Recalled!

Simon & Schuster, the publisher of the new book by alleged, and now faux, Benghazi “witness” Dylan Davies, announced this afternoon that they are pulling Davies’ book.

The book, “Embassy House,” was being published by a subsidiary of Simon & Schuster called Threshold Editions.

A spokesperson for the publisher issued the following statement today:

“In light of information that has been brought to our attention since the initial publication of The Embassy House, we have withdrawn from publication and sale all formats of this book, and are recommending that booksellers do the same,” Threshold Edition spokesperson Jennifer Robinson said in a statement. “We also are notifying accounts that they may return the book to us.”

Dylan Davies, who told "60 Minutes," and wrote in his book, that he was at the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya during the attack. He reportedly told the FBI he was not.

Dylan Davies, who told “60 Minutes,” and wrote in his book, that he was at the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya during the September 2012 attack. He reportedly told the FBI he was not.

It’s interesting that Simon & Schuster isn’t clearly asking for the book back, though they are recommending it.  Giving the publishers the option strikes me as a way of letting Threshold Editions still profit off of all the right-wingers who are sure to now buy the book, even though it’s been debunked.  Veracity isn’t much of a deal-killer in Republican book-circles.  Then again, it’s possible the publisher has no power over the bookstores once they’ve received the book.

I’d also be curious if Davies could now take the book and go to a conservative publisher since, again, conservatives would like have little problem publishing a book by a known fabricator.

I’d written two stories with extensive background on this this morning, but in a nutshell, here’s a good summary from my morning story of what we know:

Dylan Davies claims to have been there the night terrorists attacked the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya.  Davies’ account of that evening, and what he calls massive security failures leading up to the attack, were so damning that Republican Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) put a hold on all Obama administration nominations until he gets to the bottom of Davies’ serious allegations.

Then Davies’ story went poof! — and was no more.

Unfortunately for Senator Graham and Davies, Davies’ story imploded last night in the face of a New York Times blockbuster alleging that Davie’s explosive account of events at the US consulate that he gave CBS’ 60 Minutes, and his book publisher, flat-out contradict the story he told federal agents during an FBI interview.

(UPDATE: CBS News has just apologized for airing Davies‘ now-faux version of the events that took place that evening in Benghazi.  60 Minutes’ Lara Logan apologized this morning, saying “we were wrong, we made a mistake” (video and transcript of Logan’s appearance here).)

That means that Davies either misled CBS – and that his new book about Benghazi is a sham – or he misled the FBI.  And for his sake, Davies had better hope he misled CBS and his book publisher, as lying to the FBI will likely land you in jail.

Either way, he appears to have lied to somebody, and Davies’ credibility quickly went down the memory hole last night as CBS yanked its print and video copies of Davies’ “survivor’s tale of Benghazi” off the Internet in the face of the new NYT allegations. CBS also issued a statement saying they were reviewing the entire story in the fact of the new allegations about Davie’s credibility….

Davies, who worked for a private security firm hired to protect the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya, had told his company three days after the attack that he was unable to reach the Benghazi diplomatic compound during the attack.

The Washington Post even got a copy of an incident reportfrom the security firm, in Davies’ own name, confirming that he was not at the compound during the attackThe incident report flat-out contradicts what Davies told 60 Minutes last Sunday, and what he claims in his new “memoir, that he scaled the 12 foot wall of the compound in the middle of the attack and clocked a terrorist with the butt of his rifle.  In fact, the incident report shows he strolled in, and met no resistance, after the battle was over.

Davies also claims that he went to the hospital and saw the charred body of our ambassador – in the incident report, it was someone else who told Davies about the charred body, Davies never saw the body because he was never there.

Of course, GOP Senator Graham isn’t backing off his threaten to force a mini-shutdown of new agency appointees, as Graham is also not one terribly beholden to the truth – nor, generally, are GOP witch hunts.

It really will be interesting to see if conservatives, and their noise-machine at Fox News and Talk radio, distance themselves from Davies or whether they try to resuscitate his now-discredited accusations.

Either way – once burned, twice shy. I suspect the media is going to be all the more suspicious of future Benghazi-truthers as a result of the growing fallout from the Davies disaster.


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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136 Responses to “Recalled!”

  1. Bill_Perdue says:

    Democrats are right wingers who, consciously or not, vote for wars if aggression, austerity and union busting and don’t like having that pointed out. They get personal and nasty but that doesn’t stop others from moving left. The political bankruptcy of Democrats and Republicans and the ongoing severe depression – caused by Democrat Bill Clinton – forces them left.

    “It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it.” Debs repeated that over and over and over. He got jailed for it. I’m lucky, all I have to do is put up with cranky right wingers.

  2. Moderator4 says:

    We are the Borg. Prepare to be assimilated.

  3. FLL says:

    “Besides, you have no way of knowing whether or not we change our numbers on occasion, do you?”

    That’s ideal. I only mentioned it because one of the commenters was mentioned below.

  4. Moderator4 says:

    We will make a suggestion. You swap names with Bill_Perude, and we’ll swap names with each other.
    Besides, you have no way of knowing whether or not we change our numbers on occasion, do you?

  5. karmanot says:

    “—a small bit of chemistry and a smaller bit of classical history and a minuscule bit of other matters.” The mark of an honest gentleman, Your ‘minuscule’ could fill a reservoir, in which I row quite delightedly from thread to thread, time to time. “with some moron who talks during the performance and says the same damn thing every time he does.” Think of it as Opera Buffa and be kind to your anger. :-)

  6. FLL says:

    Just a suggestion if they don’t want anyone stalking them. (See comment below which mentions one of the moderators.)

  7. karmanot says:

    But FLL, Moderators are NOT alien cone heads. :-)

  8. Monoceros Forth says:

    Oh, for crying out loud–you’re no socialist! You’re not proposing socialist ideas! You’re not proposing any ideas at all! You’re just some monotonous idiot who responds to EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN THREAD with some variant of, “Obama and the Democrat [sic] Party suck!” I’m tired of it, mortally tired of it, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who is. Oh, and just in case you haven’t gotten the point yet, no true leftist says “Democrat [sic] Party” even if they despise the Democratic Party. Saying “Democrat” instead of “Democratic” is one of the most reliable right-wing tells I know.

    I’m not wedded to this site. Sometimes I’m vain enough to think I’ve something useful to contribute to its commentary but really, when it comes down to it, I don’t know all that much aside from a small bit of chemistry and a smaller bit of classical history and a minuscule bit of other matters. Still, I can say with all honesty and without vanity, I think I’ve got a lot more to contribute than you, you Johnny-One-Note simpleton. Training myself to endure your pathetic and repetitive contributions to the discussion here is like going to the movies or the opera and learning to deal with some moron who talks during the performance and says the same damn thing every time he does. If there’s any one thing that will compel me to turn my back on Americablog it’s you. I suppose you’d think that was a victory of some sort, you narcissistic schmuck.

    Socialist–yeah, right. You’re a socialist the same way I’m Italian.

  9. Strepsi says:

    @ No One Important This is a liberal gay blog: when I go to a conservative blog I see a lot worse at gay liberals in both the articles and comments (sick, unnatural and worthy of death ore common.)
    In short: “Honey, get down off the cross, we need the wood.”

  10. FLL says:

    Note to the blog: Since I promised the moderators that I wouldn’t engage in off-topic back-and-forth conversations, I suppose I have to define my terms. I will use the garden-variety definition of “off-topic”. When there’s a need to reply to off-topic rhetoric, I’ll leave it up to the moderators.

