Far right wins big in European Parliament elections

The far right — and I mean the FAR right — appears to have won big in Europe’s parliamentary elections that took place yesterday.

The biggest winner was France’s anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-Semitic and racist National Front, which won 26% of the votes — more than it has ever before.

In Greece, quasi-neo-Nazi Golden Dawn saw gains too.

In the UK, it fringe party, the Independent Party, also scored major gains.

According to writer David Patrikarakos, here’s the shakedown of how much the far right appears to have won in each country:

Far right votes in EU elections:
25% France
23% Denmark
22% UK
20% Austria
15% Hungary
13% Finland
12% Greece

Extremists on the march in Paris.

Extremists on the march in Paris.

Turnout was low, below 50%, which in Europe is pretty abysmal. A lot of my European friends said these votes were mostly, they think, “protest votes.” Meaning, the voters may not necessarily like the far right, but they’re voting for it anyway as a sign of their discontent with the status quo parties.

Though, one observer from Greece said nuh-uh, this was in fact a vote for the extremists:

“The rise of Golden Dawn is the most alarming result of this elections,” Christos Dimas, a lawmaker for New Democracy, said in a phone interview. “This time it was a conscious vote for the extremists. Voters could not say they didn’t know what Golden Dawn stands for.”

More on Golden Dawn via Sonni Efron’s commentary in the LA Times, writing about last week’s local elections:

In local elections held Sunday, 16% of Athenians voted for Ilias Kasidiaris, the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn’s candidate for mayor of Athens. Kasidiaris, who sports swastika tattoos and once read from “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” on the floor of Parliament, did even better in the neighborhood where Plato founded his Academy, winning 1 in 5 votes there, three times what the party won in 2012…

Among the candidates running under the Golden Dawn banner (which looks strikingly like a Nazi flag) are two retired generals who have held senior positions in the Greek military. One worked at NATO Central Command and on the European Union military staff, while the other commanded Greek special forces.

Two other Golden Dawn candidates for the Euro elections flew to Moscow this spring to meet with Alexander Dugin, an ideologue and longtime Vladimir Putin supporter, on the desirability of a Eurasian alliance between Russia and its former Soviet satellite states. Dugin has been meeting with far-rightists from across Europe.

Ironically, for all the worry some on the left had about Ukraine “going Nazi,” today’s elections in Ukraine showed only 1% voting for the far-right Pravy Sektor party. Though that didn’t stop Russian state television from claiming that Pravy Sektor won the entire election with 37% of the vote (seriously, they really claimed this).

As I noted before, perhaps those who are parroting Vladimir Putin’s failed talking points should direct their concern to Europe, and America, rather than a country that’s about to gobbled up by the mini-me version of the Soviet Union.


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Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • Bill_Perdue

    “But really…there is no difference between the ‘hate on the Hispanics, shove the ultrasound wand up the women’s privates, wave the flag, kill all the Arabs and convert them to Christianity, rah rah rah’ Republicans and our resident moderate Right Corporatist Democrats? ”

    All Democrat politicians are right centrist and they all promote anti-Arab anti-immigrant racism and they all play ball with the rich and that includes Warren who voted for a war criminal and for billionaire Penny Pritzger as Secretary of Commerce.”

    https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/26-8 and http://english.al-akhbar.com/
    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/01/07/the-right-or-wrong-experience-for-the-job/by-nominating-john-brennan-obama-is-ignoring-war-crimes
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/20135873932733462.html

    Obama is a racist who’s deported over two million immigrant and imported workers. Free abortions on demand are not available. Obama ordered the racist murders of Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi and Jude Mohammed. One was a sixteen year old boy from Denver, Colorado.

    Obama escalated in Afghanistan, repeatedly attacked Pakistan, gave the zionists a WMD called white phosphorous which they use in densely populated Gaza in civilians, pushed for the invasion of Libya, kept the war in Iraq going until he was forced out, wanted to attack Syria until he was forced to cancel his plans, supports the Egyptian and other dictatorship, prodded the Saudis to invade Bahrain to protect the regional fleet base of the US Fifth Fleet. Obama and the Democrats are responsible for the deaths and mutilation of thousand of GIs and unknown thousands of civilians from Libya to Pakistan.

    Democrats are just as bad as Republicans and worse on some questions but neither party is fascist. Pretending that Republicans are worse than Democrats is just a gateway, lesser evil theory to promote electing more Democrats. Instead the left and the labor left should move to challenge and destroy the political effectiveness of both.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21XhdpHOjRY&noredirect=1

  • Denver Catboy

    >And if you say that Republicans are somehow more right wing than
    >Democrats then you’re dead wrong. They are not. Both parties are right
    >centrist parties with few real differences.

    Really? I mean…really?

    >If your only point is that the elements of fascist ideology are precursors of
    >the formation of fascist mass movements then we agree. But if you say
    >that fascism is not an outgrowth of capitalism in its death agony then we
    >disagree.

    We both agree and disagree, it seems.

    Fascism, in Mussolini’s own words, is an outgrowth of capitalism, and a reaction to capitalism, communism, and socialism, and the flaws of each one. Mussolini himself described Fascism as properly called Corporatism, and I do believe that Capitalism, unfettered, leads straight to Corporatism. The only step left to complete the transformation is to institute the strong nationalism that completes the picture, and if you disagree that those steps are happening, then yes. We’re just going to have to disagree.

    But really…there is no difference between the ‘hate on the Hispanics, shove the ultrasound wand up the women’s privates, wave the flag, kill all the Arabs and convert them to Christianity, rah rah rah’ Republicans and our resident moderate Right Corporatist Democrats? Yeah, no, I’m not buying it. (Just so you know, no, I don’t think the Dems are centrist Left and the Republicans are centrist Right. I think the Dems are centrist Right and the Republicans are bat-s**t-insane-lock-up-your-wives-and-children-the-crazy-is-in-town-so-far-right-they-broke-the-scale Crazy-Stupid Right.)

