Only 45% of Trump voters believe Don Jr. met with the Russians, after Junior admitted it

Public Policy Polling has a new poll out that’s depressing as hell, and a sign of just how fact-deprived Trump voters truly are.

Among other findings, only 45% of Trump voters think Donald Trump Jr. met with Russians last year to discuss their offer to help his father win the election.

And 32% say it didn’t happen at all.

This is after Donald Trump Jr. already admitted publicly that he met with the Russians, and Donald Trump Sr. tweeted the fact that his son met with the Russians. After all that, only 45% believe it.

And people wonder how democracies die.

Another troubling finding: Even though Donald Trump Jr. admitted this too, only 26% of Trump voters think the Russians wanted Trump to win. And 44% think Putin wanted Hillary to win. (Putin HATED Hillary, and that’s a leading reason he got involved in the election to begin with.) Again, Donald Trump Jr. already tweeted out the emails he received from an intermediary for the Russians, acknowledging that they wanted Trump to win and wanted to help. Yet that admission by a Trump himself isn’t enough for Trump voters.

Also bizarre, only 13% of Trump voters think Trump’s team worked with Russians to help his campaign. Again, junior already admitted meeting with the Russians for this very purpose.

PPP calls all of this a certain amount of willful ignorance. I fear it’s worse than that. PPP even polled how Trump voters would feel if he shot someone. Trump famously bragged during the campaign that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his supporters wouldn’t care. He was right. Only 29% disapprove, while 45% approve — without even knowing who he shot or why.

I watch Trump’s incremental train wreck and it explains a lot about how bad men rose to power in the past. It’s not just that they slowly, stealthily consolidate power when no one is looking. It can also be the fault of a public who knowingly accept, and shrug off, what was previously unthinkable. (Fox News isn’t helping things, either.)

Trump at a campaign rally mocking a NYT reporter with a disability.

Someone said to me the other day, “the problem isn’t Trump, the problem is America.” They meant that the Trump phenomenon goes much deeper than a shallow narcissist who never outgrew puberty and simply got lucky at the ballot box. Trump is in power because voters knew what he was, and voted for him anyway. Trump spewed sexism, racism, mocked people with disabilities and openly praised, and even embraced and defended, some of the world’s worst dictators, while repeatedly criticizing America. And people voted for him anyway.

Yes, Trump lost the popular vote; so in the end, the American people didn’t choose him to be their president. But he still got far too many votes after everything we learned about him during the campaign. Trump received 63 million votes to Hillary Clinton’s 65.8 million. Hillary kicked Trump’s ass. But someone as vile and unqualified as Trump should have lost by double-digit margins. And he didn’t.

Maybe Trump isn’t the only thing that’s broken. Maybe America is too. The question is whether we still have time to fix her.

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Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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  • Zorba

    Well bless your heart. Aren’t you special?

  • Chuck Remes

    I was banned for a day for not playing nicely enough with the other commenters here. But the moderators relented and have let me back.

    I actually typed up another (exhaustive) response to all of my detractors here. But I deleted it. We are clearly talking past each other and will not have any agreement on this topic.

    I am biased. I view Trump-related news through the lens that he’s innocent until proven guilty. Many here appear (to me) to view Trump-related news through the lens that the bastard is about to get his comeuppance.

    Yes, you all are biased too. I know you think you are free of bias and are just calling out the “facts” as you see them, but you should realize that I think the *exact same thing* yet we disagree. So, your surety in your own correctness should be suspect as it’s insufficient to prove anything to another person. Clearly my belief that I am right has done nothing to convince you all.

    That’s my last word on the topic. My guess is there will be a few more commenters who have to get in the last word and “prove” to me that I’m wrong. Have at it. Good day.

  • Badgerite

    Mueller will. Which is why trump Monster wants to fire him. Nothing suspicious there. We have a bank server in Russia that only communicated with one other server in trump tower. We have Kushner wanting a “back channel” to communicate with Putin from the Russian embassy. And trump himself meeting with Putin with no other Americans present.
    The Russians at that meeting were not ordinary Russians. Any more than Valerie Plame or Malcolm Nance are. Any more than Michael Flynn was or is.
    Any more than James Baker would be considered an ordinary American were he to request a meeting with a government official from abroad. Or Robert Gates.

