A mathematician may have uncovered widespread election fraud, and Kansas is trying to silence her

Kansas loves them some voter fraud hysteria. From going to the Supreme Court to try and make doubly-sure that non-citizens can’t vote in their elections to setting up a voter fraud website where citizens can report every kind of voter fraud except the kinds that have actually happened in the state, Kansas is on the forefront of voter fraud readiness and protection.

Except, perhaps, when it comes to the machines they use to record their votes.

According to the Wichita Eagle, Wichita State mathematician Beth Clarkson has found irregularities in election returns from Sedgwick County, along with other counties throughout the United States, but has faced stiff opposition from the state in trying to confirm whether the irregularities are fraud or other, less-nefarious anomalies.

Analyzing election returns at a precinct level, Clarkson found that candidate support was correlated, to a statistically significant degree, with the size of the precinct. In Republican primaries, the bias has been toward the establishment candidates over tea partiers. In general elections, it has favored Republican candidates over Democrats, even when the demographics of the precincts in question suggested that the opposite should have been true.

Clarkson’s interest in election returns was piqued by a 2012 paper released by analysts Francois Choquette and James Johnson showing the same pattern of election returns, which favor establishment Republican candidates in primaries and general elections. The irregularities are isolated to precincts that use “Central Tabulator” voting machines — machines that have previously been shown to be vulnerable to hacking. The effects are significant and widespread: According to their analysis, Mitt Romney could have received over a million extra votes in the 2012 Republican primary, mostly coming at the expense of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich. President Obama also ceded significant votes to John McCain due to this irregularity, as well.

You can read the paper in full here.

Voting machine, via Wikimedia Commons

Voting machine, via Wikimedia Commons

While Clarkson has found the same statistical irregularity in a number of localities, her efforts to confirm whether they amount to fraud have been centered on Sedgwick County, Kansas, due to the locality’s use of Real Time Voting Machine Paper Tapes, which provide a paper trail that other localities don’t have. However, her efforts to verify Sedgwick County’s election returns have been repeatedly shut down.

She first requested a recount of the 2013 election, but the timeframe in which a recount could have been requested had passed. She then requested the machines’ computer records from the Sedgwick County registrar, which told her to kindly shove off and sue Secretary of State Kris Kobach if she wanted the records so badly.

When Clarkson initially filed her lawsuit requesting the paper records from the voting machines, her suit was denied because a judge ruled that the paper records constituted ballots, shielding them from the state’s open records law. This ruling is suspect at best, given that the paper records do not have voters’ names assigned to them; they only record when and how a ballot was cast for recount purposes.

She then sought a court order giving her access to a sample of voting records in order to check voting machines’ error rates. This order was ignored by the Secretary of State’s office, despite their being legally required to respond to her within 30 days. The office later said that they didn’t realize they had received her request.

Given Kansas’s professed diehard commitment to combatting election fraud, one would think that they would be all for analysis into whether the integrity of their elections have been compromised. Apparently you’d be wrong.

(h/t Occupy Democrats)

Correction: The original title of this post referred to the bias in election returns as “voter fraud.” As the allegation of fraud is not against individual voters, but rather administrators of elections, “election fraud” is correct. This change has been made where appropriate.


Jon Green graduated from Kenyon College with a B.A. in Political Science and high honors in Political Cognition. He worked as a field organizer for Congressman Tom Perriello in 2010 and a Regional Field Director for President Obama's re-election campaign in 2012. Jon writes on a number of topics, but pays especially close attention to elections, religion and political cognition. Follow him on Twitter at @_Jon_Green, and on Google+. .

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  • Dakor jparie

    For memories, they is a film about it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TDqMr6NlY

  • Coralabra

    Paper ballots!

  • ConcernedCitizen15

    When Bush was asked in the debates what he would do if he lost, he swaggered and said that he couldn’t lose. That’s when I knew the cheating was already set up. He was just too sure. The same thing happened with Romney, but the computer nerds were ready this time and blocked the change when the machines went down.

  • Just call me Joe

    You might want to actually read the technical details and ask questions about the methodology, assumptions, and characteristics of the data.

    She found a correlation alright, but the possible explanation of fraud only exists for a particular assumption that isn’t true.

    Don’t be so quick to believe wild statements just because you wish they were true.

    Sorry. Better luck next time.

  • Just call me Joe

    I don’t put any more weight into voting predictions than I do of how sure Al Gore was that the Arctic Ocean would be ice free by 2014.

  • Just call me Joe

    I looked at her write-up, and she has a mistake in her assumptions.

    She assumes that all precincts are equal in geographical size, varying in number of voters, in which case the results she gets could lead to the strange conclusion that urban areas vote more Republican than average areas.

    But precincts are not the same size geographically, and vary widely. In which case the results uncover a bias in precinct size that is correlated with voting pattern. That makes no difference in outcomes. How could such a bias come about? If suburban and exurban precincts are disproportionally larger than those in urban areas. But that is exactly what we want, since more people in urban areas do not have cars and it is easier to manage more precincts when closer together.

    Her study says more about how precincts are drawn than anything else.

  • voltaic

    Nice work. It’s been obvious from the get go that GOP is not concerned about voter fraud, they are concerned that people will vote. Fraud is only a screen to subvert the voting efforts of millions and hide the trail of lies and deceit that infest GOP voting supervisors, election officials and state legal representation. Republicans can’t find a single case of voter fraud and if someone that’s not a GOP insider wants to see GOP election rigging, the GOP runs for cover and hides behind their ignorance. Vote GOP! Vote to suppress the vote!! Vote to ignore election rigging!!! Vote to destroy democracy one vote at a time!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

  • bronncohowie

    I live in Ohio, the home of Diebold, Inc. a maker of voting machines. Diebold is a HUGE republican contributor and has been for years. NO Democrat has been elected to a State wide office since 2010. Coincidence ? I don’t think so. I would be very interested to hear if anyone knows what brand of voting machines are used in Kansas.

  • CT Perry.

    guys …call +15702908280 for your social network hacks , iTunes recovery ,i cloud recovery , background checks , cash flip , DMV, Taxes and bank transfers, mobile device hack , basically anything ..put a call through and its professionally done !

  • I’m so glad to be FROM Kansas.

  • Betty Caron

    Did it make you wonder why Karl Rove on election night was so sure Romney would win? The fix was in but the hacking was blocked and didn’t go in. Shocking.

  • Charles Edward Pardue

    First, the machine code and equipment needs to be edited by an independent source to verify that it is resistant to tampering. The CEO of Diebold told the Ohio GOP that the 2000 election was “in the bag” since their units were being used for the election.

    Companies that make these units are using “trade secrets” as a means to avoid having these units audited for outside manipulation. As Josef Stalin once said, “It’s not important who votes, what matters is who counts the votes”.

    I worked in California as a poll worker for three election cycles and all our systems had paper ballots that were machine processed and could easily be checked by an independent auditor for their validity. The issue lies with states that are going to all-electronic system in the interests of “efficiency” when the real interest is vote manipulation.

  • Racer X

    “Given Kansas’s professed diehard commitment to combatting election fraud, one would think that they would be all for analysis into whether the integrity of their elections have been compromised. ”

    I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell those folks who believe that…

  • Joey Bagodonuts

    Kevin,
    It’s not a bad idea, but the problem still exists once you reconnect them to the network to process the vote in order to have them counted. Paper votes may make a comeback. So sad.

  • tiredsucker

    He said there were 150,000 registered repubs in the county, but 190,660 voted for Romney. Well there you go, 40,000 fake GOPers. He’s probably just embarassed by the more than 2 to 1 margin for the Dems.

  • Kevin Sagan

    by not connecting them to a network.

    https://xkcd.com/463/

  • David Harmon

    Yes, because there obviously would be another party that came into power, but it’s almost assured that you wouldn’t live long enough to see it.

  • John from Detroit

    The Biggest fraud when it comes to voting is being Comitted by Mr. Mander,, that is Gerry Mander. We need to get rid of him first.

    But I do agree we need a positive paper trail to verify voting and we need to make machines that can not be hacked.. Sadly, I do not know how to do that.

  • Cynthia Ratzke

    And are we going to see HUGE victory for Mr. HUGE. HIGHLY HUGELY?

  • benC

    The formulation I adhere to is : Follow the evidence,stick to facts and don`t let innuendoes distract you.
    Your point regarding the Illinois election fraud is well taken.It will certainly temper opinion on the subject.
    It is important to note ,however,that even in accepting that most politicians of both sides are sociopathic in nature,liars will tell the truth if the truth actually can serve them.Meaning that not all politicians need to lie all the time.
    Assuming that all politicians lie equally will keep you from noticing the ones that don`t need to lie all the time.
    Following the evidence and stick to facts helps to cut thru opinions and innuendoes,make you realize politics is neither black or white,nor just a shade of gray,its even more complex then that.

  • benC

    Alex ask yourself why would people whose entire line of thinking involves skepticism,the search for evidence and fact based thinking(scientists) be siding mostly with Democrats and largely shun the Republicans?
    Don`t get me wrong,you are right in saying that there are as many sociopaths one side as the other.But even habitual liars will tell the truth,when the truth is actually on their side.Why would they lie when the truth is actually to their advantage?Can you imagine a liar pleading guilty to a crime he didn`t just because he needed to lie?
    Scientists invented scepticism and made it the central part of their method of work,they are notorious nitpickers.It is far more likely that they support the dems because facts supports that side than them attacking republicans just because they(the scientists) happen to side with dems.

    “Since this shows that they are able, we can be sure that they are doing it regardless of whether we have proof.”
    No ,we can`t be sure.Thinking that way would get a lot of innocent people on death row(He could`ve commit this horrible act,therefore he is guilty!!Hang `em high!!!)
    That line of thinking is one huge fallacy.You need to be more evidence based or else,you`ll fall for a lot of very stupid conspiracy theories.Opinions and innuendoes are not facts.

  • Alex McConnell

    The facts do support it. The evidence might be circumstantial, but this isn’t a court of law, and overwhelming circumstantial evidence should be good enough for us.

  • Alex McConnell

    6% of scientists are Republican vs 55% Democrat. No doubt, the split among mathematicians is similar. It’s no surprise that more people who are capable of finding anomalies are looking into places where Republicans are favored. But it should be very, very obvious that this is about power and not left vs right. The vast majority of politicians on both sides of the aisle are sociopaths, and you can be certain that they are lying, cheating and stealing in any way they can to get and maintain their power, and that includes vote tampering. It’s understandable to be willing to vote for the side of sociopaths that promote views more closer to your own, but don’t think for a second that they’re actually good people who believe in those things. Occasionally they are, but those are very rare exceptions. It’s not a questions of whether they are WILLING to do this, it’s a question of if they are able, because they will definitely do it if they are able. Since this shows that they are able, we can be sure that they are doing it regardless of whether we have proof.

  • Alex McConnell

    The Democrats don’t pursue it because they’re doing the exact same thing in other states. This isn’t about Republican vs Democrat, it’s about establishment vs non-establishment.

  • RecreationalPilot

    .

    Where is the Tea Party? They were denied votes just like the Democrats were.

    .

