Russian rebels have kidnapped Malaysia Airlines dead, stacking them in train boxcars

ABC just reported that the Russian rebels in Ukraine have basically kidnapped, for lack of a better word, the bodies of 200 of the Malaysia Airlines passengers who were shot out of the sky by Russian surrogates a few days ago.

Ukrainian rescue workers had managed to collect around 200 of the 298 bodies when Russian rebel forces turned their guns on the rescuers and literally stole the bodies.

The Russian surrogates are now stacking the bodies of the passengers and crew, including 80 children, in train boxcars.  The NYT has a photo — for me, it immediately evoked the Holocaust.

As I wrote before, the Russians have basically armed rednecks with rocket launchers. And they know it.  And as Brian Ross just said on ABC, say what you will about how this was an “accident,” but these are people (the Russian rebels) who “do” want to shoot down civilian airliners, who “do” see a benefit in doing just that.

obama-whcd-hannity-giuliani-huckabee-putinAnd as for the Russians, as I noted before, how exactly was this an “accident” any more than intentionally handing a 5-year-old child a loaded gun, and then the child shoots someone, is “an accident”?

What did the Russians think their surrogates in Ukraine were going to be doing with missile systems built for shooting down airplanes (the weapons fly at 3 times the speed of sound, and can shoot down a plane as high as 70,000)?

The Russians knew that their rebels were incapable of operating such complicated equipment, and that there was thus a really good chance that they’d shoot down one of the 300 to 400 civilian airliners that was crossing over eastern Ukraine every day. Yes, 3oo to 400 (from the NYT):

[A]irspace restrictions had been introduced by Ukraine on July 1, initially restricting flights below 26,000 feet, and had not had much effect on the volume of air traffic over the area, indicating that many carriers considered the route safe. Before June 30, around 400 daily flights passed through the area at all altitudes, he said. After the first set of restrictions, traffic dropped by a few dozen flights per day. When the restriction was extended to 32,000 feet on July 14, the daily traffic decreased only by about 50 flights from a month earlier, a reduction of around 12 percent.

A majority of air traffic crossing the area where Flight 17 was struck consists of international overflights that are already at cruising altitude and would not be required to adjust their normal routes to accommodate the new restrictions.


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Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • Badgerite

    Do I? That’s interesting. Apparently you think they were not hikers.
    Hmmmmm.

  • caphillprof

    It certainly is partisan You sound like the “hikers” who “hiked” into Iran.

  • Badgerite

    This is not a “partisan” issue. This is a plane crash site with victims from all over Europe and the world.

  • caphillprof

    But where could find nonpartisan international investigators, and moreover would the US even begin to allow such a thing.

  • exomike

    John,
    I know who you are. That is why your article hit me so hard.
    “When it comes to standing up to bullies of all stripes, I am that stupid :)”

    I could not agree more. However, do you include the neocon bullies that helped overthrew the elected government of the Ukraine? In your article you were parroting propaganda from the U.S. propaganda mill. I.E. You are mis- or dis-informed.

    “I don’t check my compassion based on the nationality, or ethnicity, or religion, of the victim.”

    Neither do I. I am standing up to the bully U.S. neocons and their Ukrainian puppet Coup government who are self admittedly trying to ethnically cleanse the Eastern Ukraine. There was and is now a major Fascist and Nazi component to the coup government.

    The Ukrainian situation is a Neo Con operation to install a neo liberal system in a quest to privatize the national wealth of the Ukraine for Western Corporations.

    I apologize for being a bit short but my distain for bullies got the best of me. I did offer you a personal briefing to save you time.

    Go here and be informed. The site includes. among the reality based articles,
    the output from the U.S. and western propaganda systems. All in chronoligical order.

    http://www.eurasiareview.com/category/news-by-region/europe/eastern-europe/ukraine/
    rs,
    Mike Adams

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    When it comes to standing up to bullies of all stripes, I am that stupid :) I don’t check my compassion based on the nationality, or ethnicity, or religion, of the victim.

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  • Badgerite

    International investigators would fit the bill. For a time, they were denied access. Pretty much until Russia realized there was no way they could get away with blaming this on the government in Kiev.

  • Indigo

    Delightful mnemonic! Spaciba.

  • caphillprof

    As if there are any legitimate authorities in East Ukraine.

  • exomike

    Sorry,
    English is my fourth language. I remember now, there is “a rat” in separate.
    Dosvedanya

  • Badgerite

    The “materials released by Edward Snowden” do not really have much to do with “western freedom of speech and freedom of the press.” Surveillance and suppression are not the same thing. In Russia and China and probably a lot of other countries like Iran, they are used together. See the recent arrest of Iranian teens for publicly liking the Pharell song, Happy.
    Is that happening here. In any way, shape or form?

