Thousands of right-wingers march in Paris, yelling “Jews, get out of France!”

For the first time since the Nazi occupation of Paris, thousands of Frenchmen marched through the streets of the capital screaming “Jews, get out of France!”

“Juden raus!” – “Jews get out!” (in German) – was a popular Nazi cry, and also a children’s board game in Germany during the 1930s in which “players take turns rolling the dice and moving their ‘Jews’ across the map toward ‘collection points’ outside the city walls for deportation to Mandate Palestine. Written on the game board, it says ‘If you manage to see off 6 Jews, you’ve won a clear victory!'”

The protest, opposing the politically-left government of French President François Hollande, was called “TheDay of Anger,” and was organized by a nebulous coalition of French conservatives and the country’s gay-hating religious right, among others.

french-neo-nazi-anti-semite2

The videos (one is posted below) are rather shocking, showing thousands of Frenchmen yelling “Jews, France is not yours,” while marching through Paris giving Nazi salutes.

"Jew, get the f*** out, France isn't yours."

“Jew, get the f*** out, France isn’t yours.” – French anti-government protests, January 2014.

The protests shouldn’t surprise anyone who’s been following the developments in France the past few years.  America’s religious right has had a heavy hand in helping France’s nascent religious right organize alongside the lead conservative party, the UMP (France’s Republican party, for lack of a better comparison), against the country’s recent legalization of same-sex marriage.

french-anti-semitism-2

“Jew, get out of France” – French anti-government protests, January 2014.

French conservatives, following the example of American Republicans, are trying to use gay marriage, and gay rights generally, as part of a larger wedge to divide Frenchmen and win future elections on the backs of the country’s gay and lesbian community.

But of course, as we’ve learned far too often, once you start fanning the flames of intolerance, it’s awfully hard to control the animus you’ve created.  The religious right anti-gay protests have increasingly taken on a decidedly neo-Nazi bent, which – quelle surprise – has now turned into open anti-Semitism.

Anti-gay demonstrators in Paris give the fascist salute while confronting police during an anti-gay-marriage protest.

Anti-gay demonstrators in Paris give the fascist salute while confronting police during an anti-gay-marriage protest in 2013.

Last week’s openly-antisemitic protest was followed day’s later by another protest, yesterday, organized specifically by France’s religious right and the UMP to yet again bash gays.  Previous UMP/religious right protests resulted in the “family values” protesters rioting against peaceful police officers who, as video proves, were doing absolutely nothing to provoke the protesters.

Just as in Russia, the more violent elements of society in France have responded to the offically-sanctioned anti-gay hate by acting out violently in the form of hate crimes.

Parisian Wilfred de Bruijn, who was brutally attacked by anti-gay thugs in Paris in 2013, blames France’s family-values movement for motivating his attackers.

Parisian Wilfred de Bruijn, who was brutally attacked by anti-gay thugs in Paris in 2013, blames France’s family-values movement for motivating his attackers.

Perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised that there’s violence, after the Catholic church in France seemed to express empathy for those who feel the need to turn to violence, at the same time that France’s “family values” leader threatened that the French president “wants blood,” “and he’s gonna get it.”

Look,I love France. I studied and worked there. And I try to go back as often as I can.  But the country is descending into a cesspool of  intolerance.  And that intolerance is being fed by one of the largest political parties, the conservative UMP, and the country’s growing religious right (which is working in cahoots with America’s conservative “Christians”) and the Catholic church.  Sound familiar?

Someone has apparently told the French right that gay-bashing has been a rip-roaring success for America’s GOP, and thus they should emulate it. But the thing is, it hasn’t been a success at all.  Today’s Republican party sees the religious right as more of a nuisance (or worse, an albatross), holding Republicans back as the country as a whole moves forward on civil rights.  The GOP’s anti-gay, and more generally “intolerant” creed (against women, Latinos, blacks and immigrants), is costing Republicans dearly (and increasingly) at the ballot box.  Young people are fleeing the party, and that scares GOP leaders. And it should.

France’s Republican party, the UMP, and the country’s religious right, has opened a Pandora’s box of intolerance.  Someone needs to inform France’s right-wing leaders that homophobia is not the future of politics anywhere outside of Russia, Nigeria or Uganda.


(I’m told that in order to better see my Facebook posts in your feed, you need to “follow” me.)


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • Steve Theim

    Just don’t blame average Americans, who do you think owns our media, our politicians cant even criticize Israel without worries of being smeared all over the papers and the news.

  • Butch1

    Or miscarriage of any justice. ;-

  • http://crusader888.blogspot.com/ Crusader00

    The French get it. They understand who’s behind the push for sodomite marriage. France is Catholic, and has awoken. They are at the vanguard of Europe along with the Swiss People’s Party in the Swiss Confederation, Golden Dawn in Greece and JOBBIK in Hungary.

    Let us hope we can bring this movement across the Atlantic, and overthrow the regime of egalitarianism and gender theory. The Traditionalist Youth Network led by Matt Heimbach and the rejuvenation of the Southern nationalist movement are good signs.

  • http://crusader888.blogspot.com/ Crusader00

    But this is the beginning of the rebirth of France!

  • http://www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/ Benjamin Kanarek

    You have been nothing but abrasive and beyond impolite. Mr.Tranchina has been reasonable even when attacked. You are out of line!

  • lady boywonder

    YOU’LL Find the smae with the gay issue as well.

    according to PROPAGANDA USA is ” behind” on the gay rights movment as compared to ” glorious Europe”
    NOT TRUE
    many american states have had FULL GAY MARRAIGE LAWS PASSED well before conservative FRANCE.

    the list goes on just open the eyes and youll see

  • http://www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/ Benjamin Kanarek

    Hear, Hear!

  • http://www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/ Benjamin Kanarek

    Indeed! I am a Canadian living in Paris and I never experienced Anti Semitism until I moved here, where I witnessed it first hand.

  • Toto

    As a frenchman I’ll tell you just one thing they were a few thousand (about 100 000) in mixed up confusion, some yelling against gays, others against muslims, others against others. Most of them asking for “liberté d’expression” (mort de rire). A little hundred divided in extreme right or radical catholics against the jews. “La parole a été libérée” Merci monsieur Sarkozy

  • Nora Feit

    I love Paris as well, though such statements may starts with a muster seed and may catch fire.

  • Joseph in Montreal

    Hello Joey–I want to say thanks a lot for your observations on this. As a Jew, I am also concerned to get the real facts–neither diminished nor exaggerated–and I have found your observations very useful. I’ll be interviewed on a Montreal radio show later today, and will mention your perspective.

  • Lynn Grace Corbin-Lohmanns

    Wilfred de Brugin was attacked by Muslims.

    Begone with your American lies and spin!

  • scottrose

    2. Sexual orientation is a natural part of a human’s being whether it be heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual.

    Studies have shown that if a person believes sexual orientation is a choice, they are 70% more likely to be against LGBT equal rights (2007 Gallup’s annual Values and Beliefs Survey). Conversely, if a person believes sexual orientation is part of how you are created, they are 70% more likely to be in favor of LGBT equal rights.

    We’ve learned there is something much deeper here that we need to address. The religious teachings that many people of faith embrace play an important role in whether people see being gay as a choice. Many people of faith believe:

    Heterosexuality is for all people the normal and natural expression of sexuality. Homosexuality is a conscious choice to deviate from this norm.