  • Britam

    I’ll have a go quickly.
    Roughly, I think you’re positing that if Republican operatives manipulated the vote tally through their ownership of the electronic voting machines, as in the Diebold company, and if Democratic operatives manipulated the vote tally through ballot stuffing, as in the Daley organization in Illinois, that the two weren’t equivalent because the manipulations are of different methodologies. The crux of the matter is if we consider both Republican and Democratic politicians as members of the same class, “Politicians.”
    I am positing the rough equivalence of the two “brands” of politician because they fulfill equivalent functions.
    Tammany Hall, of Olde New York fame, comes to mind as a famous example of Democratic Party corrupt practices.
    I roughly adhere to the formulation; “Form follows function.”
    Today’s Democratic Party is not the FDR New Deal Democratic Party.
    Anyway, thanks for making me go deeper into my thinking on this.
    Cheers.

  • benC

    When we find election fraud in a democratic state,then and only then can we say both sides are doing it.Otherwise you are using a false equivalency.

  • Brian Harrington

    Huh? From: http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_boe/en-US/ElectionResults2012/Nov2012/amended/11062012FinalAmendedofficialResultsbyContest.HTM

    Barack Obama/Joe Biden (DEM) . . . . 447,273 69.32
    Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan (REP) . . . . 190,660 29.55

  • mikeywes

    I guess that the Dems have to get 55% of the true vote in order to win. Clever….very clever Repubs….but I think we are on to you

  • The GOP are masters of projection. If they are doing something wrong then the accusations come flying that the opposition is doing that. If they are failing to do something right – then they claim they did what the opposition actually did – or – barring that – they discredit the opposition – turning their strength into a weakness by swiftboating them.

    All standard GOP playbook.

  • godisvictorious

    no brainer; 150,000 registered republicans in cuyahoga county and not one vote counted for Romney; he rolled over and played dead and never challenged it. who shut him up?

  • John Michael Hutton

    Dems are very gutless IMO. I wouldn’t vote for them if the option weren’t so odious. I’m just not dumb enough to vote for a ReThuglican TeaBAgger. There is no such thing as a moderate ReThuglican. They are all batshit crazy conservatives of one degree or other but none of them are good for the USofA.

  • John Michael Hutton

    Huge contributor and I mean HUGE.

  • John Michael Hutton

    They are still looking for voter fraud by minorities just like they are looking for a scandal to meet the level of Watergate and their first treasonous president which was followed 15 years later by Reagan and 12 years later by Bushtard. Lets not even mention the war crimes that were committed by these stalwart conservative ReThugliTARDS. All of which has been conveniently forgotten by REThuglican TeaBaggers.

  • John Michael Hutton

    It seems that the only verifiable cases of voter fraud in the United States involves the fraud perpetrated by conservatives for ReThuglican candidates. How amazing is that. Another phony scandal concocted by the lunatic conservatives and believed by the idiots in this country whose attention span is less than that of a creme filled doughnut.

  • They’re all for rooting out every suspicion of a hint of voter fraud from minorities. Voter fraud from upstanding white Republicans, their voting systems, and their government administration of voting never happens.

  • Malaprop

    I said review. And in a corrupt scenario one person can sit and stamp the ballots all day. Even if the fingerprints were on file – which they are not.

    You’re nuts if you think corruption occurs in the light of day

  • Karen Clarke

    Duh. Most of the electronic voting machines are made by Diebold, which is a contributor to the Republican party.

  • solar_bullsh1t

    “My buddies”? See this is exactly what I am saying. It’s moronic shills like yourself that cause our system to be a failure and a mess. I never said what political affiliation I am, and I sure as hell would not call myself a republican.

    The two party system and your tribalism is so deeply engrained in your simple little mind that you constantly try to pit anything countering your opinions as “republican”. Grow a fucking brain.

    If you noticed in the examples I gave, but probably not because you seem to be too concerned with your manufactured villains, but many of those examples are things that both dems and republicans are guilty of…. I’ll break it down for your because you seem to have trouble with this.

    Lying to supreme court, both parties are guilty of… i.e. Bush and both Clintons.

    Making decisions based on monies donated, both parties are guilty of… i.e. nearly every president we have had in the past 20 years.

    Making deals that benefit certain companies and then working for those companies, both parties are guilty for…. i.e. take a look at any member of congress or senate.

    People like you are literally what both parties love, some mindless idiot that will yell at the “other side” whilst ignoring the larger problems in the government and never noticing how nothing ever really changes. You are cannon fodder to them.

  • Tony Demetriou

    Ed, you’re right, but there are ways around this.

    It’s possible to issue people an identification code and a password key, which allows them to add their vote into an encrypted “block” of everyone’s votes.

    Anyone can then look at that “block” and decrypt it to find out the total vote tally – but not which ID’s voted for which result.

    Anyone can use their ID and password key to check that their vote was included in the block, and what their result was.

    At that point, we’ve still got two things to worry about:

    1. Coercion and ID theft. What if I bully my wife into telling me her ID and password? This concern could possibly be reduced by allowing online voting for a week or two, then stopping the online voting, but allowing people to attend voting locations where they can sign in and update their vote. That way I wouldn’t be able to see what my wife is voting for, and she can override any vote I might have already entered for her. (But if I bully the password out of her, I could still verify her vote after the election and punish her.)

    2. Unknown IDs. Even if I can verify that my vote was counted correctly, and I can verify the total result – how do I know who the other voters were? Whoever is generating the IDs and pass keys could generate a few million extra ones, and cast votes with those. – We’d probably pick this up by counting the number of votes – but what is the expected number? With online home voting, if we suddenly get a few million extra votes, we’d claim that is a success. We could also publish the names and IDs of everyone who votes as a public list – that wouldn’t say who they voted for, only that they voted. That way we could verify the number of IDs on that list, and the number of votes in the encrypted block match. We could also verify that the ID on that list matches real people who did cast a vote.

    Oh, and since it’s mathematical encryption, the way it works is public, and any mathematicians can verify that it’s secure, and any developers can make their own software. So if you don’t trust the government’s middleware, you can use the software provided by your preferred party (who, presumably, wouldn’t have any motivation to falsify your vote, since you’re already voting for them) or the software provided by a human rights organization, your friendly programmer from down the street, or whatever. There would (and should) still be official software, for those who don’t want to accidentally use malware pretending to be voting software.

    … and new IDs and passwords could be issued every year, so even if someone does steal your information, it won’t help them in the long run (and you can manually verify that your vote wasn’t changed if you’re afraid of this happening)

    Still not perfect, but a lot better than what we currently have!

  • krisshanahan

    Absolutely true. The PUGS control the media.

  • krisshanahan

    It is time for people to quit trying the shove off all of the blame on to “everyone does it and the other guy is to blame”. No in this case it is the republicans, so quit trying to shift the blame to protect your buddies. They need to be held to account for a change! When the dems do something I hope you call them out too. Look around though, PUG money runs everything, especially in crooked Kansas. They run all of the media too. I have had it with the PUG crooks.

  • solar_bullsh1t

    You mean, other than the countless examples of both parties doing shady shit? Like lying to the supreme court, making decisions based on money they have been “donated”, making deals that benefit certain companies and then working for those companies, etc.. etc.. etc..

    The only party is the capitalist party, which all politicians are a part of, and the sooner you people realize that, the better.

  • Tim Anderson

    It’s not the votes that were legitimate that are the problem…it’s those who didn’t bother to vote, who left a blank on the registration form, who potentially had their vote cast for them after the election was over and between the time the machine was “sealed” and got transported to the county clerk’s office for official tabulation that makes me suspicious. You have the signatures of people on their registration card…you could fake the sign in sheet easily and just add time stamps and insert it anywhere in the day in the official electronic tally. And with a 34 percent turnout in 2014…that would be a LOT of voters or should I say “non-voters”.

  • Edward

    Yours is a lovely notion Leonid. Unfortunately, through the magic of front-end applications, and/or middle-wear, what one sees on the front-end, is not necessarily what it tabulated in the back-end database.

  • Frank Dash

    This is the tip of the iceberg, and it has been going on for years, ever since the early oughts. I really do not know why the Democrats have never pursued this, perhaps because they are afraid of being called kooks. 2004 was, of course, the most blatant election fraud ever, and the traitors who perpetrated it have never been brought to justice. She is not the first mathematician to sound the alarm, or to be ignored and shoved aside.

  • Leonid Barchai

    the only way to solve election fraud is to keep the results online and allow everyone to log in with a name and password they choose to be able to backcheck what their vote was recorded as, until this happens, were are accepting on faith something we have the technology to verify, but hey i am not a politician, to me it just seems like common sense tho

  • cirby

    On the other hand, it makes sense that you get better support for some candidates with an increase in population. There’s a very strong tendency for political parties to spend lot more money on higher-population areas. Per dollar, they get a major increase in bang for the buck in political spending.

    You also get more word of mouth (per dollar) in denser populations.

  • ronbo

    Please vote. If for nothing else, to piss off the people who think that they can control us by buying candidates from both major parties. Sorry Democrats, the 1% has perfected the art of manipulation brilliantly. Look how reactive voters instinctively run to support the DINOs Clinton when she is criticized in their bought-and-paid-for media.

    You can vote third-party or for good candidates like Sen. Sanders.

  • ronbo

    No. Your error is not understanding that the exit polls display disparity. On one hand, they are perfectly accurate on non-partisan issues like taxes. However, since moving to electronic voting, exit polls for candidates have become relatively unreliable. Logic and reason demands consistency of results.

  • smeezekitty

    The GOP IS doing it. But if you don’t think both sides are manipulating, you have the partisan wool over your eys

  • Britam

    Too true that. Although it fits too easily into the Latin American definition of ‘Desapericido,’ or one who has been made to disappear. Sometimes, a tin foil hat is an appropriate item of apparel.

  • Artist in Resonance

    … while others learn the difference between having something to say and having to say something.

  • Let’s not forget election ‘riggings’ as seen in the unequal distribution and maintenance/care of voting machines and voting places. In typical rich white suburbs, voting takes but a few minutes [I know, I live in one – never had to wait longer than 15 minutes, ever]. Inner city minorities and the poor wait for hours at times to place their votes. And no one needs to be reminded how a rich person can afford to take time off to vote – the working poor? Not so much.

    We all know the stories of how deliberate misinformation has been spread to confuse voters.

    And dirty tricks.

    In my State [NH] the Executive Director of the GOP was convicted a felony for colluding with Bush campaign operatives in 2002 to jam phones of the Manchester NH Fire Fighter’s Union who were working GOTV from poor sections [Democratic] of the city. Every single person in the upper levels of the Republican Party in NH knew about this scheme – there was one honest Republican who turned them in for it. ONE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_New_Hampshire_Senate_election_phone_jamming_scandal

    We need a National Holiday for voting at the polls. We need extended voting hours, and wider use of multi-day voting, mail in voting. I’m sure there are other suggestions to level the actual playing field when it comes to even getting that vote placed.

    And yes, Brad has done a fantastic job over the years cataloging the tampering with machines.

  • drmom5

    I remember a female speaker at Trenton Computer Fest years ago talking about blackboxvoting.org and paper verified trails.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Crash? No wreckage or human remains were ever found. Better call it a disappearance.

  • Danny Bowen

    I don’t vote, not because of some machine, but because I trust the machine more than I trust the options.

  • Danny Bowen

    Maybe we should just go with exit polls instead of votes then.. since you believe them to be so much more accurate.. exit polls have not historically been as accurate as you’d believe. besides, there are lies, damn lies, then statistics.

