Pope demotes anti-gay cardinal as Vatican refuses to codify watered-down gay statment

Hey, it’s fascinating that the Vatican is in any turmoil at all over its position on gays. That’s progress in and of itself.

I wrote last week about a new Vatican report, written by cardinals hand-picked by the Pope, which included a section on “welcoming” gays.

Well, conservative Catholic leaders were having none of it, and they got the Pope’s men to pull back the welcome-wagon.

Okay, maybe just a little.

Okay, maybe just a little.

But even that wasn’t enough, as the now-weak-tea language still got voted down.

At the same time, news comes that the Pope himself has demoted a conservative Catholic cardinal working in the Vatican. That cardinal then tattles to Buzzfeed, giving them some awfully nasty quotes about the Pope, including the claim that the Pope is “weakening” the church.

More from Buzzfeed:

If Pope Francis had selected certain cardinals to steer the meeting to advance his personal views on matters like divorce and the treatment of LGBT people, Burke said, he would not be observing his mandate as the leader of the Catholic Church.

“According to my understanding of the church’s teaching and discipline, no, it wouldn’t be correct,” Burke said, saying the pope had “done a lot of harm” by not stating “openly what his position is.”

The Pope isn’t observing his mandate, and has “done a lot of harm” to the church?

So much for papal infallibility.

The thing is, we seem to be witnessed actual turmoil at the highest levels of the Catholic church, over us. And that ain’t nothing.

It would seem, by the reactions of conservatives, that this Pope was serious about forging a kinder and gentler Rome.

And judging by a new PEW poll, we can see one of the reasons why: A majority of young American Catholics support gays. (The old ones aren’t so bad, either.) It appears the Catholic church is facing the same problem as our own Republican party — demographics.

pew-gay-rights-catholics

Judging by the backlash and all the intrigue, it almost makes you wonder about those “far-fetched” rumors about John Paul I.


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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  • annAnnMOwenann

    My Uncle Caleb got a new white Toyota Corolla by working off of a computer… go to this web-site …….>> -> START FREELANCING!!! <-

  • hidflect

    The Pope should give all those who try to undermine his progression to the 21st century a respite with new positions serving the glory of God assisting the poorest of the poor in the poorest of parishes. After all, that’s what they all probably publicly proclaim they really want to do, right? OK, here ya go; Namibia for you… Liberia for you.. and Zaire for you, buddy. Done. Now for a simple sandwich for lunch.

  • andrea952AndreaREliasandrea952

    my Aunty Eva got an almost new Nissan Maxima from only workin part-time on a pc at home…read …>> -> START FREELANCING!!! <-

  • Indigo

    Aphrodite of Ephesus had many teats in order to illustrate her role as the Earth Mother Goddess. After the Treaty of Milan (313 A.D.), what with the Christian Movement becoming the state religion, certain adjustments to accomodate the new dogmas were necessary. Among them . . . well, judge for yourself:

  • OtterQueen

    It’s an ecumenical snuggie.

  • OtterQueen

    Great. I don’t think of the blessed virgin from one day to the next, but from now on I am going to visualize her lying down in a hay-lined horse stall with twin rows of multiple teats on display like some kind of brood sow. Thank you for that disturbing visual. She has now nudged out clowns and spiders for the top spot on my “Wrong. Fucking wrong.” list.

  • Ninong

    Isn’t he head of the Knights of Malta now? They were/are a military order. Can he still dress in drag? LOL

    Let’s see what Francis has done so far. He got rid of Cardinal Bertone, the second most powerful man in the Vatican after the pope. Bertone was the Vatican’s Secretary of State and he’s the guy Benedict’s butler was trying to expose when he leaked all those secret papers. The butler felt that Bertone was undermining Benedict.

    Francis also got rid of the head of the Vatican Bank and put in his own man. Now he has removed the head of the Court of Canon Law, Cardinal Burke, and made him honorary head of the Knights of Malta. LOL

    The only other powerful post is held by a conservative American — CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). That’s held by Benedict’s buddy who was previously archbishop of San Francisco. The popes seem to love sending really conservation jerks to San Francisco just to annoy the local gay population. Benedict was Prefect of the CDF before he became pope.