  11. Buford says:

    The guy actively deceived them. They verified the story to a point, and then issued a correction as soon as they confirmed that they were duped. This was, at worst, an embarrassment… it’s not a firing offense, and it’s nowhere near the type of irresponsible reporting we see on Fox News and CNN on a daily basis.

  12. Bill_Perdue says:

    So to summarize: liberals really, really hate socialists.

    They want to ‘fix’ us, they insist that we refrain from criticizing them and their similarity to their putative opponents in the Republicans party. One wants my head to explode. They claim that our comments are trolling, hijacking and out of order in an obvious attempt to avoid political response.

    Liberals want leftists to soft pedal the socialist alternative to Democrats and Republicans. (I use the term we and our because I and other leftists get the same response on a number of blogs from both Democrats and Republicans. They seem to hate the left with equal vigor.)

    Telling commenter’s not to respond to each other is not a long term solution and neither is having moderators intervene on the side of liberals. In this discussion one of the moderators called me a liar and never repudiated that statement.

    As long as I’m able, and in spite of threats to cut me off, I’ll continue to propose socialist ideas and solutions on any and all comments that concern American politics. As one commenter bluntly threatened, “You’ve a right to speak. But on a blog owned by somebody else, in this case being John A., that right becomes an extended privilege. One which could be rescinded if the owner or his moderators decide otherwise.”

  13. The_Fixer says:

    Well, well. Regarding your indictment of John because of his commentary, I have a sharp difference of opinion with you.

    I find it particularly frustrating when conservative commentors are allowed to call Democrats/liberals any name under the sun, but get all huffy when a Democratic/liberal commentator makes even a mildly snarky comment about a Republican or a conservative. Suddenly, they appeal to civility as soon as they are on the receiving end of justifiable criticism.

    You hear the likes of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck – not to mention the fringier people like Ted Nugent say the damnedest things with no plea for civility from the right wing. Yet when John makes commentary on his blog, the pearl-clutching conservatives are all over it.

    I might note that there were some accusations being tossed about between two or more of the participants in this conflict, but I never saw anything that was as beyond the pale as I’ve seen on other blogs. Hell, this was mild compared to the name-calling I’ve seen on Yahoo!. Then there’s YouTube. You think this is horrible only because John made a few comments concerning conservatives.

    Also note that this is a rarity. Any flame war I’ve witnessed on this site has been started by people who are not regular visitors and are looking for a fight. As the moderator says below, if you’re looking for something different to what this blog has to offer, perhaps it’s best to continue looking.

  14. Moderator4 says:

    You are certainly more than welcome to absent yourself from here and go read other blogs if this one and the opinions of the site-owner offends your sensibilities.
    Our job as Moderators is to attempt to maintain a certain level of discourse among the commenters.

  15. karmanot says:

    Oh for Christ’s sake let it go. Too late, the Turkey has dropped.

  16. Moderator4 says:

    We do have more information than is granted to readers, but not about down-votes. They are as opaque to us as they are to you.

  17. Houndentenor says:

    I will not simmer down. This was a huge dump of fuel on the faux outrage fire over Benghazi. I have no patience for “reporters” who are either too lazy or too happy to suck up to right wingers to make sure that what they report is accurate. If I screwed up this badly at my job, I’d have been fired on the spot. She and her producers should have already been fired. Simmer down? Hell, no.

  18. Indigo says:

    As Julia Child said in that episode where she dropped the turkey, “Oooops!”

  19. FLL says:

    OK, the person removed the “down vote,” which is what I guessed would happen. Wonderful. You’ll have to base your conclusions not on the mysterious “down vote,” but on the tenor of the reply to your statement above.

  20. Buford says:

    Simmer down. CBS corrected the record as soon as the Blue Mountain report confirmed that Davies’ story was BS. This isn’t a case of irresponsible media failing to inform (or active misinforming) the public. At worst, this is a case of CBS running a story with 85% of the info rather than seeking out another 10%, just to be safe.

    The whole Benghazi situation is a GOP ‘faux outrage’ red herring, anyway.

  21. Bill_Perdue says:

    Why would my head explode, I’ve seen McCarthyites in action before. Sigh.

  22. labman57 says:

    Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
    Davies — a self-serving, spotlight-seeking, egomaniacal, ethically-challenged buffoon — will likely be recruited as an “expert analyst” by FOX News in … 3 … 2 … 1 …

  23. Leota2 says:

    What if I said Bill is a teabagger trolling a liberal site—pretending to be a socialist. I swear he is. Its a long hard job he takes seriously because he’s been doing it for a VERY long time.

    Did your head explode yet, Bill?

  24. No One Important says:

    I understand your desire for “civility”. . . however, the article is rife with name calling and caustic remarks that lack any civility from an “author.”.It isn’t unusual to see what is reflected in the author’s opinion then reflected in the tenor of the posts.Maybe if the author doesn’t like people being disrespectful to others, he shouldn’t use phrases like:. . .still profit off of all the right-wingers who are sure to now buy the book. . . . . .Veracity isn’t much of a deal-killer in Republican book-circles”Or:. . . .conservatives would like have little problem publishing a book by a known fabricator.. . . . . as Graham is also not one terribly beholden to the truth – nor, generally, are GOP witch hunts.. . .noise-machine at Fox News and Talk radio. . . .Yes, he’s allowed his opinions, but complaining about uncivil discourse is more than a bit disingenuous on the parts of the moderators/posters here when the author made no effort to hide his own self anointed caustic and sanctimonious critique of all things republican.Maybe John Arvosis should censor himself a little more – or don’t complain when posters on his board behave in the same fashion as he does.Then again, people don’t need to come here to read his articles, either. You can stay at the same low readership. . . . . .(shrug)Jessayin’. . . . .

  25. FLL says:

    It’s 10 am eastern time on Sunday, and I just added an “up vote” for balance. Why would anyone add a “down vote”? WTF?!

  26. The_Fixer says:

    Oh, you are a sly one, Mr. Karmanot :)

  27. Bill_Perdue says:

    I’ll be happy to stay away from FLL. If personal skirmishing stops then I can spend my time on the politics of comparing the Democrats to the Republicans and the US to the Russians, which are the main bones of contention at this site.

  28. Bill_Perdue says:

    I value the website as an opportunity to present the left side of politics before an audience of people moving left away from the old parties. That’s a growing national phenomenon and my goal is to debunk illusions about Democrat politicians.

    Personal skirmishing deflects from that. I always prefer keeping to politics.

  29. GarySFBCN says:

    Moderator, kindly consider how this thread was initially ‘threadjacked’. it is a constant problem. Does anyone thinking person believe that, politically, there is no difference between Elizabeth Warren and Ted Cruz? The ‘my way or no way/all or none’ approach is toxic and tiresome.

  30. Yeah, I’d rather not wade through everything, but all out wars are never fun for anyone. Just try to stay away from each other for a while :) And thanks :)

  31. Moderator4 says:

    Thank you. That is all we ask.

  32. FLL says:

    OK, I won’t engage in more off-topic back-and-forth conversations.

  33. Moderator4 says:

    A message to FLL and Bill_Perdue: we have contacted John about what exactly to do with both of you, since we have never encountered quite this amount of animosity and thread-jacking between two long-time commenters before.
    In the mean-time, until John lets us know what he wants done, we ask you to try to respect what John Aravosis is attempting to accomplish with his blog. If you value this website at all, please consider this.
    Thank you.

  34. Bill_Perdue says:

    I replied to the other denier and said that the 29 million murders of Red Army soldiers and civilians were and did involve slave labor camps. Only a denier of Nazi atrocities would pretend, as you do that the Germans didin’t carry out a vast campaign of war crimes against 28 million Soviet citizens and solders.