  • Britam

    It’s actually a shame that this Republican versus Democrat Kayfabe is so prevalent. Both “teams” benefit from the corruption embedded in our politics. Figure out a way to take the money out of the election cycle and then we’ll have a fighting chance.

  • Britam

    I’ll raise you a Hale Boggs twin engine plane crash.

  • Bryansix
  • hardwroc

    I would guess you are a Republican then. Just a hunch, but, that would explain how you believe something without facts to support it.

  • hardwroc

    And I’m saying, history shows us one party working in multiple ways to manipulate elections, and it’s the GOP.
    EVERY single example I’ve seen and read of, has been GOP in the last 20 years, with voter suppression, purging, polling place intimidation and voter caging, along with gerrymandering on a scale never before witnessed.

    The “both parties do it” is a cop out, when it’s inescapable to admit the GOP IS doing it, they hope to obfuscate by telling us both do it.
    Try to find an example of voter caging by the Democrats. Show me an example of Democrats using gerrymandering on a scale even remotely approaching that of the GOP, I will be shocked and amazed. Recent history has shown us a myriad of schemes used by the GOP to reduce the amount of voters, because they do best when turn out is LOWER. When Florida purged over 2500 LEGAL voters, and stand around grousing about “alleged” voter fraud on a grand scale, when the number recorded is measured at .0004%, you’ll see they are PLAYING the voters with a meme that taints the minds of voters into believing what they are telling, when facts do not support their story even a little bit.

  • hardwroc

    Look at Bernie Sanders, and see if you don’t see a “revolution” in his goals and efforts.

    I agree with almost everything he’s touched on, and it is different from the mainstream party line, of both parties. HE could be a game changer if elected, and supported by a strong majority in Congress. This could easily happen in 16, if we compare his platform with those of any other candidates, and with the displeasure with the current congress, new faces and a changing dynamic could also be on tap.
    I agree, working together we CAN make a difference now.

  • kiptw

    Because projection is the GOP’s ‘tell.’

    In their heart, they believe that whatever they can suspect, the other side’s already doing, so they’d better make up for lost time.

  • smeezekitty

    Where did I say it was *only* be democrats?
    All I am saying is both parties would happily manipulate the election system to get an advantage.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    I’ll see you a Paul Wellstone plane crash.

  • Birther 2.0

    Mike Connell plane crash.

  • Marko Knežević

    All of these suggestions are good, yes. The problem is obviously that when you can’t trust your government with paper voting, you can’t trust it with anything in digital form either.

    I guess one could go all the way digital if it required a lot of quality encryption. For instance, if it would be required to have a digital certificate (which would be issued to you personally by some other governmental entity) combined with some biometrics these processes would be very hard to dupe. Have each vote cast digitally signed and they could pretty much go fuck themselves collectively.

    In other words, I believe a good hanging is in order. Each country should hang their political leaders and bankers and thereafter start afresh. Even in smaller countries vote rigging is running rampant, there will always be some areas where shady deals are going to take place. Unless you hang the bastards.

  • I dream of a world where my kids can expect an A+ government. No torturing. No extraordinary rendition or coups in foreign nations. Prosperity. Egalitarianism.

    Sure the republicans suck. Definite F grade, and we can squabble about whether the Dems might deserve a D, it is still appalling. There is a force outside washington which definitely controls a majority of republicans… but they also control a majority of democrats… and the majority rules, which is why Carter recently said our democracy is gone.

    Go through the grief steps and then decide… Revolution, Constitutional Convention, or something else as drastic. We agree on 80% of what to change, so until we change it, the memes are going to be black vs white, rich vs. por, men vs woman, sis-normals vs lgbtnabc’s, christians vs muslims, democrats vs republicans.

    You’re my brother, and we have work to do.

  • reason > id

    because you’re not one of them?

  • hardwroc

    Yes, that was contained in his previous post, but apparently missed in the speed read of Ron Bo. He was talking about how simple worked in Iraq, as it did here for a couple hundred years. Let’s go high tech and use carbon back ballots so I get an EXACT copy of my ballot, which I could retain or even deposit for a SEPARATELY held verification of my vote. Both original and copy have a ballot number on them to make fakes more difficult to doctor or fake. The key here is PAPER, so a permanent record is made. Heck, make them crazy and use hemp paper, the GOP will go even more insane.

  • hardwroc

    They can sail with those guys that think OTHER countries are better for the companies. Move your company and you can pack your bags and go with it. Enjoy the air in China, and EVERYTHING in India, but a steak.

  • hardwroc

    But they sure can conger up some scary stories about it, from their own work in the field of skullduggery in elections.

  • hardwroc

    No, not at all. That would be covered by the voting rights act that clarified for those myopic enough to need the help. EVEN Alabama would have to give voting rights to all legal resident/citizens.

  • hardwroc

    Dang man, you are sounding like a Stephen King novel ! Stop even sharing that nightmare, other than as a warning .

  • hardwroc

    We won’t give it up quietly or passively from this point on.
    Bernie Sanders is calling them out on it daily, and gaining momentum as the Democratic candidate to challenge Hillary, exactly like Obama did. It’s looking very similar, and I hope to replicate the 07 campaign of Obama with Bernie Sanders as our Dem candidate in 16.

  • hardwroc

    Some PERFECT those traits and pass them down.

  • hardwroc

    A national voting day OFF, is an excellent idea, as many jobs make it impossible to get to your polling place, on a Tuesday. My former job with a utility required me at work before the polls opened and often past the time they close. It was a God send they went all mail in ballot. Nationally, since that hasn’t been adopted, to give the day off for voting would be a dramatic improvement in turn out. This means the GOP will be against it at all costs, fearing turn out as their Achilles Heel.

  • hardwroc

    This has been demonstrated a few times previously as well.
    There absolutely needs to be a paper trail, so we have record of our votes. I’d like a digital log at the polling place, so I could note I’d voted for MY candidate, and it’s registered in TWO places, separately stored and held in custody by a separate chain of command. IF these don’t match the outcome there needs by hell to pay for those managing the election.

  • hardwroc

    While I agree with most of your point, there is more than enough evidence to show GOP influence on the nation’s progress when Democrats are in office to afford them “credit/blame” for most of the outcome. This is the way it works when you block or kill 500 bills with filibusters, you get to own the results for the effort, and not then point out “ineffectiveness” for lack of accomplishments by the administration you obstructed.

  • patsijean

    Maybe so; let’s find out.

  • barada
  • barada

    The resemblance to trying to figure out if there is any shit in the sewers, is unintentional.

    This is becoming an age-old rule by now:”
    IOKIYAR.

  • ocschwar

    Your behavior would be embarrassing for a middle schooler.

  • hardwroc

    Feel free to example extreme gerrymandering such as that of the GOP affording them “victories” with half a million fewer votes.
    Show us examples of “voter caging” which voided thousands of military votes, and at the same time, accusing the Dems of such deeds while being done by the RNC.

  • Mary E. Tyner

    No doubt in my mind that Democrats are committing election fraud also!

  • archiebird

    http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10929 This guy KNOWS EVERYTHING about election fraud and has doggedly followed it and documented it for years. He pointed out the irregularities on Nov 7 2014…there is no absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind the R’s are stealing elections. Clarkson NEEDS to follow up on this and shine the biggest brightest spotlight as she possibly can on this fraud.

  • hardwroc

    And in states historically red for the most part. It’s like saying look, them cows are eating grass, and feeling triumphant about it.
    Watch in 2016 when blue states have their elections for governors and such, and the track record of the GOP is used to decide whether they would be a good choice for our nation’s leadership, after 8 years of endless obstruction and undermining the elected leadership we have now.
    And how proud they must be to have “won” office with half a million fewer votes, and redistricting their states 5 years earlier than normal, to arrange such a thing to happen.

  • I feel like we might be past the focusing on parties stage of all this. Maybe 90% of the republican party is sold out, and maybe it’s better in the democrats… but there are not enough honest democrats like Bernie and Dennis to save this.

    Congressional approval is between 10% to 20%. This is a multi party problem, and I feel like 80% of each party is willing to put aside our differences to just focus on cleaning house and reforming the whole election process… perhaps through a convention.

    It’s so screwed up…
    I’m Anti-war
    I’m pro-immigration
    I am very pro-local control over education
    I’m for a modest safety net
    I’m pro small business but I’m against huge collusive multinationals and cartels of all sorts.
    And I sure as hell don’t want a banking cartel to control our money or an oil cartel to control our energy…
    I want a balanced budget, because it is wrong to spend money which your children will have to repay. We’ve been screwing over our children for too long.
    None of my big issues ever gets addressed….

    … because Congress is bought.

    … and it doesn’t matter which party is in control. The main thing that needs fixed is the integrity and egalitarianism of our election process… campaigning to voting… and there will be no change until we force the issue through a convention.

  • hardwroc

    I think George was using the concept of “calling dibs” on the White House and Gore didn’t know that was good enough for the SCOTUS.

  • hardwroc

    And yet, oddly it’s the GOP that repeats the “voter fraud” charge by factor of thousands, against the Democrats, while doing it themselves.
    It is GOP candidates that “win” with fewer votes by hundreds of thousands, due to gerrymandering.
    You REALLY need some help finding your way to reality.

  • hardwroc

    Correct. It is either untrue, or the GOP has decided just to NOT bother prosecuting anyone for it, because they are so, uncaring about losing elections.

    ANYONE that thinks the GOP would NOT have prosecuted any and every example of voter fraud and made hay with it on the news for months, is a prize case of brain freeze where no cogent thought is possible.

  • hardwroc

    Make no mistake, it’s HIS legacy that is bringing us those Planned Parenthood videos right now today. The gullibles have learned NOTHING from the past exposures of the fraud perpetrated on America by his efforts and those of James O’Keefe.

  • hardwroc

    LOL, yes, that omitted coma totally makes the factual description of their corruption void in their minds.
    OR, they go to the “both sides do it” parachute. This is the tool of choice regarding climate change, where THOUSANDS of scientists tell us it’s real and getting worse, while a dozen, employed by energy extraction corporations deny it, and they feel that makes it a stand off of equal footing.

  • hardwroc

    Argh, that would take the wind outta one’s sails. Never mind professor. Although, I’m adding pig Latin to my language list, so to have 2.

  • hardwroc

    I don’t see “counting votes” as “voter fraud”.
    The GOP does.
    While I understand the frustration at multiple recounts, there is NO way it was done “only by Democrats”, to come to the conclusion they did. It really isn’t any surprise that the Democratic candidate won, since Washington is predominately blue,with the exception of eastern Washington, which is less densely populated and therefore has fewer votes.
    It didn’t help the GOP that their candidate was a weasel.

  • Her death is just numerically suspicious… and only greatly so because of the outright murder that preceded it.

    I would mention that a huge number of “conspiracy theories” have been found out to be true in the last 10 years. Yep… we had a secret war in Cambodia… Yep, we made up the charges for the Iraq war… Oh, there IS massive surveillance… Oh, the CDC and FDA are being bought off to bury studies? You don’t say?

    If you don’t think people will commit a few murders to win the American presidency, I just hope you never have a job keeping anything secure.

    I worked for you to look that up. You’re welcome.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    She died of a brain hemmorrhage. Does anybody other than Lyndon LaRouche see these conspiracies?