  • Indigo

    We don’t talk about that. Sacred cows are, after all . . . well, Sacred Cows.

  • Indigo

    We Americans spell it “separatist” but thanks for trying.

  • exomike

    Bullshit

  • exomike

    The world wasn’t watching until this false flag. That’s the point. The seperatist were winning over the Fascist coup government and now they are under propaganda attack by the Western corporate media. Hey, maybe they have the weapons of mass destruction that Bush couldn’t find, or the Syrian gas that turned out to be released by the anti Assad western backed “rebels”.
    How many times can you americans be fooled by the same ploy?

  • exomike

    You can’t be this stupid Aravosis. At best you’ve become too lazy to do your homework at worst you’ve become a shill for the Neo Cons in the State Department. Leave me a comment with an email and eventually I’ll call you and give you a real breifing as soon as I check you out.

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  • Bluestocking

    And as for the Russians, as I noted before, how exactly was this an “accident” any more than intentionally handing a 5-year-old child a loaded gun, and then the child shoots someone, is “an accident”?

    As much as I hate to point this out, John, the fact is that the United States has done this a few times as well…maybe not this exact thing, but something very similar to it. After all, we provided funding and materiel to Saddam Hussein — who by that time was already showing himself to be little more than a thug — when he declared war against Iran. (The fact that Hussein had signed a 15-year treaty with the Soviets back in 1972 didn’t seem to faze us either.)

    I’m not trying to excuse Putin, not at all…but there really is no denying the fact that our own hands are not clean when it comes to this sort of thing. Criticizing him for doing what we ourselves have also done is hypocritical, self-serving, and self-rationalizing. Granted, at least as far as we know, no political group has ever shot down a passenger airliner using weapons which they acquired from us (yet)…but the idea that nobody has ever taken innocent lives using weapons received from the United States is quite frankly preposterous. The idea that it’s somehow okay for us to arm people and that we’re not responsible for what we do with those arms while it’s not okay for Putin to do the same might be comforting, but it’s not rational — nor is it particularly ethical. We should be grateful for the fact that we haven’t had a tragedy like this laid at our door yet — with emphasis on the word yet — but that doesn’t say that there isn’t one we aren’t aware of, or that there isn’t one like this somewhere in our future (especially since there is nothing to suggest that we at any time soon intend to stop supplying arms to people who we think are acting in our interests).

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  • Badgerite

    Maybe so. Apologies.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    Implicit in my saying ‘stealing’ is taking ‘by force.’ Your post is idiotic because it is redundant.

  • Badgerite

    Obstruction of justice is the intentional interference with the investigation of legitimate authorities. Justice being seen as the determination of the truth and responsibility for a criminal act.

  • Badgerite

    Of course you were. And yet, everything my ‘idiotic’ post said is true.
    They have indeed stopped international investigators from going into the area to, you know, investigate. I would say “I wonder why” except for the fact that I already know.why.

  • Badgerite

    Already have.

  • Badgerite

    I believe the semi-plausibility defense of ‘no evidence’ is exactly why investigators have been kept out. But there is evidence. And it is reliable. See previous posts on this topic.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    I was being sarcastic about your idiotic post.

  • Badgerite

    Yes. Really.

  • Badgerite

    They would not keep international investigators out at gun point.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    Really? I had no idea.

  • Badgerite

    Taking them by force of arms is not standard practice. Nor is keeping international investigators out at gun point.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    No, but propaganda is propaganda, regardless if it is state-sponsored or created by corporations.

    http://youtu.be/GME5nq_oSR4

  • caphillprof

    “Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

  • caphillprof

    But see the materials released by Edward Snowden and then discuss Western freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

  • caphillprof

    We presently have no evidence that any party, western Ukraine, eastern Ukraine, Russia, NATO, CIA, Mossad, etc. purposely with malice aforethought shot down a commercial airliner.

    It is very convenient, however, that the shooting down of a commercial airliner acts as a cover for the Israeli incursion into Gaza.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    The ‘stealing’ of the bodies is horrible and is further evidence of Putin’s thugocracy; putting those bodies in refrigerated units is not bad – it is standard practice after a disaster.

  • nicho

    Yeah, we get it – Russians bad, bad bad. But have you heard that the terrorist state of Israel — with your tax dollars — has murdered twice as many men, women, and children as died in the Malaysia airliner? You’d think that would merit some kind of mention.

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  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    There used to be millions of Jews in Russia. Did you see the word I used, “mostly”? It’s a qualifier.

    And I think you’d be surprised how much people here are following what’s going on, even though it’s in Russia. The Internet knows no borders, and we’re not all monolingual.