  • Ninong

    Don’t drink the cocoa.

  • Ninong

    Ex cathedra has been invoked only once (in 1950) since it was officially promulgated in 1870. Pius XII used it to declare the Assumption a dogma of the faith.

    Non-Catholics routinely misstate what the Church actually claims with the doctrine of papal infallibility. They claim that the pope is infallible ONLY when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith or morals. It’s all quite silly enough without exaggerating what it really is.

  • Ninong

    Thomas Aquinas considered the soul in the unborn fetus to have three different levels of development that correspond to the three trimesters of pregnancy. It wasn’t considered to be a fully developed human soul until the third trimester. Of course, now they say it’s fully developed from the instant of fertilization.

  • Ninong

    Raymond Cardinal Burke is an American. Nothing Pope Francis can do about the fact that he’s a cardinal but he can give him a new assignment. I wonder if Burke’s new honorary title requires him to relocate to Malta?

    The American cardinals, in general, are more conservative than those from any other area of the world except Africa. Here’s what Timothy Cardinal Dolan, Archbishop of New York, had to say about the way things turned out: “There was a pretty good, vivid conversation especially with the African bishops, who I love more than ever, who obviously come from cultures and societies that I admire that have a very strong definition of marriage as man and woman with children and are kind of afraid of attempts to water that down.”

    So Cardinal Dolan admires the African bishops and their “cultures and societies” more than ever! That tells you all you need to know about Dolan and Burke and the African cultures they no doubt both admire more than ever now. Too bad they can’t get a kill-the-gays-law passed in the US.
    One good thing about being pope is you’re not only the only one who can create someone cardinal, you’re also the one with the final say on who gets to be a bishop or archbishop and which assignment you will give them, or not. Removing Burke from one of the most powerful positions in the Vatican was pure payback, Vatican style.

  • Rambie

    I’ll agree we are seemingly rapidly moving to a plutocracy

  • Badgerite

    No. But you know even the over 65 crowd are supportive of a “more accepting stance”.
    You are a better ‘fallen’ Catholic than me. I never had any patience for all of that ‘Ex Cathedra’ crap. And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or “how many teats the Virgin Mary had” ( I’m going to HELLLLL).

  • Badgerite

    Oh my. I’m going to HELL. I laughed out loud at this.
    Mea Maxima Culpa!

  • Bill_Perdue

    If it helps relieve people of their delusions then its priceless.

    My only quarrel with the study is that I the US is a plutocracy.

  • Rambie

    That was as waste of money. It probably goes back way farther, but the signs were revealed in the 2000 election and ever more clear every election since that the US is a Oligarchy.

  • Bill_Perdue

    It matters little what the polls say, except as a harbinger of the further isolation of the baby raper cult.

    They’re no more democratic than the US. “A new scientific study from Princeton researcher Martin Gilens and Northwestern researcher Benjamin I. Page has finally put some science behind the recently popular argument that the United States isn’t a democracy any more. And they’ve found that in fact, America is basically an oligarchy.

    For their study, Gilens and Page compiled data from roughly 1,800 different policy initiatives in the years between 1981 and 2002. They then compared those policy changes with the expressed opinion of the United State public. Comparing the preferences of the average American at the 50th percentile of income to what those Americans at the 90th percentile preferred, as well as the opinions of major lobbying or business groups, the researchers found out that the government followed the directives set forth by the latter two much more often. It’s beyond alarming.

    As Gilens and Page write, ‘the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.’ In other words, their statistics say your opinion literally does not matter.” my emphasis
    http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/new_study_finds_the_us_is_not_a_democracy_so_what_is_it_20140417

  • Hue-Man

    The pope finds himself in nearly the same position as the Archbishop of Canterbury – Europe and North American laity supporting “radical ideas” and African and Asian church leadership professing “traditional values”. Two obvious differences are the recent history of far-right popes appointing ALL leaders since 1978 and Anglican gay clergy getting married.