  • Bill_Perdue

    Fascism has no chance unless it’s a mass movement with tens of millions of adherents. It can’t be established by a coup d’état or by diktat. Fascists and their backers made big gains in places like England and the Ukraine but they have yet to establish a fascist state in this period. The mere presence of a police state, which Obama is diligently constructing, union busting and rabidly racist wars of aggression, all polices pursued by Obama, are not the same as a fascist state.

    The only real group capable of taking on fascist is the working class. That’s why they destroy unions, ban them and murder leaders of the unions and the left. ruder while ordinary right wingers like Obama and Romney limit themselves to union busting.

    I didn’t ‘admit’ that fascist groups would grow, I’ve been predicting it since the beginning of the current depression.

    If your only point is that the elements of fascist ideology are precursors of the formation of fascist mass movements then we agree. But if you say that fascism is not an outgrowth of capitalism in its death agony then we disagree.

    And if you say that Republicans are somehow more right wing than Democrats then you’re dead wrong. They are not. Both parties are right centrist parties with few real differences.

  • Denver Catboy

    I have always said, and will continue to say, that fascism comes in degrees. Of course our Fascism isn’t to the point of German or Italian Fascism of the 40s. Does that mean we’re not on our way there? You yourself say that they WILL grow, so even as you try to avert assigning ‘Fascist’ to either of our parties, you agree with me that they’re heading that direction.

    Look at history. Hitler didn’t start his reign of terror murdering Jews. He started it claiming that Jews and other undesirables (Communists included…) were sapping the vitality of the German nation. Likewise with Mussolini. His first statements were that Italy was being taken away by non-Italians, and that he would bring back prosperity for Italians by taking Italy back from the Non-Italians. Sound familiar?

    You have a point in that the US is not YET a Fascist country. But parallels between Mussolini’s Fascism of the early to mid 20s and today’s Right Wingers are pretty visible. We can’t be sure that jack-boots and brown shirts are in our future, but the surest way to make sure that happens is to look the other way and ignore the signs today.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Democrats are not part of the left. They’re not centrist and they not left centrists. They’re a right centrist party moving right with a militant rightist foreign policy and internal polices aimed at imposing austerity.

    The same is true of Republicans. The politics of both parties have absolutely nothing to with ‘structural reasons’ and everything to do with the fact that they’re both owned by and service the rich.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Neither the Democrats or the Republicans are fascist parties. They’re run of the mill, everyday, ordinary both right centrist parties that peruse rabidly racist foreign policies and that continue to attack workers and unions.

    They’re pro-capitalist parties and that’s what pro-capitalists do. That list that you and others cite is meaningless because it describes what capitalist parties and the far right have in common. It does not indicate that fascist political groups are the ultimate form of capitalist politics and that they have much in common.

    We are going to see the growth of a real fascist movement in the US and it will draw heavily from Libertarian and Teabag groups and also from the Democrat and Republican parties. Pat Buchanan could show up at a press conference in an SS uniform and no one would bat an eye.

    The fascists, when they do grow, will face an already radicalizing workers movement led by the left and labor left. Democrats and Republicans will not be able to deal with them and will accommodate to them, just as they accommodate to the rabid religious right today.

  • Bill_Perdue

    And this time there’s no Red Army to save them. Yet.

  • Indigo

    You know, Reagan’s win was the end of my confidence in my sense of public opinion. The American public would never elect a washed up, divorced B movie actor to a post as important as the Presidency. Impossible! But it happened.

  • 4th Turning

    #1. What happened to the L? #2. Downton Abbey is real, isn’t it?
    Happen to be reading a book right now by my latest hero. Frederick Law
    Olmsted-Walks and Talks of an American Farmer in England. His scathing summation of Brit 1850 prison reform could have been written yesterday. The “modern” penitentiary was a Geo. Fox/Quaker invention with the usual unanticipated consequences. Also happened to reread At Swim Two Boys over the Easter holiday. Am over the moon Irish if you can abide.Watched the recent state dinner which felt very parallel universe. Tom is the only one I’m hoping has a long and happy afterlife.

  • cambridgemac

    Funny that the Nazis immediately busted the trade union movement and the leadership of the socialist party. How do you account for that? Also, the fact that leftwing parties historically oppose anti-semitism and support extension of democratic rights to all, while rightwingers oppose democracy and favor giving the powerful (corporations, church, nobles) more license and fewer restrictions. Is this news to you?

  • cambridgemac

    Me, too. The CPUSA and the Socialist Workers Party both dropped off the ballot when Reagan ran and that was the end of protest voting opportunities for many years in Massachusetts. Now we have the greens.

  • DarkOverord

    Haha don’t worry. As a nation, we seem to think we’re more important than we are, or more specifically. How many of us seem to think we’re still the British Empire.

    A moral though? I think it’s pretty obvious really, having a huge bias in your media during a time of political unrest can lead to a massive swing that way. The only problem is there’s currently a large bias to UKIP here, hence their massive popularity.

    Course again, I’m British, can’t comment on how say, France, delt with the National Front in it’s media and so on.

  • 4th Turning
  • 4th Turning

    Hey, I just googled “Britain” and you’re right, it does show up as some sort
    of country! Looks like an archipelago (had to google that word, too) just at the side of a large land mass that could be a continent. Please overlook my
    labored attempt at humor-only trying to illustrate how far your scions have
    fallen in their grasp of history, current events, foreign intrigue, etc. with the
    exception, of course, of everyone who follows this blog.
    So. My next question. Is their a moral to your story that we might take to heart? Respecting that British reticence, but give it to me straight, doc,
    how long do I have?

  • Jeebus

    @4th Turning…. I’m sure some muskets and wigs and all sorts of other things were made in Great Britain too during America’s war for independence. So what?

  • Bill_Perdue

    May 11, 2013 – Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal — On May 5, the largest left protest ever against the policies of a French Socialist Party (PS) government took place in Paris. To the stirring sounds of the protest anthem “On Lâché Rien” (“We Don’t Give In”), up to 180,000 workers, pensioners, unemployed and students marched from the Bastille to Place de la Nation.

