Zimmerman not guilty in Trayvon Martin killing

George Zimmerman was found not guilty of manslaughter in the killing of Trayvon Martin. The jury came out with its verdict last night at around 10pm EST.

Trayvon-Martin

NYT:

The jury, which had been sequestered since June 24, deliberated 16 hours and 20 minutes over two days. The six female jurors entered the quiet, tense courtroom, several looking exhausted, their faces drawn and grim. After the verdict was read, each assented, one by one, and quietly, their agreement with the verdict.

Trayvon Martin’s father responds to the verdict

Trayvon Martin’s father, Tracy Martin, responded to the verdict via Twitter:

Trayvon-Martin-father-tweets

What the jury had to find in order for George Zimmerman to be guilty

They were looking at Second Degree Murder or Manslaughter.

AP explains some of the difference between Second Degree Murder and Manslaughter in Florida, and what you need to prove for each:

To secure a second-degree murder conviction, prosecutors had to convince the jury that Zimmerman acted with a “depraved” state of mind — that is, with ill will, hatred or spite. Prosecutors said he demonstrated that when he muttered, “F—— punks. These a——-. They always get away” during a call to police as he watched Martin walk through his neighborhood.

To win a manslaughter conviction, prosecutors had to convince the jury only that Zimmerman killed without lawful justification.

More on what a lawful justification is below.

The Washington Post notes that the jury was looking at the manslaughter charge, so they dismissed Second Degree murder:

Earlier Saturday, the jury had sent a note to Judge Debra Steinberg Nelson requesting clarification of instructions related to manslaughter, signaling that they were taking a hard look at the lesser of the two charges against the former neighborhood watch volunteer and sending a jolt through the courtroom and the crowd outside. Before starting deliberations, the jury was given a cautionary note by Nelson, who instructed them that “Zimmerman cannot be guilty of manslaughter by committing a merely negligent act or if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide.”

Negligence means there was no intent to kill, but you were so sloppy in your actions that you killed someone.  You’re negligent when you leave a loaded gun near a child, and the child uses it and harms someone, but you didn’t intend for the child to harm someone.

Without lawful justification” sounds like you still have to find that there was intent to kill.  But if you find intent, in order to convict it has to be an intent that was not lawful – meaning, it wasn’t justified by self-defense, or you weren’t a cop who’s justified in shooting someone.  That’s “justifiable homicide” – you intended to kill someone, but you were justified in doing it.

As for the other term, “excusable homicide,” here’s what it means in the Florida statutes:

782.03 Excusable homicide.—Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

That’s a long definition. It actually contains 3 independent definitions of excusable homicide – if you can prove any of the three, you’re off the hook.

In order to meet the first definition of excusable homicide you need to meet all of the following four elements:

1. By accident: You drop a vase of water accidentally, it breaks, someone near you slips on the water and breaks their neck; and

2. It also has to be while doing something lawful – meaning, if you accidentally kill someone while committing a crime, it’s not excusable homicide; and

3. You have to be exercising usual caution: You can’t be negligent in doing whatever you did that accidentally led to someone else dying; and

4. You can’t have had any unlawful intent: That one’s interesting.  It think it means that if I was intending to kill you, and I accidentally drop the vase, you trip on the water and die – my intent was still unlawful.  So even if it was an accident, they might not let me off the hook.

But there’s a second definition that can independently count as “excusable homicide”:

1. By accident; and

2. It was the heat of passion and you were suddenly provoked to a significant degree.

I’m not entirely sure I understand this second defense.  I think that may be saying that the other elements in the first definition – that you were doing something lawful, that you were exercising caution, and that you didn’t have an unlawful intent may not be necessary for this second definition of “excusable homicide” if it was the heat of passion and you were suddenly provoked to a significant degree.  I wonder if this isn’t the reason the jury found Zimmerman not guilty.

And the third definition of excusable homicide in the law says that you were suddenly in a fight, and no dangerous weapon was used, yet the other guy died – that clearly doesn’t apply to this case, as there was a gun.