    Gay people, according to religious teachings, are committing a sin and are an abomination.

    Gay people are making a conscious choice to go against God’s will or order.

    If it is a conscious choice, children who are exposed to gay teachers or gay married couples might CHOOSE to be gay.

    We must educate Americans on the scientific facts about sexual orientation. Homosexuality is not a deliberate choice. It is innate to some people. One’s sexual orientation is not a deliberate decision to act against God’s will.

    Just as religion-based bigotry underlies most anti-gay attitudes, the belief that homosexuality is a sinful choice is the cornerstone of religion-based prejudice against gay people. We cannot ignore it and hope to change the attitude of someone who has been taught that homosexuality is sinful. But when we offer someone a better understanding of sexual orientation, we can affect their mindset without getting mired in a never-ending theological discussion.

    Rebutting the argument that being gay is a choice is important for another reason as well. Most persons of faith, conservatives in particular, are familiar with how church teaching in the past has justified treating women and African Americans as inferior. They know that religious communities have, for the most part, rejected such prejudices as harmful and misguided. By emphasizing that being gay is an innate condition, we can get them to understand that it is equally wrong to treat others unfairly based solely on their sexual orientation.

    3. Religion-based bigotry against LGBT people is wrong…just as it was wrong to use religious teachings to justify discrimination against Native Americans, African Americans, minority religious groups, woman and interracial couples.

    Connecting the dots between historical bigotry against other groups and the attitudes of some people today toward homosexuality is one of the most effective ways to educate people about the denial of equal rights to the LGBT community.

    Most people know that, historically, religion has been used to justify discrimination against women, religious minorities and people of color. Putting anti-gay religious beliefs in this historical context can be a powerful tool in connecting discrimination that most Americans today accept as morally wrong and the discrimination faced by LGBT people. By citing historical instances of religion-based bigotry and prejudice, you allow people to be more comfortable with attitudinal change – they realize they are not stepping out alone against a commonly accepted viewpoint but rather following historical progress toward justice and equality.

    When talking about the misuse of religion to justify discrimination in the past, it is important not to say that the LGBT community’s struggle with discrimination is exactly the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Rather, the point is that religion-based bigotry has been a common denominator of injustice toward many groups in American society’s past. When given a chance, many people will see the underlying historical pattern of using religious teachings and beliefs to justify harmful discrimination.

    There is another benefit to citing other times in the past when religious teachings have been used to justify discrimination. Many times, when people of faith are challenged about their anti-gay views, they cite biblical verses or other religious texts as a safe haven when they are unable to articulate why they hold prejudiced attitudes toward LGBT people. Instead of telling people that their interpretation is wrong, you can remind them that other religious texts have been used in the past to justify attitudes and laws that are recognized today as morally wrong and unjust – such as discrimination against women, people of color and religious minorities.

    History provides the moral judgment, and we do not have to be theologians engaged in scriptural debates to point people to the judgment rendered by history.

  • scottrose

    Religion-Based Bigotry

    Religion-based bigotry is the foundation of anti-gay attitudes in our society and in the minds of a majority of Americans, particularly persons of faith. The term religion-based bigotry was coined because it best fits the description of the problem. The term religion-based bigotry encompasses the attitudes of prejudice, hostility or discrimination that are falsely justified by religious teachings or belief. We will never see full and equal rights unless we address the root of people’s anti-gay attitude.

    Religion-based bigotry is not synonymous with bigotry. It is a uniquely vile form of bigotry as the prejudice, hostility and discrimination behind the words are given a moral stamp of approval.

    Faith in America’s core message is that religious-based condemnation and rejection of LGBT people cause great harm to LGBT individuals and our society.

    We have learned that when we focus on the harms caused by religious hostility toward gay people – its destructive role in the lives of gay and lesbian Americans and explaining that being gay is not a lifestyle choice but is how you are born– persons of faith can understand why religion must no longer be misused to justify hostile attitudes and actions toward LGBT people. These stories, told by the people who have been the subject of or witness to religion-based bigotry serve as a powerful tool to begin changing the hearts and minds of persons of faith.

    Faith in America’s efforts—and those of many other LGBT organizations—are working. A recent Gallup poll that showed a majority of Americans no longer consider homosexuality as immoral and we believe this is in large part due to the efforts to show Americans that being gay is not a lifestyle choice. Personal stories move people.

    The following are core messages you can use when addressing those espousing religion-based bigotry.

    1. Religion-based bigotry causes enormous harm to LGBT people, especially young, vulnerable teens.

    More than a million LGBT teens are suffering debilitating depression because their families and religious institutions see them as deviants. Suicide rates amongst LGBT youth are four times higher than those of heterosexual youth.

    LGBT people are victims of discrimination and bigotry, which are often justified and promoted by religious teaching that says homosexuality is immoral, sinful or abominable. If we don’t talk about it, no one will know how much hurt and suffering it causes. It is particularly important for those in the religious movable middle to hear this, because no concept is more antithetical to the faith values of love and compassion than causing harm to others.

    In 2008, Faith in America published CRISIS: 40 Stories Revealing the Personal, Social and Religious Pain and Trauma of Growing Up Gay in America. Traveling the country promoting CRISIS has allowed us to see firsthand the transformative power of telling stories about our youth. People don’t want to hurt children. They may not have sympathy for an adult advocacy leader talking about job discrimination or marriage, but they do sympathize with vulnerable teenagers.

    For example, Dr. David Gushee, a Christian ethicist, author and Southern Baptist minister, wrote the following about CRISIS in the June 2009 issue of Christian Century (a mainline Protestant publication going to 70,000 members, largely clergy): “As an evangelical Christian whose career has been spent in the South, I must say I find it scandalous that the most physically and psychologically dangerous place to be (or even appear to be) gay or lesbian in America is in the most religiously conservative families, congregations and regions of this country. Many of the most disturbing stories in this volume come from the Bible Belt. This marks an appalling Christian moral failure.”

    When people of faith understand they are causing harm, it creates a conflict or question – can causing such harm to others exist comfortably with the core faith principles of love and compassion? That inner conflict will be resolved in two ways: 1) Avoidance that results in unresolved inner conflict; or 2) Analysis and reconsideration of their attitude or belief.

    It is this conflict – a deeper analysis, process or journey – that our messaging guidelines can help foster in the minds and hearts of the religious middle. This process of change does not happen overnight. But by sharing the harm caused by religiously based rejection and condemnation of gay people, we can plant the seeds of change.

  • Butch1

    I wonder . . . education will not help and facts get in the way of their rhetoric. If the facts do not agree with their rhetoric it must come from “left-wing sources, ergo they dismiss them anyway. They are prone to continue on this path to destroy us all.

  • I love Paris

    This information is not fair, and it is pure dishonesty from the American press who are always bashing on French people. If I were mentally dishonest, I would remind the American media what WASP did in the past to the black american people. But I won’t.

  • tadzio308

    Aravosis is agenda driven. The demonstration was about 120 thousand and was led by a coalition if rightists and leftists against the somewhat centrist socialist government of Hollande. Half a story doesn’t cut it. He doesn’t want to admit that those are his soul mates shouting. As the leftists are far abler at turning our crowds in Paris my gut tells me most of the marchers were of that ilk. In the provinces it would be the reverse. The presentation of the march herein is essentially a lie.