    They were demanding an end to economic austerity and for a democratic Sixth Republic that would overturn the present Fifth Republic, which is dominated by corrupt and entrenched financial and political elites. The symbol of the march was the kitchen broom, for the “clean sweep of this insufferable political atmosphere”, called for by Front de Gauche (Left Front) leader and 2012 presidential candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon…

    After some give-and-take among the Left Front’s nineaffiliated organisations, May 5 was called as a “Citizen’s march for the Sixth Republic—against finance and austerity”. Participants were obviously protesting against the systemic corruption revealed by the Cahuzac scandal. But their anger was most of all directed at the total failure of Socialist Party president François Hollande and the government of prime minister Jean-Marc Ayrault to counteract the austerity imposed by a European Commission, operating under the German hegemony of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) government of Angela Merkel.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fUHpNJyQz8#t=35 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgdVfg5DR0w#t=11

    The same process of challenging rightwing parties like the Democrats is underway here. Socialist and union backed candidates beat Democrat rightists in elections in Seattle and Ohio, and in Seattle raised the ante on Obama and the Democrats anti-worker minimum wage proposal. That example is sparking dozens of other local attempts aimed at educating and organizing workers and defeating Democrats and Republicans in the fall elections.

  • DarkOverord

    It is possible, though I don’t think so.

    What has happened in Britain (Sorry for the potentially patronising history lesson, making sure you and others know) is that in 2010 we actually had a hung parliament, meaning neither Labour or Conservative won an outright majority. The 3rd largest party, the Liberal Democrats, chose to form a coalition with the Tories/Conservatives which honestly at the time, was a move I agreed with. Unfortunately a few years later and overall the mood is that it was the wrong decision, and it’s harmed the Liberal Democrats massively. The LibDems used to be the party the left voted (I mean proper left too, so students, enviromentalists etc), and has lost that support to the Greens. (With the exception of one MP seat where a Green got elected in 2010)

    They certainly have risen up recently on enviromentalism, after being one of the major protesters of Fracking here and their general anti-nuclear stance. However from our recent politics, like I said, I don’t think I can just pin it on environmentalism/Climate Change.

  • kenthomes

    You are so right! I have been living in France now for about three years and am getting ready to move back to Spain, as I have been made distraught by the fake left wing party of Hollande (just like the Democrats in the United States) They are forward thinking on social issues, which is very important. However, they go along with the banks and monied class when it comes to their “austerity” policies. People who voted for the left WANT the so-called left to implement the policies they ran on! This has led to disgust and abstention, with much protest votes also.

  • 4th Turning

    Koch Bros. MD. Vasectomy Clinics now open 24/7. Friendly, fast service. Walk-ins welcome.

  • 4th Turning

    Was just wondering if all the recent climate change to do has given your Green Party a
    second wind. Any increase in interest/active participation from fence straddlers, others?

  • FieryLocks

    Guess all these jackasses didn’t learn from WWII.

  • Moderator3

    You have not been censored. However, you may be giving Godwin’s Law a new definition. Instead of going for the Nazi reference, you go for the troll reference.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/dameocrat Dameocrat

    Avarosis supported Hollande and the austerity government in the Ukraine. That is just a fact.

  • UncleBucky

    Fucking skinheads. Honestly. The more economically motivated people might have found a more moderate position, but the skinheads/rightwing have captured them much like in the early 20th century. Lovely.

  • Indigo

    The first half of your statement makes sense. The second half with its clumsy attack on our host makes little sense and displays a shocking lack of what Miss Manners might call sensitivity.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/dameocrat Dameocrat

    The socialist voted for austerity too. That is why no-one should be shocked at the low turnout, or that it benefited the right. Avarosis is willing to tolerate neoliberals leaving granny to die, so long as the support some rights for gays.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/dameocrat Dameocrat

    Economic factions have rights too. Hollande supported the sort of brutal austerity that has left children and the disabled in Greece dying on the streets. How does gay marriage compare to that. Those minorities that tolerate economic assaults from neoliberal politicians that are right wingers on economics are going to taste a bitter medicine and it will be something they willingly gave in to.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    We can thank the austerity policies imposed by the plutocratic oligarchs for this.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    And the People’s Republic of China is and never has been a republic. Nor North Korea anything like the Democratic People’s Republic it claims to be.

    Names mean nothing.

  • 4th Turning

    Regret my reply read that way to you. I thought the specifics you were
    taking time to point out missed what was being ridiculed by our fellow
    conservative Americans. Definitely feel the need for us to document
    everything as every inch of the photograph’s demonstration was
    being minutely monitored by thousands of not so hidden cameras.

  • Indigo

    That explains so much . . .

  • DarkOverord

    Hey, I don’t normally post on articles but I felt I should clear something up. You posted “Turnout was low, below 50%, which in Europe is pretty abysmal.”, I’d just like to inform you (and anyone who got this far down) that European Parliament Elections are generally this bad in turnout (not just saying this as a Brit, but as a European Citizen). Source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/000cdcd9d4/Turnout-%281979-2009%29.html. The EU hasn’t been great at voting for the MEP elections for a long time (ten years) honestly, they’re likely seen as a waste of time for countries that don’t enforce compulsory voting at elections.

    Speaking as a brit however. The Far Right have done as well as they did because people who wished to protest our main three parties were essentially directed there by the media. Instead of the “traditional” protest votes gaining voters in the elections recently, due to a lot of coverage of UKIP by the BBC, ITV, Sky and so on, essentially they’ve been made out to be the only alternate party other than Conservative/Labour/Liberal Democrats. We have the Greens (They thankfully have made some gains in our local and EU elections on Thursday/Sunday) but due to them not even being treated as an actual party they essentially got shoved out to make room for more “Should the main parties be worried about UKIP?”, “UKIP-mania sweeps Britain” etc. (And yes, our other parties have all promised referendums on the EU, even if they are pro-EU, funny that)

  • 4th Turning

    Ultimately it’s not about us. It’s about them…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvMiXk2gGSk

  • 4th Turning

    We call that being polite down South…

  • Denver Catboy

    What a convoluted mess.