    Soviet Union (within 1946-1991 borders)

    Military deaths 9,000,000 to 14,000,000 including the deaths or POWs

    Civilian Deaths 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes

    Total Deaths 22,000,000 to 30,000,000

    That was a far more serious holocaust that any others in spite of deniers. All the documentation is below My comment is clearly not about Soviet POW deaths during the first eight months following the German invasion, it’s about all Soviet deaths,
    military and civilian From June 1941 to May 1945. You can clearly read it in the
    comment he copied ” “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders”

    My data is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    Further, Wiki says far more were killed. Once again FLL lied and presented a shortened version of a Wiki article and pretended he was comparing what I said to the Wiki article. “According to Michael Berenbaum, between two and three million Soviet prisoners-of-war—or around 57 percent of all Soviet POWs—died of starvation, mistreatment, or executions between June 1941 and May 1945, and most of those during their first year of
    captivity. According to other estimates by Daniel Goldhagen, an estimated
    2.8 million Soviet POWs died in eight months in 1941–42,
    with a
    total of 3.5 million by mid-1944″
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Soviet_POWs

    Stop lying

  35. FLL says:

    Below is a screen shot of your comment, Perdue, directly underneath the comment you were replying to. GarySFBCN said that Russians were not targeted for genocide in the way Jews were, and your reply was clearly meant to rebut Gary’s statement, complete with the phrases “mass murder” and “slave labor camps.” No reader would ever have come to the conclusion that you were talking about the total number of Russian fatalities (military and civilian) during WWII. If you had said that 28 million was the total number of Russian deaths during WWII, no one would have replied, least of all me. You play a constant game of deceit. Just look at the screen shot below:

  36. Bill_Perdue says:

    28 million is a figure I got long ago adding the figures from Wiki, which vary all over the place. My citation from Wiki sources was closer to the top end because it was based on recent estimates. You lie is base on nothing.

    Stop lying.

    FLL is lying about Soviet Causalities and my claims about them. As usual.

    Soviet Union (within 1946-1991 borders)

    Military deaths 9,000,000 to 14,000,000 including the deaths or POWS

    Civilian Deaths 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes

    Total Deaths 22,000,000 to 30,000,000

    Many Soviet POWs died in slave labor camps in Germany. Look it up and then stop lying.
    That was a far more serious holocaust that any others in spite of deniers like FLL and the other Democrat. All the documentation is below. My comment is clearly not about Soviet POW deaths during the first eight months following the German invasion, it’s about all Soviet deaths, military and civilian, from June 1941 to May 1945. You can clearly read it in the comment he copied. “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders”

  37. Bill_Perdue says:

    Wiki claims 22 to 30 million civilian deaths. Which is what I agreed with and reported and what you lied about. That’s very clear.

    Stop lying.

    FLL is lying about Soviet Causalities and my claims about them. As usual.

    Soviet Union (within 1946-1991 borders)

    Military deaths 9,000,000 to 14,000,000 including the deaths or POWS

    Civilian Deaths 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes

    Total Deaths 22,000,000 to 30,000,000

    That was a far more serious holocaust that any others in spite of deniers like FLL and the other Democrat. All the documentation is below. My comment is clearly not about Soviet POW deaths during the first eight months following the German invasion, it’s about all Soviet deaths, military and civilian, from June 1941 to May 1945. You can clearly read it in the comment he copied. “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders”

  38. FLL says:

    Wikipedia says 2.8-3.5 million in POW and slave labor camps. You said “mass murder” and specifically mentioned “slave labor camps.” How did you even come up the “28 million” figure. That figure is not found anywhere. Why didn’t you say 25 million or 30 million? Those are much rounder numbers. Why 28 million? It seems a very striking coincidence that Wikipedia mentions 2.8 million POWs killed during the major part of the war on the Eastern front, and then you just happen to pull a figure of 28 million out of your hat. What a strange coincidence. It really looks like you took 28 million and thought that this would be a clever number to use when you’re talking about “mass murder” and “slave labor camps.”

  39. Bill_Perdue says:

    I don’t want to be silenced but as you point out, this discussion board is owned. If it happens too bad, but it won’t silence the left. As Democrats and centrists move right, workers are moving left. You lose in any case.

    Twenty years ago some Democrats were genuine centrists, but now all are rightists.

  40. FLL says:

    “Military deaths of Red Army soldiers in slave labor camps and who were starved to death is mass murder.”

    Yes, what you describe in the sentence above is mass murder, which brings us back to Wikipedia’s accurate figure of 2.8 to 3.5 million deaths in POW and slave labor camps—not the 28 million figure for the entire Russian army and Russian civilian population.

  41. Bill_Perdue says:

    Wiki claims that far more POW’s were killed. Once again FLL lied and presented a shortened version of a Wiki article and pretended he was comparing what I said to the Wiki article. “According to Michael Berenbaum, between two and three million Soviet prisoners-of-war—or around 57 percent of all Soviet POWs—died of starvation, mistreatment, or executions between June 1941 and May 1945, and most of those during their first year of captivity. According to other estimates by Daniel Goldhagen, anestimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs died in eight months in 1941–42, with atotal of 3.5 million by mid-1944”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T

    Let us know when you learn to read.

  42. Bill_Perdue says:

    Military deaths of Red Army soldiers in slave labor camps and who were starved to death is mass murder. Only those who deny Nazi crimes think otherwise. What makes you think that all Nazi crimes are limited to the camps. Read the wiki article, which says that civilian deaths, which various Soviet sources estimate at between 5,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes as part of the figure. The Nazis murdered millions and millions of Soviet citizens. Only those interested in denying Nazi war crimes would want us to omit their crimes against civilians.

  43. FLL says:

    And no one (other than you, when it suits you) refers to military deaths among soldiers as “mass murders.”

  44. Bill_Perdue says:

    Stop lying. I said 28 million Soviet civilians and soldiers died.

  45. Bill_Perdue says:

    Read the screen shot. I said 28 million civilians and soldiers. Read my comment and the screen shot. I did not say 2.8 million POWs, Wiki did and FLL lied and equated what I said with Wikis estimate about POWs. It all seem very clear.

  46. The_Fixer says:

    Yes, I can see that. And apparently, he doesn’t read my comments too well, evidence his response to my second comment.

    I think I’ll bow out now so as not to contribute to this melee.

  47. FLL says:

    Bill’s original sentence from downthread was “28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders, by being starved and in slave labor camps.” Like anyone, I would never think that Bill was including military deaths or civilian deaths outside of POW camps or slave labor camps. Why? Because Bill specifically says “mass murders” and “slave labor camps.” I’m not enough of a mind reader to know when Bill is going to change his story. The total number of dead is between 2.8 million and 3.5 million in POW and slave labor camps. Obviously, the figures for the military and the entire population are higher. But read Bill’s original comment. I think most readers would interpret it the way I did.

  48. Bill_Perdue says:

    Obviously you do get upset when I ask you why you vote for union busting, the racist extra legal murder of Arab and muslim Americans and the betrayal of socialized medicine. You fixate on it and then say “Bill deserves a voice – at the margins of society. He is not deserving of civility.” But you won’t answer the question I posed.

    Why on Earth did you vote for Obama a second time

    After he began busting unions.

    After he escalated wars of aggression.

    After he stalled on ENDA

    After he on endorsed FISA and the Paytriot act and as NDAA was being formulated.