  • RepubAnon

    Yeah, the current pro-separatist conspiracy theory is that the airliner was packed with dead bodies, so we may see some accusations along those lines. Besides, the separatists seem to be in charge of that area. If a crash happens in the US, local law enforcement would put the bodies into refrigerated morgues for identification.

  • Indigo

    Yes, all that. And if the Eruopean, Malaysian, American and global outrage over the event and the looting of the wreckage site doesn’t get through to the rebels, there isn’t much that can be done. I take them to be a cluster of louts, not unlike our own T-Party thugs, and if that’s the case, there’s no sense even trying to reason with them, they don’t understand rational process.

    On the other hand, if they’re a cluster of good solid local folk who just happen to have Russian ethnic roots, maybe their inherent decency will prevail. In light of their limited facilities, I take it to be a good sign that the bodies are at least being kept in refrigerated box cars. The last thing that cluster of insurgents could want is all this international indignation and the amazing spotlight modern media can focus on them. I think that behind the bluster, they’re embarrassed and don’t know what to do next. It’s even possible that prior to this atrocity, they didn’t fully realize how closely the world is watching.

  • FLL

               Khrushchev’s Shoe

    What provoked Khrushchev’s shoe-banging temper tantrum was the following remarks from the Filipino delegate to the UN:

    It is our view that the declaration proposed by the Soviet Union should cover the inalienable right to independence not only of the peoples and territories which yet remain under the rule of Western colonial powers, but also of the people of Eastern Europe and elsewhere which have been deprived of the free exercise of their civil and political rights, which have been swallowed up, so to speak, by the Soviet Union.

    I suggest that Putin’s apologists among Americablog commenters should regard Khrushchev’s shoe (the one he banged on the table at the UN) as their holy grail. No video was every taken, but a photograph records the hilarious event. Enjoy:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yho1Eydh1mM

  • FLL

    Because Khrushchev, “I will take my shoe off and pound it on the desk in front of me, preferably at the United Nations.”

  • bicyclemark

    Im sure you realize it now but those are refrigerated train cars, they don’t have any other place to keep them. Im not saying they aren’t assholes and havent interfered with the investigation. But they’re not kidnapping bodies. The difficulty right now is the anger and frustration that builds around this horrible situation leading to all kids of premature conclusions based on comments and conjecture.

  • lynchie

    time to send in the drones

  • Thom Allen

    Because Khrushchev, “We will bury you!”

  • Thom Allen

    These are the same people who fired at a plane, presuming that it was Ukrainian. They had no thought that it might belong to some other country, be carrying innocent civilians, or children. They really didn’t care. Then, under the assumption that it WAS Ukrainian, they boasted about downing it on VK.com. When word got out that it was a Malaysian Air flight, they removed their VK.com post and started trumpeting that they didn’t do it, it was the Ukrainians who shot it down. Then they reced wildly to get the black boxes, apparently hoping to cover up evidence. I believe, that had there been any survivors of the flight, if the separatists caught them, they would have executed them.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    It’s a truism: People view the world subjectively, through the lens of their own cultures, upbringing, attitudes, and assumptions.

    Most of the old Soviet block nations’ peoples have no concept of what it would mean to live in a working democracy — or for that matter, under any government that supposedly has as an ideal that it’s supposed to respond to the wishes of the people. The autocratic leader thinks like an autocrat, and ruling with the proverbial “iron fist” is presumed to be the way you do it. Government rule includes, as a matter of official policy, a certain degree of fear and terror to keep the population in line. For sure, xenophobia is an element — hence Russia’s new degree of oppression against immigrants and LGBTs (they mostly ran out of Jews a few decades ago…) — but fear of the government itself, of the powers that be, is just as important.

    Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the former Shah of Iran, ruled in that way through his SAVAK secret police, which spent more time spying on, torturing and oppressing Iran’s own people than it did conducting foreign intelligence operations. East Germany had its Stasi. The idea that “government power is derived from the consent of the governed” has long since had an amendment: “And that consent can be coerced through fear of what will happen if it is not surrendered.”

    In the West, we’re horrified by the idea a bunch of secessionist pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine would shoot down a passenger jet doing nothing but passing overhead. Those living in the Ukraine are probably right now contemplating a different conclusion: “If the separatists will do that, commit mass murder for no particular reason other than to show they can do it, there’s nothing they won’t do.”

  • FLL

    No surprise at all. Putin does not represent a society with free speech, so there is no one at present in Russia who can demand a fair, transparent investigation. There is no comparison between Putin’s regime and Western nations with freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

  • Indigo

    Because . . . Stalin?

  • StraightGrandmother

    Animals! Barbarians! It’s Murder, that is what it is, assignation.

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