    And none of my points were addressed, I see. Which means they still stand.

  • Indigo

    I suspect they do know better but they also know that that’s what they really think and they’re going to say so. Europeans are harder on each other than we Americans are. We make excuses for others as well as for ourselves, anything to dodge that Ancient Evil, candor and honesty, which we suspect is lurking under the bed.

  • 4th Turning

    First my caution never get lost in all the trees and fail to see the forest…
    This was posted on my other fav. blog. (Don’t be jealous John-you’re still
    numero unito.) Source was not cited. I think it safe to say this was “cleverly”
    crafted-the point overly labored as usual these days-to deflect attention from
    the truth (or close to truth) of our position by pointing out some of our own hypocrisies, contradictions, inconsistency, etc. The same simple-minded arguments that keep being “recycled” by climate change deniers, gay deniers, immigrant deniers, moon not made out of green cheese deniers.
    Personally can’t get my head around the left’s “manifesto” mentality even
    as I’m in agreement with its numerous 150 page lists of complaints,
    grievances (for you Bill P.), crankiness. I just bought a brand new pair
    of wranglers for when he gives out time and date for this summer’s
    million HUman march on dc.

  • 2karmanot

    Nice try, but no go. You don’t seem to particularly informed about ‘fascism’ and it’s socialist instruments.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcrEqIpi6sg Moderator4

    You are more than welcome to call any other commenter out and post your arguments against them.
    But we have all been moderating a long time, and have been on the Internet a long, long time.
    Commenters tend to throw the “troll” accusation around regarding anyone who disagrees with them, or who tries to change the conversation.
    This does not make those others a troll. Sign up to be a Moderator at a website, and you will come to appreciate what real trolling means.
    Disagree all you want. None of us have told you that you cannot push back against such commenters. None of us have deleted you.
    Of course, YMMV.
    Have a nice day.

  • AvidReader

    What do you want to bet Bill O’Reilly is going to discover a newfound affection for France now?

  • AvidReader

    Yes, protest voting must be done cautiously so as not to embolden the wrong people. Europe has a very nasty history with the far right. These voters should know better.

  • pappyvet

    I agree with your opinion concerning labels Jim. The Nazis were anything but Socialist and a new reality is without a doubt needed . However , identification has it’s uses. If someone walks up to me and identifies himself as a neo Nazi then I as a gay man should probably think twice about turning my back on him. That situation is easy to understand. The problem I see in the world today is that some have learned to toss the overt hatred in a drawer put on the Brooks Bros suit. The wolf has learned how to dress and use language very effectively. And though underneath that sheep’s clothing is a wolf at heart he will still garner a portion of the flock. Some sadly want to be wolves themselves. I agree with your insight and believe as I have always believed. That a very good starting point has already been discovered and put to paper for all the ages to see. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

    Shocking in it’s day. Should it have proclaimed that all PEOPLE are created equal? Undoubtedly. But it is not a stagnant declaration. It lives and breathes and challenges us to go forward not backward. Have we achieved these goals? Some.

    The Revolutionary War is not over. It is I think becoming global and we must still fight. Republicans, Democrats , this ism or that does help to identify but only on the margins. Instead we should focus on what is “self-evident” and cling to what should be but are yet to be “unalienable Rights.”

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    Just what am I supposedly defending? Republicans? Nope. Fascism? Nope.

    I find your 14-point list to be ridiculous as a ‘predictor’ of a path to fascism (it was created to note common characteristics within fascist governments and not a predictor), and because no weight is given to any of the 14-points on the list (how many non-fascist countries focus upon national security, how many capitalist countries protect corporations), it is really useless.

    The person locked away for a marijuana offense, while shameful and immoral, is in NO WAY comparable to being locked away for political opinions and/or dissent under a fascist regime.

    And you are an idiot if you believe otherwise.

  • Indigo

    There’s nothing “dear” about our Republican party.

  • Indigo

    You point being what?

  • Indigo

    Yes, protest voting is not unusual. I’m not willing to cast a vote for a Republican just to show how unhappy I am with the Democrats but I’m perfectly content to vote Green or even, ballot permitting, Socialist. I used to cast an occasional vote for CPUSA but they haven’t shown up on the ballot lately.

  • Indigo

    The 11 dimensional one? Barry’s using it.

  • Indigo

    National Socialism was for socialism for corporations, not the people, just the way we subsidize corporations now here in the States.

  • Indigo

    “Molinas molinan.” -old Spanish saying.

  • Denver Catboy

    I’ve been on the internet since it was young (making me old. :( ), and I can tell you that there are many different types of trolls. What you are describing is the obstinate fool, which itself may or may not be a troll. The essence of troll isn’t in making the same argument over and over again. It’s attempting to disrupt a conversation, IMO. If we let them do so, by not calling them out when they do it, the site’s comments suffer.

    But you’re the boss. I’m guessing since you signed in with your moderator account, that you’re using the force of your authority to tell me to back off on the accusations of trolling by commentors who come on and drag the conversation away. I’ll do so, but I will be greatly disappointed in that demand.

  • Denver Catboy

    Nice. An Ad Hominem. I see what sort of ‘debater’ you are. The kind that gets the name of a mythical Scandinavian monster, or a cheap meat-product, applied to it…but I’ve been asked not to call people that. :)

    Irony: I do caution people about going half-cocked into calling someone something, and I do mention that the word ‘Fascist’ is misused so much it’s almost lost its meaning. But in this case, the shoe DOES fit, and Fascist governments NEVER start with murdering and oppressing the undesirables. They always start with the rhetoric of ‘elect us and all your problems will go away’, and only later move to oppression and outright murder. In this case, the shoe fits…and I am not surprised that GarySFBCN and others like him would defend that.

    Tata, tro…err, yeah, I can’t say that. :)

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    “And I could go ON AND ON.”

    Yes, we see that. Time to go back to your bunker. The sky is falling.