    After he supplied white phosphorus, a WMD to the zionists who used it on the inhabitants of densely populated Gaza.

    After he betrayed socialized medicine.

    Why would anyone vote who’s not a right-winger vote for that?

  49. GarySFBCN says:

    Nothing you write that is directed at me is bothersome. It is when you attack others who don’t know your history that concerns me.

    Everyone should be warned about the ‘weird, mal-adjusted Uncle’ at the Thanksgiving table.

  50. karmanot says:

    Yep, they seem to be having a streak of bad luck lately.

  51. Bill_Perdue says:

    Awwww, You don’t like being told that you’re a right winger because you voted for Obama and think that Romneycare/Obamacare is ‘genius’. Awwww.

  52. karmanot says:

    Excellent report Fixer!

  53. Moderator3 says:

    In one comment, you say 28 million. In this comment you say, 2.8 million. How do you think those are the same? FLL said the 2.8 million was the correct number.

  54. karmanot says:

    I just hope, in spite of everything, that my inner bourgeois can still shop at CostCo. :-)

  55. GarySFBCN says:

    Trying to reason with Bill is a wasted effort. I’ve tried a few times.

    And this thread is about someone who lied regarding the events Benghazi. Somehow in Bill’s mind, that means it is about how the Democrats are no different than the Republicans. As does Daylight Savings Time, puppies and ‘Law and Order’. He sees the connection everywhere.

  56. Bill_Perdue says:

    There’s nothing democratic about the Democrat Party. They just as bad as Republicans and in some cases worse.

  57. FLL says:

    No one calls military deaths “mass murder.” Only you, and only very selectively, when your pushing an agenda. And yes, people who want to deny the Holocaust against those in Nazi death camps regularly claim that it was no big deal compared to military deaths. The difference, at least to most people, is that military deaths are not the result of unarmed civilians being rounded up and put into gas chambers.

  58. Bill_Perdue says:

    Stop lying. the murders of civilians and Red Army solders were mass murders.

    I didn’t falsify and figures, you did. You didn’t guess you just lied.

    I accused you of being a holocaust denier, not the blog. Do stop lying.

    I should be including the million civilian deaths, which various Soviet sources estimate at between 5,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes as part of the figure. The Nazis murdered millions and millions of Soviet citizens. Only those interested in denying Nazi war crimes would want us to omit their crimes against civilians.

  59. The_Fixer says:

    Well, that was a noble experiment of mine that apparently went wrong.

    Let me correct you: It’s the Democratic party by name. I know what your response to that is, I saw it above, don’t bother.

    I think you didn’t thoroughly read what I said above. I did not say that the “Democrat party is owned by the rich” I said:

    However, your assertion that the current Democratic party being the same as the Republican party isn’t 100% accurate. They both do bow to
    corporate cash, but at least we have more than a snowball’s chance in
    hell of influencing Democratic officeholders.

    See the difference? I said both “bow to corporate cash”. Which means Democrats and Republicans.

    Sorry, but your comments on this story only have a tangential connection to the topic at hand. You seem to be the only one here who thinks there’s a solid linkage.

    In your last paragraph, you veer off again. I think I’ll just move on here, there’s no benefit to continuing this discussion with you.

  60. GarySFBCN says:

    Let me take it a step further: One of my biggest gripes is that the supposed ‘good Christians’ do not distance themselves nor cry out against the hypocritical and vile supposed ‘false Christians.’

    It is the same here will Bill and blogs – we don’t distance ourselves nor cry out against him. ANYONE who does not march in ‘lockstep’ with his ideology is labeled as being enemy; anyone who voted against Romney labeled as being a supporter of bombing children, hates poor people, is a capitalist pig, etc. This should not be tolerated. Actually, is is harmful to leftist politics. Sometimes I think he is really a right-wing plant.

    Bill deserves a voice – at the margins of society. He is not deserving of civility.

  61. Bill_Perdue says:

    Democrats and Republicans are basically one party and criticism of one has to include criticism of the other or else it’s merely another example of partisan bickering between the tow and that bickering is totally unimportant.

    You may be happy with politics in this country but millions are not. They’ve noted that Republicans and conservatives are incapable of changing either their parties or society. If your mind is closed to change don’t read about it.

    The key words in creating change are socialism, a workers state and the
    role of workers. Democrats and liberals and No other social class or group has the capacity to change society fundamentally or as many compelling
    reasons to do so. The right wing, Democrats and Republicans, and their
    ally/accomplices in the cults, especially the highly political roman catholic, mormon and baptist cults, are all used as props for the degenerate culture of the rich. The ‘culture’ of the rich is a sewer of bigotries, a wasteland of imposed austerity, mass unemployment, low wages, disappearing unions, illuminated by regular rampages of mass murder on top of a huge murder rate, a crippling lack of educational opportunities and a government that promotes a dog eat dog mentality with deregulation and unending wars of aggression.

    Right wing does not mean Republican, it means Republican and Democrat and it means any politician, administrator or judge who refuses to fight to dismantle the regime of the rich. Only one – Sanders – does that and even his program is reformist and tepid. Whatever good work he does is effectively undone because he consorts with the Democrats. Sanders is a reformist and the age of reforms, from Social Security through the Voting Rights Act and Medicare, is over. This is the age of taking away reforms and in that campaign Democrats are taking the lead, constantly trying to outflank the Republicans from the right.

    Our central task is to rebuild unions, toss out the old, Democrat-dependent union misleaders and build the union left. Then we can build
    workers parties who’ll drive the engine of revolutionary change and build a
    workers state. Only a workers state can muzzle and jail class war criminals, those responsible for wars of aggression, mass murder and other war crimes, or those who promote the violence of racism, misogyny, environmental criminals, immigrant bashing or the bigotry of the cults.

  62. FLL says:

    You called it mass murder, which is why I think you falsified the figure. Between 2.8 million and 3.5 million Russian POWs died during the entire war. You stated that it was 28 million, and most people would guess that you took the “2.8 million” figure and moved the decimal. When you talk about mass murder, you should not be including deaths outside of those POW and slave labor camps. What you should be saying is what Wikipedia is saying, which is a figure between 2.8 million and 3.5 million.

    Also, in reference to your comment: “That was a far more serious holocaust that any others…” I really wouldn’t go there if I were you. I don’t think any of the bloggers or moderators are keen on seeing Americablog being referenced as a Holocaust denial site.

  63. Bill_Perdue says:

    No answer?

  64. Bill_Perdue says:

    I’m having no trouble at all with Disquis. FLL has no point at all. FLL is lying about Soviet Causalities and my claims about them. As usual. My comment was about Soviet soldiers and civilians. I would hope that you have the integrity to admit that I did not do what FLL lied and claimed I did.

    Here’s the rea data from Wiki

    Soviet Union (within 1946-1991 borders)

    Military deaths 9,000,000 to 14,000,000 including the deaths or POWS

    Civilian Deaths 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes

    Total Deaths 22,000,000 to 30,000,000

    That was a far more serious holocaust that any others in spite of deniers like FLL and the other Democrat. All the documentation is below. My comment is clearly not about Soviet POW deaths during the first eight months following the German invasion, it’s about all Soviet civilian and military deaths from from June 1941 to May 1945. You can clearly read it in the comment he copied. “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders”

    My data is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W

    Further, Wiki says far more POW’s were killed. Once again FLL lied and presented a shortened version of a Wiki article and pretended he was comparing what I said to the Wiki article. “According to Michael Berenbaum, between two and three million Soviet prisoners-of-war—or around 57 percent of all Soviet POWs—died of starvation, mistreatment, or executions between June 1941 and May 1945, and most of those during their first year of captivity. According to other estimates by Daniel Goldhagen, anestimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs died in eight months in 1941–42, with a total of 3.5 million by mid-1944” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T

  65. Bill_Perdue says:

    Stop lying. M

    FLL is lying about Soviet Causalities and my claims about them. As usual.

