Cliven Bundy is a seditious liar, not a patriot

As a resident of the American Southwest — New Mexico to be exact — I’ve become familiar with complicated interplay of federally-owned lands, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), state lands, reservations, and even this interesting notion of ‘land grants’ which sometimes date back to before there were states in this part of the country.

We also have more than our share of radical libertarians and wingnuts. So I’ve been watching the Cliven Bundy situation in Nevada with a fair amount of interest because all of these elements are in play.

Long story short: Bundy is not the states-rights patriot he claims to be, but appears to be a law-breaking liar who has — quite literally — said he doesn’t believe in the legitimacy of the United States government. Not just since a black man became President, but EVER.

Pretty much the opposite of ‘patriot’ in every respect.

The Cliven Bundy story in a nutshell

Bundy owns a 160-acre cattle and melon ranch in Clark County, Nevada, near the town of Bunkerville, which is on the Virgin River — close to the Nevada-Arizona-Utah borders. Interstate-15 runs right through the area. This much is not at all in dispute. (BTW, the Virgin River is one of the feeders into Lake Meade, site of Hoover Dam.)

Fox News' version of Cliven Bundy.

Fox News’ version of Cliven Bundy.

In 1993, in response to reports that a local desert tortoise was dying off and that cattle were doing too much damage, the Feds began restricting access to cattle grazing on federally-owned lands throughout the entire region.

On top of denying access to some areas and more strictly enforcing grazing fees in others, the Feds began limiting which grazing ranges were open in any given year and how many cattle were allowed on the allotments.

Nevada’s Clark County also bought up and retired all of the remaining grazing leases in the nearby Gold Butte area, south of Bunkerville.

Well, Cliven Bundy refused to pay. He’s also defied repeated orders not to graze his cattle on protected federal lands.

He claims there is no such thing as federally-owned land and that there is no Constitutional basis for the Interior Department or the BLM. Yes, he’s that far out there.

Time and time again, Bundy went to court, including an appeal to the 9th Circuit in 1998, in which Bundy represented himself. His claims have invariably been nonsensical and at odds with established facts and laws.

In the ’98 case, a federal judge issued a permanent injunction ordering Bundy to remove his cattle from federal lands. By 2014, the unpaid fines and fees are now in excess of $1 million. He’s never paid a dime.

In August 2013, he was given 45 days by the BLM to remove his cattle, or they would be seized and sold off to pay the fines. Bundy refused. (Actually, the BLM has warned him a whole bunch of times over the years to remove the cattle or risk forfeiture.)

Last April, in response to a BLM move to seize Bundy’s cattle which were still grazing illegally on federal land, he rounded up about hundred friends, relatives, and would-be allies and began threatening BLM rangers and federal employees.

The militia types from out-of-state also showed up, heavily armed. They talked openly about firing on BLM rangers and federal law enforcement officers. In one report, one of the militia types — a retired sheriff from Arizona and member of the Oath Keepers (a radical Bircher-related militia movement) — Richard Mack, said they were planning to put the women and children in front. How courageous.

“I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die,” he said. “I would’ve gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”

“But the best ploy would be to have had women at the front,” he continued. “Because, one, I don’t think they would have shot them. And, two, if they had, it would have been the worst thing that we could have shown to the rest of the world, that these ruthless cowards hired by the federal government will do anything.”

Right, because there’s nothing cowardly about using unarmed women and children as human shields so the heavily armed menfolk don’t get killed first.

In an effort to defuse the situation and avoid bloodshed, the BLM backed down, for now.

“I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing”

Cliven Bundy and his allies have never won in a court of law, whether it’s Nevada state or a federal court. In a radio interview in April, he said, I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing.

Cliven Bundy and his friends say they’re patriots, but they deny the authority of our elected federal government — and apparently Nevada state, too, whenever it suits them.

Sedition: (noun) (1) incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government. (2) any action, especially in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

(Source: Dictionary.com)

Sound familiar?

Cliven Bundy is either a liar…or a serious exaggerator

In many of the early reports, Bundy is quoted as claiming his family had been ranching there since 1877. According to a report by KLAS:

“I’ve lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvement”

Well, that first sentence is more or less true. The rest is sovereign citizen gobbledygook.

And the claim of his ancestors being there, with legal rights to the land since 1877, is not true. KLAS-TV out of Las Vegas and their investigative reporter, Nathan Baca, has done some terrific research and reporting on that particular claim of inherited rights that would predate the creation of the BLM itself in 1946.

Bundy’s father didn’t start grazing cattle there until 1954

Clark County records show that Cliven Bundy’s parents bought his ‘ancestral’ 160 acre ranch in 1948, and didn’t start grazing cattle on the adjacent federal lands until 1954. Prior to that, they lived in Arizona. Bundy himself was born in 1946.

“All my life” apparently doesn’t include his first two years.

 

See Jon Stewart's segment on Bundy's madness below.

See Jon Stewart’s segment on Bundy’s madness below.

According to court records, his father grazed cattle for several years in the Bunkerville Allotment, then stopped. Then presumably Bundy himself resumed in 1973, paying the required fees until 1993 when he stopped paying but kept grazing. After being served with several notices in 1994 to pay up or remove the cattle, he asserted ‘vested grazing rights’ — which have never been upheld in any court, nor has Bundy offered any documented proof of those rights when given numerous chances to do so.

Bundy has further claimed, “My rights are before the BLM even existed, but my rights are created by beneficial use. Beneficial use means we created the forage and the water from the time the very first pioneers come here.”

Again, apparently the rights Bundy claims also predate his ancestor’s presence in the immediate vicinity of his current ranch. And he weirdly claims he’s creating the water and the grass his cattle herds have been using up. Last I checked, Mother Nature took care of that sort of thing.

The term ‘beneficial use’ by the way is a term from the original 1862 Homesteading Act, whereby a family could lay claim to lands in certain designated areas, pay a small fee, and as long as they improved it and lived on it, they could claim title after five years. The Act itself was repealed in 1976, and in any case was limited to claims of just 160 acres total. It has never been recognized as an authority to seize or use federally-owned lands not listed as eligible for homesteading. (BTW, it’s no accident that Bundy’s ranch is 160 acres.)

According to additional reporting from KLAS’s Steve Karnigher, no Bundys lived in Bunkerville NV in 1930 or 1940. Bundy’s mother and her parents lived in the neighboring town of Mesquite, with census records from 1930 indicating John and Christena Jensen (Bundy’s maternal grandparents) were from Utah, which is about another 20-30 miles up the present-day I-15. They did have a farm (usually not considered the same thing as a cattle ranch), but it’s reported to have been near Main Street in Mesquite.