  • Also Steph Tubbs Jones… Brain-dead. They were contesting results and filing papers for Hillary.

  • Took me a bit to find it. Bill Gwatney.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Who was shot? I tried googling, but apparently I’m using the wrong search criteria.

  • Josh

    More gish galloping. I’ll leave you to your ignorant fantasy world.

  • Both parties cheat. Hillary got screwed in ’08. I detected vote manipulation in her primaries against O. Read about the saga of that whole shebang. One of the dudes who was scheduled to contest it… just had a guy walk into his office and shoot him in the chest before he could contest. That’s how that dispute failed to get contested… solved with lead.

    They both get an F. If you want to give republicans an F-, be my guest. Both are unacceptable.

    You are likely to feel that the current immigration policy is due to the warmth in Obama’s heart. It is to get more democratic voters, imho, which is a subversion of democratic principles.

    Politics is lies, and the horrible part about it is that I was championing a political party for ten years, trying to pick the lesser of two evils. I don’t recommend it. It causes insanity.

    The republicans are the party of Jefferson. They fought for the civil rights act. Parties, if they are really founded on moral principles, don’t flip-flop like that. That is a sign of wretched decay. Democrats were a bunch of racist southern union busters… then suddenly, they weren’t.

    It is madness.

    Stealing an election or manipulating some votes seems so minor compared to what either party has done once elected.

  • hardwroc

    Facts are facts, and the facts we KNOW are that the right is up to their eyeballs in gaming elections.
    Voter suppression.
    Voter caging.
    Voter intimidation.
    Voter purges.
    And voting machines owned by people that strongly support the GOP.
    And maybe you forgot the Fla election of 2000?

    The one where the SoS was also the chairman of the GOP election committee, and played every gambit she could to change the outcome of the election. And the same thing in Ohio, where they under equipped precincts that were historically blue, and had people standing in the rain for HOURS and closed before all could vote.
    In Florida they removed access to restrooms where lines were HOURS long, set up auto “safety checks” near polls which made it a gauntlet to vote if your car was not up to snuff to pass their “inspection”, and other game playing that suppressed the vote.

    Feel free to list those that Democrats did, but you’ll need to cite actual facts and not the list of accusations without supporting facts, like indictments, convictions or trials.

  • Jahfry

    Thank you Jon and all others following this story and keeping it in the public eye as much as the public will pay attention. I wrote up my thoughts in a post way too long to spam a comment section here with some additional links and anecdotal notes from things I saw friends posting during the election (I left Kansas in 1990 and had many opportunities to return, with interest so I could see friends there more often … but just can’t convince myself). https://www.facebook.com/geoff.baysinger/posts/10153157417660838

  • hardwroc

    And last I knew, all the voting machine companies were sympathetic to right wing politics, and strong supporters of the GOP.
    NOT something that invigorates trust in the process at all. NOR does the fact that many precincts with long time blue demographics all swung right in 2000 and 2004,by the same 10% margins. Nothing fishy there, even when exit polls showed they voted the standard stereotypical blue, yet resulted in a red victory.

  • hardwroc

    And I recommend Bernie Sanders as our champion regarding that inequality so glaringly obvious to those of us that work for a living, are retired or sick, injured and unable to be born into a wealthy family so to have our lives set for us before we can walk.
    If you like the concept of healthcare, schooling, living wages, and honesty in government, it’s time for Bernie.

  • hardwroc

    Joseph, nope, by comparison, the Dems are as pure as the Pope, and the
    GOP has been pulling multiple shenanigans for decades.
    The fact I can recite a string of “issues” with elections on the GOP actions that got us GW Bush, in multiple states, voter caging of military votes, and suppression efforts at polling places in many states, while the GOP can only make accusations of “voter fraud” without any cases to cite, charges placed against perpetrators or convictions of said charges, pretty much voids the last bastion of deflection by the right, that “they both do it”. NO, they do NOT.
    Just a short list, 2500 LEGAL voters purged in FLA, while the GOP tries to assert Obama won only by way of “voter fraud”, when the highest number of reported cases of fraud was under 200 nationwide. Take 200 away from 2500, and you get 2300 votes denied , that were all “likely” Democratic votes. That amounts to deliberate ELECTION fraud, by the GOP.
    Add in the military voter caging scam and you’ve got thousands of votes screwed with by the GOP, and then they use the feeble “voter fraud” charge their minions will eat up like candy.
    I’ll give you this Joseph, they BOTH breath air, and in that vain, they are “the same”. That is where they depart company and go separate ways.

  • hardwroc

    And we know what the right wing “sees”, WMD’s and hoards of murderous, rapist Mexicans strolling across the border through the “open gates” that Obama mandated be cast open, because, ‘Murica. They also see that “Obama has destroyed America” after getting it in such fine shape, and taking it to where it is now.

    It’s an astounding level of dyslexic thought processing or mental disease of some kind.

  • hardwroc

    The ever trustworthy and fair and balanced FAUX noose.

  • hardwroc

    Denis, IF such things had actually happened in anywhere NEAR the numbers the GOP touts, WHY did they not file charges and prosecute? They seem eager to “investigate and make cases about imaginary issues”, so why not all those “actual” cases of “voter fraud”? Funny, there are only a very small number of reported cases across the nation, yet they pose it as an epidemic. The fact is, Fla “purged” more LEGAL voters than all reported cases of “voter fraud” by a factor of 1000. And that is just one state. If you care, you will need to add those military votes the RNC “caged” by a scam, sending letters from the RNC to the HOMES of deployed military, marked “do not forward”, which contained a statement that failure to respond would lead to their votes being challenged and voided. How many families do you think failed to forward what appeared to be political junk mail, and had their soldiers votes voided by the scam? And even worse, is the GOP then attacked and accused the Democratic party of blocking military votes, while it was THEM doing it. You really need to look into the cheating, scheming , plotting GOP for what they are, crooks.

  • hardwroc

    Actually Josh, I was old enough to care about the Vietnam war, both from my home, and from Danang, Vietnam.

    The fact that Bush started planning an Iraq war BEFORE the 911 attacks, then tried to conflate Iraq and Al Queda, 911, imaginary nuke capabilities, and more fiction to goad the world into the war, shows ME it was not based on facts they presented. EVEN Tony Blair admitted that “Bush wanted to go to war and all they could do is try to find a rationale for it. Your attempt to show the entire Congress “supported it”, is turning a blind eye to the blackmail and extortion used by the right to put that together, calling anyone that suggested using logic or restraint cowards, terrorists lovers, weak, etc. The fact is, there were no facts to support invading Iraq and it was PREDICTED by GHW Bush that removing Saddam would result in rampant religious violence and guess what, ISIS ! And the only right to privacy the GOP is eager for is hiding their donors. You remember those, the ones that the GOP has fought so hard to hide for years now, while acting “outraged” that Clinton has a Foundation and attempting to paint “hers” as an evil influence, while theirs are “fine, just fine”. And who was it exactly that passed the “Citizens United” law? I believe you’ll find that was conservatives, and using unlimited money from completely unknown sources for their political purposes.
    You have NOTHING to stand on that equates to moral high ground pard.

  • Josh

    Again, I’ve said later in the thread, the point of my comments was to establish that we went to war for *reasons*….not because of a presumption of guilt. Whether or not those reasons were good, or whether or not they panned out is a separate issue, and is in fact no material to the question of WHY we went to war.

  • FMHenry

    The voters need to have their “30 Full Voting Rights”…!!!??? Our country is 239 years old and so far
    NO voter in all 50 states has their 30 full voting rights. With the rights in place the concerns of this
    post will become history.

  • FMHenry

    Also, an increase in Republicans could be a show of the voters disfavor of Democrats…..but,
    voters will become tired of Republicans and start putting Dems back in office….

  • Glorrierose2

    This is one of the reasons I get pissed off when people blame the voters of any given state for what the politicians are doing. I sincerely doubt that people are anywhere near as stupid as the fraudulent voting results suggest.

  • Joe Downey

    John you stole my idea except you strip the Employer of all assets his or her American Citizenship and then Deport them

  • Joe Downey

    david don’t bogart that joint my friend Hopefully in 2018 the Dems will ask Clinton Bill and Barack to get out the vote maybe a newsclip of Nazi Germany of 1933 “THEY FAILED to VOTE O N C E !!! Never Again

  • Rick Carufel

    The republican’ts own the voting machine companies so you know they are rigged.

  • krisshanahan

    Not that simple. Mostly Republicans at work.

  • OneWon

    The REAL election fraud is false political advertising and political broadcasting like talk radio and Fox News. Millions of people are tricked into voting against their own interests.

  • David McInnis

    Congress was fed faulty intelligence. Even Bush43 supposedly ignored, or wasn’t much interested in, reports that Osama bin Laden, whose family had done business with the Carlyle Group, on whose board sat Bush41 for years, was planning something. So let’s attack Iraq. Makes sense.

    If you happened to watch the debate, Chris Christie defended the NSA’s surveillance of US citizens. I’m a Democrat and I hold my privacy as sacred. Yours, too. I go about my daily business without expectation of being constantly watched, as should you. I’m no more a fan of George Orwell’s foreboding Big Brother than you are.

    I’d give you a lecture on the fallacy of sweeping generalizations, but, whether or not there’s basis for it, you used the word ‘generally’ as opposed to ‘all,’ but it still is borderline.

  • Kurt Davidson

    …that people like John fall down a flight of stairs and break their neck.

  • Maerzie

    My vote in the Walker RECALL election had been flipped from Barrett to Walker. I did get help to change it after I noticed it, but, how many other voters DIDN’T notice. Nobody bothers to “fix” only ONE machine, in only ONE precinct, to flip only ONE person’s vote!

  • Artist in Resonance

    That is correct.., You assume you have to make or show Human Beings how to do the right thing. Never assume malice on their part but never assume competence either. You often will encounter varying degrees of competence when dealing with the Human Beings, but it is unwise to presume you will.

  • Joe_Buddha

    I’ve been coding for over forty years. I could gimmick these things in such a way that you wouldn’t be able to tell without extensive analysis. The analysis would be really tough. The gimmicking? Not so much.

  • ronbo

    This might explain how “exit polls” are consistently wrong on candidates but are 100% accurate on initiatives. That inconsistency alone should be alarming. Hopefully her attempts will spread the need for national investigations.

  • Sandra

    Thanks. Have a good weekend!

  • stuff

    You are correct – I misread your post. Have an up vote.

  • cameramandavid

    He would, but we’d all laugh when the links come from Breitbart, TheBlaze, Alex Jones, HotAir and Drudge…

  • Sandra

    The point is not that they were homeless, but that it’s not believable that that fraud could be committed by picking up homeless and paying them to vote. It’s highly unlikely they would be registered to vote where they were wandering about. Denis has been fooled by lies about fraud, probably from conservative media. The Republicans get their base all riled up over non-existent “fraud” when the only real fraud is perpetrated by them. It’s sad someone would be gullible enough to believe you could just pick up whoever you want and pay them to vote.

  • stuff

    You are very very correct. Our single member district winner take all system will always result in two parties. See duverger’s law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law

  • stuff

    Voting is a right – not only for those with homes. Requiring someone to have a home to vote is one step away form requiring that voters own property. We got rid of that requirement in 18th century.