    Soviet Union (within 1946-1991 borders)

    Military deaths 9,000,000 to 14,000,000 including the deaths or POWS

    Civilian Deaths 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 due to military action and war crimes

    Total Deaths 22,000,000 to 30,000,000

    That was a far more serious holocaust that any others in spite of deniers like FLL and the other Democrat. All the documentation is below. My comment is clearly not about Soviet POW deaths during the first eight months following the German invasion, it’s about all Soviet deaths military and civilian From June 1941 to May 1945. You can clearly read it in the comment he copied. “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders”

    My data is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    Further, Wiki says far more POW’s were killed. Once again FLL lied and presented a shortened version of a Wiki article and pretended he was comparing what I said to the Wiki article. “According to Michael Berenbaum, between two and three million Soviet prisoners-of-war—or around 57 percent of all Soviet POWs—died of starvation, mistreatment, or executions between June 1941 and May 1945, and most of those during their first year of captivity. According to other estimates by Daniel Goldhagen, an estimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs died in eight months in 1941–42, with a
    total of 3.5 million by mid-1944″
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Soviet_POWs

  66. BeccaM says:

    You’ve a right to speak. But on a blog owned by somebody else, in this case being John A., that right becomes an extended privilege. One which could be rescinded if the owner or his moderators decide otherwise.

  67. BeccaM says:

    Timely and appropriate criticism of the Democratic Party and its behavior never bothers me. You have to know by now that I gladly join in when it’s deserved.

    You, on the other hand, seem to want to take every single frickin’ post put up that’s the least bit critical of the Tea Baggers and the Wingnut Republicans and their radicalized base, and use their own pejorative ‘DemocRAT Party’ label to try to turn the thread’s entire discussion about your jeremiad that the entire United States government needs to be overthrown and an improbable anti-capitalist worker’s paradise instituted. Somehow.

    Guys like you were just as counterproductive and destructive to the progressive/liberal movement in the 60s and early 70s as you yourself are now. Have you made a single constructive suggestion? Anything positive to offer? No — from you it’s nothing but unrelenting negativity, hopelessness, and calls for socialist revolution.

    The part I find fascinating is how your commenting seems to follow the same pattern every time: Republicans and the Democrat Party are both monsters. And here’s how the Democrats are even worse monsters than the Republicans. And here are some of the same links from dozens of times before. Death to capitalist running dogs and all hail Chairman Mao. (Okay, I made up that last part. I couldn’t resist.)

    Apparently you just don’t get what the term ‘thread-jacking’ means.This post is about the debunked Benghazi story. The discussion in the comments is about that. Yet in this thread and in all the others that are critical of the GOP and the far right, you ALWAYS jump in with an unrelated slam against the Dems. Often with the same damned pictures and links.

    Let me make something clear here: While I do write posts, I am not a moderator. I have zero ability to get you banned or anything like that. But I’m still going to express my annoyance that nobody can say anything negative about the Republicans and their anti-American sedition without you jumping in with more anti-Dem rhetoric.

    I mostly don’t give a damn. If Disqus had an “ignore this user” option, I’d have long since used it for your comments. But y’know, you might want to consider how many of your comments have generated supportive agreement with your points, and how many are essentially, “Oh fercrissake, not this guy again.”

    You’re not persuading. You’re annoying. Annoying doesn’t win allies or agreement.

    If center-left non-radical political discourse isn’t your cup of tea, maybe AmercaBlog isn’t for you. Unless you get off on people being pissed at you, which I suppose is also possible. I’ve met more than a few folks in my lifetime who actually feed off negative attention.

  68. Bill_Perdue says:

    Complain to HRW. NBC was aware of the progress of the Russian bigot law as
    early as 2006: “Human Rights Watch (HRW) notes that before Sochi was
    chosen for the 2014 games, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and other
    stakeholders, including American multinational sponsors of the Winter
    Olympics, as well as NBC Universal, which has the broadcast contract, carefully
    tracked the path of the legislation… .” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/how-olympic-sponsors-and_b_3731878.html

    Other people and other Democrats are for ENDA, but not when it has a chance of becoming a law. Then Democrat politicians ignore it and Democrat voters go along with it.

  69. Moderator3 says:

    You have a valid point. Unfortunately, it seems that DISQUS may be having one of it’s regular breakdowns. I can’t seem to help out. However, I would hope that Bill has that integrity to correct his mistake.

  70. Bill_Perdue says:

    “but at least we have more than a snowball’s chance in hell of influencing Democratic officeholders. Evidence Obama’s turnaround on marriage equality.” That’s where you’re wrong. The Democrat Party is, as you say, owned by the rich. The only way to make improvements is to end the power of the rich, expropriate their wealth and force them make productive contributions to society.

    My comments have a connection to the topic at hand, which is usually the lack of differences between the Democrats and Republicans or the similarities between the anti-LGBT campaigns in the US and the RF. I understand that Democrats don’t like them and that some, like FLL, want them stopped.

    When I hear Democrats begin to call for the investigation of the war crimes of the Bushes, Clintons and Obama then I’ll give them some credit and the same will occur if I hear Democrats denounce Obama’s extra-legal racist murders of US citizens and other muslims from Libya to Pakistan.

  71. The_Fixer says:

    Bill, I’ve been reading your commentary for quite a while now, and have a few thoughts.

    Yes, I am a leftist, too. I consider myself an old-school type of Democrat. The current crop does not thrill me. However, your assertion that the current Democratic party being the same as the Republican party isn’t 100% accurate. They both do bow to corporate cash, but at least we have more than a snowball’s chance in hell of influencing Democratic officeholders. Evidence Obama’s turnaround on marriage equality. Between public pressure and financial pressure (the threat of closing the GayTM), Democratic politicians listened. We’ve made some progress with marriage equality. We haven’t achieved perfection, but anyone who expects that is kidding themselves.

    Which brings up my next point: Your rigid adherence to a socialist ideology. I have no problem with this country adopting some socialist policies. And I think a lot of the people here are of the same mind. But an exclusively socialist government hasn’t worked out for the best in a lot of countries. The closest any government has come to pure socialism seems to be the Russians, and the inherent corruption within that society doomed that experiment. Please don’t confuse that with an endorsement of pure capitalism – that is what we have now, and it’s clearly not working.

    Please don’t express the opinion that I am an enabler or am tacitly endorsing the many sins of Obama and others in the government. That is likely to induce a sharp rebuke from me. One can find agreement with some of his policies, and sharp disagreement with other of his policies. The alternative in the last election? Not so much.

    But I hope you take this to heart: Your comments often have such a tenuous connection to the topic at hand and contain such strong rhetoric that after a while, my eyes glaze over, I lose interest and move on to the next comment without completely reading yours. Kind of like “the boy who cried wolf”, your message gets lost on me. I presume others feel the same way, if I’m reading their comments correctly. I don’t want you to stop commenting, even if I don’t completely agree with your comments, I feel that there can be value in them.

    I just ask that you more carefully consider how you construct them. Voices like yours can only be heard if your comments are read. They’re only read if you make a comment that people want to read.

  72. FLL says:

    This is a screen shot of a real no-no: moving the decimal point when talking about the numbers of WWII dead. Don’t do it:

  73. FLL says:

            Don’t Move the Decimal Point!