Although Bundy’s assertion is his right to graze and water his cattle on federal lands comes from his mother’s side of the family, he can point to no document, no contract, no license or agreement, and no law establishing this inheritable right in perpetuity. Just his specious assertion that the Federal government cannot legally own land inside any state — an assertion that has been dismissed repeatedly in state and federal courts.

Indeed, the only established legal rights he has under the law are the water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River, associated with the 160-acre ranch which was purchased from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt in 1948. There are no records of inherited grazing rights, pre-emptive rights, special rights, or grandfathered federal land use rights assigned to Bundy or his ancestors.

Basically, Bundy claims grazing rights on the federally-owned lands adjacent to his property because he says so.

Irony abounds

One of the militia types in from Alaska, a man named Justine Giles, who is apparently as history- and irony-challenged as Bundy himself, remarked, “They are literally treating western United States citizens, ranchers, rural folks like this are the modern-day Indians. We’re being driven off of our lands.”

Bundy says his claim dates to 1877. The irony is that in 1875, the local Paiute Indians were forced off those lands into reservations so white men could move in and seize them.

Two years earlier, in 1873, the same land Bundy now owns and uses to grow his melons and raise cattle had been promised to the Paiute. A promise broken, obviously.

Those ‘pioneers’ of the late 19th century stole the land from the indigenous people already living there.

Bundy is a moocher, and he’s stealing from all of us

It costs money for the Interior Department’s Bureau of Land Management and National Parks Service to manage the lands they’re in charge of. There are access roads to maintain, firefighters to deal with range fires, reclamation efforts, soil and water conservation — and the need to repair the damage done by overgrazing.

A big chunk of the BLM and NPS budgets comes from the Federal government — funded by us taxpayers — because although they can charge licensing fees for the grazing, farming, and mineral rights they regularly lease out, these fees are just a fraction of fair value and actual cost of management.

For example, for the last 30 years, the BLM has charged a mere $1.34 per animal per month (AUM) of grazing. That’s less than a quarter of what it costs the BLM to manage the lands. In 2004, the GAO estimated that private grazing fees, in today’s 2014 dollars, to be $10-29 AUM.

From Salon (emphasis added):

The public lands livestock grazing program uses approximately 250 million acres of the arid west, with permitted users paying a pittance to the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) or the Forest Service for the privilege to do so. And it is truly a pittance. When Bundy stopped paying BLM in 1993, he owed just $1.86 per animal unit month for his mama cows, or $3,348 to use the land year-round. But Bundy refused to pay the fees because he didn’t want to reduce his herd to just 150 animals in order to help save the Mojave desert tortoise, a species given an emergency Endangered Species Act listing, and whose existence is specifically threatened by livestock competition for scarce desert vegetation and direct crushing and trampling of tortoise burrows. Bundy’s non-payment of fees was coupled with non-cooperation about getting his cows off the range. Since 1993, Bundy’s herd has ranged from 550 to more than 900 animals, far more than he was ever legally permitted. His cows have roamed over a much broader area than he was ever legally allowed to use. Without accounting for the legal expenses incurred by BLM and the costs of last week’s failed roundup, Bundy has since racked up a million dollar bill for overdue fees, trespass fees, and fines.

The lands Cliven Bundy claims as his own, to do with as he pleases, belong to all of us. Through our federal government and its laws, we elected to try to preserve a portion of those near-desert range lands, even as ranchers are being treated exceedingly generously with those ridiculously low grazing fees.

But that’s not good enough for a man like Bundy, a man who denies the United States even exists as a legitimate nation.

I’ll give him this much: He’d rather take a stand and cheat the rest of us out of the few thousand bucks a year he’d otherwise owe than to admit the federal government of the United States of America has any authority over him, a citizen not of America but of the sovereign and apparently independent nation-state of Nevada.

However, these are not the beliefs and positions of an American patriot. They’re the acts of a man committing an act of rebellion against lawful authority, a man whose patriotism and allegiance is not to any nation or state, but to himself alone.

The funny thing is he’s not even being a patriot to Nevada either, whose government’s position is he should pay for the damned grazing licenses like everybody else.


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And here’s on Stewart’s take on Cliven Bundy, from Monday night:


Published professional writer and poet, Becca had a three decade career in technical writing and consulting before selling off most of her possessions in 2006 to go live at an ashram in India for 3 years. She loves literature (especially science fiction), technology and science, progressive politics, cool electronic gadgets, and perfecting Hatch green chile recipes. Fortunately for this last, Becca and her wife currently live in New Mexico. @BeccaMorn

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  • Nishi Hundan

    Cliven Bundy farts too much

  • Aquaria

    We work. It’s the rich that don’t, stupid.

  • Aquaria

    Women and children aren’t human beings to scumbags like this. They’re property, and this filth thinks he can do what he wants to his property.

  • meglon978

    As opposed to conservatives who are now farther right than Mussolini’s fascists?

  • meglon978

    Personally i love it when people misuse that quote from Jefferson.

    Jefferson did say that, but the question he was responding to was how he felt about the deaths of the insurgents during Shay’s rebellion. Jefferson, in a nutshell (and please, for once in your life, go read the letter) said that every now and then, because of ignorance or deception, there will be a rebellion against the government. At that time, the government’s job is to pacify the rebels, and to pardon those that it doesn’t have to kill…. and that killing some of those rebels is just how it happens.

    A patriot is someone who supports their country. Bundy is not a patriot… he doesn’t even recognize the United States existing. In addition, he’s rallied a group of armed men who have, for all intentional purposes, taken up arms against the United States. All of them are engaged in an insurrection, and seditious conspiracy.

    This is nothing more than the Whiskey Rebellion redux. During the Whiskey Rebellion, George Washington himself called up the militia (the real militia, the military of the United States of America… not a bunch of inbred, beer bellied, cowards like Bundy has who never had the balls to actually serve this country) and rode out to pacify the rebellion.

    The problem in this country is we have far too many truly stupid people who don’t have a damn clue about this countries history. You need to go back to 9t grade and pay attention in your US History class.

  • ClawhammerJake

    In summer the Nevada desert is one of the hottest places on Earth. My guess is the “militia” will find somewhere else to be.

  • dcl3500

    Uneducated? Guess again.

  • DesertRover

    I’ll take the Superior Court judge’s interpretation over your uneducated one.

  • dcl3500

    Nice to know he believes in it, now to get him to actually read and understand it.

    Try to understand the sections you are copy and pasting, that will help a lot.

  • DesertRover

    Pretty obvious you don’t your a$$ from your elbow.

  • dcl3500

    Pretty obvious you aren’t a constitutional scholar now isn’t it.