  • I love Paris

    There are many jews and rabins in Paris, and they walk in the streets in traditional garments in full security. daily, I come across some of them, in the eleventh district. They are not persecuted. Fortunately. Beware of brainwashing.

  • lady boywonder

    good now stop blaming this crap on ” Americans” broom in front of your own door a little Europe

  • I love Paris

    You must notice that they were few thousands only. In France we are over 60 million of people. This was only a very small amount of French people. There have always been right wingers in France. You must also notice that during the second world war, many jews were saved by the population who helped them.. Fortunately, the French are not extremists in their large majority. I’m more preoccuped by the extremist Islamists who are increasing in France. I’m French, sorry for my approximative English. You may say that French people are not helpful or not very kind in Paris, it is true, but believe me, very few of us are like that.

  • Archie Meijer

    So what does it say about your personality if you use an optional liason or not?

    Where there are options it’s more likely than not that this will correlate with something rather than the choice being completely random.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Don’t you think it’s a little late for that warning?

    Or is it the problem with irony that not everybody gets it?

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    If I am “fatuous and revolting” only to a fool like you, it really does not matter; however, the sort of people who your bigotry would frighten and sicken may actually have an influence over the rights of gay and lesbian people into a foreseeable future.

    Keep posting here, where we can ignore your arrogance and explain away your bigotry as PTSD, we all suffer from that, and we understand. Do not carry your hate message out in public where it will harm the cause of equal rights.

  • scottrose

    You are fatuous and revolting.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Thank you Godinho.

    I wasn’t always as polite as I’d like but I have been reasonable.

    I’ve been reading “A Team of Rivals,” Doris Kearns Goodwin’s brilliant biography of Lincoln in the context of his elegant management of the talented but ambitious and conflicted cabinet. that he chose because his country needed the very best men in each position, even though he knew it would be a daily trial for him to manage them.

    If you ever want to spend time with a leader who was unimaginably “clear, reasonable and polite” and good humored to book, in the fact of incredible stress… I’d recommend spending time with Abe Lincoln.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    I’ll tell you why: Because a malicious gay anti-religious bigot is just as dangerous; in fact, at this moment, quite possibly more dangerous to gay and lesbian people than even these 500,000 creepy, evil right-wing Catholic bigots including the neo-Nazi clowns who hijacked their demonstration, thereby delegitimizing their ugly cause in the eyes of the entire world.

  • scottrose

    Another farting asshole heard from. It is simply unbelievable that on a gay interest news site, there are people minimizing the horror of a mob of anti-gay bigots taking to the streets of Paris to gay bash politically in the company of Jew haters screaming that Jews have no place in France. You could wonder if anybody here has ever heard of the Vel d’Hiver roundup, or about Pierre Seel’s memoir. The level of fatuous idiocy is jaw dropping. Why would anybody say the least thing to defend the character of malicious religious anti-gay bigots? Doing that reveals a lack of comprehension of the real-life effects of the religious anti-gay bigots’ bigotry on LGBT people.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Thank you Gordon… This is a very difficult balance to maintain. On the obvious side of history, Nazism, in any form represents an existential threat to Jews, homosexuals Roma, Jehovah’s Witnesses and anyone who stands up for civil society and the rights of the vulnerable; the corollary danger is to overdetermine on the threat posed by the limited number of anti-social pond-scum that exists in every society.

    If we fail in the first we won’t be critically aware or the presence of Nazi threats; we will not track their crimes and investigate to make sure that they are controlled by criminal prosecution — cowards, in general, are deterred by punishment for acts of cruelty. If we fail in the second, we inflate their importance, which can feed their numbers and thus put at risk the very civil society that is our only protection from thugs and liars, short of war.

    I was born in August of 1944 — as the Nazis were being driven out of Paris. My country has been at war, essentially, for my entire lifetime. I’d prefer that my children and grandchildren have the chance for a different experience.

  • gordon

    Thanks for your really interesting, well-informed and helpful comments. The gang of thugs in these pictures & videos have received way too much attention because of sensationalist, internet ‘journalism’ and hysterical social media.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Interesting comment… but — since you brought it up — I am a Jew. Therefore I am someone who is intensely aware of the re-emergence of European anti-semitism, which has never gone away. I am also aware that the social forces arrayed against that bigoted idiocy are stronger than they have ever been. This is not a potential repeat of thirties UNLESS there is a repeat of the total economic collapse of the twenties, in which case all bets are off. However, even in that situation conditions in Europe are vastly different.

    What I have been saying all along — without showing a driver’s license — it that as someone who is hypersensitive to the issue of antisemitism, it is imperative that we do not lump people together, as a form of reverse bigotry. As I posted somewhere else in this discussion, “I’m a Jew with an Italian last name who went through Catholic schools to jesuit university — NO ONE needs to tell me about Catholic antisemitism.”

    Also, as much, as I distrust the Catholic Church, Vatican II has changed their rules and rewritten their history. After 2000 years, the “Christ Killer” blood libel is no longer official Church doctrine. I’m not naive. that has not trickled down into the consciousness of primitive believers or intellectual Catholic fascists, but it no longer has the imprimatur of the Pope — especially this pope, which dramatically limits the down side of bigoted Catholic action. They could still turn out 500,000 vicious conards in the street against mariage pour tous, but the wholesale connection between the Catholic Church and the fascist political parties is more limited. There is even the possibility that the Catholic fascists will be targeted by the Vatican… we’ll see.

    I grew up in a community of survivors, including my late Congressman Tom Lantos, with whom I collaborated on HIV policy for over a decade.

    I have a degree in history and I’ve studied the holocaust throughout my adult life. Everyday for the last week, in honor of Holocaust Remembrance Day, I have posted photographs on my tumblr page from an essay I did at Auschwitz – Birkenau over a three year period in the in the 1990s.

    There has never been a time when human rights had more allies around the world, which is part of our problem. Actions by the Likud Party, which I suspect both you and I oppose, have created a situation for legitimate critics of Israel (many of whom are Jews) that has brought the anti Semitic scum of the world out of the woodwork. In this case the anti semites must be singled out and attacked, without lumping together all critics of Israel as bigots.

    I refuse to be characterized as an apologist for scum, when i have offered more powerful tactics and a stronger strategy to defeat them. Exaggerating the strength of these creeps — assuming that a majority of Catholics are with them — weakens us in a struggle to defeat this cancer, That’s as bad as making too little of the threat or dismissing it as insignificant, which I have not done.

    This is a time for action — not hysteria. This is a time to unite in response to a real risk in order to gather as broad a base as possible for political action, in defense of human rights. Painting potential allies with a broad brush of bigotry narrows our coalition and weakens that action.

  • Godinho

    Joey has been clear, reasonable and polite. You are the troll, Scottrose.

  • j’en ai marre

    “For now, life in Europe is infinitely better than living in America…” Life for whom? For a Jew??? Statistics do not lie. Crimes and violence against Jews have been on the upswing with each passing year. And I ask, just who are the ones who commit those crimes???

  • gerry22

    both are correct, archie !

  • Archie Meijer

    Is the liaison used in “pas ‘a toi”? That is do they pronounce it “pa ‘a toi” or “pa s’a toi”? It’s hard to tell. Trying to learn French.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Sorry, but I don’t understand your comment.

  • Joss Malone

    This reply has a familiar ring to it too.