USA Today seems to think that the jury ruled that Trayvon Martin was killed in self-defense:

The not guilty verdict means the jury of six women found that Zimmerman justifiably used deadly force and reasonably believed that such force was “necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm” to himself — Florida’s definition of self-defense.

Can the Justice Department intervene?

Interesting statement from Al Sharpton about the Justice Department via AP:

Issuing a statement from New York, civil rights leader the Rev. Al Sharpton called the not-guilty verdict “a slap in the face to the American people but it is only the first round in the pursuit of justice.”

“We intend to ask the Department of Justice to move forward as they did in the Rodney King case and we will closely monitor the civil case against Mr. Zimmerman,” Sharpton said, adding that he will travel to Florida in the next few days.


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • recon

    Want to be a good american blogger?

    realize that a good citizen accepts the challenges to strive for a great reputation!

    we make mistakes, admit them, apologize, and move forward! it is a great responsibility!

    We set an example and communicate in a formal fashion so that those who are chosen to lead know what we are about!

    We give a shit about our community!

    we exceed beyond the limitations!

    sacrificing personal comforts and dedicating ourselves!

    physical fitness, mental attitude, and high ethics!

    honor, pride, ethics, and code!

    Conquering all obstacles, both large and small!

    we shall never quit!

    Through professional pride, integrity, and teamwork!

    Honor, Perseverance, Spirit and Heart!

    A true effective community active adult, is educated, humble, and savvy. He or she can speak without saying a word!

    and achieve what others can only imagine!

  • recon

    i thought his momma was from peru? have any references? just curious?

  • recon

    LT must be the responding officer? the commanding officer of district where incident was committed? the defense attorney? or other legal insight position holder on martin vs zimmerman. one paragraph is not enough sir, please elaborate so we can learn? alright alright alright…we are going to learn today!

  • beancrisp

    So you think the government is justified to prosecute people on trumped up charges?

  • beancrisp

    How does stating the cold hard facts make someone an idiot.

  • samizdat

    “…the slums of New York and California.”

    …and the slums of rural Missouri, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, Arkansas, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Wisconsin, New York, Pennsylvania…

    The state of the country is such that ‘slums’ exist everywhere. You just don’t see them because you’ve closed your eyes to the pain and suffering of others.

  • samizdat

    Your argument is simpleminded, you know that, don’t you? The ol’ ‘love it or leave it’ canard went out of fashion with plaid hip-huggers.

  • samizdat

    Funny how they become “rogue” when they conduct business in a way which doesn’t satisfy your blood lust.

  • samizdat

    Thank you, you are an idiot.

    There, Kristine, I fixed it for you. By the way, the idiot bit goes for you, too.

  • Kristine

    If it wasn’t for the military or cops we would all be dead because there wouldn’t be any laws to protect the innocent and there wouldn’t be an America we would be controlled by the British, if you hated so much move to a different country. Recon thank you for your service I’m very thankful and Semper Fi

  • Kristine

    Oh screw you, you probably don’t know what happened maybe. You are racists against whites you always think it’s there faults. The evidence is there that Zimmerman was defending himself that’s why he wasn’t arrested at first until the media and Obama wanted him arrested. It’s not always white peoples fault. If someone was bashing your head in the pavement what would you do let them kill you or give you permit brain damage or would you defend yourself.Other races can be at fault too.

  • Kristine

    Thank You you are a smart person

  • LT

    truth is Trayvon Martin was a criminal, shot WHILE committing felony battery and possible attempted murder.. that is exactly what he would have been charged with had he not died WHILE committing those crimes… truth? yes… come on admit it….you can do it and be honest.. even if you don’t like it.

    …. he died because he was committing FELONY criminal acts and got shot doing it.. not because he was black..its pretty simple ..

  • caphillprof

    Juries do not determine innocence.