  • Hockenberry

    You need to get back on your meds, STAT!!!

  • Jefry Tober

    You can’t understand Bundy and his “ancestral” claims without understanding Deseret. You can’t understand Bundy’s willingness to face off to the feds without understanding our government quelling Deseret.

    “After the establishment of the Utah Territory, the Latter-day Saints did not relinquish the idea of a “State of Deseret”. From 1862 to 1870, a group of Mormon elders under Young’s leadership met as a shadow government after each session of the territorial legislature to ratify the new laws under the name of the “state of Deseret.” Attempts were made in 1856, 1862, and 1872 to write a new state constitution under that name based on the new boundaries of the Utah Territory.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Deseret

    “Bunker, on his own initiative but with permission from Brigham Young, moved his large polygamous family 25 miles (40 km) southwest to Bunkerville after the settlers in Santa Clara had failed to live the communitarian United Order. The residents of Bunkerville, so named by Brigham Young, established a new communal effort,”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunkerville,_Nevada

    Cliven Bundy is great great grandson of murdering white settlers at the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_Leavitt

  • ramon roman

    As to the ownership of lands, or properties by the USA, then go the opinion of DISENT AGAIN and read the Article IV, SECTION 3, CLAUSE 2, that he copied.

  • ramon roman

    (continuation) . Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenal and any other needful buildings. That is all, Desert rover.

  • ramon roman

    DesertRove: Please if you don’t understand, don’t make general this misunderstanding. I am not trained in law, but this Article doesn’t refer to the ownership of individual States by the Federal Government. It refers, only, in my understanding, that the federal government can make exclusive laws over lands ceded by each State, not bigger than 10 square miles and with the approval of Congress and the legislature of the States involved, to be served as the seat of the Government of the USA, or to be used as Dock yards,

  • ramon roman

    (Continuation) …let’s see what the constitution says about treaties done by the USA: ” ARTICLE VI, CLAUSE 2; ‘ 2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; AND ALL TREATIES MADE, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, SHALL BE THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding”‘. Therefore, even when a foreign treaty is made under the jurisdiction of the USA, must be pursued and fulfiled. Or do you think that the laws that the USA government recognizes and fulfills internally, are totally different from the International laws that the USA government recognizes and incurres when making a foreign treaty?

  • ramon roman

    First mr pundit head: Name one instance, except for the native people, where the government stole and steals the land of American Citizens. Cliven Bundy’s land? This gentleman is stealing the right of the citizens of the USA to collect money for the grazing of his cattle in the land that belongs to all the people of the USA, INCLUDING YOU.
    How the law works, mr pundit head? The law, in all fields of the USA, must be enforced, or is just a blotting in the constitution?
    Second, mr pundit, you wrote that one of the many violations of the constitution, according to you, is honoring a FOREIGN TREATY, well, mr pundit head, let

  • ramon roman

    SORRY,STEPHEN, MY MISTAKE, IT SHOULD READ: ” IRAQ, NOT PAKISTAN”.

  • ramon roman

    sorry, 2shades, my mistake, it should have read : ” ARTICLE IV, SECTION 3, CLAUSE 2”.

  • ramon roman

    Angela, Angela, Angela, as all the people that have never read the constitution, spout their ignorance and they are sure, they swear they are sure, as you think you are, that the constitution is all about the founding Fathers, then Angela, only because I feel obliged by your ignorance that I paste the introduction of the Constitution for you and the rest that cannot read : ” We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”, CAN YOU READ, ANGELA?

  • Angela

    “WE the People” DID NOT MEAN YOU, and all the people…it meant THEM, CONGRESS, the very definition of Confederacy is UNLAWFUL, they are and have been Senate since ancient Rome a band of criminals enslaving us through their Talmudic bull “legalese” Babyl-on (to babble on)! STOP being patriotic to IT

  • Angela

    Sorry, but patri means father and a “patriot” is one who calls government (state/the lord god) father, Jesus said to come out of that – as soon as people start undertsanding this we will eliminate satan (attorneys) and their bull Talmudic laws that pit us against each other and human traffick us via our birth certificate bonds on the stock market (look it up) – The Dec. of Indepence merely put you into a “pending” state and Constituitions were written by Mason Luciferians who “We the People” meant THEM, please learn your history and research these things and stop spreading disinfo – chooseyourside.org to learn all about how Mason Luciferian attorneys (satan) have enslaved you

  • Angela

    This article is A LYING LOAD OF CRAP! we are FREE under God and satan’s acts and statues have been a bane on humanity for over a thousand years

  • ramon roman

    Another nick picker! What is a patriot, mr Stephen? Those 5000 young men who were killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan are not patriots, mr Stephen? Were they supporting their countrymen, or were they supporting the will of the Government of the USA, that represents the will of the majority that elected that government? Have you read the Constitution in its totality, mr Stephen? How it starts? Did you forget? It starts with, ” WE THE PEOPLE…” . AND HAVE YOU READ ARTICLE I , mr Stephen? It starts like this,” All the powers herein granted shall be vested in the Congress of the United States…”. What this means,mr Stephen?That the Federal Government has no power over the jurisdiction of the Republic?
    The Bush government and all the other governments before his, were all elected in a democratic and free elections. Now, mr Stephen, is the Obama administration a different kind of elected government? Why is he a tyrant that should be brought down with the blood of Americans? You see, mr Stephen, I think you are a racist that cannot come to grips with the reality that a Black president is ruling your Republic.

  • ramon roman

    2SHADES, don’t try to be a smart ass, nickpicking what is pleasurable to you in the constitution.
    Now, go to the constitution, ARTICLE III, SECTION 3, CLAUSE 2 and read it, smart ass!

  • Marg

    She is a Neo-Progressive! Almost the same as a Communist!

  • DisentAgain

    No. Not “rule over us”. We elect fellow citizens *to represent us* – over whom we can petition for redress, protest, and vote in others. That’s self-government. They do *nothing* we do not give them power to do. They are a citizen extension of the people. Not rulers.

  • Discipleof Jesus

    you folks that think yourselves as God will never get it , you think you have electionswhich actually count your votes what fools , you think you have liberty , you fools You pay real estate taxes right ? well that is your rent at the barrel of a gun . Which monies ay for the forced re-education of children . Which as our Creator states it is better to put a millstone around your neck than to put a stumbling block before one of these little one. you think its about left/right you fools . you have no liberty left in this physical world . Where the Spirit of the Creator is there is liberty ? So let me ask you do you have liberty except in your hearts ? To all so called patriots out there , unless yall start making Jesus Christ your first priority nothing good can happen . Unless true libertarians find faith yall are lost

  • Mike

    Technically, we elect people to rule over us. This is a Republic after all.