  • scottrose

    Again, jerkwad, in your first comment here, you said that the current public hate-mongering against gay people on the part of right wing Catholics is not “fairly comparable” to neo-Nazis In other words, you are clueless about how the Nazis commenced their political actions against homosexuals.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    This being France, more than 50% of those who voted for marriage equality are, at least nominally, Roman Catholics. If you think it is in the interest of the LGBT community or of anyone who seeks social justice, to lump all Catholics together with those who are neo-Nazis or support neo-Nazis, go ahead on.

    Obviously, I did not say “it really wasn’t so bad.” I said that the bigoted and ignorant way that you mischaracterized all Catholics, would not be only strategically suicidal for the LGBT community in Europe, it was so dishonest as to be immoral and so inaccurate as to be stupid.

    I’ll happily let others decide whether I am a troll and whether a fool like you speaks for the community. In either event, I will say no more.

  • ComradeRutherford

    When I make that statement, I am specifically referring to those Conservatives who espouse the same ideas as we heard from central Europe 80 years ago. Such as: round up all the [insert today’s ‘undesirable’ population], or women should only be allowed to be mothers and nothing more, or legalize discrimination. We hear this constantly from Conservatives in the USA, and now we hear it from the far-right in Europe.

    I am not talking about nit-picking over fine-grained details in a pedantic way. Even in their minds, the details don’t really matter, it’s the overall goals they are after that mirror Europe in the 1930s.

  • scottrose

    Again, asshole; this is an LGBT-interest website. A reporter for it reported on anti-gay CATHOLICS hate-mongering in the streets of Paris. A shocking number among them gave Nazi salutes and screamed antisemitic filth. You are here as an idiot troll, saying that it really wasn’t so bad. You are SUCH an asshole. A mob of anti-gay bigots protesting gay rights, and you say it isn’t anything to worry about. Fuck you!

  • Butch1

    Another one of these ads has gotten through the SPAM checks.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    You over-generalize like every other bigot.
    It is with attitudes like yours that politics becomes impossible,

    There are millions of Catholics in the world, only a fraction of them are right wing fanatics. If all 250,000,000 Catholics are the enemy of your position; your position will fail. Making enemies of that percentage of Catholics who are not bigots and not your enemies is stupid. Most Europeans know enough about the history of the Church to be vaccinated against its more evil potentials… The 500,000 mostly right wing Catholics who marched against equality, are very unhappy that they lost. They lost with the collaboration of millions of Catholics.

    I do not need instruction from you on the history of Roman Catholic bigotry, or the danger it represents; however, I know that bigotry like yours makes it more dangerous.

  • Olterigo

    Very simple, really. Because excusing an assault on Jews because they’re Jews and some Jews did something that you might consider bad is not that far off from excusing an assault on a woman who you think was “dressed too provocatively.”

  • chucke

    Sorry I ruffed your feathers.

  • chucke

    One of my best friends was raped in the 80’s with her young daughter and a classmate in the next bedroom. She was on TV a lot at the time and anounced her rape and then learned the Home Owners Association had supress the rapes fearing a decline in the property values. It took some time but we figured out it was the man who read the meters and took that evidence to the police. And why did you ask this question?

  • scottrose

    The Nazis WERE anti-gay. Have you never read Pierre Seel’s book? What the fuck is wrong with you? The Vatican signed a political treaty with Adolph Hitler, the Reichskonkordat. The Vatican gained independent nation status from Mussolini by agreeing to go along with his fascist government. There were mandatory Catholicism lessons, daily in all Italian schools. These Catholics specifically came out on the streets to gay bash politically, to say that gay people are not human enough to deserve equality. They were joined with their fellow Jew haters who gave Hitler salutes and screamed for Jews to be driven out of France. VA TE FAIRE VOIR! LE CONNARD, (DEUX Ns) C’EST BEL ET BIEN TOI.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    If you mean”European fascists,” Then I agree with that.
    Again, if you are lumping all “Conservatives” together as “Fascists,”
    that’s absurd. Rational public policy has often ben the product of good intentions and good math. Those Liberals who operate without good math fail and failure breeds extremism.

    Both liberals and conservatives are capable of bad math, as is the contemporary case with the chaos of French socialism and the foot-dragging drain on the economy of extreme austerity by British conservatives. However, lets be fair to the British Conservative Party, with whom I disagree on economics; they have proved the lie that Conservatives are fascists, as they have led the way on equal marriage rights and abortion rights.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Yes. I agree.
    That makes them conards.
    It does not make them neo-Nazis.
    and, as i continue to assert:
    it is unwise to falsely claim that it does.

    Founding and directing AIDS Prevention ACTION Network (the HIV & Hepatitis street outreach and syringe exchange program in Silicon Valley) for 22 years, taught me never to prejudge where potential allies would come from. It forced me to confront my prejudices against cops and Catholics, when cops and Catholic priests showed up to help us fight for our right to serve people at risk of acquiring or spreading HIV.

    Now, I live on the Med, between Montpelier — the city where the mayor proudly performed the first gay marriage in France and Bezier, where the mayor refused to acknowledge same sex marriages until French law forced him to do so. People have the right to be judged on their behavior as individuals.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Thank you, PapaVet,. WW II was so devastating for so many people; the holocaust was so horrible not only for what it did to Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, European Communists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. and but for what it said — despite the millions of heroic individuals and ultimate triumph — about humanity.

    If there is a lesson of the holocaust, it is not that evil exists; but that it must be recognized and resisted. An essential part of that is seeing it clearly and not making overbroad condemnations. For example, there are millions of conservatives in America who are not racists and not anti-Semites; I still disagree with most of them about many if not most things, but there is a center — one that’s not in the middle of the road with the yellow lines and dead armadillos — where politics takes place. That is what makes democracy possible. America is losing that center. When politics becomes impossible, war is inevitable.

    I’ve seen enough war as I suspect you have too.

  • Butch1

    Our GOP should take notice as this can very well happen to their own party if they let the right-wing crazies take it over.

  • Olterigo

    Whose “their corporate fascist economic agenda?” I presume you’re referring here to “right wing Jews in the US?” (Otherwise, your sentence doesn’t make much sense.) So, what exactly you’re surprised about? That these were rightists yelling out “Jews, get out!” and not the left?

    Some of us have relatives in Europe, some of us travel there, when we can afford it. And when we do, we sometimes visit European synagogues as religious or historic landmarks. And when we visit those synagogues, we can observe something shocking to Americans – synagogues located in an almost secret location (Madrid) or looking like a little fortress built in the 80s or 90s in the middle of the rest of one unitary building obviously built in the end of the 19th century, with thin (and I mean a couple of inches) slivers of windows to prevent something thrown in (Paris) and/or having crowd blocks (same place) or a large fence and entry only with passport and after questioning (if you’re not a member of the congregation).

    Can’t speak for others, but I saw all of these with my own eyes. I was showing my photos to relatives and I told them about it. Not with the intention to turn them Republican, because I am not Republican. But I did not lie to them about what I saw and what I felt. Whatever their political choices, they should know about what’s going on elsewhere.

    And some of us just read the local Jewish press, which does cover stories of Jewish interest, like the lack of reaction of the Swedish SD Party to the mayor Reepalu’s statements. (Even the leftist Jewish Daily Forward prints those news.) And, I’d bet that the vast majority of the “right-wing Jews” simply read those stories, too. And they make their own decisions about who to vote for. And while I disagree with that choice, I can understand why they are making it.