  • stuff

    Giving rides to the polls has always been a mainstay of GOTV efforts (Get out the Vote). Reps election day activities involve voter suppression so naturally they think its odd when vans full of voters pull up.

  • Bymynishus

    Well, that and licensing fees. Everything has to be a recurring service these days. It’s too much effort to constantly innovate in the face of competition.

  • Andy_Lewis

    The Iraq war was a good idea, you say? You ain’t got 2 brain cells to rub together, do ya?

  • Sweetpeace

    You’d think valid voting would be worth the bother of paper ballots, marked by hand, providing an encrypted receipt, and counted in public, on a national voting holiday that starts on a Friday morning and ends the following Tuesday morning, with the count taking however long it takes to get it done and so that any citizen can enter their assigned counting site and present their receipt in order to verify their own ballot. Sometimes “easier” is just a sham. Important things are worth the trouble it takes to accomplish them right.

  • John Huntsman

    One can only hope.

  • Petronius_Arbiter_II

    Moxieman, you’re quite incorrect about constitutional law. What you say is only true of the original Constitution without amendments. But several of the amendments, particularly the 14th, address issues concerning voting, and allow the federal government a certain latitude in correcting errors by state and local governments.

    Bush v. Gore may have been one of the worst Supreme Court decisions ever, but it was a case the court DID have the right to address.

  • cameramandavid

    Sadly, no… because if the Republicans win, (cheating/apathy/legally, doesn’t matter), they will be hard at work setting up either a 6-3 (or worse 7-2) Conservative Majority in the Supreme Court (which is only the final arbiter when it suits THEIR agenda, like Bush v. Gore, or Citizens United)…

    In 2018, the Democrats will have their usual lazy turn out for midterm elections, and the Republicans will add to their majorities in both houses… and by 2020 we’ll see the re-election of Jeb, and a bulletproof, fillibusterproof majority in both houses… there will be widespread vote hacking to ensure a GOP Landslide, and the Conservative Supreme Court will make sure nobody gets punished…
    .
    finally, in 2022, the GOP will use their control, and the 2020 Census to essentially gerrymander the Democratic Party out of existence…

    All the while, our children will be ground to pieces in endless war against both Iran and ISIL…
    (invest in War Profiteer companies NOW, kiddies… then maybe you can be on the side that sends other people’s kids to war…)…

  • Josh

    A little education for you, and why replying to you is futile: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

  • Right, so if states are cheating, how equal is that?

  • Dave Carter

    That’s a good way to attack the person instead of their points. Which is a valid response when you’re so painfully wrong and ignorant you can’t even string together a cohesive argument to defend your patently false claims. Run back to your fox news echo chamber.

  • leftofabbie

    Here’s the lesson from this article: When requesting information that must be responded to within an established time frame (e.g., 30 days of receipt) from the government, send the request by REGISTERED MAIL/Return Receipt Requested. The office that receives the request has to sign for receiving the piece of mail, and you get the card back with info of person who signed and the date. Then if they try to blow you off, you have proof that they did indeed receive the request.

  • Josh

    No, it’d not argument from the majority. Don’t move the goal posts. It was claimed the entire war was based on “an assumption of guilt” and I simply demonstrated that was a false statement. Since the OP’s entire point was based on this false assumption, I’ve won this debate and this sub thread is over.

    If instead my goal had been to justify whether or not it was a good idea to invade Iraq, then your criticism would be valid. But then again, I wouldn’t have made that argument in that case.

  • Josh

    So much fail in your reply. Cant…set…an…idiot…straight….obviousgish gallop…..must go do something productive. ….I’m out.

  • solar_bullsh1t

    Republican, Democrat. At the end of the day they only give a shit about your vote and their wallet. It’s brainless shillism like this that perpetuates our failed system. But hey at least you have a manufactured “bad guy” to point at, and with the education level of most Americans, that’s all they will ever need.

  • Dave Carter

    “As for the other comment, the Patriot Act only removes due process for
    non-Citizens. And no one ever said the ridiculous straw man arguments
    you are presenting. Conservatives are FOR privacy rights. It’s Democrats
    who are generally against them.”

    It’s so sad how often this blatantly false trope is trotted out by conservatives. It’s funny how you made the distinction between conservatives and republicans, but then paint all democrats with the same brush. Let me ask you something. Is it MSNBC or Fox news that is pushing the “police are always right” narrative? Is it Air America that thinks you should just do what ever the police tell you? Was it in the guardian that I read how all those plainly illegal police shootings racial profiling, and domestic spying is ok? I forgot the part where Michael Moore called for Snowden to be shot as a traitor for showing our government is spying on us. Does Rush Limbaugh speak out about institutional racism or profiling and how that limits our freedom and privacy? Just because you don’t like the skin color of the president doesn’t change the fact that our rights have been eroded by a largely republican almost exclusively conservative congress, mostly conservative supreme court, and extremely conservative executive branch. If you think it’s generally liberals that are against privacy, you don’t have as firm a grip on the facts as you think.

    These spying programs, and these terribly unsustainable, illegal and unpaid for wars were started by your heroes in with lies and nothing else.

  • drklassen

    Tell that to the SCOTUS when the decided Bush v. Gore.

  • Dave Carter

    Funny, republicans wanted to adopt them for the same reasons…

  • Dave Carter

    The voting rights act was a direct response to actions like this. The feds knew that left to their own devices that places like Kentucky and Missouri would never allow a black vote. The feds had to step in to make sure that all people were being treated equally under the law, including the establishment of basic rights like voting and speech. The equal protection clause of the constitution dictates that all people be treated equally by all laws, including voting laws. That’s why even up to a few years ago, many southern states were monitored at the federal level because the states have a history of trying to not allow black and minority voters to vote.

  • PattyJM

    I wish that you were wrong. Unfortunately you are not.

    Our America is dead. Its been bought and paid for by the mulitbillionaires.

    RIP USA

  • Free_Humanity

    “17-18 reasons provided for the war, all of them pretty good.”

    Sure, if you conveniently overlook that most of them were fabrications and exaggerations without which there would not have been the political will to go along with it.

    “An overwhelming majority in the world thought it was a good idea.”

    No, that is quite blatantly not remotely true whatsoever. Not to mention: argumentum ad populum.

    “the Patriot act only removes due process for non-Citizens”

    The relevant clause of the 5th Amendment reads:

    “No person shall be…deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”

    That’s ALL persons, not JUST citizens.

  • Jack Kelly

    No, not a right wing fringe site as a source please. Get real facts, you know those facts are funny and somehow people use real facts for knowledge. Try it.

  • Actually Man of the Year predates Scandal on the election fraud storyline. Very good movie.

  • NO Republican would EVER agree. That would be like trying to prevent illegal immigration by throwing bosses who hired them in jail.

  • IRRELEVANT! If the losers in the GOP crash and burn that is their own damned fault. And if you think some other party would not quickly replace them you are ignorant of the history of the Whigs.

  • xnerd

    You r a fucking mental case that shit was debunked 3 days after the fucking election derp

  • David Harmon

    Yeah, because a one party system doesn’t sound like some fascist dictatorship.

  • gozounlimited

    Why 2/3rds of the country don’t vote….. it’s a scam obvious to most who pay attention.

  • theallseeingmaster .

    Voting by electronic scanner leaves me feeling that my vote will never again count so I have stopped voting. The Republic is dead.

  • Brenda

    With the turn out coming up in 2016, it’ll be clear if cheating is going on, and if the Republicans are caught, till will be the end of that party once and for all!

  • So even if a state is clearly cheating, nothing could be done about it? They could just pretty much admit to it, and say “too bad?”

    Wouldn’t this also make the voting rights act unconstitutional? To have any national standards at all? Like, if Alabama decides that only white men are allowed to vote, that would be their state’s right?

  • Marko Knežević

    I believe OGIS there is talking about Iraq election, not about machine rigging.

  • moxieman

    No, according to the constitution voting is a state responsibility, the federal government has no say in how voting is conducted, counted etc. which is why it was such a big deal when scotus ruled in the Gore/Bush election. They had no legal authority to do so.

  • Josh

    No, not exactly. Were you even old enough to care when we started the Iraq war? There were I believe 17-18 reasons provided for the war, all of them pretty good. It was approved by nearly all of Congress. It was approved by the U.N. It was approved by public opinion. Don’t go trying to rewrite history now. An overwhelming majority in the world thought it was a good idea, because it was. And it was.

    As for the other comment, the Patriot Act only removes due process for non-Citizens. And no one ever said the ridiculous straw man arguments you are presenting. Conservatives are FOR privacy rights. It’s Democrats who are generally against them.

  • Ron Bo

    If the software in the voting machine is compromised, then:
    poll watchers don’t matter
    you can tally the number of votes as often as you want, the machine is providing the numbers
    you can send those numbers in an armored truck to central, it doesn’t matter because:
    the machine at the polling place, the one that provides you that paper print out of “at 10:03 am a vote was recorded for X” has already gamed the result in the software.
    That’s the beauty of this hack.
    And there is solid statistical evidence – math doesn’t lie. A very evident weighting of results, only in places that use these machines. Do you think math is trolling you?

  • Shouldn’t this be investigated at the federal level? Of course they’re going to keep shutting people down at the grassroots level, but if the Obama administration were to look into it, I don’t think it would be that easy.

  • JonRobin

    Voting machine fixing ehh? Sounds like hollywood has beat you to it with the storyline in “Scandal”.

  • ted

    Kind of ironic that the GOP has been wailing about the rampant voter fraud (estimated at 0.0004% by a bipartisan study) so they disenfranchised millions of voters (mostly blacks that wouldn’t vote for them anyway); when they are the ones that have been caught electronically stuffing the ballot box time and time again! There was the case of Bush receiving 10x the number of votes in a precinct in Indiana than there were registered voters, a case in a Florida where Gore got a NEGATIVE 600 votes (how the hell do you do that???) and IT guys all over the country saying they found the Diebold machines were rigged with programming that over counted Republican votes and undercounted Democrat votes. When the Plutocrats are so intent on turning our form of government into an Oligarchy it’s time to shove those ballots up their ass and resort to bullets to rid our country of the treasonous bastards!

  • OGIS

    Easy to check. Just have some guy with a swab dipped in an alcohol/soap/naptha swipe each mark as they get their ballots.

  • usmale475

    Republicans only care if its democrats that do voter fraud but that never happens its always republicans

  • OGIS

    All the analysis and news stories I read stated that all the major parties had representatives at every polling place, watching for shenanigans. And the counts and DUPLICATE mandatory recounts (i.e.: three counts) were done at each polling location, with duplicate result tallies given to each poll watcher for independent delivery to the central election control… where MORE watchers from each party independently added everything up.

    Of course, there might have been some grand conspiracy with the Illuminati Reptilicans from Sirius wearing their human masks and messing with the results, but you can’t guard against everything.

    (Yes, that last was sarcasm. Begone, Troll! Shoo!)

  • Sandra

    Sure, all those homeless people were able to vote, because they were registered voters even though they didn’t know their polling place. And you know that’s so because Rush whispered it to you. Or (fill in the blank with your own hate-monger).

