the poll tax ….. lynchings ….all democrat creations

  129. Aggie95 says:

    what gun show loop hole …. if you sell a handgun private or threw a dealer you still have to go threw a background check ….if you do not you broke the law …..rife and shotgun sales threw private owners you do not ….over 90 % of gun related murders are committed using handguns

  130. Aggie95 says:

    so she’s right but still a Liar ….Odd

    In a nutshell: Coulter is right, about Belgium — and only Belgium

  131. Aggie95 says:

    LOL cherry picking …well I guess maybe but was what she said the truth

  132. Aggie95 says:

    no it doesn’t

  133. Aggie95 says:

    ah yes the old poverty causes crime argument ….well has poverty been up over the last 5 – 6 years …. if your answer is yes then can you please explain why it is there has been a drop across nearly all crime catogories over that same time frame ….and over the last 20 years the murder rate has been reduced by 50 %

  134. Aggie95 says:

    democrats … or at least I can make the case that the more democrat an area is the greater the murder rate will be ….. fact ….. don’t believe it ….well look at the areas that voted for obama then look at the number of murders in those areas

  135. Aggie95 says:

    O.K. and here is a little nugget she fails to mention ….. hispanics are included in the White murder rate ….so riddle me this …what is the White murder rate if hispanics are excluded as well

  136. ghastlygames says:

    You’re a total idiot. It’s open season on white people and you want to get rid of our guns? That’s moronic.

  137. The_Anticommunist_Columnist says:

    Exactly. One problem with the whole guns equal murder argument is that the numbers tend to be flipped. Whites own more guns but commit fewer murders per capita than Blacks. Urbsn areas have less guns but more murders per capita than rural areas.

    I wouldn’t blame race for these disparities but what you certainly cannot do is blame the guns…

  138. Rman says:

    Anyone who criticizes blacks is a racist according to the left. Blacks commit most of the murders and represent a small percentage of our population. Instead of criticizing the messenger for pointing this out, we need to deal with it. Its a fact. The more important question is why and how can we help. The destruction of the black family by poorly designed and executed welfare policies is one of the leading causes. If you do not have a father, who is the disciplinarian. Who is the person you want to emulate. The figures speak volumes about policy failures. Instead of name calling..think about how we can rebuild the black family.

  139. Naja pallida says:

    Cue standard response: Because alcohol and foods are not created with the express intent of killing things.

  140. Wildcatman says:

    How many people die every year due to alcohol? I have seen conservative estimates that are ten times the firearm rate. So why not ban drinking and greasy food?

  141. dctrknew says:

    There is nothing racist about reading statistics. The resulting actions you take or beliefs you hold based on the information you read may become twisted into racism, but that that would be morally unacceptable. We must treat our fellow man with dignity and respect. That said, in citing the following studies, I hope no one is offended. If you are, then it is likely because you have your own false assumptions. I would like to know what conclusion can be drawn from the Bureau of Justice statistics found at this webpage. (page 11) Why are minority rates of murder (24.7/100,000) so much higher than the majority (3.4/100,000)? The murder rate for “whites 3.4/100,000” includes latinos as well, so it is reasonable to say that white-non-hispanic murder rates are even lower than 3.4. This page from the CDC shows that the white-non-hispanic murder rate is 2.7/100,000. Why do people of European ancestry commit fewer murders than people of African ancestry? I am a responsible gun owner and want to retain my second amendment constitutional right, but I realize the naivety in claiming that guns have little or no effect on the murder rate. The fact is; guns are used in war because they are an effective means towards their intended end. Baseball bats and knives could be used in war, but they generally are not. I’ll finish this long winded comment with stating my point of view. Gun sales should have a degree of oversight, yes. Some people should not own them for various reasons (psychiatric, history of violence etc.) But this discussion about homicide and guns should go much deeper. WHY do people kill others? All we are currently focused on is HOW. A band aid on a gaping wound won’t fix it. I would advise anyone who is interested in FIXING the problem to spend some time volunteering at a local Boys and Girls Club or another organization aimed at helping those in need. Our country is more segregated and scared of each other today than it was 40 years ago. Change that. —any helpful comments are appreciated.—

  142. KN says:

    But the truth is that although whites comprise 67% of the population, Hispanics 16% and blacks, just 13%, blacks are responsible for roughly half the murders in America. The murder rate among blacks is eight times as high as among whites.