  • pappyvet

    Thank you Joey. And yes we have a huge hate problem here in this country. I am not inclined to label someone a Nazi even though that tag does bring to it a set of beliefs and actions which are readily identifiable. I do not believe that a person need be a card carrying member complete with swastika to exhibit those traits. Many rightwingers in this country would rend their garments if called a Nazi though their path is very similar. It’s the “It’s ok because WE are doing it,” rationalizations that so many fall into. But blind hatred is just that and it matters not whether the people are catholic ,martian , or Nazi.

  • pappyvet

    I understand the point you are making Joey. But for me it is the behavior that is in question not whether they are wearing jackboots or not.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    I appreciate your comment PappyVet; what you say is unquestionably true.

    I do not minimize the threat posed by the far right, as we can see in Greece, when a nation’s economy crashes & burns, people are vulnerable to cheap solutions. I am certainly not saying that could never again happen in Europe — although probably not with this batch of neo-Nazi clowns. History does repeat itself, but it doesn’t like reruns.

    However, as an American citizen who lives in Europe, I’m more concerned about the US where a VERY right wing (extremely racist but not vocally anti-Semitic) Tea-party now dominates one party in a two party system. These people are nuts and their role in US politics makes their idiocy a danger to the entire world.

    Many years ago, when I first moved to Amsterdam, I was amazed as I started to get to know people in a truly tolerant society. I guess I was gushing in a way that it is common for Americans, who first experience Dutch openness, to gush, when my friend Reinout said: “Don’t get too excited about all this, Joey, we Dutch have our Nazis too. It’s just that right now OUR Nazis are not in power.”

    Ronald Reagan was president then. I thought America was going the wrong direction.Even though, today, you have a decent man as president, the US is in a very bad place… in my trans-oceanic view.

  • scottrose

    The blood of gay bashing victims is dripping off of the Conservative French Catholics’ fingers. The Conservative French Catholics’ fingers are soaked in gay-bashed blood.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    There are so many unfounded assumptions in that post that it is difficult to respond with a reasonable comment.

    First, the last think that anyone could reasonably say in reference to me is that I was “brainwashed in a Catholic school.” That absurdity comes with the assumption that I do not know the history of Roman Catholic anti-Semitism from Origin and other Jew-hating early fathers of the Church, throu Pope Paul’s edict in 1555, that forced Jews out of the professions and into the ghetto (an Italian word). Not that you could possible know but I live in the Languedoc on the eastern edge of Cathar country, where a pope in conjunction with Parisian nobles pulled off the largest land grab in European history by slaughtering tens of thousands of people where I live. They solved the problem of the last denizens of Bezier who sought refuge in the cathedral by burning it to the ground with them in it. When the noble who headed the assault asked the bishop what to do he is reported to have given that famous quote: “Kill them all God knows his own.” That slaughter of free thinkers was a victory for Catholic bigotry and Roman Catholic orthodoxy that led directly to the establishment of the Inquisition right here where I live.

    There is a longer version of this story, reflected in my entire life to demonstrate that you missed the mark, but I will repeat the essence of every word I’ve posted here: “I assert that only realism has survival value.”

    It is incorrect to equate conservative French Catholics with neo Nazis, even though many of them would welcome a right wing regime and some of those folks would accept any amount of racism and anti-semitism that accompanied it (as many Catholics embraced Vichy, however they are NOT the same thing. There were also quite conservative Catholic priests in the concentration camps. More Catholics accepted the Vichy regime than opposed it, but that is true for more than 80% of all the French — by any count, Only about 3% of French people were in the French Resistance Underground.

    I know those things — and may more about the history of Roman Catholic anti-Semitism — but I repeat: it is the opposite of helpful to equate Conservative French Catholics with neo-Nazis. It is also incorrect.

  • dula

    I was referring to right wing Jews in the US. They have tolerated the bigotry of conservatives in order to enact their corporate fascist economic agenda.

  • scottrose

    The Catholic Church is itself guilty of antisemitic crimes, not to mention that it is the world’s single largest anti-gay hate group. You were brainwashed when you went through a Catholic school. That you were brainwashed in a Catholic school speaks to why you are creating alibis for gay-bashing Jew hating Catholics.

  • scottrose

    The heterosupremacist delusion is every bit as bad as the master race delusion. The fact that the ‘right wing Catholics” only took the streets to gay bash politically hardly would be a comfort.

  • Olterigo

    You want to know why some Jews have gone right-wing? Have you tried getting into a European synagogue? In Paris, there need to be crowd barriers and other security to simply go in. And these have appeared over the years and during the rule of left governments with their unwillingness to sometimes even admit that anything is wrong. Look up the name “ilmar reepalu” for a more recent example of what’s been going on in some places in Europe.

  • cambridgemac

    Thanks for clarifying.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    Steven, you missed my point. The French press showed visual evidence of the size of the crowd in relation to the size of this segment of the crowd.

    I have tried not to lead with personal information to keep this on a factual level, but I am a Jew with an Italian last name who went through Catholic schools. I have a degree in history and have spent much of my life studying the holocaust. No one need tell me about pervasive anti-semitism, as I have had a ringside seat, to see it, in person, from country clubs in California, cocktail parties in Manhattan, to horse shows in Pennsylvania up and down Latin America and Europe from Moscow to London.

    I grew up in a community with a substantial number of survivors, including my late congressman Tom Lantos, with whom I collaborated for years. You can see part of a photo essay that I did on Auschwitz – Birkeneu over a three year period (from 1994-96) on my tumblr page . I have been posting a few of the images with some historical notes all this last week, in honor of Holocaust Memorial Day.

    My point, which I will make again, is simple. Based upon visual evidence of the scale of this infestation, this neo-Nazi/street-creep exhibition composed less than 10% of the Conservative demonstration. it serves no good purpose to minimize or to inflate either the numbers or the influence of the pond scum of European civilization.

    As always, this is a dangerous situation; in fact, a potentially life-threatening situation, for my children and grandchildren. I assert that only realism has survival value.

  • Olterigo

    Do you blame women for being raped? You know, the old “She was dressed too provocatively” canard?

  • http://thebrainpolice.blogspot.com microdot

    I absolutely agree with you regarding Hollande’s personal life, but you have to admit, coupled with the ineptness of his governments ability to deal and respond to the rise of the the even messier opposition, it only gives them the catalyst they need to make it personal. The press has a very different role here than it does in America, but the influence of America is a very destructive influence.

  • Anonymous

    My point was not to be macho, but to point out that the French Neo-Nazis are idolizing a mentality that killed their own kind. They’re deserving of mockery in my opinion.

  • MJL

    I do feel like our little problem realized that it was losing its power here slowly but surely so now it’s trying to drag a beautiful country down overseas by taking advantage of whatever current issues it’s having now.

    It’s doing already with Uganda and Nigeria, they among the easiest

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Microdot seems to support your view.

  • GreenEagle

    You are the most disgusting kind of lying scum. There is not one shred of evidence of anyone in Congress having dual citizenship with Israel. Of course, there are a couple dozen right wing websites that claim otherwise, but of course they are a pack of racist liars just like you.