  • OGIS

    During the Iraq elections, voters were required to show both hands to official representatives of all parties who were at each polling station. Sounds fairly foolproof to me.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a817fabe8febee57b7372a48e229af41ea49d2d6914dae5bfcf5ba91de307b66.jpg

  • jcdyer3

    The (first) Iraq election also had serious issues when particular districts (more favorable to American interests) “accidentally” got washable ink instead of the indelible stuff. The system is simple, but also easy to game.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    I was replying to Denis Deeborn. I don’t see where he or she supported their outlandish claim.

  • Malaprop

    Like you could identify a ink stain thumb print in any review?

    All the stain does is prevent voting at another site by an average citizen.

  • xboxershorts

    Eating your own feces again I see

  • xboxershorts

    What’s really funny is in the actual published research paper it’s ONLY republican establishment candidates who’ve benefited from the impossible statistical anomaly.

  • Ron Bo

    Not really. Quite simple to:
    1, Toss out some ballots
    2. Add some ballots
    3. Substitute some ballots with changed ones

    What you need is a paper trail that doesn’t get touched until you do a recount, and then are handled under a bipartisan group and with heavy security. Local county officials generally all come from one party and are local partisan hacks.

  • OGIS

    The Iraq model is genius in its simplicity:
    (1) when you vote, you get your thumb painted with indelible purple ink that wears off in a week. This prevents multiple voting.
    (2) The votes are on paper ballots, stuffed in sealed cans under the watchful eyes of precinct wardens from all concerned parties.
    (3) The votes are counted by hand, again under the watchful eyes of precinct wardens from all concerned parties.

    The KISS principle. It works.

  • habeas corpus

    Crooks gon crook, sheeple gon sheeple…we can try to remain United -or- keep being wedged apart for whatever dumbass reason. Whose responsibility is it to hold domestic tyrants accountable? Party leaders? Internet comments? This police action is under offical internal review.

  • krisshanahan

    Yes, democrats and all the people are way to trusting and don’t know how very bad it really is.

  • JSPA

    Nationally, that’s the way it skews. Locally, there are pockets (and I’m in one, in Pittsburgh) where the establishment D’s are the ones who forced in e-voting. To be fair, the establishment D’s who did it here were not particularly “left,” especially on any social or “progressive” type issues. In a redder state, the same guys (and they were all guys!) would likely also have been in power, running as R’s.

  • LivinginVA

    Your proof?

  • JSPA

    Links?

    I’ve volunteered as a driver, BTW. People who could not walk the few blocks (age, sickness, injury) requested rides from their house (where we picked them up, in our own cars or vans) to their polling place–and back. We didn’t ask for their party registration, either, nor did we talk politics in the car. Yes, ACORN was one of the groups referring people. Presumably you don’t think that ACORN sets up hundreds of duplicate houses for old ladies in each county, and provides each with 70 years worth of family photos. Nevertheless, when I drove up with a car full of 5 people–in some cases, the same people I’d registered to vote, 6 months prior–there were goons at the polls (R’s and D’s) saying, “see, they’re trucking in people from who knows where.” (“Who knows where” was a hillside neighborhood less than a quarter mile away, up a steep, small road with no sidewalk). What people see, and what they THINK they see, are simply not the same thing.

  • JSPA

    Nah, I live in SW PA, where it’s the Dems who brought in the e-voting machines, and made sure the lever machines were scrapped ASAP. I’m not happy about anyone, D or R, setting up a situation where the party in power can game the system. I’m also not happy about anyone, D or R, being so short-sighted that they’re more interested in a lucrative new machine contract, and a scrap metal windfall, than they are in really understanding the risks of e-voting. That said, I am mildly sympathetic to the county realizing that, with aging election board members, setting up and taking down the massive old lever machines had become arduous, verging on hazardous.

  • JSPA

    Not to discount the possibility of election fraud, but people have been voting against their economic interests (be it based on wishful thinking, philosophy, psychosocial group identification factors, fearmongering, etc) for a very long time…far longer than electronic (or even electric) voting machines have existed.

  • Annette Magjuka

    Every time I vote in Indiana, I ask for a paper record so I can see that the vote I cast on the computer is what I intended. They say, “We don’t have a paper trail.” I say, “So I just have to trust that machine?” They say, “Yes.” Indiana is a die-hard GOP state with many people “voting against their own economic interests.” Connect the dots, people!

  • hardwroc

    Um, Josh, that is EXACTLY the tone they used when they set the Patriot act, and telling us only those that are guilty would be upset at the intrusion into our privacy. In fact they had an entire war based upon assuming guilt and caring not a whiff whether they were right or not, using our sons and daughters in their ill conceived plan.

  • smeezekitty

    I was on mobile and autocorrect was being stupid. It added the apostrophe to “Republicans” for some reason. I suppose I should have put an apostrophe after “parties” but it is a bit of a pain on a touchscreen. That’s a pretty petty thing to point out since my post is 100% readable regardless of the apostrophes.

  • I’m kinda conservative. I caucused for Ron Paul last time.Democrats cheat. Republicans cheat.

  • Joseph Hammer

    The linked study should be enough. It’s pretty well written, and it is well sourced so you can check the data.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    No, many of us don’t believe Democrats care much about us. We do know that many women, Latinos, African Americans, and LGBT folk know they would be a lot worse off with Republicans. I’m probably not thinking of all the groups that might feel the same way.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    That is bad. Would you please provide links to those stories?

  • RubyB

    Ireland scrapped electronic voting machines after only one election because they are so easy to hack:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/0426/pencils-not-pixels-ireland-scuttles-electronic-voting-machines

  • sukabi

    Election fraud, not vote fraud

  • Rene Horn

    Did you mean proprietary? Because if so, then I would agree.

  • Josh

    No.

  • krisshanahan

    The left is not doing this – It is the right wing that is doing this so quit this everyone is guilty false bs. Take responsibility for ONCE, the GOPers are the ones doing this mischief and a lot more mischief. FACE it for a change instead of making up wishful defenses for having been a fool to these crooks.

  • mike112769

    Oh. My. Gawd. It’s started. The poor people are tired of being screwed, and someone does not like it. Both major parties are major tools. The fact is though that poor people are better off with democrats in power. You can get mad all you want, but that won’t help anything or anyone. We have more empty houses than we do homeless people. Please look at what Utah did. The results are impressive. If trickle-down economics worked, we would all be swimming in money. It does not work, but most politicians, on both sides, owe their seats to their campaign donors. The rich, mainly republican, politicians are happy with flat and stagnant wages for tne workers, while the CEOs of these companies are making record profits. The next trouble in America won’t be about race, it will be about the blatant, in-your-face inequality. I apologize for rambling on. I’m very tired. Peace.

  • qcubed

    It is very easy for people to claim anything. THIS study uses science, bitch, and is far more trustworthy than the assertions YOU make, with no facts to back them up.

  • Denis Deeborn

    Hmm, I wonder if you are as vocal about the people who went on public TV telling America how they voted for Ayatollah Obama using dead relatives names, relatives who didn’t even go out and vote and the fact that ACORN handed out $50 bills to homeless people and drove them around to vote machines in 8 different counties to vote for your messiah Ayatollah Obama……………but you keep on eating the liberal bigot cheese…………..you already have the face for it.

  • AJ

    If we as citizens were allowed to use the excuses the police and other govt officials use then no one would be in jail. Oh I shot that person, well I feared for my life. Oh I owed taxes? I totally just forgot. Hey, what’s that a court date. Oh jeez the summons slipped behind my desk and I forgot, free pass right?

  • ThaBob

    Love how those of you on the left want to believe only the right has dirty tricks, you idiots actually still believe the dems give a crap about you dont you?

  • ThaBob

    Yes its only the right who is shady, guess it makes it easier for everyone to look at the right as the big boogeyman while the left is so righteous, they have done a great job of making up a lie and the public swallowing it no questions asked.

  • Tyler

    Exactly, I like how they even admit to having it too but somehow they didn’t “realize” it.

  • butcher99

    The question remains, if there is no election fraud going on why can they not get the tapes to compare?
    Hopefully there is no fraud going on. Probably isn’t. But would you not like to know for sure ?
    It is the right that keeps going on about voter fraud, which just does not happen and if it did it would be on both sides not just one. It is the right that continually keeps making statements about how shutting down people who might vote Democrat is going to win them states. It is the right that currently is gerrymandering election boundaries to sway elections their way. Notice I said currently. It is the right that is fighting in courts to overturn decisions that said that these gerrymandered regions need be looked at.
    No side is lily white here, but would you not like to know for sure that it was not happening and that your side is not doing it? I am willing to take that chance just to know that the vote is as fair as possible.
    There are people out there on both sides for whom winning is not just the thing it is the only thing.

  • The_Random_Sample

    Let’s see, someone is challenging the system used to elect people to political office, and people who have been elected by that system are resisting – what a surprise! Isn’t it the conservatives who are always poo-pooing the rights of criminal defendants to lawyers, saying “if they’re not guilty, what do they have to fear?”

  • Philip Riley

    We like you too!

  • exbert

    I’m going to try that excuse the next time I receive a jury summons.

  • wehiird

    I like you people!

  • Simon Pender

    Why comment before you actually think about (or in fact bother to read) what you’re responding to?

    You came here looking to be on the pro-military side of an argument, nice try attempt at creating one here. Here’s a direct quote from the post you replied too:

    “Add voting booths in major businesses and other vital places that can’t
    give workers the time off or where people can’t make it to the polling
    stations like hospitals.”

    So did you not bother to read, or are you just so stupid that you can’t see that military bases would very very very obviously fit into this. Good lord.

  • stuff

    Nothing the government buys or rents from a private corporation should be ‘Propitiatory’. In an unrelated news story local police depts are using something called a ‘stingray’ to collect private cell phone communications without a warrant but wont talk about because the tech is ‘propitiatory’ https://www.aclu.org/map/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them

  • stuff

    Voter ID’s are part of their plan to rig the election.

  • stuff

    Also voting is a right – not a right for only those with a photo id, nor only for those can afford one.

    Do you not have to verify your identity when you register – yeah you do.

    In order to commit in person voter fraud you’d have to register a pseudonym or dead person than go to polls months later and claim you were that person. Most ‘fraudulent’ registrations are either mistakes, someone died, or some kid working for a registration drive made people up to get a larger paycheck. In all of those cases the person intending to commit voter fraud would have to be aware of those registrations.

    The most nefarious thing about voter ID is it sounds reasonable until you realize its not about whether the person has an ID its about whether they have the right kind of ID.

    Poll taxes and Literacy tests sounded as reasonable. It costs money to hold an election surly states should be able to recoup the money. Of course you should be able to read before voting. But like voter IDs that’s not what they were for.

  • stuff

    Or you could be slagging someone with dyslexia which is not unlike poking fun at dude confined to a wheel chair for not having usable legs.

    I leave the grammar policing to conservatives who use it as a predictable retort when losing an argument

  • Rafael Espericueta

    Some landslide… thanks to those rigged voting machines.

  • Rafael Espericueta

    Propitiatory software for voting machines guarantees election fraud. Is this so difficult to understand? No, it’s obvious. This must be well known to the powers that be, who must block any investigations into the fraud, in order that the fraud be allowed to continue.

  • JonHain

    Part of the problem in Ohio (see Witness to a Crime for evidence) is that the “random” precincts were known in advance by the county level people rigging the election. Those precincts were kept clean. We need to go to paper ballots, counted in public at the polling places if we want accurate elections.