  143. Tostik says:

    Racism? really?!! Do you know how many times I’ve seen Ann Coulter called a slut in comment sections of other articles on this subject because of this statement? Left wing sexism is exposed here, not the non-existent racism of Ann Coulter.

  144. NCBrian says:

    not to mention the fact that they’re including all gun deaths in those numbers. Alaska has the highest rate of gun deaths in the nation – at a staggering 20+ people per 100k. what they don’t often mention is the fact that 72% of those deaths are suicides.

  145. NCBrian says:

    So let me get this straight – what she said was true, but it’s still racist?

    I certainly agree that it is a distasteful statement and, like much of what she says, lacking in tact – but if she’s right, then she’s right. She herself might or might not be a racist individual, truth be told i don’t think i’d be surprised either way, but if what she said is true, how can it be racist?

    Isn’t pretending like a correlation between race and violence doesn’t exist more racist than actually adressing it?

    I for one don’t believe that the amount of melanin in your skin makes you more or less prone to murder. So assuming i’m right about that, what’s the problem? Poverty? Culture?

  146. EnterSandman says:

    i still do not believe that guns should be banned and after only reading two articles on this website i feel you all are closed minded because of Americas two party system doesn’t matter if you are left wing or right wing i feel like America should have more choice on who should be running the country because frankly, i didn’t want to vote for Obama or Romney. you all think that there is only two approaches to every situation like this gun ban which i honestly believe that we shouldn’t be banning any guns from the people because it limits our freedoms, but i also believe we should take measures to keep guns out of the hands of bad people or maybe its not even the people that are bad its our way of living.

  147. Guest says:

    I still Dont

  148. rrr says:

    I find it hard to see how it is “psuedo-scientific.” Did someone say she had somehow done ‘science’? I don’t think many people would think it’s ‘science’. It’s not like the person is even thinking that it’s an experiment or anything; they’re just comparing how many murders and how many guns have been counted.

  149. rrr says:

    What happens if you compare the firearm murder rate in the US and a country with many guns like Switzerland after making adjustments?

    Are you sure it was for militias doing slave patrols? I thought the 2nd amendment had more to do with ensuring people would be able to overthrow a government that was tyrannical like the people of the colonies did with the British government.

  150. Neil Kelly says:

    If one subtracts recidivism and the race element, it is clear the justice system intentionally releases dangerous people onto our streets, ignores illegal immigration, turns a blind eye toward drug cartels and then attempts to combine a white gun owner; a suburban man with a wife and kids in on the same statistic.
    I understand the DOJ and local police add hispanics into the white column. Geez, why would they do that?
    Are we ignoring some horrific murders where a gun should have been used in self defense? What about the 2.5 million times a year guns are used that way in the u.s.?
    I really don’t trust a group of people with guns who say I shouldn’t have one. I don’t even trust their stats. You shouldn’t either. When something hits the fan you’re living a fantasy if you think someone else will be responsible for your safety.

  151. Troey Edwards says:

    If you have less guns, yes you would have less gun crime. But you aren’t comparing apples to apples here. Look at the DUI rate. Drunk Drivers kill more children and People then all gun crime combined. Yet we have the same laws, even stricter, then European countries do. Guess what? European countries have a much much lower rate of Drunk Driver fatalities.

    So both you and Ann Coulter are wrong. There is something unique about American society that disillusions youth and makes people turn to Alcohol and guns for a release of anger or an escape. In Europe, Time Wealth is viewed in higher esteem then Money Wealth.

  152. becee74 says:

    im sure belgium didn’t import slaves & have’em help build their country financially for centuries either..

  153. George A says:

    Gun control advocates make the case for guns causing murder by comparing raw numbers showing firearm deaths in the US that are hundreds of times that in Europe, not the 2 or 3 times you apparently get when you compare similar ethnicities. If you think such comparisons are racist, take that up with the racists in the federal government who publish the data.

  154. George A says:

    Epidemiology is tricky. The reason for a correlation between gun deaths and gun ownership may also be that people in high crime areas are more likely to purchase firearms for defense.

  155. josh316 says:

    I don’t understand your response, namely the part about blacks being 10% of the U.S. population and the part about 90,000 murders per 100,000 people.