  • RJ

    Why is the race card played when things don’t go their way? I lived in a Multi-Cultured neighborhood in North Las Vegas. I had 3 attempted home invasion and all involved men of color. I moved out of the area for this reason. If I was to stay and I saw a man of color walking around the neighborhood and I did not know him would it be wrong to be suspicious of him? or did it just happen to be chance that over 90% percent of home invasion involved a man of color. Tired of hearing “its because I’m black” or its because he was black ect…….

  • not a racist thing

    Zimmerman is Mexican not white lets get that straight but if some kid i don’t care what color he or she was. but if he or she was beating the crap out of me and i feared for my life me as an American have the right to defend myself no matter what. I wouldn’t want to die if he was just some kid either. I wouldn’t want to be the one to die. But Trayvon was beating him and his head was bleeding with gravel in it don’t forget that. I was even talking to an African American at my work he said he would have shoot the kid to. I doubt it was a race thing, just a MEXICAN fearing for his life.

  • beancrisp

    Stopping rogue prosecutors from prosecuting an person is the epitome of the justiceinnocent system at it’s finest.

  • beancrisp

    Stopping rogue prosecutors from railroading an innocent person is the eptome

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I bet all two of your grey cells figured that out. Huh genius?

  • recon

    this is why you will not catch many police officers or jarheads posting in forums…the world has become a pussy of itself (crude yet fairly accurate, honor and code are dying)… liars are winning and honest men and women are unrecognized!

    martin vs. zimmerman really bothers me, zimmerman’s future…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/legal-analyst-on-what-lies-ahead-for-zimmerman/2013/07/14/8c57b1ac-ecdd-11e2-b46e-f15eec37b46c_video.html

    more than what jack ford said has to happen, florida law is going to have to change…this is ridiculous!

  • recon

    without knowing anything else about that case, discharging a firearm within city limits and discharging a firearm into a dwelling are miniscule charges unless they resulted to murder or manslaughter like Martin vs. Zimmerman.

    i just can’t help but think there is more to that case than an uncomplicated discharge firearm (without causing injury to a person) 25 years, that sounds way off or something gone really really bad, sad, nightmare situation.

  • beancrisp

    There is absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman ever attacked Trayvon
    prior to shooting him in self-defense. The prosecution couldn’t even put
    together a story of how Trayvon could have been at least a block,
    perhaps two, ahead of Zimmerman and headed home, then somehow ended up
    near Zimmerman’s car beating him up.

    Did Zimmerman chase him down then force him at gunpoint back to his car.
    After that he again forced Trayvon (at gunpoint) to punch him a few
    times so it looked good before shooting him?

    Or perhaps Trayvon overpowered Zimmerman briefly after having been forced back to the car, only to get shot in the end.

    This is so completely ridiculous and without a single shred of evidence
    supporting it that the prosecution never presented it. If they had their
    case would become so clearly a sham that they would have been laughed
    out of court.

    Instead they had to pursue an attack on Zimmerman’s character and try to
    discredit his story without offering any alternative at all.

    Any account has to include that Trayon was a significant distance away
    from Zimmerman, headed even further away then ended up next to him with
    Zimmerman beaten up.

    The only account I have heard that makes any sense is Zimmerman’s.

  • Egan Foote

    I agree completely. Obviously you cannot compel the defendant to testify, but by shifting the burden of proof for such justification claims to the defendant, and by preventing them from introducing their self-defense claim through sneaky evidentiary means other than their testimony (which, in turn, opens them to cross examination), you have a much better system. And I remind you that this is the way it works in the majority (or many) jurisdictions.

    It is just baffling to me that Zimmerman was able to introduce his self-defense justification claim without actually having to personally assert such a defense and subject himself to cross-examination as to the credibility of those claims. Many blame the jury for their verdict, but it is really the system that is problematic. I hate to say it, but based on Florida law and procedure, and the evidence presented, I would not have been surprised had the jury gone either way. The burden on the prosecution to disprove a self-defense claim beyond a reasonable doubt, without being able to question the credibility of the individual making those claims, makes the prosecution’s extremely difficult.