    Never in my wildest dreams did I think that this thread would degenerate into Holocaust denial, but it has, and if these comment pages continue on that course, Americablog will pop up in Google when people search for “Holocaust denial.” Do I have everyone’s attention? When Holocaust deniers want to make it seem like the Nazi extermination of Jews, Gypsies, et al in concentration camps was “exaggerated” or “no big deal,” they inflate the numbers of WWII dead in other circumstances. The Nazis deliberately caused the deaths of Soviet prisoners of war, a clear case of mass murder. This is from the summary in the Wikipedia article (link here):

    “The most deaths took place between June 1941 and January 1942, when the Germans killed an estimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs primarily through starvation,[9] exposure, and summary execution…”

    What Bill Perdue has done in his reply below is move the decimal point. From Bill’s reply:

    “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders, by being starved and in slave labor camps. Denying that is denying history.”

    Another example of this is the firebombing of Dresden, Germany, in which about 25,000 civilians were killed, which could certainly be viewed as mass murder on the part of the British and other Allies. David Irving, a prominent Holocaust denier, has consistently relied on a forged document in which an extra “0” was added to make it look like the total number of dead was 250,000. David Irving has long been discredited as a legitimate historian. Americablog moderators, I ask you: Do you want these comment pages to pop up in Google when people search for “Holocaust denial?” If you need it, I can supply you with the source material for all of this.

    Let’s say that some commenter wanted to make everyone who persecutes gay people look good. That would certainly include the present Russian regime. Formulate your argument however you want, but don’t degenerate into Holocaust denial. My request is simple: Don’t move the decimal point. Thank you, in advance.

  74. Bill_Perdue says:

    Communist?. But FLL says I’m a Republican.

    Both of you Democrats are dead wrong – I’m a revolutionary socialist and a leftist, a type of politics that Democrats and centrists will never be able to grasp. I’m left, you’re Democrats, aka, rightists.

  75. GarySFBCN says:

    He must protect Communist ideology. Never mind that in the history of the world, there has never been a Communist country without extreme human rights abuses nor the right to criticize the government,

    Not that the US capitalist system is much better. There are better options, but lying to protect an ideology is a barrier to progress.

  76. FLL says:

    Yes, I was wondering about that. 28 Russians were mass murdered? Wouldn’t that dwarf the Holocaust? There is a difference between two countries at war with each other and people being poisoned with Zyklon-B in gas chambers. Has this thread now veered into Holocaust denial? What a fun, interesting Saturday afternoon this is turning out to be.

  77. Bill_Perdue says:

    Democrats are people who repeatedly voted for Obama.

  78. GarySFBCN says:

    “Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis.” Hello? They were at war.

    Not so with the Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, gays…

    Big difference – in the minds of reasonable people.

  79. GarySFBCN says:

    Lies again. I have not been a Democrat since the 1980s.

    But I”m sure you will justify your lies with some wild rationalization.

  80. Bill_Perdue says:

    Personal attacks, no politics. Very Democrat, very undemocratic. Thanks for admitting it.

  81. FLL says:

    Sorry if I didn’t address every single point that you’re asking about. I’ll address those points again. I think we all know you too well by now. You’d prefer Fox News to provide coverage, hence your constant flames against NBC. Not too hard to figure out. (That’s just as obvious to me now as it was when I wrote it the first time.)

    Let me continue. So what are you really after? Something that makes people suffer, of course. A Tea Party Republican victory. You make it so obvious every
    time you gloat about right-wing Republican victories—and might I add, every time you ask people on this blog not to vote. (Yes, your comment history reveals that your fine with Republican victories, and you throw a temper tantrum when there are Democratic victories.) My past comments are just as true today as they were when I first wrote them. What am I afraid of? Nothing in particular.

  82. Bill_Perdue says:

    What’s not amusing is pretending that I’m denying anything. I said “The topic of all politically related posts about the US is about Democrats and Republicans just as the topic of all anti-gay actions in Russia is about the same anti-gay rampages in the in the US.” That’s true. The antigay campaigns in both countries are administered by right wing parties to deflect criticisms from bankster and gangster capitalists with the aid of cults. Denial of that is denial of reality.

    When will you explain your anti-democratic personal attacks like this one: ” “I think we all know you too well by now. You’d prefer Fox News to provide coverage, hence your constant flames against NBC. Not too hard to figure out.” (1) and “So what are you really after? Something that makes people suffer, of course. A Tea Party Republican victory. You make it so obvious every time you gloat about right-wing Republican victories.”

    (1) http://aravosis.wpengine.com/2013/08…”

    What are you afraid of.

  83. FLL says:

    “You Democrats?” All name calling, no substantive argument. And by the way, how does any of that invalidate my criticism of your complete silence whenever Fox News or Republicans run their scams. The only thing we ever hear is the cut-and-paste disclaimer:

    “Democrats are the enemy. Republicans are the enemy.”

    Do you really think people are fooled by your childish disclaimers?

  84. FLL says:

    Well, that’s amusing. You’re trying to squirm your way out of what you posted on this thread. Just go back to your quote, which I repeated above, from this thread: :”all anti-gay actions in Russia is about the same anti-gay rampages in the in the US.”

  85. Bill_Perdue says:

    I thought you Democrats were proud of your support for Obama.

    What’s this then? “”I think we all know you too well by now. You’d prefer Fox News to provide coverage, hence your constant flames against NBC. Not too hard to figure out.” (1) and “So what are you really after? Something that makes people suffer, of course. A Tea Party Republican victory. You make it so obvious every time you gloat about right-wing Republican victories.”

    (1) http://aravosis.wpengine.com/2013/08

  86. Bill_Perdue says:

    Anti gay rampages in the US and the RF have similar causes and similar outcomes, although the violence is worse in the US.

    Anti gay hate crimes in Russia are due to the joint policies of the government, the new gangster capitalist class and the cults. Those are the same groups and the same class who promote anti-LGBT hated in the US.

  87. FLL says:

    “Another Democrat heard from.”

    Name calling is not a substitute for persuasive argument.

  88. FLL says:

    From your reply:

    “That’s a lie…This is typical of my comments about the Putin Regime.”

    I’m referring to your reply on this thread:

    “The topic of all politically related posts about the US is about Democrats and Republicans just as the topic of all anti-gay actions in Russia is about the same anti-gay rampages in the in the US.</blockquote

  89. Bill_Perdue says:

    Another Democrat heard from.

    Soviet citizens and soldiers were targeted by the Nazis. Roughly 28 million of them were slaughtered in mass murders, by being starved and in slave labor camps. Denying that is denying history.

  90. GarySFBCN says:

    Yes, just as his constant rant that the Russians were victims of the Nazis. It is true More Russian were killed in battle. But they were not targeted for genocide as were Jews, Gypsies, Gays, etc. It is abhorrent that he chooses to ‘cleanse’ the truth to fit his Communist ideology. He is no better than those who he despises.

  91. Bill_Perdue says:

    “What is not welcome is stating that the Russian authorities are not responsible for their crimes. ” That’s a lie.

    This is typical of my comments about the Putin Regime. “Putin’s party, United Russia has a tenuous hold on public support in Russia because, like the government here, it serves the new gangster capitalist class and panders to the religious right.