    I am not making a value statement about whom we should consider white, but an empirical statement that the statistics you cited do not differentiate between White and Hispanic Thus the white rate is inflated. I don’t know to what degree the rate is inflated, but it is inflated, and you should not be so quick to conclude what you did.

    I think Coulter is actually wrong about her Belgium statistics, btw. I think it’s obvious that guns are going to increase the murder rate.

  156. josh316 says:

    You’re being facetious.

  157. Corey says:

    so time to unarm whites

  158. Fiona Lynn says:

    Perhaps Lindsay is a woman? I have heard that Ann’s real name is Arthur Coltrane. But it could just be a rumor.

  159. Fiona Lynn says:

    You were never a “bleeding” heart liberal. Your long post proves it.

  160. MyrddinWilt says:

    They go a little further into the figures. Age is certainly a big factor, the white population is somewhat older and most murders are committed by young males. If you adjust for poverty and age and geography, the race element probably disappears completely.

    But that starts to over-analyze the bigoted witch. If you apply the same set of adjustments to Belgium, the figures change there as well. And when you compare like with like the US non-firearm murder rate is pretty much the same as the European and the firearm murder rate is about a hundred times bigger.

    The original purpose of the second amendment was to protect the right of the state of Virginia to maintain its slave patrols. It was not there to protect freedom, it was to protect slavery.

  161. ronbo says:

    Facts have a way of driving “former bleeding heart liberals” to write long, unfocused comments. Statistically, most FBHLs don’t engage in violence. Ta Da! The magic of anecdotes.

    Add anecodes to my list above. I’m sure I missed other errors in logic. Please comment so that I can add yet another.

  162. Chris says:

    So how do you explain that our family grew up poor, blatino, in a single parent household, in the South Bronx of the 70s/80s, with burnt out buildings, drugs everywhere and we all turned out fine? No criminal records for any one of us (as well as extended family growing up in the same area, similar upbringings with single parents, etc). I am tired of the Left claiming poverty and income ALWAYS causes crime and lawlessness. It’s not like we were starving and had no clothing on our backs. We had welfare, food stamps and working class jobs and none of us had to go out and kill “whitey” (or our own kind) because we were “oppressed”.

    Those that engaged in crime did it because THEY WANTED TO; no reason except to be lawless and total a-holes. I assume you are a white liberal who has never lived amongst poor minorities and are led to believe everything you hear and read from Lefties who want to punish the middle class and the rich for being successful. If I went to college, had lots of resources granted to us poor minorities to attend college and make something of ourselves, why can’t the rest of those children of single parent households do the same?! I mean, come on.

    If anyone wants to read an alternative point of view from a black, young intellectual about how the “poor” black community for the most part, chooses their bleak existence, read “Losing the Race” by John McWhorter. The Left wants to always find a boogle man: blame white folks and the “racist” government. And the Left wants well-off middle class whites to feel guilty for being successful. Well, you shouldn’t. As someone who lived in Wisconsin for years, in the poorest neighborhoods which were 99.99 percent white, I never felt unsafe as I used to growing up in the South Bronx. To deny that people of color in ghettos commit more crimes compared to their population size is denial. Those poor whites didn’t commit crimes when I was living there. Even with a meth epidemic in my area, I felt safe. I can’t say the same about my South Bronx areas I grew up in. Being poor does not equate to growing up a criminal. It sure didn’t happen to me or many of other poor families I grew up around. So enough excuses already. Now that I am back in NYC, who are the ones trying to rob me on the subways? Young people of color. Never do I fear being around a white person on a subway, ever. So are these young black/latino thugs “poor”. Not really. They have expensive sneakers I can never afford and expensive gadgets. They rob people because they are bullies and lawless and despise whitey and even worse… despise people of color like me, who actually are successful and look it. Their parents, for the most part, are working class or receive Welfare benefits. I doubt any are poor. They are not starving or forced to steal. I have seen poorer in rural Wisconsin with no threat of violence to my personhood. What an eye opener that was to me.

    Signed: a former bleeding heart liberal.

  163. melbach007 says:

    My question would be what is the difference in the numbers of the black vs white Belgian population.

  164. This: “Where Ann Coulter sees only race, I see race, poverty and the drug trade as potential explanations for this difference.” is the most important point in your essay, in my opinion.