  • Joseph Hammer

    Last time I Grammar Nazi’d someone, it turned out to be a professor in the Ukraine, and English was his 12th language =P. Careful, there.

  • Joseph Hammer

    You are a master of understatement. The only reason a country would allow something as simple as the source for a voting machine to be kept secret is to allow it to be manipulated. You should have NO trust in closed source voting machines :).

  • Bymynishus

    Was it a verified recount with bi-partisan monitors?

  • Bymynishus

    Open source voting software and regular machine audits would be somewhat more trustable vs. closed source machines.

  • Joseph Hammer

    Republicans shit on Republicans, too… This is the Mainstream Neo-Cons in control. They cheated Ron Paul out of the primaries with the same crap: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=F9BB53CA1C0AA3CA%211719
    If you’re into statistics, this one is a doozy.

  • Mister Wirez

    Bush/Bush’s Brain, stole both elections compliments of Diebold, Scotus, and the Jebeneezer.

    You would think the D’s running against would have fingered this out by now.??

  • Mister Wirez

    Oh, for shts sake… That’s devious.

  • Joseph Hammer

    Well… at least we’re talking about vote fraud now. We have one of the sloppier election systems in the world… 100 years ago, we had one of the best.

    Who the F*** trusts voting machines after they’ve been so easily hacked on live tv… in seconds.

  • Joseph Hammer

    Yeah… plenty of republicans have… and statistically, you should average the recounts… not count until you get the number you want… A La 2000 George Bush Florida.

  • klug3

    The original 2 guys who wrote the paper are in the same boat qualification wise. The “paper” is a document they uploaded with no peer review and jump to conclusions that are not warranted by the data. One pretty glaring failure is the fact that the data they have is only from 2 elections, 1 presedential and 1 primary and both only from years in which republicans lost. Also the basic statistical premise is pretty dumb, precincts are not perfectly randomly cut up sections of the electorate, and having a larger electorate does have an effect on how people vote.

    For someone who has actually done some real research, look at this paper:

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1410/1410.8868.pdf

    Precinct 
Size 
Matters: The
 Large
 Precinct
 Bias (LPB) in
 US
 Presidential
 Elections by G.F.
Webb (Vanderbilt
 University)

    > 
In
 11 
states 
LPB 
is
 relatively
 small 
( 
0.5%)
 in 
blue 
win 
precincts
 (Alabama,
 Delaware,
 Florida,
 Michigan,
 Missouri,
 New
 Mexico,
North
 Carolina,
 Pennsylvania,
 Wisconsin),
 and
 in
 all 
of 
these
 states 
the 
LPB
 in 
blue
 win
 precincts
 is
 red.
 In
 these 
9 
states 
the 
corresponding 
LPB 
in 
red 
win 
precincts
 is
 relatively 
small ( 
800 
in 
Michigan 
2012 LPB
 is 
red
 and
 red LPB 
=
 0.63%
 of 
state 
votes
 cast, 
which
 indicates 
that
 voter
 inconvenience
 also
 penalizes
 blue
 voters
 in
 red
 win precincts
 > 
800.
In
 New
 Mexico
 and
 North
 Carolina

 the
 LPB
 in 
red 
win
 precincts
 > 
800
 is 
blue,
which
 indicate that
 voter 
heterogeneity
 in
 large
 precincts
 is
 significant
 in
 red
 win
 precincts
 > 
800.

  • Joseph Hammer

    Yeah… I live in Washington… that was sketchy.

    It’s democrats AND republicans… and I suspect the greens and libertarians would do it if they could =P

  • Alexsandyr Troutnoodler

    That won’t work, here.

    See, these voting machines have *three sets of accounting books.* The only creatures that have *3* sets of accounting books are bookies, mobsters, drug lords and voting machines.

    The way it works is not simple, but basically, you link Books 1 & 2. Now you log into Book 2 and make changes to Book 1. These changes are recorded, of course. Now you delete the record of changes from Book 1. But book 2 still has those changes documented, right? Now you unlink Books 1&2, and link Book 2 and 3. Using Book 3, you delete the record of changes in Book 2, *and* the record that Book 1 & 2 were linked, then unlinked. Now you delete the record of Book 2 and 3 being linked, and unlink.

    Book 3 is now manually deleted. Books 1 and 2 appear to be totally valid, and book 3 is empty, which is the way it’s supposed to look as part of the housekeeping software’s function.

    In short, these machines are specifically designed for fraud.

    blackboxvoting.org

  • stuff

    Very apt point. Conservatives also like conflate voter fraud with voter registration fraud.

    When you have various organization running a voter registration drives paying some college kid $1 a name it shouldn’t be a surprise when Micky Mouse and various people intured at the local grave yard show up on the rolls. Voter registration fraud has no impact on vote totals as these ‘people’ don’t show up to vote.

    But it got people riled up enough to kill ACORN the only real advocacy group the working poor had.

  • Tyler

    “This order was ignored by the Secretary of State’s office, despite their being legally required to respond to her within 30 days. The office later said that they didn’t realize they had received her request.”

    Ohh heyyy don’t worry about it you are only legally required oh well

  • Mister Wirez

    We could fix this easily with a tumbprint or a signature, and 3 receipts…
    Plus, no absentee ballots.

    Voting is open for 10 days, up until election day, and in person only or mail in ballot with an in-county post mark.

    One receipt for the county courthouse/official voter record, one for ballot re-counts in close elections, and the last one for the voters peronal records/backup.

    BUT… Republicans officials would NEVER go for a fair election, they’d never win.

  • Dude, you gotta learn how to apostrophe.

  • Aktap

    No wonder Kansas Republicans hate voter fraud, they don’t want the competition.

  • smeezekitty

    It isn’t a coincidence that the democratic party paid for two recounts. Would they have gone for three if she didn’t win?

    I am not saying Republican’s aren’t corrupt. I am just saying both parties are guilty.

  • Sotmone

    National standards for the voting process should be established and one of the rules should be some sort of paper trail. For each district, one or two polls should be randomly selected and audited. There should be no room for the shenanigans that happened in Ohio in 2004 and which were narrowly avoided in 2012.

  • Terry Wilson

    Then release the records. Until then there is a black mark of guilt hovering over this. Also they are public records and it’s funny how republicans always try to deny access to public records.

  • J.t. Alwin

    My daughter just read that (with some help explaining definitions of some words), and afterwords asked me “Why did he just post something that said the opposite of what he says is true?” So Duane, you are NOT smarter than a Fifth Grader.

  • J.t. Alwin

    Keep up the projection so your precious little ego doesn’t have to face the fact you’re wrong about everything in life… you’re not fooling anyone else.

  • TheDarkArtist

    How is that election fraud? A recount is a recount. I’m sure plenty of Republicans have done similar things, doesn’t mean that it’s fraud.

  • James Wood

    So you admit you cannot read, even your own sources. Or perhaps you are unable to count. A lot of cases in there, and tracking Republican vs Democrat would run you out of fingers pretty quick. Either way, this explains a lot.

  • James Wood

    “keep repeating it”
    ironic that your only response to a demand for proof, accompanied bu TONS of proof to the opposite, is this. You are the target GOP demographic- ignorant and proud of it.

  • James Wood

    Funny how you make a claim with no support in a discussion overflowing with evidence of GOP election fraud.
    I see this claim repeated a lot, usually by the most ignorant and uninformed of the GOP’s fan base. Useful tip: it is simply not true.

  • James Wood

    “remove absentee voting”
    Why do you hate the military so much as to remove their right to vote?

  • James Wood

    Why would the natural death of a man that made his living committing fraud to discredit honest people cause a revolt?

  • James Wood

    You are assuming the recounts are the fraud, rather than an attempt to show fraud through forcing a review of the records.

  • stuff

    I the only decision in our history in which the Supreme Court said don’t use this as precedence in the future? Where they actually stepped in to stop a recount that Gore would have won? that SCOTUS?

    Do you even know the context of the case. I bet not. See Bush argued that the recount violated his right to equal protection. Can you explain to me how a recount does that?

  • listening2grasshoppers

    you’re brainwashed buddy. I have no interest in your opinion so could you link that up?

  • stuff

    Was the cognitive dissonance too much for you to actually take in. There was no logical process that says hey republicans suck they must be cheating. What I linked is evidence and references to historical events. Did you watch the PBS special I linked did you read the article on gerrymandering I linked? NO

  • smeezekitty

    Except when Christine Gregoire (past democratic Governor of WA) had her party recount the votes TWICE until she won

  • Varuka Salt

    Sources or STFU

  • Varuka Salt

    Yes. I remember what a lying scumbag he was.

  • Duane Savage

    SCOTUS says you are wrong

  • Duane Savage

    Keep repeating it .. it’s the mantra of the left. We suck at what we do, they must have cheated.

  • stuff

    Republicans really are THE party of vote fraud. Did you not read the article.

    Have you not heard of voter caging http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/330/video.html?

    Manipulating poll availability so that liberal percents have longer lines. Either though reducing the number of machines or just eliminating early voting hours.

    My personal favorite is Voter ID laws which cut against liberal voters likely to live in a city or on campus and thus no need for driver’s licence. How else to explain Texas were Student IDs issued by a state college are not sufficient but conceal and carry permits are just fine

    worst of all gerrymandering how else to explain this ?http://www.thenation.com/article/republicans-only-got-52-percent-vote-house-races/

    Do you not remember 2004 when Bush tried to politicize the justice department – ordered them to pursue in person voter fraud all costs so they could sell things like voter ID laws. Eight attorneys general were fired because they couldn’t find a case to prosecute.

    Structural bias in the electoral college that favors rural ergo more conservative voters. Even with this bias Republicans have only managed to win a single presidential election over the previous 25 years.

    The only way Republicans get away with their vote rigging esp caging, voter ID laws, and reducing available voting hours is to convenience low information voters that a.) Liberals frequently commit voter fraud and b.) these proposals will fix it. NEITHER ARE TRUE

  • krisshanahan

    Big surprise – NOT!
    It is going on big time everywhere. The business they have in the south where they threaten everyone with a common African American or Asian name that they are voting twice and then tell them they must resolve this (not giving them time) or they will arrest them when they come to vote. Now that is voter intimidation for sure. Repugs are very capable of any dirty deed and I’m sure they’ve been doing this a long time.

  • stuff

    Revolt – that was cause for celebration. He was nothing more than propagandist.

  • Duane Savage

    Hard to cheat yourself out of a landslide…

  • Duane Savage

    Uh-huh..more Democrats infractions than GoP..my point is perfectly made.

    Democrats cheat more, GoP is behind the learning curve

  • Angus2100

    You’ve forgotten what happened to Al Gore, haven’t you?

  • Strange how it is *always* Republicans that end up benefiting from voter fraud and election fraud, isn’t? Wotta coincidence!

  • FiveXP

    Remember Andrew Breitbart? No revolt there.

  • limbodog

    No, a smoking gun is the link between the perpetrator and the crime. That’s why you kill someone before they can testify, to *eliminate* the smoking gun.

  • Not surprised its Kansas. They got the worst Sec of State in the country.

  • Buffalo Trace
  • Progressive_Joe

    Beat me to it, here, have an upvote.

  • her efforts to verify Sedgwick County’s election returns have been repeatedly shut down.
    Jct: Fraud or not. When they’re hiding official information from a mathematician, what else do you really need to know. When the evidence has been destroyed, they were just long-time looking for it.