  • Steven Leahy

    Nice that you’ve been a photojournalist for 40 years but with all due respect, you weren’t there either per your own admission. I have lived in Europe myself and also know first-hand that anti-semitism runs deep in many places. So you’re making assumptions. How do you know which reporting was accurate and which was not?

  • chucke

    start with Eric Cantor who invited Bibi to speak to the House and insult the President.

  • cambridgemac

    Fewer than 5% of French citizens attend Mass. There are not a lot of practicing Catholics.

  • cambridgemac

    50,000 Frenchmen died in the six week Battle of France (May-June 1040) when the Maginot Line held, but the Ardennes did not. That’s as many Americans as died in Vietnam in 9 years – for a country with a population less than 1/4 that of the US. Think about it. The equivalent of 200,000 Americans dying in six weeks. (We’ve never suffered losses like that. Ever.) The meme of “French cowardice” is false, craven, and unworthy of a great people. Keep it on the Tea Party websites where it belongs. Not here.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    StraightGrandmother: Without going to the specialist bigot sites, you can go the the FoxNews blog or to the DailyCaller and see overt anti-Semitism every day, in the USA.

    Every nativist perversion is available there.

    I actually have a question. I’m someone who believe in the freedom of speech; I take it almost absolutely. I take it to the degree that I’m a Jew who supported the Nazis right to march in Skokie Illinois, even though it turned my stomach.

    But that’s not my question.

    My question is: Does freedom of speech allow someone to engage in ugly racist behavior under the sheet of a pseudonym? I really don’t know the legal answer and I not clear what I think the position should be, but it seems to me that at the least, most people would be more civilized, if they were know and not anonymous.

    Should people posting on the internet be required to do so under their own name (or at least with a pseudonym that is registered at the site with the person’s legal name)?

    I know that if some outlets demanded that people post in their legal name, I’d choose to post there over those who accepted random BS from cowards, which is precisely what many of the right-wing sites get.

    As a private business decision that would have no constitutional constraints.

    Anybody else have an opinion about that?

    Ps. As I wrote above, I do live in France and it’s 3:00 am so I’m out for now…jt

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    That is substantially correct. However, for an American audience of people who have not traveled, especially, for those who not spent time in France or Italy, I would be careful not to under-estimate the Communist Parties. PCF has the largest meeting office in my town and among the most vibrant politicking… even with a small share of the vote. in fact that things I like best about the Communist Party’s influence are because they don’t have a big share of the vote but their share is a constant voice for the poor and I believe that France is better for the fact that that voice is heard.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    That very much reflects my experience as an American, who lives in France.

    I would disagree with only one thing. M. Hollande’s personal life is no sloppier than many of his predecessors; it is the destructive tabloidization of the press that is different and despicable. Now that these leeches have drawn blood, I do not know if they can be stopped, even in France.

    I believe investigative reporting should go anywhere it needs to to get at the truth of as it affects public policy; I also believe that when a politician’s personal privacy is violated as American politicians routinely are and as M. Hollande’s was, a country gets a different sort of person into politics, or more properly a very large percentage of smart and talented people just won’t put up with it. That is a loss to public service that is not balanced by the addition of the adolescent, sophomoric titillation the we get from gossip and cheap moralizing.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    I’ve been a photojournalist for over forty years, I know honest reporting. Saying: “it’s on camera and it happened…” is a good opening sentence for a story about how someone was deceived by biased or incompetent reporting.

    I saw honest reporting on this ugly event in the French press. Accuracy doe not “trivialize” events; exaggerating their numbers does not protect anyone from all to real dangers that these creeps wish to pose.

    The far right is always a danger, but right now, outside of Greece, they do not pose the same level of public danger in Europe, that they do in the US. While there is always the threat from wealthy fascists in the background, these clowns are more at the level of the KKK in the US — ugly, obviously evil in intent, but impotent.

    I live here; if I see signs that is changing, I’ll be the first to let you know. Right now the danger I see, is Europe going the American way of privatization and destroying a public sector that serves the needs of the people, rather than fighting to make those services more efficient. In other words, what is see is Europe becoming as stupid as America, but fortunately there are countervailing forces here.

    For now, life in Europe is infinitely better than living in America, but there are always risks, so… We’ll see…

  • Steven Leahy

    Distasteful? You sound like you’re dangerously close to trivializing it by minimizing it and brushing off its importance. This is how it all starts. Not sure how it’s bad reporting…it’s on camera and it happened – and those “protestors” seemed like an organized part of the procession, rather than having “crashed” it.

  • Anonymous

    It’s because human ignorance will always exist; some people just have a brain that’s able to separate them from their animal instincts. Then you have Neo-Nazis, who send the message that it’s okay to be a thug, to act like an animal and that this is good. These are the people that keep us close to animals. Having a brain and conscience is unique to humans in a scientific sense, but some people haven’t evolved much

  • Bill_Perdue

    It as much a part of French culture as it is ours and if think anti-Semitism. it is no doubt not the most common form of bigotry – that’s reserved for Africans and especially north Africans and for muslims and ourselves but it’s always been embedded in French culture by the roman cult.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/171538/Dreyfus-affair

  • arcadesproject

    I guess it was only a matter of time before this stuff started up again. For awhile, people vented at immigrants, Muslims and Muslim immigrants. But the situation appears to be devolving into…things we don’t even want to think about.

  • http://MyLifeTumbled.tumblr.com/ Joey Tranchina

    That is not entirely accurate. It was a march of French conservatives, who are mainly right-wing Catholics, which is a distasteful position to me, but it is not illegal and not fairly comparable to neo-Nazis. This march was crashed, as I have seen dozens of marches crashed in New York and San Francisco by a much smaller cadre of street anarchists looking for attention with some number of neo-nazis,

    Yes there were neo-nazis; yes there was violence but no, there were not thousands of violent Neo-Nazis.” What there was is bad enough, without bad reporting gives a small number of creeps the global shock value that they desired.

    I’m in France but I wasn’t there. i did see broader coverage — that is shots that gave a better sense of the crowd that what actually there by showing the whole crowd and a tight shot not cropped to look as if all the hands were raised in the Nazi salute.

    I live in France. I hate that fact that this existed but neither am I a big fan of sloppy journalism that sensationalized a terrible event to make it look worse than it was.

  • http://thebrainpolice.blogspot.com microdot

    I’m an American who is French by choice…I hold dual nationalities. I am very troubled by the rise of fascist neo nationalism in Europe. At least here, we have dialogue. We scream at each other. But, the mess you are seeing in these demonstrations is a small minority of the French. Lately, the religious right has been trying to somehow forge an alliance between the orthodox islamic community and the ultra catholics. This is being fed by the crop of vultures, the UMP, the FN who think they will pick up the bloody scraps of meat left over. There is nothing like FOX here. The radical press is fractured and at war with each other. There is a rising AntiFa youth movement here. I live in a very rural area. Interestingly enough, the mayor of my village is openly gay and extremely popular and has been re elected 3 times. The public face of hate that the media sensationalizes in these highly organized demonstrations does not reflect the France I know. I see how the UMP is trying to emulate the American GOP and the right wing media is trying to play the FOX NEWS game, but most French do not want to turn the clock back. Most of what you see is the result of the exploitation of the economic realities we live with for political purposes. I have to admit, the Hollande government has been incredibly inept on so many levels in being responsive to this. Hollande has given the right so much to exploit just with his very sloppy personal life. Hard times, but not hopeless! In a lot of ways the demonstrations you show in your article are more damaging in the long run to the conservatives. The repercussions of this are being heard and discussed, dissected and exposed constantly. Thanks for highlighting these events, but remember, this is not the entire picture.