    For issue after issue, being marginalized and oppressed correlates strongly with negatives like violence, addition and substance abuse, HIV infection rates, etc – yet conservative professional liars consistently rape the data to promote their particular prejudices.

    Why? Because they are the oppressors, or work for them, and therefore profit from blaming the effects of oppression and marginalization on the marginalized and oppressed as people.

  165. Kat says:

    Great coverage.

    See more reasons why her comments are offensive at .

  166. MyrddinWilt says:

    Top of the list of US mass murderers is George W. Bush with a body count of between 250,000 and 500,000 victims.

    Pretty obvious that the whites are going to win that contest whichever way you score it.

  167. MyrddinWilt says:

    I did not adjust the figures to take account of the fact that black people are roughly 10% of the population either. So the ‘Whites only’ murder rate is actually a little higher since it is actually the number of murders committed per 90,000 white people.

    Since Coulter only considers people like herself properly ‘white’ we would have to remove the Asian and Latino and all the other, not properly white people from the mix we are down to 50% of the population. So the adjustments you and the other racists would insist on start to become significant and the ‘whites only’ murder rate per 100,000 white people starts to look a lot higher.

    Nice try, now go polish your jackboots somewhere.

  168. Naja pallida says:

    There is no truth in anything Coulter says. If she claimed the sky was blue, I would double check for a psychotic right-wing slant on what she had to say. She has absolutely nothing meaningful to contribute to the discourse. Her goal is to sell more of her hack books, so she doesn’t actually have to work for a living. Nothing more.

  169. SkippyFlipjack says:

    They’d be a great DC odd couple wouldn’t they, a la Carville and Matalin? They’re in luck too, Frank lives in a state where he and Coulter can get gay married.

  170. SkippyFlipjack says:

    I think it’s an interesting exercise to explore these numbers — and great to find that Coulter was cherry-picking her cherry-picked data — but in argument terms I think doing so accepts somewhat her position that it’s acceptable to subdivide murder victims by race. It’s like Romney after the election, acting like he should have won outright because he won the white middle-income-and-above vote. Do black murder victims not count? Does Ana Greene, age 6, not count as a victim of Newtown because she was black? The proper response to Coulter is simply “What the f*** is wrong with you?”

  171. Sharon B says:

    Thanks for elevating this discussion by bringing your misogyny into it.

  172. Coulter wouldn’t recognize truth if it jumped up and bit him on his left (silicone implant) tit…

  173. Hue-Man says:

    When someone starts talking about race in this context or others, my response is “So what?” Is she saying to ban all non-whites from owning guns (cue Groucho Marx paraphrase: “Can my half-white daughter own a BB gun?”) or round up all non-whites and ship them offshore? It’s the same maddening bait-and-switch – let’s talk about gun control but first let’s talk about race.

    It’s made even more idiotic because it assumes that Belgium is 100% white. Wiki says 12.9% of Belgians were foreign-born of which half outside the EU.

  174. ronbo says:

    Historically, income and poverty have ALWAYS been the most important factor in crime. But, we aren’t talking facts; Coulter almost always latches onto the exception.

    I sometimes wish that the left would fight fire with fire and promote … well… uh… someone (wish I knew someone on the left who was a verbal bomb-thrower). But alas, we are above fighting dirty. So we just allow this kind of nitwiticism to flourish. We don’t acknowledge, accept or tolerate anyone on the left who uses such tactics. It’s both a blessing and a curse (that ensures we are always trying to use logic with the population that doesn’t acknowledge: false logic, poor sourcing, red herrings, strawmen etc…)

    We accept the MSM argung that “both sides” do it; comparing the likes of Coulter to Barney Frank.

  175. rmthunter says:

    She was waiting for someone to pay her for saying it.

  176. josh316 says:

    Hi, this piece should not be taken seriously. The author failed to mention that the offender category does not differentiate between White and Hispanics. Perhaps, once adjusting for this, Coulter is closer to the truth?

  177. josh316 says:

    Actually, 70% of mass murders have been committed by whites. They are underrepresented!