  • Denver Catboy

    The person locked away for tens of years because she had an ounce of marijuana is not repressed?

    The person who is beaten and drug behind a car because he happens to like men romantically is not repressed?

    The person who gets raped and is forced to bear her rapists child, or who is allowed to _die_ before she is allowed to get an abortion is not repressed?

    The person who gets blackballed from industry because he expressed an opinion or lifestyle that the ruling elites disagreed with is not repressed?

    And I could go ON AND ON. IMO, one of us is dead wrong on this and needs to rethink their position, and I’m going to be so bold as to say it’s not me.

    Fascism comes in degrees. If you wish to blind yourself to it because they aren’t out murdering the undesirables (yet), that’s your choice. But I’m sure not going to listen to you. :)

  • Denver Catboy

    Question: What is this supposed to say? Are we supposed to show up at protests not wearing any clothing, not carrying anything, not using anything? Are we supposed to forgo the 21st Century because corporations are scumbags? And if we don’t, our point is somehow invalid?

    Right-wing tools, or that other word I’ve been told I shouldn’t use. :), LOVE to keep making this claim. I wonder why.

    Perhaps because Occupy has been painted as a hippy organization. I mean, if the clean-shaven guy didn’t use those EBIL CORPORATE RAZORS, he’d be unshaven and could be accused of being a hippy. If the gap-wearing professional or the Clairol-Dyed woman didn’t wear their respective products, they could be dismissed as kooks instead of common representatives of the corporate society that exploits us all.

    And if we didn’t use mobiles from Samsung or Apple, then we would lose all the benefits of technology. No computers means we can’t connect with like-minded people as efficiently as social media makes this possible. It’s harder to get our thoughts out to the bigger world, and easier to control us.

    And no cameras means the police can abuse us and it’s all their words against ours, without any video representation of the events that went down.

    Sounds to me like this argument that just because corporations treat us like dirt means we shouldn’t use anything a corporation makes just is a way to de-legitimize us and disempower us.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    I wrote murder and REPRESSION. So there was no repression under Mussolini, Hitler, Tito, Franco, et. al.?

    What we have today in the US is an oligarchy, not fascism. You do harm to those truly living under fascism by saying otherwise.

  • Denver Catboy

    I did indeed state that the Republicans were far worse than the Democrats. But let’s see something here.

    1, 2, and 3: Definitely Republican.
    4: Republican and Democrat (the latter so afraid of being accused of being ‘weak on terror’ and ‘against the troops’ they’ll throw in with the Surveillance State and the MIC in a heartbeat)
    5 and 6: Definitely Republican.
    7: Like 4, both, and for the same reasons.
    8: Definitely Republican.
    9: Both. The Republicans, obviously, and the Democrats, using the Republicans as cover, giving handouts to Big Business.
    10: The Republicans, but the Democrats help a bit. They talk a big talk, but walk a much smaller walk, and blame Republicans for it.
    11: Definitely Republican, again.
    12: Both. Many prominent Democrats have criticized Colorado and Washington for decriminalizing pot quite publicly, and the Dems are as afraid of being tarred ‘weak on crime’ as they are ‘weak on defense’.
    13 and 14: Solidly Republican.

    Of the 14, Democrats are complicit in 4 and assist in 1 more. 5/14 = 35%, not 10%. It’s fair to support a particular party over another, and make no mistake: I do support the Democrats in this dysfunctional system we have, but don’t do so blindly, emjayay.

  • Denver Catboy

    While you have a _TINY_ point that we haven’t (yet) gotten as bad as Nazi Germany, you assume that what makes a Fascist country is murderousness.

    It does not. Italy had none of the mass purges that Germany had. In fact, Mussolini viewed Hitler’s purges as wasteful and overly simplistic and Hitler himself as a bore. The only reason they were allied was for convenience. I’m not so sure the alliance would have been maintained for long, given both parties differing views on a great many things (and the need of a Fascist government for enemies).

    To miss the views of Fascism in today’s Republican party because they’re not out rounding up Blacks and Gays and Hispanics for the concentration camps is blindness. Furthermore, to miss Fascism today because there isn’t murderous behavior increases the chance that you will get the murderous behavior you demand before you’ll call it Fascism.

  • 4th Turning

    “Millstones of Justice turn exceedingly slow, but grind exceedingly fine.”
    ~John Bannister Gibson (1780-1853), American jurist, Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

    “Mills of the Gods,
    Grind exceedingly slow,
    But grind exceedingly fine…”
    ~Euripides (485-406 BC)

  • FLL

    Your point is well taken, but the problem lies not in the mere existence of the private business sector, but in the concentration of wealth therein because of the way Reagonomics changed the corporate tax rate. The effective corporate tax rate during the 1950s was about 50%, whereas today it is between 15% and 35%. Who would object to returning to the 50% corporate tax rate of the 1950s? Two political parties that I can think of:

    (1) the present-day Republican Party
    (2) the Maoist Shining Path Revolutionary Party of My Mother’s Basement

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    Those ‘points’ are meaningless if you think that life under Bush resembled any of the truly fascist regimes in Europe in the last century.

    I despise everything that we’ve allowed to happen to our country. But there’s NO COMPARISON between our Republican (and sometimes Democrat) thuggery and the repression and murder of citizens under European fascist dictatorships.

  • 4th Turning

    From my Ukrainian friend this a.m.

    I hope we’ve elected our president.It was rather peaceful in Kiev and there was an incredible activity of people.I had to stay in a line (in a queue) for an hour to vote.Some people stood in a line for 2 or 3 hours.I have never seen such activity of my people.Maybe God really helped us.On the eve of election day people of all confessions were praying for Ukraine.I’m not a keen believer,my attitude to God is very complicated but when so many people at the same time have their only wish,I think, heavens cannot stay indifferent.Thank you for your support.Natasha.