  • http://www.folkthewar.blogspot.com/ Sue Jeffers

    sounds like someone flunked out of college & is still bitter

  • Michael Stephen

    This is your quote. “said he doesn’t believe in the legitimacy of the United States government. Not just since a black man became President, but EVER.
    Pretty much the opposite of ‘patriot’ in every respect.” I am not sure what YOUR definition is of PATRIOT, but you may want to read the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Constitution, and maybe some of the works of Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc. A PATRIOT is someone who fights for his COUNTRY and COUNTRYMEN. NOT Government. Fighting an oppressive Government for the freedom and liberty of the COUNTRY is what the revolution war was ABOUT. Ben Franklin said he believed that in order to keep this country pure, there would have to be another revolution every 20 or so odd years. Thomas Jefferson said “The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.” A PATRIOT IS SOMEONE WHO SUPPORTS HIS COUNTRYMEN. NOT THE GOVERNMENT. GET IT STRAIGHT.

  • DesertRover

    And the federal gov’t doesn’t follow the constitution, including they have no right to own 81% of Nevada, and large amounts of other western states. Article 1,Section 8, #17.
    Also, I don’t hear the left complain when Barry rewrites the ACA law 38 times, bypassing congress. And not enforcing immigration law, etc etc.

  • boy-howdy

    “so did the original tea party and all those rogue colonists, those who harbored runaway slaves, and that Rosa Parks gal”

    The difference is that they were standing up to some actual injustice. Bundy is just refusing to pay the pittance the government is charging to (kind-of, almost-sort-of, maybe-come-close-to-touching) cover the cost of managing that land. If the land were held/maintained by a private owner, he’d be paying 10+ times what he refuses to pay to the public ownership.

    In other words, he’s the real welfare queen, not the people he (wrongly) claims were better off as slaves.

  • dcl3500

    Nah, his biggest problem was he didn’t follow the law. Get it right.

  • someguy

    well said

  • someguy

    John Roberts is that you? Or is it just some silly prat that thinks he knows more about what is Constitutional or Unconstitutional than the SCOTUS?

    The constitution was written in 1787. The Property Clause was an attempt to Constitutionalize provisions of the Northwest Ordinance. The OP doesn’t think the FEDERAL government has the right to own land, he thinks the STATE government has that right. If the feds don’t have the right to own land because of some imaginary unconstitutionality, then the states equally do not have that right. Regardless of legislation passed in the 1800s. the Constitution says the federal government has the right to control property in the states. SCOTUS has upheld this over and over.

    And yes, Native Americans got screwed.

  • Michael S

    Try that was ILLEGALLY passed and upheld via the SCOTUS.

    It was passed under the Doctrine of Discovery, in which white, religious settlers, via the CHURCH wanted to STEAL native Americans land. It deemed that when Christians come across ANY land of non-Christians (heathens) their land, regardless of how long they had been there, became the white Christians land and the indians only had a permit to use the land.

    It violates the Constitution on TWO fronts… honoring a FOREIGN TREATY and the RELIGIOUS violation.

    THAT VERY VIOLATION is why the government thinks they can steal your land with other weak excuses, today. So in essence, you support government tyranny.

    Oh, it sucks for you when you spend a night researching this, but don’t understand how the law actually works, and you make yourself look like a complete jack-ass!

    HAHAHAA!

  • Michael S

    Awww, you poor, whiny, wussy, baby. Look at you, I just CRUSHED YOU with the TRUTH, The Constitution itself, which was written by PATRIOTS, much more vehement Patriots than history has ever seen, who died by the millions to secure freedom from tyranny…

    and all you could respond with was an idiotic comment about language?

    YOU PROVED MY POINT, APTLY.

    The sad part about a douche-bag like you is that you haven’t done one day of thinking in your life, you went to school and regurgitated the “left VS right” bile and vomit, then you swallowed it back down. You probably only graduated with a median GPA and THIS is your only outlet because nobody in real life cares to listen to your idiotic nonsense.

    You have NOT ONE iota of critical thinking skills, however you think that you do, and you come online like most other moronic armchair pundits and spout your ignorant venom.

    I PROVED you wrong, and your only response was that my language is repugnant.

    Well FUCK YOU with a Louisville Slugger, you weakling, the truth is not your friend, it, oftentimes, s your enemy, especially when you’re IGNORANT, as you clearly are.

    I PROVED YOU WRONG, and your little douche-bag followers can like your idiotic comments all they like, they’re more ignorant than you, they aren’t even capable of creating their own idiocy, rather they have to follow a moron like you.

    Just walk off the cliff and bring your idiot minions with you, fucking lemmings and their clown king.

    RUN AWAY FAT GIRL! It’s all you’re capable of.

    And how do I expect someone named Becca to get hit in the dick? THINK ABOUT IT, YOU BRAINLESS CRETIN!

  • DisentAgain

    Ah yes. Another one who thinks the US government is not ours, but some separate entity. It’s our government – we make it, we empower it. Read that document again – we rule ourselves here. The US is a self-governed nation. There is no separation of government and citizenry here. We all share the same rights. We make our own rules.

    Cliven had all rights of petition, citizenship, and protest available to him – just like the rest of us. No avenue was denied. He has the vote. He has full representation. He had *years* for seeking recourse. Instead, he chose to spout propaganda, freak out, and pretend to be a patriot to defend stealing from his fellow citizens.

    If he had a just case, I would stand with him for justice – he doesn’t have a case. Supporting him is juvenile gullibility, and a disrespect for the constitution – not patriotism.

  • DisentAgain

    So your support for Bundy would have been the same if he were a black or brown man? Or would he just have been on of the multitudes “mooching off the US taxpayer” to you then?

    You played the race card the minute you supported entitlements for rich white guys and assumed all people of color are lazy thieves and “criminal aliens”. Folks like you invented the race card.

  • someguy

    Try Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 dickhead.

  • Rayaminute

    Seriously? Ironically you talk about religious idiots, and berated Mormons, Muslims, and Jews. I guess what you are saying is the only people that deserve respect are those that are exactly like you.
    This rancher may have said something very offensive, and you just joined him.

  • J Lew

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Article of Faith 12: “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates; in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law.”
    Thank you for a gross misrepresentation of the church’s beliefs. This Bundy guy has issues, but to paint whole groups with one brush based on the actions of one person (or even a few people) is ignorant.

  • anoynamouse

    Tolerant people (liberals to you) often don’t want to hear the ranting of a madmen and their ilk.

    We don’t mind hear well respected conservative solars and representatives of a civilized movement…but you are correct we don’t want to hear from far right whack jobs. We learn from history and when you give Ken Ham or the EDL a voice, you give them credibility.