    The elephant in the room is the catholic church’s sex abuse scandal. “Welcoming” gays may allow gay priests to be more open; a permanent solution to sex abuse is to allow priests to marry and weed out the pedophiles. Lesbians and gays, remarried divorcees, contraception, and gay civil marriage can be “tweaked” but married priests requires a major doctrinal change.

    The pope has a leadership team that is familiar with how things work and has been successful working within those rules. They are unlikely to be enthusiastic about changing the status quo that has worked for them. Even if the pope listens to the Western laity and modernizes, how will those steps be implemented by reluctant bishops and priests? (It can’t help having Ratzinger lurking in the background communicating with his proteges.)

    My outsider’s guess? The conservatives will stall and delay until the Grim Reaper has his day (he’ll be 78 in December and has just under 10 years life expectancy). Pope Ratzinger II and a purge of all liberals.

  • Sugapea

    John…Hoping you and your wonderful site didn’t miss this video…
    A little reminder of Life…How fast life goes and how precious life is:
    http://www.upworthy.com/2-beautiful-men-have-a-love-affair-in-1969-but-the-last-10-seconds-will-break-your-heart

  • Likes to play dress-up, does he? ;-)

  • Well, the lad wasn’t brought up Roman Catholic. Nearly everyone who isn’t (and a sad number who are) Catholic think mistakenly that ‘Ex Cathedra’ is an always-on position for every single thing the Pope says. I believe you’re right, the 1950 statement was on the Assumption of Mary. But the 1854 one actually predated Vatican I (1870), which established the specific dogma as to what was and wasn’t an ‘infallible’ statement. (If I remember correctly, the 1854 one was related to the Immaculate Conception.) Even in ancient times, papal infallibility wasn’t invoked all that often.

    On the other hand, diocese priests take two top vows when they swear to serve the Church: Celibacy/Chastity and Obedience. (Some also take the vow of Poverty, but not normal clergy. And the Jesuits are allowed to take a special Fourth Vow to serve the Pope and Church directly.) The Obedience vow says they’ll obey the Church hierarchy in all things, with the Pope at the top.

    By repeatedly saying his boss isn’t doing the Pope job right, Burke is very near to that line of insubordination, if not over it already…

  • Jim Olson

    Its an ancient form of a ferraiolo. Raymond Cardinal Burke is quite fond of pre-Vatican vestments.

  • Kenster999

    John, I love ya, and love the blog, but please STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT PAPAL INFALLIBILITY! That’s only when he explicitly speaks “ex cathedra” and claims to be infallible, and I think has only been done (under the modern definition) two times: in 1854 and 1950. I think the whole idea of it is ridiculous, but that’s no reason to deliberately misrepresent what it is; doing so just weakens your authority and argument. Sorry to be a little harsh, but you’re better than that! :) Thanks…

  • RNegron

    “Three hour dressing… and you still come out looking like a bloated citrus fruit. – Well only this and the dreaded kaftan fitted, and when I say fitted… it was full to capacity.”

  • 2patricius2

    Or, Cardinal Raymond Burke – a joke.

  • jm2

    to clarify – there is no infallibility involved. it is seldom used & must be done in writing in what is called magesterium. as far as Mr. Burke, he’s not the first house-cleaning Francis has done but probably is the most important. Francis has now put all of them on notice, including Dolan in New York who really toned down his rhetoric on ABC’s This Week on Sunday.

  • woodroad34

    OMG! That’s my Aunt Eula! She never looked good in red.

  • woodroad34

    The thing about Burke is that he’s coming across as though he’s more knowledgeable than the pope; in other words he thinks he’s better than the pope and gives the impression he wants to be pope. Not so surprising since he was the right-hand man under Ratzinger–birds of a feather, doncha know. He calls liberals the killers of faith and yet he wants to kick out anyone who doesn’t lock-step to his theological dictatura. His interpretations reflect his personality and not the church’s.

    So, isn’t his arrogance, bearing false witness, and lack of fealty something of a sin? He should be kicked out or demoted to private.