    Like the Democrats and Republicans United Russia and it’s allies have attacked the standard of living of Russian workers to increase the wealth of the super rich and the remnants of the Stalinist bureaucracy with measures that include:

    – the abolition of the progressive income tax;

    – enactment in the Duma of a labour code that restores the labour relations of a century ago, including a lack of rights for workers, and omnipotence for business and the bureaucracy;

    – introduced an antisocial package of laws that replace social benefits with minuscule financial compensation,

    – and are preparing acts to privatize education, depriving Russian workers of their Soviet era universal access to an education. http://links.org.au/node/8

    These and other right wing policies by United Russia are creating the conditions for a massive push-back by unions and the left. http://links.org.au/node/3280

    What happened in Madison and Cairo, Athens and Madrid is going to happen in Russia. Its only a matter of time before the Putin regimes hamfisted, pigheaded promotion of profit gouging by the rich creates a mass movement aimed at burying United Russia and restoring a workers state. As that happens our communities in Russia will have enormous opportunities to form powerful alliances and participate in the fight to bury the Putin regime.” http://www.towleroad.com/2013/09/putinberlusconi.html

    Similar comments have appeared here, at JMG, Bilerico and a number of left wing blogs. My record is very clear as is your record of saying that Democrats are preferable to Republicans. They are not, they’re the same.

  92. FLL says:

    Your contribution of news about hate crimes in the United States, such as the item in your comment above, is always welcome. What is not welcome is stating that the Russian authorities are not responsible for their crimes. If you want to report on hate crimes in the U.S., that fine. Telling people that anyone other than the Russian authorities is responsible for hate crimes in Russia is trolling. And by the way, civilized countries, such as most Western countries, have the decency to keep track of LGBT hate crimes. The Russian government doesn’t keep track of LGBT hate crimes because they couldn’t give a rats ass about them. Are you so dense that you can’t see the difference between the two?

    One more thing. Take a look at your own comment: “Suspect Charged in Adult Court with Hate Crime.” That is exactly the point that you are missing. In the United States, the suspect is being charged. In Russia, the authorities look the other way. Are you telling me that you honestly don’t understand the difference?

  93. Bill_Perdue says:

    Threadjacking is a term for “I want to stop you from commenting.” It’s your contribution to anti-democratic norms.

    Any attempt to exonerate the Obama Regime by saying that the same awful conditions don’t exist in both the RF and the US is not true. The level of violence, at least reported violence, is much worse here. On Wednesday of this week a young agendered person was lit on fire by an admitted homophobe in Oakland. “An online fundraising effort to help pay for the surgeries required to heal Berkeley high school senior Sasha Fleischman, who self-identifies using the term “agender,” topped $21,000 in about a day. Fleischman’s skirt was set on fire as the teen slept on an AC Transit bus in Oakland on Monday evening. UPDATE: Suspect Charged in Adult Court with Hate Crime On Wednesday, the 18-year-old underwent surgery on his legs at St. Francis Memorial Hospital’s burn unit in San Francisco, according to the “Helping Sasha Have a Speedy Recovery” page, which adds he’ll require “several surgeries.” http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Donations-Pour-in-for-Luke-Sasha-Fleischman-Agender-Teen-Set-on-Fire-on-AC-Transit-Bus-230855221.html

  94. Bill_Perdue says:

    A threat to do what. Exercise my right to speak? You’ve been against that since your first post about me. “I think we all know you too well by now. You’d prefer Fox News to provide coverage, hence your constant flames against NBC. Not too hard to figure out.” (1) and “So what are you really after? Something that makes people suffer, of course. A Tea Party Republican victory. You make it so obvious every time you gloat about right-wing Republican victories.”

    (1) http://aravosis.wpengine.com/2013/08

  95. Bill_Perdue says:

    How so? It’s a statement that I stand by my beliefs.

  96. Bill_Perdue says:

    I’s a bit late to pretend you’re being even handed FLL. Or that you’re a critic of Obama. When have you ever criticized his union busting, the torture of Chelsea Manning or teh extra-legal racist murders of US citizens.

    You and others regularly pretend that Democrats are preferable to Republicans.

    You constantly state that I’m a Republican being mean to Democrats and what’s really clear in your comment history is your preference for Democrats.

    “I think we all know you too well by now. You’d prefer Fox News to provide coverage, hence your constant flames against NBC. Not too hard to figure out.” (1) and “So what are you really after? Something that makes people suffer, of course. A Tea Party Republican victory. You make it so obvious every time you gloat about right-wing Republican victories.”

    (1) http://aravosis.wpengine.com/2013/08/unsafe-russian-olympics-2014-sochi.html

  97. Moderator3 says:

    Yes, it is.

  98. FLL says:

    From your reply:

    “As information, your consensus should include the fact that I will not stop…”

    Bill, that’s not a persuasive argument. That’s a threat. Just sayin’.

  99. FLL says:

    From a comment downthread:

    The topic of all politically related posts about the US is about Democrats and Republicans just as the topic of all anti-gay actions in Russia is about the same anti-gay rampages in the in the US.

    Yes, that is threadjacking. This is an example of a commenter taking the blogger’s post away from him and redefining the topic to suit the commenter. I would suggest that the commenter become a blogger himself and submit his own blog posts. The attempt to exonerate the current Putin regime and shift all blame for “anti-gay actions in Russia” onto the United States is particularly ugly.

  100. Bill_Perdue says:

    My thinking is original and based on a leftist analysis which is why it’s always critical of Democrats and those who vote for their union busting, pigheaded refusal to sign an ENDA EO. the torture of Chelsea Manning, the racist extra-legal murders of Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi and Jude Mohammed.

    The topic of all politically related posts about the US is about Democrats and Republicans just as the topic of all anti-gay actions in Russia is about the same anti-gay rampages in the in the US.

  101. FLL says:

    To be fair, Bill, this blog has a long history of sharply criticizing the Obama administration. That criticism was particularly sharp during the years 2009, 2010 and 2011. Both Becca and I have been very pointed in our criticism of Obama and congressional Democrats during that time period, and you can see that in our comment histories. I’m not asking you to limit your comments to opposition to Republicans, and I would be surprised if Becca did either. Call them as you see them.

  102. Bill_Perdue says:

    As information, your consensus should include the fact that I will not stop criticizing Democrats as someone to the left of those who think, mistakenly, that Democrat politicians are somehow ever preferable to Republican politicians. Both are rotten.

  103. Bill_Perdue says:

    I refer to the Democrat because it’s anti-democratic in it’s cooperation with the other party of the rich to create a police state. I refer to you as anti-democrtic because you constantly try to shut off discussion by those to the left of you.

  104. FLL says:

    Thank you for your courtesy, but as I said above, I’m only asking for the freedom to discuss spam (very occasionally, and only when it’s really warranted) using my own definition of the word.

  105. Moderator3 says:

    The moderators have different opinions on spam. We have to arrive at a consensus. Your definition is included in the discussions.

  106. FLL says:

    Bill Perdue’s analysis:

    “This thread is clearly about differences between Democrats and Republicans and those are unimportant.”

    This, of course, is in reference to a post which is “clearly” about a journalistic source being discredited. In response, I have to use my own definition of the word “spam,” which differs from the definition that the Americablog moderators use. The moderators will only label something “spam” if it is an exact copy, posted multiple times. Although I’m not complaining about the moderators’ definition of spam, I’ll still use my own, which includes Bill Perdue’s replies on this thread. Those replies are spam, in my opinion, because they are simply cut-and-paste chunks (often loaded with cut-and-paste graphics) which are drawn from a large reservoir of material that pertains to two topics: why the “Democrat” Party (aka the Democratic Party) and the Republican Party are the same party with the same positions, and why no one should vote. These types of posts further qualify as spam, in my own opinion, because they appear on any and all politically related threads, regardless of the topic. I’ll stand my ground regarding my definition of the word “spam.”