    I am deeply ashamed to foresee a no-waiting-on-line, indifferent turnout this Nov. and in ’16.The
    all-wise, all-knowing left’s retribution/punishment for weak, drone-happy/Guantanamo-loving Obama/Clinton political shenanigans.
    Six years of our own home-brewed far, far right is the infinitely better way to go.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    Some of these ‘far-right’ votes were indeed anti-EU votes. That the right is able to foment fear and hatred to garner votes is nothing new.

    There are some potential bright spots: Spaniards rejected the two ruling parties, which were expected to get 65% of the vote and only got 49%. That and the United Left getting 10% of the vote, combined with the fact that a party that didn’t exist before March 11th, 2014, “Podemos”, got almost 8% of the vote. Podemos is an spin-off of the Spanish ‘occupy’ movement.

    Here is their website (in Spanish):

    http://podemos.info/

  • 4th Turning
  • emjayay

    Our constitutional system always tends toward two parties only for structural reasons, unlike parliamentary systems. This means the leftish party will have some rightish bits, although today certainly in part the existence of a half-black president plus a lot of social change has resulted in a rather right to crazed-right rightish party. Of what you listed, about 90% characterizes the Republican party, not the Democratic one.

  • emjayay

    Don’t forget “Healthy Forests.” (Calling Dr. Orwell…)

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    Spock, do you have the chessboard ready? :)

  • Moderator3

    I wish I was able to show you what some real trolls do. They make the same comment over and over and over. They may change some words, but it is basically the same comment. They are often into name calling. In determining if someone is a troll, you need to check their past comments.That information is available to everyone. I’m not here to censor you. You did not need to change a word.

  • Hue-Man

    The 2002 French presidential election is a cautionary tale; Jean-Marie Le Pen faced off against Jacques Chirac in the final run-off election, despite winning less than 20% of the votes. Multiple parties and campaign errors by one of the “mainstream” parties could easily lead to far-right parties gaining power with only 20% to 30% of the national vote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_presidential_election,_2002

  • Denver Catboy

    Moderator, in defense of my comment, I point out that his comment got away from talking about the rise of ugly right-wing paranoia in Europe, a topic he may not be happy to talk about, to quite erroneously attributing Fascism to the Left. In short, rather than deal with the fact that Fascism is rooted in many right-wing ideals, and is being borrowed from by the GOP and other right-wing movements today, he’d rather disrupt conversation and pull us on to what he wants to talk about, how Fascism/Nazism has to be Left-Wing because it uses ‘Socialist’ in its title.

    How is that NOT trolling?

  • RepubAnon

    One needs more variables than right/left. Here’s a two-dimensional one from the 1960s:

    Take the “x-axis” and label it right/left. Take the “y-axis” and label it authoritarian/anarchical. (For a three-dimensional view, take the “z-axis” and label it unrestricted free market / totally state-controlled.)

    Now, place the various political parties on the graph. Stalin’s Communists are left/authoritarian/totally state-controlled markets. Nazis are right/authoritarian/ [I believe there was some market regulation, but I’m not sure how much].

    You can add more variables, but don’t fall into the simplistic trap of thinking that “socialist” in a party name means anything. Look at their policies.

  • cole3244

    the elites in most nations institute policies that invigorate the right because the right are easier to control and manipulate, leading a mob to hate and discriminate is a day at the beach for the fascist thinking elites in all nations.

    having a bogeyman to pass off as the problem to all of life’s troubles solves a multitude of complicated answers to questions elites won’t or can’t answer, and having the 99% fighting among themselves solves all problems at least in the short term.

  • Denver Catboy

    Fascism is a term that has been misused and overused so much, it almost has no meaning. Quite like Communism, for that matter.

    But I’ve been seeing disturbing trends towards Fascism in the Republican Party of my country, as well as the Democratic Party (though the latter is far less overt in it). Right now, our country has two wings, a right-centrist coalition that includes some lefties, and a bat$#!+ insane far-right kookfest that makes even the left-wing kooks seem tame in comparison.

    How Fascist are we talking? Let’s talk the 14 characteristics, shall we?

    1) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism.

    So much flag-waving and ‘support the troops’, so little concern for what it really means to be American. To dissent against the flag-waving and troop-supporting is to be called un-American, and if you don’t fully agree with them, you’re not a ‘true American’.

    2) Disdain for the recognition of human rights.

    The blacks can go back to drinking from their own water fountains, gays are EBIL, and anyone who dares believe any differently than they do (that is, Southern Baptist) are influenced by the devil and should be shunned from society. And hell, if any ‘common decency’ gets in the way of Profits, out it goes in worship of the Almighty Dollar.

    3) Identification of Enemies and Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause.

    Hmm. Hispanics. Muslims. Gays. Welfare queens. Yep…

    4) Supremacy of the Military.

    We spend more than the next 16 countries COMBINED, and that spending is sacrosanct. Even the suggestion of a minor cut to military expenditures, EVEN THOSE RECOMMENDED BY THE MILITARY ITSELF, and screamed against.

    5) Rampant Sexism

    “War on Women.” Specifically, making laws to shove medical instruments up women’s privates, gutting their medical care ’cause GAWD’, making horrible comments like ‘women don’t get pregnant from rape,’ and other nasty pieces of BS like this. I rest my case.

    6) Controlled Mass Media

    How often do we say the MSM is bought and paid for. Fox is virtually the GOP’s media organization. It’s not quite as overt as it could be, but it is getting there.

    7) Obsession with National Security

    This damns both the Left AND the Right. The NSA, founded on Bush’s watch, is now stronger than ever on Obama’s. You’re told if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, because if we don’t tap your phones and read your emails, the terrorists win. FEAR the Terrorists!

    8) Religion and Government Intertwined.

    Mussolini made it very clear that religion is a tool to be used by the State as long as the Clergy backs the State. He made it very clear that the Vatican had a seat at the table, and the Vatican looked away from his and his underlings very anti-Christian (in the sense of not caring for those less fortunate) behavior. Power begat power, and so it does again. The Southern Baptists are as much an arm of the GOP as Fox News is, and many of the GOP’s policies are religious motivated (Anti-Gay, Anti-Abortion). Since the SBs are willing to play ball, the GOP has a seat reserved for them, and they’ll gladly go with the GOP because that gives them power over others. CLASSIC Fascism of the Mussolini sort.