  • Brian Anderson

    If she does, would that even be enough of a smoking gun for a revolt?
    Americans (on both ‘sides’ of the political spectrum) need to wake up to the fact that those with the most power — the billionaire class who controls the media, owns the politicians, and starts wars for profit — are the REAL enemy and not each other.

    #FeelTheBern

  • limbodog

    I really hope Beth Clarkson doesn’t mysteriously die in the next couple months.

  • limbodog

    She’s *trying* to collect more data, but being thwarted.

  • limbodog

    Start with the beginning, and then move to the end.

  • limbodog

    Start with the beginning, and then move to the end.

  • limbodog

    Start with the beginning, and then move to the end.

  • jamesbuckley

    I checked some of the links from that site, in several cases republicans are linked to fraud, as well ad Dems. Also, these seem to be small amounts (dozens vs hundreds/millions). You really aren’t proving your point well. It could be said that voter fraud is bi-partisan… I’d also point to overly restrictive voter id laws that end up affecting legit voters that are mostly pushed by republicans and gerrymandering on both sides…

  • butcher99

    and that is why the Dems did so well in the last election keeping the Senate and taking control of the house and getting a majority of governorships in the States and winning all those seats in State legislatures? Your post makes no sense unless of course what I just stated is true. Which of course it is not

  • Duane Savage

    Which part?

  • William Hirst

    Funny thing is, The Koch’s probably helped bank roll that study. Since they are the Largest supporters of WSU. Imagine that……

  • Jack Kelly

    Not to mention that the software is considered “proprietary” and no one including the Government is allowed access to it.

  • Sumner Kagan

    it’s only considered fraud when someone’s caught, otherwise it’s “voting irregularities” and dismissed. Since we can’t prove that a voter is really who they claim to be or ID them after the fact, then we will never have a reliable voting system. Add to that computerized systems run by the government that have been demonstrated time and again to be hacked and a system to allow people to mail in ballots with no way to again verify, and we have one messed up pile of crap now that has no creditability anymore.

    We need to revamp the entire voting process. Make it a national holiday, require valid ID, no more absentee voting, remove the damn computer systems and remove any potential bending of the rules like the whole “hanging chad” BS. Add voting booths in major businesses and other vital places that can’t give workers the time off or where people can’t make it to the polling stations like hospitals.

    Course that would mess up the current Oligarchy we have now run by the establishment career politicians so never happen.

  • Jack Kelly

    Care to back that up with some facts.

  • Willard Bickford

    these black box voting machines should be banned…

  • Duane Savage

    Nobody does voter fraud like Democrats..the GoP is far behind in the learning curve, in that respect.

  • David

    Notice that the mathematician hasn’t made any claims yet. Like a good scientist should, she is collecting more data before jumping to conclusions. I imagine she stands roughly where I do on this: there is an interesting anomaly, but no clear evidence of fraud.

  • Matthew Wild

    Ad hominem…

  • AFV

    Yeah says a commenter on a website. Excuse me while I trust the mathematician.

  • boB

    How would voter ID have any effect at all on machine tabulation “errors” be they intentional or not? How would exiling an individual voter for fraud have any bearing at all on election fraud perpetrated by the voting machine software (and/or hackers)?

    You suggest a solution to a problem that does not exist in response to a very real problem that does.

  • Nate Lee

    My state (Oregon) does it right – When you get any state-issued ID as an adult, you are *automatically* registered to vote. You have to specifically take action to *not* be registered. And we vote my mail, too. No time off work, no problems, just put a stamp on it, or drop by your local post office or library branch and drop it in the Ballot Bin. Take you time filling it out in the couple of weeks or month beforehand, so you can go slowly and verify what you want, no pressure. It’s great!

  • Maerzie

    Well, when two Republican guys make these machines, there obviously needs to be better supervision.

  • David

    Whether or not there is actual election fraud occurring, this statistical analysis is a total mess and is tailored to support a conspiracy theory. The data only show that Romney/Republicans do better in larger districts than smaller districts. These accumulation plots fallaciously imply that as the election goes on, the results are being tweaked to favor one candidate. If you accumulate the votes in reverse order (from smallest to largest districts), it appears that Democrats gain votes as the election goes on. See the attached image for an example. Now I can spin the narrative that Democrats are participating in voter intimidation at smaller precincts, where they are less likely to be noticed (not that I believe this either).

    That being said, it is interesting that this correlation exists in some elections but not all (and appears to favor some more than others, assuming the election data aren’t cherry-picked). Instead of this vote-flipping theory, my guess is that Romney and Republicans campaign more heavily in larger districts. There’s no reason to assume a priori that district size should be uncorrelated with the election outcome, and you can’t use this assumption to claim election fraud.

    In short, the Choquette–Johnson paper is nonsense (and poorly written to boot). It’s still worth doing these analyses and Clarkson should not be denied access to the voting records. But this is a good example of trying to fit data to a story instead of the other way around.

  • Maerzie

    Well, MY very own vote for Barrett, in the Wisconsin Walker Recall election, was given to Walker. Luckily I DID notice it by pure fluke, and had the precinct helper instruct me how to correct it. How many others were NOT as lucky, and never had the opportunity to correct the “convenient accident(?)”, in Walker’s favor? And, since the scam worked so well, was it used AGAIN in the Governor election?

  • andrea

    Show us where in the Constitution Voter ID is mentioned, please.
    Also, show where it is truly necessary. ELECTION fraud is what’s going on. The voters aren’t cheating. The PARTY is cheating.

  • Richard Charnin

    https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/12370/

    To confirm Clarkson’s results, I downloaded 2014 Kansas Senate precinct data for each county. Cumulative vote shares (CVS) were calculated for the five largest: Sedgwick, Johnson, Saline, Shawnee and Wyandotte ans well as the Total for all KS counties.

    https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/12370/

    Note the Republican state total cumulative share margin is in steady decline for the first 500,000 votes, but then becomes flat. Since the largest counties show the GOP cumulative share increasing with precinct size, it confirms that they were the counties where the anomalies occurred. In other words, the Independent Orman may have caught the Republican Roberts if the trend was not halted by election fraud (vote switching, disenfranchisement, etc.) in the larger (presumably more Democratic) precincts.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D087y0AlsFiITeypDEk3W_c4P-O2iytQRCp85wFIw-Q/edit#gid=1367668624

    Clarkson’s analysis confirms my previous CVS analysis of the 2014 Wisconsin, Florida, Maryland and South Dakota governor elections, all of which showed the same counter-intuitive, mathematically anomalous trend: cumulative vote shares increased in favor of the Republican candidate in large precincts. One would expect that the cumulative vote shares should move slightly in favor of the Democrats as larger (urban) precinct votes are added to the total.
    https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/proving-election-fraud-cumulative-vote-share-analysis/

  • fifthdentist

    In 2014 an entity funded by the Koch brothers sent mailings that looked like a document from the Georgia Secretary of State’s office. It gave erroneous information about the registration process. I saw one of them. It looked totally official. In tiny, tiny small print it gave the name of the group, but one had to look very, very carefully to notice it.
    Here are several other cases where the same group committed fraud in an attempt to prevent people from registering or to prevent registered voters from casting ballots. I guess the Koch brothers should be banished forever.
    http://www.southernstudies.org/2014/10/americans-for-prosperitys-trail-of-voter-misinform.html

  • Please note the correction posted yesterday. This has been fixed.

  • cameramandavid

    Note to the author, when the state perpetrates the fraud, it’s called ELECTION FRAUD. Your title is misleading…

  • Danielle

    Voter ID’s will do nothing if you have clowns (Republicans) rigging the vote from the beginning..

  • RepubAnon

    A free national ID card which could be obtained easily without the need to take time off work (say,at local school offices or post offices Monday – Saturday) might be an idea. Pity that Republicans want to restrict issuing ID cards in a way to discourage the average Democratic voter from applying.

  • RepubAnon

    There’s only so much they can fake the numbers without getting too obvious in national elections – but check the state and local-level elections. Plus, if they start “vote shaving” (akin to point shaving) in heavily-Democratic districts, and lower a statewide Democratic candidate’s win in such districts by 5-10% while increasing a Republican candidate’s vote in conservative and swing districts by the same percentage, it could be enough to win.

  • RepubAnon

    I care not who votes, so long as I can program the voting machines.

  • Serio Vitium

    So we’re to believe the Republicans are hacking voting machines in order to change vote totals and still lose. Is that the general gist?

  • Richard M

    I’m all for requiring identification when voting. Moreover I also favor lifetime exile from the USA for anyone involved in voter fraud in any way. Let’s go for it!!!!

  • ComradeRutherford

    Republicans HATE it when people tell the truth.

  • “The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”
    – Joseph Stalin

    There’s been various forms of election fraud going all the way back to the beginning of the American republic, but only since voting has gone electronic has it become possible to tamper with counts and results and leave no trace of having done so. Even where there are paper tape records, it’s like the way a cop’s body cam is useless if turned off; there’s no much point in the paper tape if nobody can gain legal access to look at them before they’re destroyed.

    From Max Clelland onward, I remain convinced that while probably not every election is being tampered with, the Republicans have become sufficiently disdainful of the law that the number of elections being thus rigged is increasing. The fact it’s looking like establishment Republicans are being favored versus upstarts suggests not only a partisan bent, but someone (or groups of someones) consciously choosing among their own party’s candidates will be running in the general.

  • LanceThruster

    “Get a rope…”

  • sukabi

    Thank you

  • You’re absolutely right. Fixed where appropriate and correction added to the bottom.

  • sukabi

    Adding that the conflation of the two, voter with election, gives the folks in charge of running the elections an out, as all investigations into voter fraud come up empty, as voters that try to vote more than once, or on the wrong precinct are almost nonexistent….however, ask to check the machines to see if they count correctly, are any problems and you’ll meet with extreme resistance , proprietary information and all.

  • Indigo

    That’s election fraud, not voter fraud, and it’s serious. That was the authorities empowering the fraud, not a random drifter trying to vote with a fake registration. In Kansas? Oh, myyy!

  • sukabi

    A nitpick as words do matter. Voter fraud would be when a VOTER tries to game the system and votes multiple times or votes when he she is not eligible.

    ELECTION FRAUD is when someone (election official, hacker, other a hole) stuffs the ballot box, skews the results, either by hacking into the system or setting up the machines to miscount the result.

    What the article is talking about would fall under ELECTION FRAUD.

  • JeffAtMinetfiber

    At this point, I consider them all to be suspect. I used to work in the casino gaming industry, and slot machines have to pass rigorous testing by both the company and by an independent authority. If a voting machine doesn’t have at least that much testing, I don’t see how a logical person could consider it trustworthy.

  • GeorgeMokray

    I wonder if she’s spoken with Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman who have been investigating voter fraud and voting machine fraud, focusing on their home state of Ohio, since the 2000 election. Might be a good connection to carry this forward.

  • They only care about brown people voting Democrat. Widespread electoral fraud at the institutional level doesn’t matter. There have been multiple serious concerns about the data from voting machines since the 2000 election, and nobody has had any interest in seriously investigating it – lest it undermine what little confidence there is in the entire system. If one voting machine is found to be providing false data, they all could theoretically be doing the same.

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