  178. josh316 says:

    The problem with this blog piece is that the white murder rate is over calculated You must remember that Whites and Hispanics are not differentiated when counted as offenders. This was omitted by the author

  179. MyrddinWilt says:

    One thing I hadn’t thought about till now is the fact that the gun makers might be a lot more willing to strike a deal than the NRA:

    The big risk for the gun industry is that the NRA are completely nuts and could easily open the door to lots of measures that hurt sales. The number of weapons bought by criminals is not big enough to rack up big profits for the gun makers, its the crooked gun dealers that want to keep background checks off the table.

    Just like the GOP has a really hard time saying no to Fox News, the gun makers are to a large degree the prisoners of their own lobbyists. The NRA probably doesn’t really have the clout it claims in Congress but its members can certainly break a gun maker in a heartbeat.

    I don’t think the stars are aligned to reinstate the assault weapons ban yet but closing the gun show loophole is certainly viable and so is banning the high capacity magazines. There is also a lot of scope to bring in controls through executive orders. For example treating an 80% lower receiver as a gun rather than as raw material, requiring the upper and lower receiver to bear serial numbers and so on.

  180. MyrddinWilt says:

    That is certainly true of suicides.

  181. Naja pallida says:

    They’ve been known to happen. Belgium has some racial tensions, of which I bet Coulter never even considered. If we’re going to factor our homicide rate down to just white people, shouldn’t we factor theirs too?

  182. Indigo says:

    Does Ms Culter know we’re Americans, not Belgians? Or is she so racist that all white people everywhere not only look alike but think alike and act alike and express contempt for socially responsible diversity alike? Good grief!

  183. MyrddinWilt says:

    Because Rupert Murdoch is just as bigoted as she is?

  184. MyrddinWilt says:

    That is something of a stretch.

    The US firearm homicide rate is 150 times that of the UK and so even if you take out all the drugs related murders that still leaves a lot of non drugs murders. Most of the gang murders are with a gun of course (with a few knives, clubs etc) but the typical gun murder is just like the typical non gun murder – a domestic dispute.

    Ending the war on drugs is important for other reasons. But the flip side is that quite a lot of murderers are on drugs when they kill and legalizing the drugs is not likely to help there.

    Almost all the UK firearms homicide rate is due to drug violence which is hardly a surprise because owning a handgun of any type is illegal unless you have a very specific justification.

  185. nicho says:

    How many mass murders does Belgium have. Most of our mass murders are from whites.

  186. FunMe says:

    Is that crystal meth addict “mental”? Or is it the drugs she takes?

    I used to think she was being outrageous to sell books. But now I don’t know. She really is going off the deep end. It would not surprise me if she ends up like Andrew Breitbart who died on the streets of Brentwood, California after spilling out so much hate. That Coulter … what a pathetic soul!

  187. Randy Riddle says:

    There’s another way to look at it: guns are an easy way to kill and they’re a weapon of opportunity. They’re more convenient for killing than poison, physical violence or weapons like a knife. One could argue that gun control reduces _opportunity_ killings – personal conflicts or anger that result in a quick reach for a gun or extending easy killing to larger parts of the drug trade that might otherwise not have access to a quick way to kill.

  188. karmanot says:

    Why does she even have a platform?

  189. MyrddinWilt says:

    The linked spreadsheets of UN stats have an endless series of rebuttals of NRA talking points.

    They love to go on about how Switzerland has a really low murder rate despite being awash in arms as every male has to be in the army. What they don’t mention is that firearms were used in 72% of the murders in the last year that they provided stats for, an even higher proportion than in the US.

    What did rather shock me was that the US non firearms murder rate looks pretty similar to the European rate. US citizens do kill with knives and poison but at pretty much the same rate as in European countries. Its not hard to see why: killing with a gun is really easy, just pull a trigger. Other methods are much harder and require a considerable degree of proximity and involve a much higher risk of being caught.

  190. Your numbers make a stronger case for ending the war on drugs and finding a solution to poverty than they do for gun control. It seems to me that without the entrenched poverty in this country and the violence the drug trade spawns the murder rate would be pretty much the same as any other country.

  191. cole3244 says:

    i wondered how long it would take ann coulter to get to the race card, it took longer than i thought to be honest with you, but thanks ann you didn’t disappoint me afterall, i knew i could depend on a rw hater like you.

  192. drdick52 says:

    To support your point, there are these studies by the Harvard School of Public Health showing that across countries and across state in the US, more guns equals more homicide.

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