    You obviously know very few liberals or progressives and are just speaking from your own bigotry. Just your use of the world Libtard shows you intolerance, understanding inability to convey a message based on merits.

    Lastly, you have posted here again and again.Nobody is blocking you. This tends to be the cry of the paranoid who thinks websites have time to monitor a million and one posts or care what you or I say.

  • anoynamouse

    His comment was a joke based on irony, it’s a fancy word smart people use.

    It’s not so much that I’m against conservative policy…it’s just that I cannot support policy and people who have no understanding of facts and logic.

    Think and vote independent!

  • anoynamouse

    They want a reason to play with their guns, plain in simple.

  • anoynamouse

    Ah yes…a website filled out by humans….it must be correct! I just filled out mine, it says I was born on the moon!

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history

    Maybe you want to read this info http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history

    If you note they are saying about the same thing with the family “in the area” but records show that his family didn’t have a claim to the land until more recently, it doesn’t matter who group in what area. My mom was born in Ohio, doesn’t mean she owns Cleveland.

  • anoynamouse

    But he doesn’t run around with a an American flag on while on the back of his horse…go figure that one out!

  • Thom Allen

    And cApiTaLizE corrEcTLy.

  • Moderator3

    Oh, one more thing. Bye.

  • Moderator3

    Your language is unnecessary and repugnant. What I really don’t understand is how you expect freedom to hit someone named Becca in the dick. I guess the education system really failed you.

  • FOX_hunter

    I find it interesting how people who refuse to recognize the government of their nation love to grandstand beneath the flag of that nation—and thus the flag of that government! Hypocrites, the lot of ‘em. False patriots… anything BUT “heroes”.

  • 2SHADES

    Author, you’re a fucking boot-licker. You are nothing of a patriot, you wouldn’t know a fucking Patriot of one smacked you in the dick with Freedom.

    US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8:

    “To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;”

    THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO OWN LAND, PER THE US CONSTITUTION.

    You, dip-shit, are NOT a Patriot, and you most certainly can’t fucking read! You’re a god damned neo-con, piece of shit!

  • Jim Trebowski

    Not only are you completely unaware of the fact that owning people as property is against the values of those of us that actually believe in liberty and freedom, you are woefully ignorant in how our founding fathers dealt with mooching thugs like the Bundy Bunch. Why don’t you look up George Washington’s “whiskey rebellion” actions, an d then come back to the class, ok, con? Dummy.

  • Dr. W

    Ha ha ha! Hannity now says this: “His comments are beyond repugnant. They are beyond despicable to me. They’re beyond ignorant to me, and my level of anger is about go back and listen to Democrats.

  • DesertRover

    Cliven Bundy broke the (federal) law. Of course, so did the original tea party and all those rogue colonists, those who harbored runaway slaves, and that Rosa Parks gal. We must crush these people with the full weight of gov’t power.

    Bundy’s biggest sin was not contributing to Harry Reid’s slush fund, I mean campaign fund.

  • BillFromDover

    he doesn’t believe in the legitimacy of the United States government

    Then I’m sure he pays no income tax to them cuz they don’t exist… right?

  • pappyvet

    We didn’t play the race card. Bundy did.

  • Razoumikhin

    His seditious political beliefs come directly from his seditious religion – end of story.

    Mormon Oath of Vengeance Against USA and Joseph Smith’s Apocalyptic White Horse Prophecy for War with Russia

    http://tarpley.net/2012/11/03/worse-than-bush-romneys-baggage-includes-mormon-oath-of-vengeance-against-usa-and-joseph-smiths-apocalyptic-white-horse-prophecy-for-war-with-russia/

    http://progressivepress.com/book-listing/weird-romney-mormon-takeover

  • lucent159

    Lol…

  • lless

    This is all idiotically irrelevant. Even under the old Homestead Act the acquisition of this property devolved from a grant from the FEDERAL government limited in scope to the 160 acres forming the ranch proper. He has lost every court case he filed for that reason. He paid the grazing fees for decades and then quit when he didn’t like the Endangered Species rulings. This is a felony scale mooch on all of us.

  • lucent159

    Ok, let’s believe your “truth”: The Bundy’s stole the land from the Paiute Indians and forced them to live on reservations. Want to be a true patriot?? Return to the land through genealogy tracing you seem to be do adept at who legitimately owned this land before it was stolen. Oh, wait, return land STOLEN by white people to brown people? That story and “truth” doesn’t fit your dumb narrative.

  • Jim Olson

    Bingo. Governmental legitimacy, rule of law, and common decency only extend as far as it benefits them. Once those things begin to benefit someone else whose ideology, politics, gender, sexuality or race they view as inferior, they cry foul.

  • Johnnymoreno

    Thank you for the info.

  • Cody Whitney

    The so-called investigative reporter who wrote this article didn’t do a very thorough job of tracking the Bundy family history. They ARE descended from the Levitts. Cliven Bundy is a direct decedent of Dudley Leavitt who would be Cliven’s great great grandfather. It appears Dudley was the direct ancestor on Cliven’s mother’ side that first came to settle in Bunkerville, NV.

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny

    There is inaccurate information in this article.

    “Early census records show Cliven’s maternal grandmother, Christena Jensen, was born in Nevada in 1901. One genealogical researcher says records indicate Jensen helped settle Bunkerville some years later.”

    This is INACCURATE: (they even spelled her name wrong): Clive’s maternal grandmother’s name is Abigail Christina ABBOTT Jensen born 22 JAN 1891 Bunkerville, Clark Co., NV

    “Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy’s parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.”

    Raoul Leavitt was a decedent of Dudley Leavitt, Clive’s great great grandfather. Clive’s great grandmother Mary Jane Leavitt’s father was Dudley Leavitt who is Cliven Bundy’s great great grandfather, he married a woman from Utah, Mary Huntsman in 1853, and eventually (probably 1877 as Clive has been saying) they settled in Bunkerville NV until Dudley died there in 1908.

    Cliven Bundy inherited his ancestral rights that has been handed down through five generations in a direct line with the first generation being his great great grandfather Dudley Leavitt on his mothers side, who came from Salt Lake City Utah to settle in Bunkerville, NV sometime between 1853 when he married his wife Mary Huntsman to when he died in 1908 in Bunkerville (Cliven Bundy has claimed it was in 1877).

    Cliven inherited his ancestral land rights from these ancestors in this order: Cliven’s mother Margaret Bodel JENSEN-Bundy – Cliven’s grandmother, Margaret’s mother, Abigail Christina ABBOTT-Jensen – Cliven’s great grandmother, Mary Jane LEAVITT-Abbott. Abigail “Christina” Abbot-Jensen’s mother, Cliven’s great great grandfather Dudley Leavitt, Mary Jane Leavitt-Abbott’s father.