  107. ArthurH says:

    And let’s not forget Regnery Publishing Inc., formerly the Henry Regnery Co. That firm publishes nothing but poorly-vetted right-wing books. It gets by with bulk sales to right-wing business owners who hand them out to employees as a must-read. As most of these books are too thin to make good doorstops, employees either direct them to recycling or offer them for 25 cents at garage sales.

  108. Bill_Perdue says:

    This thread is clearly about differences between Democrats and Republicans and those are unimportant. They’re two parties with one face when it comes to wars of aggression. Criticism of both of them is in order in any discussion about Libya and the attacks on Americans and other oil imperialists.

    I’m sorry if criticism of the Democrat Party line upsets you but I’m a leftist and my comments come from a perspective that says that the attack on Libya by the Democrat Obama and his NATO partners was an act of blatant oil imperialism. That’s the most important thing to point out in a discussion of how Republicans lie about Democrats and vice versa.

    Being a leftist means opposing the empire building of both parties. I plan on continuing to do that, however unpopular it is with those who want to limit discussion to opposition to Republicans by calling it hijacking. It’s not, it’s the injection of an anti-Democrat perspective.

  109. Monoceros Forth says:

    Someone says the obvious thing.

  110. Leota2 says:

    True. And thanks.

  111. pappyvet says:

    The rush to be first especially with a possible scandal has overwhelming influence over due diligence. Sell ! Sell ! Sell ! seems to trump Truth every time.

    Plus I believe that mainstream media in many many instances are so afraid of the influence of the rightwing as well as their own top brass that the idea of “being fair” has become far over weighted. If a wingnut were to call me a gay prone to molestation and a socialist who hates his country and should be sent overseas to be used as a human shield , and I say his dog is ugly ,many mainstream media reporters would try to portray both sentiments as being equal. The paranoia created by the rightwing is palpable. Put that in a shaker with the feverish desire to be first and you have modern journalism in many outlets.

  112. BeccaM says:

    It’s funny, almost: Not that long ago, we finished watching the finale for ‘The Newsroom’ — the Sorkin HBO show about a network that’s supposed to stand in for CNN.

    Much of the season had to do with the fallout resulting from a false news story. One that should never have been run, but was put on the air anyway. It turned out they truly had done everything in their power to try to get the story right, but were thwarted by one man’s corrupted agenda.

    Somehow I seriously doubt anything of the sort ever went on at 60 Minutes, in terms of care, diligence, or self-introspection. “Here’s a guy with a blockbuster book and an account that completely contradicts the Administration!” “Great! Let’s roll with it.” “Aren’t we going to see if his story is credible?” “Nah, if it was good enough for the right-wing publisher, it’s good enough for us.”

  113. Houndentenor says:

    Yes, but the time they should have mattered was before their aired the bloody story. Everyone involved should have already been fired. and discredited. Of course from a news media that never accepted the blame for reporting the lies about wmd’s to hold itself accountable is unreasonable. Facts only matter to the modern media after they are busted. They ought to be of primary importance.

  114. FauxReal says:

    From a report of the 60 Minutes mea culpa:

    “One regret about the report: Logan and her boss CBS News chairman and “60 Minutes” EP Jeff Fager say they should have revealed that Davies’ book, “The Embassy House” was published by Threshold Editions, part of the Simon and Schuster unit of CBS Corp.

    “Honestly, it never factored into the story. It was a mistake; we should have done it, precisely because there’s nothing to hide. It was an oversight.”

    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/lara-logan-defends-60-minutes-benghazi-report-admits-cbs-tie-should-have-revealed_b202454

    and from a CBS report:

    “60 Minutes” has already acknowledged it was a mistake not to disclose that a book Davies co-wrote about the attack was being published by Simon & Schuster, which is a CBS company. On Friday afternoon, Threshold Editions, the imprint under which the book was published, announced that it has withdrawn the book from publication and sale.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57611453/60-minutes-issues-apology-about-benghazi-report/

  115. BeccaM says:

    Cool. I’ll check it out on my Galaxy Note 10.1 and let you know if I see anything hinky.

  116. BeccaM says:

    No, but some of us are tiring of the constant thread-jacking.

  117. GoneRouge says:

    by “he” do you mean the guy who lied and wrote the book? he’s a brit .. a militia guy.. clearly out for fame and fortune on this story.. as far as we know, it wasn’t politically motivated.. unless later something comes out that he was paid by America’s rw talking heads to blow this benghazi tragedy into something more than it was..

  118. Dave of the Jungle says:

    It’s almost like facts matter.

  119. GoneRouge says:

    hmmm …. i didn’t watch the interview.. IF THIS IS TRUE… it needs to be spread through the internet.. it would be devastatingly unethical for 60 Minutes to air that interview and not disclose the connection… I’m now curious if or if not this was disclosed in that interview…

  120. MoonDragon says:

    He’s a stain on America’s undies.

  121. GoneRouge says:

    oops wrong thread

  122. MoonDragon says:

    The market has decided.

  123. GoneRouge says:

    You write “I’d also be curious if Davies could now take the book and go to a conservative publisher ….”

    HUH ???????

    THE BOOK WAS PUBLISHED BY A RIGHTWING PUBLISHER!
    It was published by Threshold, which is a RW arm of Simon and Schuster.. they publish all the wacko RW books like Beck, Palin, Mark Levin, Hannity, etc..

  124. Anonymous says:

    They’ll completely ignore the issue, throwing out another smokescreen.

  125. bkmn says:

    This revelation is not part of the Republican bubble, so it can not penetrate the Republican bubble.

  126. FauxReal says:

    Threshold publishing is part of Simon & Schuster and Simon & Schuster is part of CBS. Nice little tie-in to boost book sales that 60 Minutes didn’t disclose.

  127. Mighty says:

    I wonder if he was a “Loyal Bushie” hold over.

  128. Oh that’s hers, I forgot about that. Wow, big embarrassment for her.

  129. Bill_Perdue says:

    Geritol?

  130. Leota2 says:

    Threshold is the conservative imprint at S&S. Mary Maitlin heads it, I believe. But I think you’re correct that another wingnut publishing imprint—-like Rupert’s bagger imprint at HarperCollins might make room for it.

  131. Bill_Perdue says:

    Democrats, a right wing party moving right, lie about Republicans, a right wing party moving right, and vice versa.

  132. Off topic: FYI, we have a mobile site, finally, again. If you use a phone or an ipad type thing to read the site you should see the mobile version (though now I’m not 100% sure if it doesn’t work with some brands of phones, just not sure). Anyway, I’ll be posting a post on this in a bit, but it was a necessity as 33% of our traffic is now on mobile phones or tablets. And there were a lot of options, and this was the best – trust me. Anyway, it will take a second to figure out how to use it, as it’s new. But a lot of sites are using a similar mobile configuration, and it should make the site MUCH easier to surf and load on phones and tablets both (unless you’re on wifi). So hopefully you’ll all approve :) Again, just use your phone or tablet and you should automatically be directed there. And again, it will take you a bit to figure out whether to swipe up, down, left or right, but you’ll get the hang of it. Commenting will still take place on the main site, so it will take you there if you want to comment – so far there’s no way around that.

  133. basenjilover says:

    Faux News and its ilk are doubling down. Betcha after this week end they magically will come up or invent something . Once again, Miz Lindsey and traditional media will buy hook, line and sinker.

  134. samiinh says:

    Lindsey Graham is a politician’s politician. He’s a stain on America, along with his pals John McCain and Kelly Ayotte.

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