    9) Corporate Power protected.

    Mussolini famously stated that Fascism could also be called Corporatism. Like Religion, Corporations are a steward of control over the plebes. Argue against the State? You’re jobless now. As long as the Corporations played by the rules and weren’t owned by ‘undesirables’, then they had a seat close to the head of the table.

    10) Labor Power Suppressed.

    Many Righties try to claim that since the German variety of Fascism was called ‘National Socialism’, that they had to be Left. Quite the contrary, both Hitler and Mussolini had no use for labor organizations. To be opposed to the power of the corporation was to be opposed to the power of the State, and since the Corporations had a seat at the table, there was no room for the Labor movement. While it’s inaccurate to state that Fascism is Right-Wing, it’s also inaccurate to state it’s Left-Wing either. Mussolini referred to his ideology as ‘Third-Way’ when it came to economics, and was just as opposed to Communism as he was to unfettered Capitalism. But see #9 above.

    And what do you know. The GOP has no use for pro-labor camps. Supposedly if you’re unhappy where you are, you just get another job, or you deal with it because what’s good for corporate America is good for all of us, even if you don’t have a job or struggle just to pay the bills and keep a roof over your head.

    11) Disdainful of Arts and Intellectuals

    “Too much education and people vote Democrat.” Need I say any more? The Right has been disdainful of academia basically forever, unless Academia agrees with them. Majority of economists blame Bush for our rough road economically? “Left-Wing Kooks!” They state that we’re the cause of the climate instability currently going on? “Their religion is science!” This is just the TIP of the iceberg.

    12) Obsession with Crime and Punishment

    Which party is ‘tough on crime’? Which brought us the War on Drugs? Also pair this with 9, and we get the For-Profit Jail System, which benefits when people are incarcerated. Also, add on top of this the problem we have with unfettered surveillance, and we get back to #7. All of this brought to us by the GOP, and sadly enhanced by the Democrats.

    13) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

    Tow the line, you can get away with almost anything in BOTH parties. You only end up getting in trouble if you inconvenience someone more powerful than you. This is equal parts Left and Right, and the Left side used the Right to protect its own cronyism. “Oh, you don’t like that my brother’s now got a billion dollar contract? What are you gonna do about it? Vote for the guy who will shove an ultrasound wand up your wife’s privates?” *smirk*

    14) Fraudulant Elections.

    While Fraud is never absent, I give you this statistic. In 2012, the Democrats won 1.5 million more votes than the Republicans did in Representative races, yet the GOP held the House. Why is that? Because of redrawn electoral districts that disenfranchised Democrats and empowered Republicans. Are the Democrats free of election fraud? Probably not. Are the Republicans far better at it? Hell yeah.

    Under Bush’s regime, we saw all of the above points hit. Even with Obama elected, many still hold true today. Part of that is because the powers that be are willing to slip politicians of either political stripe cashola so they get what they want, and part of it is the afore-mentioned ‘what are you gonna do, vote for the other guy? *smirk*’. The end result? We ALL lose.

  • RepubAnon

    Gee, far-right parties touting scapegoats and nationalism chalk up big wins during a prolonged period of economic suffering. How shocking – there’s no historical precedent for that to happen… except, say, during the 1930s.

  • Demosthenes

    Pretty depressing election. These parties make our GOP look like a neighborhood debating club. Europe needs less austerity and more pro-growth policies.

  • Elijah Shalis

    You probably believe in Clean Coal too.

  • Moderator3

    Use the word “troll” sparingly. I see nothing troll-like in the comment. Although, it’s entirely possible that someone came here looking for a fight.

  • http://thebrainpolice.blogspot.com microdot

    So much fluster and media hype. When you think that this “historic” victory by the FN means a few measly delgates. You can count on Marine to over play her cards here. She already has….in her crowing celebratory comments she has already thanked Hollande for making the victory possible and in effect said she owed it all to the mindlessly confused “les Francais les plus faibles psychologiquement” for voting for her party.

  • Denver Catboy

    Hi, trolikins. I know you’re not really here to debate, but perhaps other people can learn from your FAIL.

    Hitler despised socialists and communists as much as he despised jews. In fact, if you go read a book, you’ll see that Hitler’s Germany notched up an impressive kill count against the socialists as well.

    Another book you could pick up, Mussolini’s On Fascism, might tell you how he felt about the Right vs. Left BS that you and those like you constantly spew. Mussolini had no room for that BS, because he saw that as detracting from your fealty to the state. So he advocated for something he called the ‘third way’. Essentially, he wanted the workers and the corporations to be on the same page, which is ‘tow the line and put the State above all else.’ He did this by giving cooperative corporations a seat at the table, and ruthlessly busting all unions as ‘communist sympathizers’. In fact, he was quite pro-corporation, and believed that Fascism was best defined as Corporatism — because, you know, nothing keeps the plebes in line quite like the threat of being jobless and broke.

    While Hitler’s brand of Fascism varied slightly from Mussolini’s (Mussolini saw no value in gassing Jews, for instance), he agreed with Mussolini on many things. The only corporations Hitler had trouble with were the Jewish owned corporations, which he promptly stripped of resources, had the owners killed, then handed the market and resources over to loyal Germans.

    You spew so much BS it’s not funny. Anyone who spends just the TINIEST amount of time reading Hitler’s and Mussolini’s work can refute you. The only way you continue to exist is by willful ignorance, which is quite sad.

  • Elijah Shalis

    You must be a Republican because you probably think those Republican bills like the clean skies initiative really clean the air too.

  • Elijah Shalis

    Yeah but I don’t see them ever getting the majority. The only one that surprised me was Denmark. I didn’t even know they had a far right movement.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Far right and fascist parties have been on the offensive from the Ukraine and Greece to France and England at the expense of fake leftists like the social democrats of the Parti socialiste and right leaning workers parties like Labour. In England these results show that the trend established in last years local elections was not a flash in the pan where Tories and the LibDems lost big time, Labour’s results were stagnant and the UKIP got 163 positions on local councils. They made some gains at the expense of centrists.