    This research was conducted here at the Rootsweb Ancestry website here:

    http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=dowfam3&id=I549063

    You can feel free to copy and paste this information to anyone who still tries to claim Cliven is lying about his ancestral rights.

  • KingCranky

    Your reply lost all “credibility” when you misspelled it as “credilbility”.

  • KingCranky

    Says the person who misspelled “credibility” as “credilbility” in an earlier reply.

    Perhaps best not to insult the intelligence of others when so lacking the ability to spell correctly.

  • KingCranky

    “Logical consistency” isn’t #1 on the far-right Hit Parade.

  • KingCranky

    The “Oath Keeper” idiots sure didn’t have problems backing Bush for the very same Presidential actions they’re bashing Obama for.

    Oath Keepers are such odious, easily-debunked hypocrites.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Apparently we can add “unreconstructed racist” the list.

    “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

    “And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=1

  • pappyvet

    Public lands in the United States are held in trust for the American people. The people this flim flam artist is ripping off is us. The people coming from as far away as Montana who strut around talking about American freedom are threatening to shoot the wrong people. If this is free and open land unregulated and an available resource , lets go hold a Juneteenth party where his herd is.

  • Karma_HitMan

    I would like to give you the gift of ROPE, so you may tie it around your neck in order to pull your head, from your BUTT cause you be speaking in crap.

  • laten

    There is a religious connection, his family can be traced back to the meadow mountain massacre. The was a strong militia presence and lawlessness when 120 pioneers were killed for no other reason than hate.

  • FLL

    I hear that line about liberals being eradicated from time to time. “We need a new Uncle Adolf, and then we could round up all those liberals and ship them off to camps… blah, blah, blah.” Zzzzzzz… snore. Who needs Sominex to fall asleep when we have you? By the way, you can remove the scare quotes from the word “president.” Even if your opponent wins the election, he’s still the president… unless you want to shop around for another country. Hey! Now there’s an idea for you.

  • Silver_Witch

    Thanks BeccaM, never thought about the BLM no being funded or staff to carry out their decisions, ruling. Since that is the way Republicans keep things from working by not funding the entity.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    And that’s ad hominem.

    Y’know, it’s funny — I can respect conservatives as having a different point of view than me without accusing them of being mentally ill. Then folks like yourself show up and say that those who don’t agree with you 100% are ‘disordered.’

    That’s just fucking sad, to be so close-minded.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcrEqIpi6sg Moderator4

    Then why are you still here, commenting?

  • samanna

    Not projecting anything. Liberalism is a metal disorder. Hopefully, someday it will be eradicated.
    “If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it. Period.”
    If you want to do an article about a seditious liar maybe you should do one on your “President.”
    The “man” lies each and every time he opens his mouth.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    There’s that projection…

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Dream on, bub.

  • Swami_Binkinanda

    I think there’s a Skousen link in their, as Glenn Beck also used Skousen’s weirdo mythologizing to push anti-government wackery.

  • Swami_Binkinanda

    Somebody’s wearing their sensitive spot on their sleeve today.

  • samanna

    Obviously a MSDNC viewer.

  • samanna

    You forgot to type “IMHO.”

  • FLL

    I couldn’t help but notice that the news anchor said “Jim Lordy came form Montana to join the protesters. He says he and other militia members are not afraid to shoot, if necessary.” That points like a compass to Flathead Valley, about an hour’s drive north of Missoula, in western Montana. The towns in Flathead Valley—Kalispell, Columbia Falls and Whitefish—are currently a magnet white nationalist and militia movement groups. There is only partial overlap between the two groups. The white nationalist groups are only interested in moving to the region so that they can establish a visible presence in Flathead County and eventually exert influence in the county government. The more violent militia groups are more interested in instigating altercations with the federal government. My guess is that the people in the militia groups are the ones who are more likely to wind up in prison, which may be for the best.

  • FLL

    First, Bundy’s illegal activities are being protected by heavily armed people from the militia movement. As you well know, the militia movement is, to a large extent, composed of groups with white supremacist ideology, so please don’t feign innocence. Second, I believe you’re talking about one single reference in Becca’s post to the first black president. If that’s all it takes to get you to stop reading, you’re obviously disinterested in reading anything critical of Bundy. Third, even if Becca’s post was littered with racial material (which it’s not), the criticism of Bundy’s activities would be just as valid. Your suggestion that the main point of the post loses credibility is a logical fallacy.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Well, there are a number of issues going on here.

    One is that Bundy is a scofflaw. Most law-abiding citizens when ticketed or fined pay their fines and stop doing whatever it was that drew the fine in the first place. True, people have a right to take their case to court if they think they were wrongfully penalized, but again, once a judge has upheld it and any appeals (if pursued) are exhausted, law-abiding citizens will pay their fine and stop violating the law.

    Not so for Mr. Bundy. Despite losing in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and being under direct orders to pay his fines and stop grazing his cattle on land that doesn’t belong to him, he’s refused to obey either order.

    The other issue is the BLM. They’re underfunded, understaffed, and not really set up for law enforcement. I don’t know for sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the BLM lacks the statutory authority to, for example, put a lien on Bundy’s property or bank accounts. I do know, from experience out in the Black Rock Desert (Burning Man) that the BLM does have the authority to remove things that are trespassing on BLM-managed lands. To remove individuals though, they usually call local law enforcement officers. The decision to seize the cattle and sell them off was probably decided upon as a last resort.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I don’t know. Either because I said that Bundy’s disdain for America predates the current president, or because I happened to note those same ancestors Bundy claims owned his land were the ones who stole it from the Paiute.

    I suspect it’s the former, because racists are a touchy bunch and are prone to see accusations of racism and ‘playing the race card’ (a favorite jingoistic phrase on Faux News) where none exist nor were intended.

  • Silver_Witch

    Much of the problem with this whole mess is that the BLM did not step in right away can seize his cattle when you he used the land with more cattle then allowed. Sadly, when narcissistic people get there way over and over they only get more bold, more aggressive and more outrageous.
    If I jaywalk I get a ticket, a fine and treated rudely by the police for doing the same. If you feed your cattle on land which I not, and never has been yours, then you should at minimum get a ticket, pay a fine and if you keep repeating it you should have your cattle seized. Not 20 years later….
    Nutters all of them…they want a war so badly they are willing to watch their wives and children be gunned own – just so they can declare war on the Country they now don’t believe in.
    I am disgusted by all of them.

  • Silver_Witch

    And were I his wife and/or daughter, he would be not be living in my house five minutes after he said this.