  • GreenEagle

    Which Congressmen have dual citizenship with Israel, chucke? Put up or shut up

  • Anonymous

    Further perpetuating the idea that a lot of conservatives are self-loathing and ignorant. Neo-Nazis in France, Russia, and many other countries prove this. They either have no idea about history, or they just hate themselves. I call that a traitor.

  • Anonymous

    And they don’t understand why they did.

  • AnthonyLook

    Nazi is to Conservatives as Tea Party Birthers is to Racism.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    There’s always plenty of hate and bigotry to go around.

  • ComradeRutherford

    Just like in American, European Conservatives are angry that they lost WWII.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I’m sure of it.

  • pappyvet

    WOW! I just figured out that if you click on someones icon you can follow them !
    I don’t know what that does but swell. You are being followed! Don’t be scared , it’s only me. I can’t run fast. ;]

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “—-but we can make illegal the practice of fomenting hate and violence.” BINGO!

  • pappyvet

    thanks ! I do hope that we live to see the day when our race gets it together but I am doubtful

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    LIKE!!!!!

  • dula

    I suppose that history could be in the cellular memory of French citizens but I don’t see how that could be a big enough factor to trigger such reactive anti-Semitism.

  • chucke

    Well my hope is that J Street and American Jews plus the millions the US give Israel may be given some consideration in Israel.

  • Silver_Witch

    They started the hatred of those they dislike without realizing that once you start hatred there is no stopping it…soon the people who have been fed this diet act out and their hatred grows and consumes them.

    I also think that hatred is much much louder than love and those who love peace…so of course it looks much more horrible – than handing out flowers in the streets. And our media loves to promote hatred and so they run these stories which again feed the monster.

  • chucke

    Well you maybe right, however if AIPAC, Bibi, neocons and the Congressmen who have dual citizenship with Israel trap the US into a war with Iran there maybe lots of marching going on.

  • anonn

    You know there are more jews in america then Israel? wtf does israel have to do with the french telling jews to get out of their country? Anyways your anti-israel post is quite ironic given the article above where it mentions the forced emigration of jews to israel. Many of the jews that ended up in israel were forced there.

  • pappyvet

    Once again we are reminded that bigotry and hatred have no borders and hold no social boundary.
    From greed to race hatred to homophobia and the war on women , the same old horrible fable woven for centuries.
    We are familiar with it’s content. well aware if it’s beginning , it’s climax , and it’s hoped for ending.
    In this story woven from before the burning times to the coffee houses of Berlin and beyond the message stays the same: “They are not US so we must steal from them , beat them , torture them and kill them if we can. Rationalize it any way possible till the job gets done.”

  • Anonymous

    Wishful thinking

  • jomicur

    No amendment needed. There are already well-established exceptions to freedom of speech. The famous example of yelling “Fire!” in a theater is the most obvious of them, but there are likewise laws against inciting to commit crimes, inciting to riot, etc. All we need are judges who aren’t afraid to enforce those exceptions. (Of course, with nothing but right-wingers in congress and the White House, that may not be realistic. But I can dream, can’t i?)

  • jomicur

    It will spread to the US. What is laughably called the “religious” right has been slowly moving their followers in this direction since the day St. Ronnie took office. And they’ll get away with it. I’m terribly afraid that the “original constructionists” in our courts will apply first and second amendment fundamentalist principles to justify it.

  • Anonymous

    Aww, they’re acting like they didn’t get their asses kicked in WW2.

  • chucke

    wow what a thoughtful reply! No one can question the actions of the state of Israel? The actions of all other countries fair game but not Israel?

  • GreenEagle

    Blame it on the Jews, Chucke. Way to go.

  • Bill_Perdue

    It’s not so much a question of religious belief as of the institutionalized anti-Semitism of the catholic cult. Anti-Semitism is partly based on religious hostility but mostly a carryover from the Dark Ages when the catholic cult enriched itself by killing and then confiscating the goods and wealth of Jews, rich and poor alike. That practice was very pronounced throughout catholic Europe and had, via the various national Inquisitions, other victims, including women, gays, muslims and protestants.

  • chucke

    At what point do you ask how the policies of Bibi result in this? America rescued the French twice grateful for Lafayette but I don’t think there will be a third time.

  • UncleBucky

    Remember, it was for their belief in not participating in any National processes that JWs were prosecuted in German, not at least officially for their religion (I could be wrong). The idea was that they needed soldiers, war materiel workers and baby machines and the JWs were against that. But of course current day bigotry might go against JWs for not being of the right dogma.

    Now, Scientologists, I dunno. To me, they are a cult, but they should not be prohibited unless they harm people (alá Jonestown) or engage in illegal practices or attempt to hijack any legal processes. Who knows? But they should be daylighted, fer sure.

  • UncleBucky

    True. These mental misfits in France HAVE NO IDEA what that salute meant to their grandparents and parents in France when the NAZIs took over in 1940.

    Maybe these people are descendants of collaborators? Do we recall what happened to collaborators after the Allies freed France in 1944?

    Seriously, if I were French, I would regard these people as traitors to the Nation.

  • UncleBucky

    “symptoms of capitalism in decay and crisis”

    I had to read on to see that this symptom (hate speech) is a deflection from the actual effects of capitalism in decay, crisis and demoralization. Scapegoating on a national (France, US, UK, Russia, etc. take one’s pick…) without any visualizable end except you-know-what.

    Now, with regard to the Free Speech objections that I see you are getting (no?), I don’t think also that the constitution protects hate speech, and that it doesn’t have to be amended for that. It’s a matter of interpretation, it seems, that we already know that yelling “fire” in a cinema could/will produce a dangerous and even fatal stampede and that there are penalties for doing that that would not violate the constitution. Personally, and I only play a lawyer on TV (a-hem), hate-speech (speech that motivates people to violence) should be prosecuted in such a way that we can damp down this awful return of fascism, racism and bigotry of some against all others.

    I mean, take your pick, Jews, Muslims, People of Colour, LGBT People, Women, Unemployed, Underemployed, Economically-Rendered Poor, People with Obsolete Skills, Children and Adults with Developmental/Mental Problems, why is it OK for this minority of haters to pick on one group, then the other, and then another, to justify their hurt feelings?

    There is no excuse, is the answer. We must cut out this cancer or cripple it. Since these are citizens, too, regardless of their bad behaviour, we can’t cut them out (although we can put them into education camps IMHO), but we can make illegal the practice of fomenting hate and violence. First the leaders, then the purveyors and then the users, each to his/her contribution. There’s a nice prison in San Francisco Bay where the “leaders” could be put right now. I’d love it.

  • lynchie

    It serves the interests of the 1%. The more hate, radicalization and protests against this group or that religion or that minority or that person the more our minds are kept off the theft of everything not nailed down. The masses devolve into a morass of fear and loathing for one another and it allows the crackdown by the police and military. They don’t mind one group beating and killing another as long as they have all the money and can return home to their gated communities protected by security guards armed to the teeth with tanks, sound machines and automatic weapons.

  • tamarz

    depressing….

  • UncleBucky

    Pardon my French:

    Fuck you, French, Russian, German, US, any other racists/bigots.