  • Badgerite

    After that initial meeting, there were a lot of meetings between Kislyak, the Russian ambassador and Russian intelligence operative and trump campaign and later administration people. Which they, to a man, did not disclose and actually, as with Sessions, lied about. And you can’t figure out why they lied about and did not disclose those meetings with Kislyak? And while we are at it, this meeting was also one with high level people of the trump campaign and people who had worked for Russian governmental interests and Kushner had failed to mention it on his much “amended” SF86 security clearance forms.
    And none of the participants spoke about or admitted to prior to it being proved by other sources. There were subsequent contacts between Roger Stone and Gucifer 2.0. The people at that meeting were not your average Russian visitor. One was “former” Russian intelligence. One was a man active in operations to launder Russian criminal money via purchases of New York real estate. And one was a lawyer heavily involved in the Russian government campaign to discredit Sergei Magnitsky and his discovery of the tax fraud money that was filtered out of Russia to be laundered in foreign accounts and purchases. She was very involved with getting show a Representative Rohrbacher (GOP) of California to show Russian government propaganda film smearing Magnitsky to Congress. Other members of his committee would not allow the film to be shown in Congress itself so he
    arranged a private showing elsewhere. This was not an ‘innocent’ meeting as these are not ‘innocent’ ordinary Russians. What’s more, when you compare yourself to these people, as if a meeting with you would be the same as a meeting with them, that is ridiculous. That is like pretending that when mob families get together they are just regular Americans having a social gathering. Nothing to see here.

  • Thomas Calkins

    Wow. You live in an alternate reality Chucky……..

  • Thomas Calkins

    No Trumpkin, He made fun of a disabled person. Own your clown.

  • mgiltz

    Thanks for reinforcing my point: Trump does indeed make “spastic motions” to mock people, not just the disabled. I didn’t know who he was mocking at first but like you and everyone else, I knew what he was doing — implying the person he was mocking was pathetic, as lame as some lame-o with a disability. Because it’s always hilarious to imitate the disabled when making fun of someone by implying they’re “spastic” or “losers.” Again, his gestures are the classic little boy “spastic” gestures that use the physical and vocal mannerisms of the disabled (such as the congenital joint disorder the reporter lives with) to mock people.

  • Chuck, you are back in because you asked John nicely. But you are warned that, in fact, you are not being particularly nice and you do not seem to want to engage in a meaningful dialogue.
    We put up with a bit more from long-time commenters (although even they get warned once in awhile) but newbies are allowed less leeway.

  • burgerboy77

    Jr even fully admitted that yes- he in fact met with a Russian lawyer to dig up dirt on Hillary. YES… He actually SAID this. So thus I am confused as to why you have made up your mind and come to the wrong conclusion.

    Yes. Trump, his admin and even his son have all used Russian intelligence to manipulate the election. Those are the facts. So what do you think about those facts? Does that make you still think Trump is a great leader? What if Obama had done this, even a fraction of it? Would you just automatically brush it aside like it was nothing?

    It doesn’t matter whether this was a Democrat, Republican or independent. What Trump has done with regards to outside interference was unethical and totally out of line with democratic, American principles. What Trump has done since taking office has been to lie, deceive and then cry and whine whenever people with even the slightest degree of intelligence point out the obvious lies he tells.

    While I am not going to assume you are a Trump supporter your comments seem to be supportive of him. If so I want you and all of the other Trump supporters to do me a favor. Take a step back. Look forward to the future. Read what other leaders from other countries now say about us. Look what people from around the world now think about us. Trump and his admin are in turn DESTROYING the hard-earned, well respected image that our country has enjoyed for decades. He is making our country look like it is utterly stocked full of ignorant schmucks. Frankly I don’t watch the news anymore because it is outright shameful and embarrassing. He is doing nothing that even smells like “making America great again”. Its the opposite. He is making America a goddamned laughing stock. Don’t believe me? Look at the polls. Less than 20% of the rest of the world approves of Trump and of the few that do they aren’t exactly admirable countries. Think about that. Is that what you folks wanted? To basically do a disservice to all of the people who came before us who spent lifetimes trying to make our country a well respected pinnacle of hope only to elect a madman who makes insane child-like tweets nearly on a daily basis?

    I want an HONEST answer. Don’t even try to deny what I just posted above. Because you know it is true. You know that we now look not only weak but stupid. Take away the Russian shit and it would still be the same.

    So do me a favor. Next time how about at least consider someone who is marginally sane? Maybe someone who doesn’t act painfully embarrassing? Maybe someone who is smart? Someone who isn’t morally or even financially corrupt?

    Thanks.

  • Anita Justus

    And you are exactly what this article is all about

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Good idea.

  • Ian

    You have no idea if the charges are nonsense or not – and neither do I. But we do know that Mueller is now investigating the meeting….I wonder why? (that was a rhetorical question). https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/07/19/special-counsel-bob-mueller-now-investigating-donald-trump-jr-s-russia-meeting/490720001/

  • Chuck Remes

    I’m not engaging in word twisting. You are projecting your own failing.

    The email, written by a British man (Rob Goldstone), made some claims about the Russian government. That is not evidence, it’s hyperbole on the part of the Brit who has a successful career as some kind of agent for celebrities. If a Russian agent wrote that, I’d probably agree with you. But a British PR flack? Nope.

    The Russian lawyer has done work for the Russian government in the past. Does that taint all of her current and future work? Can a lawyer never represent an “unsavory” character without becoming complicit with their client’s sins? If so, that’s a terrible standard for anyone to live up to.

    The “plenty of info” you mention is all innuendo. Replace “Trump” in these stories with “Hillary” and see if you still believe the innuendo. I’ve done that exercise, and while i don’t like H, these charges are nonsense.