  • Silver_Witch

    Race card, sorry – did I miss something in this article…damn now I have to go look for the cards.

  • lynchie

    You so cherish the rich screwing the middle class and poor and call him a communist. America is supposed to stand for all of us not just you 1% greedy bastards

  • benb

    I’d say the grazing fee is a tax deductible biz expense so the $3,348 actually even smaller.

    Seems to me that Bundy got pissed off when the BLM limited the number of cattle that could graze on that land and that felt like Big Government Control (yeah, well that’s why it’s called the Bureau of Land Management). I think Bundy’s problem is that he assumed he could pay the fee and do what he always did with his herd and, for the first 20 years, the BLM had no issue with letting him.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I very nearly included that bit in my post, but it was getting too long already. ;-)

    But yeah, Bundy says he follows and obeys Nevada law — and the Nevada state government has already said, many times, their laws include obeying federal laws.

  • http://www.americablog.com/ Naja pallida

    In other words, you completely and utterly missed the point, and prefer it that way.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Thanks, Fixer.

    At this point, I also think Bundy has become a figurehead for wingnut interests, including Faux News and the radical militia types — each of whom has slightly different and not totally compatible agendas. Until they showed up, Bundy would’ve been just another wackadoo whose assets were seized (finally) to pay off decades of accumulating fines and penalties.

  • http://www.americablog.com/ Naja pallida

    Nevada State Constitution, second section:

    Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States. All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

    He doesn’t abide by Nevada law, he abides by the voices in his head.

  • Bill_Perdue

    I’ve proudly pointed out that I’m a revolutionary socialist dozens of times. Do try to keep up.

    Would anyone but a loyal follower of Joe McCarthy and Roy Kohn would worry about it?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGGjGSdqf8&noredirect=1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJHsur3HqcI&noredirect=1

  • A_nonymoose

    One of the multitude of TV screens in the restaurant I was in last night had Fox News on; they were interviewing a “militia member”, like he had something legitimate to say — lots of serious faces. Made me sick.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Yeah…but in some parts of the country out this way, Mormons are as common as Baptists are in others. I decided not to focus on that part because so far, Bundy’s personal religious beliefs didn’t seem to be directly related to his seditious political beliefs.

  • samanna

    Why didn’t you just say: “I’m a Communist.” It would have saved a lot of keyboarding.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Well, let’s not forget: He said he’ll let his wife and daughter die first. His convictions consist of making sure others die for his beliefs before he’ll die himself.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    You’re cute. Did you cut-and-paste that all by yourself, or did you have help?

  • samanna

    Author- This story lost all, or any credilbility it may have had, just as soon as you played the race card. I stopped reading…

  • 2karmanot

    Well done. I couldn’t agree more. As for the militias: “I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.” Be my guest!

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Part of the wingnut mythos of late is the belief that, in the event of orders from D.C. to put down a rebellion such as they’re trying to spark, the U.S. military will switch sides and support the rebels.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I could’ve written an entire piece on Mack and his ‘Oath Keepers’ organization. It comes as no surprise they showed up, with guns, to defy the U.S. government and threaten its employees.

    As I suggested, I think Bundy is just a lying moocher who has some peculiar notions as to how our government actually works and the extent of its authority. These other yahoos who showed up actually WANT violence to break out, because they think it’ll spark a revolution.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Yes, it’s for real. If you don’t want to subject yourself to the actual broadcast, just watch Jon Stewart’s segment. At around the 90% mark in time, he has the footage from Kelly’s show.

    My guess is it’s probably something a local Fox News producer wanted, so help them try to portray Bundy as an American patriot. Let’s not forget their primary goal: Far right conservative propaganda.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    He’d recognize the gov’t if the court decisions went his way.

    But what can we expect from a man who rides around waving the flag of a country he says doesn’t exist?

  • SL Abrin

    He’s a Mormon? Well, say no more. Religious idiots only respect ‘God’s Kingdom’, a little place located at the intersection of Vivid Imaginations and Subconscious Desire. No government is higher than the ‘lord’. That goes for Muslims and Jews as well.

  • The_Fixer

    Nice overview of the situation, Becca.

    As I say below, this guy appears to have some serious mental health issues that preclude the usage of his brain for reasoning. The same with his right-wing militia guys.

  • The_Fixer

    Yeah, I wonder if Bundy is having mental health issues of some sort that have affected his ability to reason. Maybe the paranoia finally got to him?

    It’s clear that a lot of his camo-wearing defenders have some serious problems (using women as shields and being proud of it). But I wonder just what kind of “reasoning” makes him ride around on a horse with an American flag while openly denying the legitimacy of the government it represents. That is just plain cukoo.

    Time for him to contact a responsible health care provider (not one of those quacks who recommend colloidal silver for whatever ails you).

  • HolyMoly

    Taking his claims before a federal court/federal judge seems to me to be recognition of the existence and authority of the federal government. Not that it should surprise me that people of his ilk fail to see their own contradictions.

  • Bill_Perdue

    He’s a tax cheat.

    Like all rich people he he wants to avoid taxes and make working people pay his share. He’s no different than the Koch brothers or the Walton litter. Limit the annual income of the rich to $250,000.00 per year from all sources and confiscate the rest of their income and their other assets – mansions, private parks and estates, megamobiles, jets and yachts.

    Socialists and the left will tax the rich until they’re no longer rich and use the money to end unemployment by investing in a multitrillion dollar Manhattan style project to to green industry, agriculture, the infrastructure and constitutionally guarantee good wages, working conditions, socialized medicine, good housing, nutrition and education all the way for working people.

  • tadzio148 .

    Just another “taker,” mired in dependency and looking for a free handout from the federal government…

  • PeteWa

    great background, Becca

  • eggroll_jr

    First, really great job in summarizing a 20-year history of unbridled resource theft. Bundy really is engaged in divergent behavior as BLM can be a valuable ally with ranchers. One aspect that is under-discussed still are the reactionary splinter groups within the Mormon Church. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/28/1151495/-How-Mormon-Leaders-Built-the-John-Birch-Society
    Bundy often repeats Richard Mack talking points. The concepts they put out there are so foreign and twisted that you probably have to be inside the group to understand them. In previous decades, the Mormons pushed for elected office but kept their beliefs under wraps. Mitt was really the first to put mainstream Mormonism out there. Now we’re seeing some of the odder forms of this homegrown belief system. Very cultish, extremely well armed and driven by some real bad ideas.

  • AnthonyLook

    You go Becca, excellent work.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    Thanks for the detail. It answers my main question…what kind of lawyer would argue this nonsense in court. Answer: none. He defended himself and doesn’t seem to know the law or understand the constitution. Just crazy conspiracy stuff he gets from somewhere (local groups, the internet, etc.).