    Thank you.

    Message ends.

  • dula

    Are the French really so religious that they fall for the Jews killed Jesus BS?
    What is the source of animosity against Jews in France? Jews have the same French culture and appearance as other French folk so making them into some foreign enemy is a stretch. I can see how the LGBT community can be perceived as threatening to traditional gender roles, and therefore a feared enemy, but I don’t get the inspiration for the hatred of Jews.

  • PeteWa

    Quick, someone get them a copy of Jonah Goldberg’s book to read!

  • MJL

    knowing them, they probably are.

  • MyrddinWilt

    A big factor is the collapse of the Communist party which was home to a large protest vote. With the communists out of the picture a large fraction of the radical left flipped to the radical right. The National Front grew out of that and is the semi-respectable part of the movement. But they probably don’t get too upset at the folk who join smaller groups that don’t field candidates, they just organize neo-nazi protests and riots.

    The French UMP and the UK Conservatives are both chasing a far right challenge. The UKIP doesn’t have an openly racist platform but their candidates leave little doubt as to where their sympathies (and their jackboots) lie.

  • 4th Turning

    Recommend wikipedia homework assignment and virtual tour of
    Oradour-sur-Glane (French catholics(?) locked in their homes before
    being set ablaze). The post-war disneyfication of Europe almost within a
    decade or two of what was total devastation seems to have succeeded
    in wiping its conscience hard drive clean also. With deep respect for all
    those watching this turn of events and coming away even more determined
    in their resolve to light candles in the gathering darkness.
    2 million Brits demonstrated this month against the bush/blair invasion
    of Iraq.

  • Hue-Man

    My understanding is that the far-right National Front party, with its anti-immigrant, anti-gay policies, has been the driving force with its 15% – 20% of the national vote. Like most other left/leftish parties, the Socialist Party has drifted to the center. In response, the UMP has shifted to the right to shore up its conservative flank. (Like American progressives, the extreme-left in France has been left out in the cold.) The real villain is the Front National flirting with Neo-Nazi policies but the UMP is complicit by not standing up against bigotry.

    With the American two-party system, the far-right policies of the TeaParty/GOP are not driven by the Democrats but by its own membership. The GOP could torpedo the Talibangelicals in its midst without

    affecting its corporate/1%er donor base and without ceding any votes to the Democrats. Without the Republican name, the far-right fringe would be left to die off in their lawn chairs; they wouldn’t turn up to campaign or vote but would be replaced by centrist minorities, assuming the purge was real. So far the GOP has whispered the talk but hasn’t walked the walk…

    I’m more concerned about the French situation – the TeaPartiers will soon die off whereas the skin-heads/Neo-Fascists will continue their violent ways with the support of the two major right-wing parties.

  • Bill_Perdue

    The constitution does not protect speech aimed at promoting or fomenting violence and if did we’d just have to amend it.

    I was speaking not just of Bachmann and the Republican right but of the role of Democrat right which refuses to pass ENDA when it has a chance of being implemented.

  • Badgerite

    “When will they ever learn?” It doesn’t look like anytime soon.

  • Drew2u

    Can I just retreat into the Pokemonized version of France where the games end with a kind of, “We are the World” song?
    http://www.pokedit.com/images/posts/2013/x-y-karos-map/kalos-region.jpg

  • StraightGrandmother

    In order to prosecute Speech You would have to Amend the Constitution I believe.
    Did the anti Jewish chanting rattle you Bill?
    It rattled me as you are right, ala Michelle Bachman et al, we are accustomed to the Islamaphobia but not shouting for Jews to get out of France.

  • Guest

    I hope NOM is proud of their blood thirsty Neo-Nazi barbarian allies in France.

  • StraightGrandmother

    I think I remember this right, actually there are more US sexual minorities than People who are Jewish.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Usually the European right centers it’s racist attacks on Arabs and muslims and hate crimes against them are common in much of Europe, especially in France (Moroccans, Algerians and Tunisians), England (Pakistanis, people from the Caribbean and Africa) , Germany (Turks) and the Benelux nations.

    The spike in anti-Semitism, the constant din of homohating and the raging fires of Islamophobia all produce violence there and in the US. They’re symptoms of capitalism in decay and crisis. They illuminate the efforts of the right to deflect the anger among working people over unending wars of aggression by the US and spreading economic dislocations by scapegoating minorities and the LGBT communities.

    In the last two years racism and homophobia have exploded in many of the former Soviet republics as they’re been transformed from deformed workers states to capitalist states and a few cases of violence have erupted although nothing like the levels of violence in the US.

    Liberals and reformists have no real clue how to deal with these various bigotries and the passage of the Hate Crimes Act ( Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act) illustrates that. ‘Enhanced’ penalties do nothing to end racism and homophobia unless they’re aimed at those who promote it. In the US homophobia is promoted by racsim rightwing politicians of both parties who pander to rich and the religious bigots like the leaders of the catholic, mormon, and pentecostal cults. Their refusal to do anything real about ENDA or to repeal the rest of Bill Clintons’ DOMA is an example. Racist violence is largely unchecked as illustrated by the Obama regime’s refusal to go after Zimmerman. It wasn’t the government, who ignored dozens of murders in the South in the 1960’s and 1970’s but groups like SPLC that broke the back of the KKK.

    Real hate crimes laws will have to tackle the question of prosecuting hate speech that provokes violence or causes violence with clear prohibitions and robust sentencing along with confiscating the wealth of individuals or groups who promote discrimination, harassment and violence.

  • goulo

    Indeed. Nazism worked out SO well for France during World War 2…

    It never ceases to amaze me that there are neo-Nazis in countries like France and Poland and Russia, given the history of what the Nazis actually did to those countries. It makes me think humanity is irredeemably stupid.

  • HeartlandLiberal

    Here, let me provide a historical translation and parallel: “Juden ‘Raus”.

    Also, in this case, the legitimate a historical reference is “Kristalnacht”.

  • dula

    It was only a matter of time. I’m always surprised when right wing Jews join forces with US neocons in order to promote their agenda of oligarchy and Israeli policy…it will bite them in the ass later.

  • cole3244

    no matter the language or dialect bigotry and hate have the same ugly thing in common regardless of the separation by borders, regions, or states.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Scientology is already outlawed in France.
    The Courts ruled it a sect.

  • StraightGrandmother

    My very reliable (leading gay rights lawyer in France) French Twitter peeps said the Fascist protest a week ago drew 18,000.
    The Catholic Haters, Manif Pour Tous, drew 80,000 yesterday.

    I have always thought the advancement for Equal Civil Rigjts for Sexual Minorities in France is not yet solid. It worries me deeply.

  • Lawerence Collins

    Gee! I’m sure the GOP, it’s “DSSRZS” and Koch whores are so jealous of the French demonstrators! This is what happens when the mental illness of conservatism isn’t kept in check!

  • Cletus

    Giving the Nazi salute, too. Now that’s rich…

  • zerosumgame0005

    Please Daddy Karl, tells us the story about how Hitler was really a secret Lefty again!

  • Indigo

    Homophobia. Antisemitism. They’ll be going after the Jehovah’s Witnesses or Scientologists soon enough and then the 21st century will descend into early 20th century reruns. It’s painfully predictable and serves the interests of . . . whom? That’s the part of this conundrum I haven’t quite decoded, Cui bonum?

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