  • Ian

    You can twist around the wording as much as you want, but the emails make it clear that he met with Russians who claimed in advance that they had info that their govt wanted to share. Plenty of info has also come out since about the lawyer and her close connections with the Kremlin – including her own on the record comments. That you are part of the 45% of his supporters that still want to deny it, speaks for itself.

  • Chuck Remes

    I did try to click through and see what other brilliant missives you have posted elsewhere. However, your history is private. Shame. Guess I’ll do the same.

  • Chuck Remes

    Here’s a link to some videos showing him doing the same “flailing arm” move when talking about other, non-disabled people. It’s not a certainty that he “mocked” this particular man for his disability but you may continue to think so regardless.

    http://dailypundit.com/2017/01/16/speaking-of-lies-and-liars/

  • Chuck Remes

    Or perhaps I am an FDR-Democrat? Packing the Court is a time-honored threat by Democrats, yes?

  • Chuck Remes

    I do. I have made up my mind, based on the facts available, that Don Jr. didn’t meet with the Russian government. If you can show otherwise, do so.

  • Chuck Remes

    You most certainly can call yourself an American. But that’s not at issue here. The issue is if the person he met with was acting as a representative of a foreign government.

    If Don Jr. were to meet with you, as “an American,” does that mean he has met with a representative of its government? Unless Mike_in_the_Tundra is a rep from Alaska, the answer is No.

  • Chuck Remes

    I did click through to the original article. The exact question text isn’t listed. Based on how the article is written, the questions appear to be paraphrased.

    There is a qualitative difference between having a meeting with “a Russian” and “the Russians.” In the former, it’s a nonsensical question. Who cares if he met with a Russian, a Chinese, a Brit, an African, etc. Meetings with private citizens of other countries is hardly scandalous. If it’s the latter, then someone needs to prove that this particular Russian is a State actor or State-sponsored actor.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    I read through his comments. He thought McConnell should increase the size of the SCOTUS, so the orange one can pack the court with his cronies. Yep, Chuckie Boy is a Trumpanzee.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Since I don’t work with the U.S. government, I can’t call myself an American? Apparently, only members of the Russian government can call themselves Russians, right?

  • mgiltz

    What a depressing poll? I was just spending time with friends in the media and they were wondering how to make facts cool again and make reading and sharing ignorance and lies uncool. Clearly they have their work cut out for them.

    May I make a suggestion about the gif showing Trump mocking that NYT reporter? When I first saw that footage, I had no idea he was making fun of a specific NYT reporter and certainly didn’t know this guy has physical challenges that have him at times spastic and unable to properly control his arm motions. (My apologies if I’m wording that poorly.) Didn’t matter. I was shocked and dismayed that Trump like a school yard punk would wave his arms about spastically to make fun of someone, because of course people with physical challenges are hilarious and weak and mockable. In other words, while it’s true Trump was making fun of that specific reporter, more importantly he was mocking anyone with a disability. His supporters pretend Trump didnt have that guy in mind — so what, he’s treating physical disability as something to make fun of and any child who did that at school would be sent to detention. Any adult should know better. So maybe keep what he did simpler so some idiot can’t say “He wasn’t thinking of that reporter!” Just say, Here’s a gif of Trump mocking the physically challenged. Because without reading his mind, we all know THAT’S exactly what he’s doing.

  • Zorba

    Don’t confuse Chuckie Boy with the facts. He’s got his mind made up.

  • Ian

    Ya – except the question didn’t say “the Russians”. If you follow the link to the actual survey, this is the question they asked. Did Trump Jr. “have a meeting with Russians about information that might be harmful to Hillary Clinton.” Would you still answer no to that question?

  • Chuck Remes

    “The Russians” would imply that he met with someone from their government. That didn’t happen in that meeting (perhaps it occurred in another, unreported meeting).

    Rob Goldstone was there too. Does that mean that Don Jr. met with the British?

    Words mean specific things. This is why if you asked me the same question, I would say, “No.”

  • Joe Abraham

    That’s getting shared, for sure.

    We’re watching all these populist demagogues emerge around the world, and the part of the puzzle we’re missing is, Why are these folks successful? What is wrong, not with ‘them’ but with all of humanity, that we so willingly follow hucksters, and ignore the obvious contradictions and even lies?

    Until we work on that, humanity will remain in peril from the next despot.

  • It’s amazing how well the Rs have controlled the narrative here. Their story that Dems got the advantage due to illegals in California voting which is patently false has completely overshadowed the very real facts surrounding voter roll manipulation, effects of voter id laws, and voter intimidation.

  • Niblet58

    It would have been double digits if everyone who wanted to vote was able to. 22 million people were x-ed off the voting rolls due to “voter fraud” legislation.

  • brel1

    It’s impossible to convince people who don’t read or follow real news, don’t believe in education and are so embedded in their church and the GOP beliefs that to step out of their comfort zone would mean complete loss of identity.

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