    It reminds me of a series of letters (fewer than a half dozen over a couple of months) I opened when I was working for a CEO. They all came accompanied by a printed paper claiming that it was not legal to borrow “credit” only money. Since the practices of credit card companies have all been subject to litigation many times, the legality of owing interest in a revolving balance is well-established. After a few of these I forwarded them to the head of the legal department. She sent them back with a brief note: Forward these to Collections. People get these crazy ideas from conspiracy theorist nuts who base their ideas on reading things out of context and without understanding of the case law and supporting documents. We have a lot of these people. “You can’t tell me what to do” seems to be encoded deep into American DNA. In some ways it’s a blessing. We often figure out a way to do something that everyone else says is impossible. At the same time it often means being in denial of reality (like global warming) that leads to disasters (see: Hurricane Katrina) which are inevitable but inexplicably not anticipated (or at least for which no serious planning has been made).

  • oikos

    time to put those FEMA ‘reeducation’ camps to work. :)

  • oikos

    “I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing.”
    Nevada, by virtue of its existence, is part of the US. It would not exist as an entity in its present form without the United States and neither would the majority of the (federally funded) infrastructure that Nevada has and bundy uses. All of these teabilly POS are dumber than a box of hammers.

  • VegasDave58

    Bundy and his militia allies are not patriots, they are domestic terrorists. Denying the existence of the federal government while wrapping yourself in the flag? What a bunch of fuckwads.

    For Bundy to proclaim he believes in the existence of local government flies in the face of Clark County having bought up all the grazing rights it controlled and retiring them. Bundy claims he tried to pay his grazing fees to Clark County which refused to accept it. (Note: Clark County grazing fees were 10 times the BLM fees Bundy is down on.)

  • therling

    I have to wonder if Bundy is declaring the income from the sale of cattle that he has grazing on federal lands on his income tax forms.

  • Badgerite

    And this is what these types of people really want high powered weaponry for. Not self defense. But to be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want and the rest of the country and courts and laws and things like that be damned. It really is the ‘old west’ mentality and the old west was quite lawless. What I don’t understand is why the government has not put a lien on his bank account by now. What is up with that?

  • Island In The Sky

    I’m all for it.

  • Elijah Shalis

    Why hasn’t the government seized all their money from their bank accounts? That is easy to do and nonviolent. That would leave them in quite a pickle.

  • Island In The Sky

    I think those gun freaks and their “militias”, willing to kill federal employees (and women and children), should be made to shit their pants at the sight of these machines.

  • Elijah Shalis

    I noticed the irony that Bundy used the Federal Court system yet he claims the Federal Government isn’t legitimate. The Feds should have tear gassed them all and then gone in with zip tie handcuffs and loaded them all on prison buses.

  • Elijah Shalis

    All that is needed is tear gas lol no need to kill them and give them what they want

  • Island In The Sky

    Send some M1A2 Abrams tanks Bundy’s way. Some Apache helicopters too to let that traitor know that PAYMENT IS OVERDUE!

  • Monophylos Fortikos

    Have you got that right. The more I think about that remark of Mack’s the more flabbergasted I feel. The idea of sacrificing his loved ones was really the first thing to pop out of his mouth? “I’m so courageous I’d send my own wife and kids out to get shot! What’s that? Uh, yeah…sure, I’d go next of course…yeah.”

  • Yalma Cuder-Zicci

    Is that Fox News “Kelly Report” image is for real? Wow, presenting a story fairly and balancedly again, I see. Shouldn’t he be holding a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag instead of the flag of the government he hates? And, also… that poor horse.

  • SkippyFlipjack

    The sight of those morons wandering around strapped with all sorts of arms is disturbing. Drop a bomb on the whole lot of them.

  • SkippyFlipjack

    I think we’re all kind of duplicitous in that way — everybody has cheered at some point at the breaking or ignoring of a law they find unfair at its core. (Weed, for example, remains illegal at the federal level.) It’s just that in this case Bundy’s principled stand is based on pure selfishness and greed, something that seems to often be the case with the conservative stand on laws they don’t like.

  • TheOriginalLiz

    Jon Stewart did just that Monday night – outed the flaming hypocrisy of the right wingers.

  • Thom Allen

    “I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die,” he said. “I would’ve gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”

    Most rational adults would do everything possible to protect their spouses and children. It makes me wonder just what kind of psychopathology we’re dealing with here. Definitely antisocial (sociopathic), some narcissism, a little paranoia and some just plain crazy.

    And, just I’ll bet he “would have gone next.” While he was watching the women and children being shot, he’d have had second thoughts and taken off as fast as he could. He’s very brave as long as others are at risk, like most Republicons, but when he’s in danger? Not so much. As my grandmother would have said, “He’s really brave, with his mouth.”

  • Thom Allen

    Amazing that Mormon right-wingers, like Bundy, are so duplicitous. They have no problem upholding the laws that they support (e.g. forbidding same sex-marriage or gay adoptions.) They’ll preach that to everyone and even donate to suppress that cause. Yet, when there’s a law in place that they don’t like (anti-discrimination, laws forbidding polygamy), they have no problem with breaking them. All the while proclaimimg how pious and patriotic they are.

    Great post, Becca! Thanks.

  • Indigo

    Please do, there’s room for commentary since the insurgent right-wingers are armed but the Occupy Wall Street movement was not. In fact, it was the constabulary that was armed, just like the seditious right-wingers . . . oh, right!

  • Indigo

    Ah . . . the Range Wars. They’re not over. But then neither is the Whiskey Rebellion and for that matter, the Revolutionary War which, these days, seems to be convoluted into a Oligarchical Restoration by the Supreme Court. The bottom line is transparent, the Libertarian mentality is pervasive in our social structure and very little is being done to counteract it. Call it a mental health problem, if you like, but regardless of what it’s called, the 13th amendment can be repealed. The surprise is that that notion hasn’t made it into the courts yet. Property rights, you know . . .

  • bkmn

    How many of those who claim the US Government doesn’t exist are very supportive of US military forces (other than the National Guard, in this case)?

  • lynchie

    The Occupy movement challenged the 1%, Bundy keeps attention away from the 1%.

  • lilyannerose

    A “Burning Man” organizer is planning a “Bundyfest” immediately following the “Burning Man” festival directly across from Bundy’s home. If this goes forward I don’t think there will be any restraint on behalf of any authorities who may want to shut the event down!

  • caphillprof

    Compare and contrast the treatment of the occupy movement on Wall Street with that of armed seditious right-wingers in the west

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