    Part of that is due to the weak response the fake leftists to austerity and to the US backed fascist putsch in Ukraine and Merkel’s attempts to extend the reach and profits of the Deutsche Bundesbank and the IMF. And much of it is due to the disgust of voters whose options seem to be limited to choices between rotten apples and decomposed oranges.

    Working class voters want an end to austerity and they won’t get it from the Tories, the UKIP or Labour. They’re searching.

    The real fight, as events progress, will be between the right and parties backed by the rich and leftist and left leaning workers parties and unions. Groups like Socialist Resistance and the The Trade Union and Socialist Coalition are going to have to mount major campaigns to end austerity and to build unions as well as mounting an electoral strategy aimed at educating and organizing working people, who are the only group with the muscle and the will to defeat the right and the fascists. LGBT organizations have to support and align with those efforts and win support for our own struggles in those arenas.

    Below – England, Anti fascist demonstration by SYRIZA, the Coalition of the Radical Left in Greece and Oleh Tyahnybok, a Ukrainian fascist leader

  • http://thebrainpolice.blogspot.com microdot

    Too many people make the tragic error of playing with labels and past applications of words. It’s like the Republicans trying to say they are the part of equal rights just because at one time, at the birth of the party, Lincoln was a Republican. If you want to make a point, you have start to deal with present reality and stop playing word games with the past.

  • FLL

    In Ukraine’s presidential race, Petro Poroshenko won 54% in a field of 21 candidates. Um… can you say landslide? We now ask Mr. Poroshenko, “Well, exactly who are you supposed to be?” Amnesty International has some recent background, although their Russian-to-English translation is a little awkward in places:

    According to the official website of Amnesty International in Ukraine, experts estimate organizations first programs of the candidates, and then sent each a questionnaire on topics that are of concern of human rights defenders. As a result, ten of the candidates submitted their answers, which were incorporated in the final evaluation. One of the questions that was asked the candidates for the highest office in the country – opposition to discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity and promoting diversity.

    The survey showed that only one candidate, Poroshenko, stands for equality of rights for all and the prohibition of discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity in all spheres. Vasily Kuibida nezakonotvorcheskih proposed the introduction of measures to overcome discrimination against LGBT people. Alexander Klimenko, Vasyl Tsushko, Anatoly Gritsenko, Yulia Tymoshenko and Oleg Tyahnibok expressed in their responses against discrimination in general, apart from the discrimination against LGBT group hot topic, Renat Kuzmin said raising this issue as “inappropriate”, and Andrew Grynenko believes that this problem does not exists.

    This excerpt is from a Ukrainian LGBT website, http://lgbt.org.ua/ru/news/show_1436/, and the reade can use the Chrome browser in order to click the “translate” button at the top for an English translation. Please note that the country code in the URL is “ua” (Ukraine). I’d like the Putinistas on this blog to show me a website whose URL is “http://lgbt.org.ru”. No, I don’t think so. There is no free Internet in Putin’s Russia.

  • Jim Hlavac

    NAZI is an acronym for “National Socialist” — and Socialists are usually perceived of as on the Left. So why are you calling these people “Far right” — or have the socialists now migrated to the “right” while the liberty lovers are now “liberal” on the Left? And if the Communists, or International Socialists, which were (are) anti-Semitic, anti-gay, etc, (China comes to mind) are on the left – is it then true that the entire political spectrum is socialists of one kind or another. To the left of us are socialists, to the right of us are socialists – are then are we all “moderate socialists” in the middle?

    Look, I don’t like these parties’ stances on anything really — but surely we have to come up with a some new sort of political spectrum — based on ideas rather than labels — so how about we put all those calling for government action to get rid of “enemies of the people” — no matter what their label, on one side — and all those who are for “live and let live” on the other — and in this way we can better understand the concepts and ideas behind the labels. I don’t care whether we call the Right the bad side, or the Left the bad side — but the way the spectrum is given now — on both sides are bad socialists …

  • http://thebrainpolice.blogspot.com microdot

    You are correct about the French “protest vote” and apathy. Though, the EU was a French/German concept, the constitution failed to be ratified in the referendum when Chirac was president. France is experiencing it’s voter apathy “Tea Party” moment. The majority of voters who voted for the FN were under 30. They have no frame of reference as to why this organization is so extremely vile and dangerous. The disorganized almost painfully amateur Hollande government was almost totally absent in the news leading up to this election. The only person who had any effect was Manuel Valls, the Prime Minister. He was out there. He went to Spain and gave a lot of moral support to the Spanish Left. The UMP, though doing better than the Socialists is in deep trouble and the rise of the FN can be credited to Sarkozy and his attempt to manipulate the base of the FN. It only gave credibility and energized a party that a few years ago was considered over. The Correze was the only departement that went totally Socialist. We kept Jose Bove as a delegate. But the Ecologists in general are so fractured and disorganized and the only message the general population gets from them is the spectre of more taxes. The FN has learned a lot about packaging itself and how much more effective obstructionism is over having any real ideas or solutions. They have gotten so much funding and assistance from the American Far Right Think Tanks and PACS. The Far Right has learned so much from the shining example of of America. I remain 100% ANTIFA FOREVER!

  • olandp

    In a parliamentary syster what does 25% of the vote mean? What does 12% mean? Surely a coalition government can form without them. I know terms can be different in Europe, but wouldn’t even far right still endorse austerity?

  • Richard Thomas

    I’m bound to say, commenting from Europe, that, disregarding the relatively recent history of the Front National for example ( a big disregard I allow), much of the policy and rhetoric of the European right is not vastly different from that of your own dear Republican party. If you take what UKIP can be discerned as saying on such matters as immigration, social spending, aggressive foreign policy and military spending, they seem smack in the middle of the Republicans. That of course invites the observation how close to fascism is the right of that party?

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