  • Indigo

    That sounds likely. It makes sense to suggest that the P2 Lodge is the internal threat. The bankers are on the run from the EU regulations. I don’t know enough about that part of the story to comment.

  • I can’t decide if that’s a poncho or a tarp…

  • nicho

    No, more likely the P2 Lodge in cahoots with the Vatican bankers.

  • Indigo

    I remember that and the non-joke that went around, “Careful, Your Holiness, that first step is loose.” But that WAS the Mafia did that. Or so a guy I know said.

  • nicho

    Three words: John Paul One

  • jomicur

    And you do know about the Italian Renaissance artist who styled himself “Il Sodoma,” (the Sodomite) don’t you? There’s no record I’m aware of that the church had any problem with him.

  • Indigo

    “I sodomiti” (it sounds so much nicer in Italian) run a footrace on hot sand in Circle 7 of Hell in the Divine Comedy while the usurers, nearby, sob hysterically with heavy purses hanging around their necks but there’s no direct reference to abortion that I know of anywhere in Dante’s 14th century catalog of deeds, both good and bad.

  • UncleBucky

    Eeeeeshhh….

  • UncleBucky

    Make the RCC a “right to work” Holy See for clerics. Hahahaha, no tenure!

  • UncleBucky

    NOTE TO POPE:

    Fire ALL of them. Appoint new ones, give them a terminal contract with riders that they must be kinder and gentler. Otherwise Phffffttt.

    I can dream, can’t I?

  • Indigo

    I heard that too. I doubt it, though.

  • nicho

    My Vatican sources say that he has already hired the Mafia to cover his back.

  • nicho

    Now that you mention it.

  • Aye, and it was also considered part of doctrine that the baby wasn’t ensouled until it drew its first breath. Which, when you think of it and consider the huge numbers of miscarried babies (a number even larger before modern medicine), is the more compassionate position.

  • jomicur

    In The Devils of Loudun Aldous Huxley reported that until the 17th century it was Catholic doctrine that a fetus was not considered alive until the mother could feel it kicking in her womb–usually the fifth month or later. That doctrine certainly seems to have changed. (I’ve never seen that reported anywhere else, but Huxley was usually quite impeccable in his scholarship.)

  • jomicur

    One of the popes in the Middle Ages actually had his corpse dug up and put on trial for heresy. We may soon see a repeat of that.

  • Indigo

    It’s difficult to imagine that anybody over 65 hasn’t seen through the charade yet. Republicans only, I’m guessing.

  • Indigo

    Maltese lace, I assume.

  • Indigo

    Exactly. Infallibility is only for those rare moments when obviously important doctrine is declared. Such as: how many teats did the Blessed Virgin Mary have?

  • kingstonbears

    A little early for Halloween?

  • Aye, clergy members have been excommunicated for less.

  • kwd

    Someone needs to ask every one of these dissenting bishops, cardinals, and priests and get their answers on-record: “Is the Pope ‘God’s Vicar on Earth’ or isn’t he?”

  • There are the two — Catholics over 65 years old aren’t supportive of same sex marriage, nor those who go to Mass more than once a week (which is probably mostly the 65-and-over crowd) — but that’s it.

    But what’s rather ironic is Burke has been saying the Pope can’t change the Church’s teachings, which is flat-out wrong, even if Ex Cathedra isn’t invoked.

  • 2karmanot

    Are you sure that’s not Cheney in drag?

  • 2karmanot

    Time for the Pope to get a taster.

  • nicho

    Wow. He made it into the Red Hat Society. The other Red Hat Ladies must love him.

  • nicho

    So much for papal infallibility.

    Again, infallibility is not an issue here. The pope made no infallible pronouncements.

  • Sam_Handwich

    Cardinal Raymond Burke … no joke

  • Macbill

    The new pope needs more time replacing the conservatives that the last 2 popes elevated to higher positions.

  • Badgerite

    Those polls are stunning. There isn’t a single demographic listed that does not support an accepting stance. And the future is pretty clear. He may not be ‘infallible’ but this Pope is no dummy.

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