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    Yes, I do, in fact, find this profoundly troubling. I am quite leery of any burden-shifting away from the state in criminal prosecutions, but it seems to me that in a homicide case like this, in which the sole fully percipient witness other than the defendant happens to be the dead victim, and the defendant’s self-defense claim consists of accusing this permanently silenced victim of aggravated assault and battery, it might not be inappropriate to hold that leveling such an accusation essentially amounts to back-door testimony and compels a waiver of the defendant’s 5th Amendment rights even if the defendant doesn’t actually take the stand. Since “dead men tell no tales,” perhaps the survivor ought to be required to tell his tale first hand and submit to cross-examination.

  • Ferdiad

    Look at the facts of that case. They have nothing to do with the Zimmerman case. People need to stop spreading lies just to continue the cycle of misinformation. The lady who fired a warning shot was violating a protection from abuse order when she entered the house. And, she fired the gun with her kids in close proximity -which put them in danger. AND, she was found guilty by the jury after she rejected a plea deal.

  • Badgerite

    Madam Prosecutor has said that all she promised anyone was that she would see that the parties had their day in court. But I don’t really see the value of a show trial. First by overcharging she stacked the deck against a conviction and then the prosecution barely showed up at trial. They allowed the defense to put the dead boy on trial instead of Zimmerman. It is almost as if they, the defense and the prosecution, sucker punched the parents of that dead boy. Contrast the behavior of Attorney O’Mara at the time he took the case as opposed to after the verdict. If they thought they were helping Zimmerman be that kind of offensive behavior, I think they were mistaken. This was not the legal system at its finest.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Modern racism was invented in the pre-colonial period as a justification for the slave trade.

    It was extended by the US Constitution, the betrayal of 1877 and Jim Crow and not it’s enshrined in drug laws and the racist imprisonment of people of color under cover of drug laws. Since the 1970′s when Jim Crow came under attack the prison population grew 700%. “While people of color make up about 30 percent of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent of those imprisoned.”

    The US is a sewer of bigotries and racism is the oldest, most enduring and most violent of them.
    http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

  • DJ

    Listen to the tapes moron. I didn’t make any of it up unlike you. You lack any substance to your arguments so all you can do is hurl insults. Your vision of the United States is the one that requires rejection. You really have a thing against vampires -don’t you ???? And you call me a racist…

    You are just another tool who’s been duped by the media.

  • mirror

    Only a wacked out racist with a twisted stereotype about black teen behavior would believe a teenager walking home with some junk food with a young buddy waiting for him watching TV would turn around after running away and attack some total stranger pursuing him in an SUV. Your racism has you living in a world divorced from reality. You do not believe black people act the same as other people, In fact, based on your support for the way this was handled, you do not even see black people as human. Racist frickin gun nut vampires trying to drag the whole country into their twisted nightmare…. Sheesh.

  • AntSWeb

    You want pathetic facts? LOL Here’s some for you.

    Black on Black murders surpass the number of people killed by the KKK every six months. In 2011 more than 7,000 black people were killed; the KKK killed 3,446 blacks in 86 years.

    Who’s violent? In Chicago as of July 2013, there have been 224 murders. Out of the 224, 173 of those were black. Blacks also were the offenders in 75 percent of the murders.

    Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.

    For the same 2003-2011 period, blacks were the victims of 75 percent of 4,265 murders. Blacks also were the offenders in 75 percent of the murders.

    Operation Enduring Freedom, the name for the war in Afghanistan, which started Oct. 7, 2001, has seen a total of 2,166 killed. The war has been ongoing for 11 years, 3 months and one week.

    Operation Iraqi Freedom, the name for the war in Iraq, which started March 20, 2003, and ended Dec. 15, 2011, saw a total of 4,422 killed.
    Priorities? Instead you’re protesting and jumping on Jesse Jackson’s and Al Sharpton’s bandwagon why don’t you all try protesting something that is FACTUAL. Fact of black on black murders in Chicago – killing each other.
    Why not protest rappers and music that your kids are listening to that promote violence, guns, and drugs? Priorities? LOL Maybe you should just continue to show your true ignorance by continuing to protest a case that has nothing to do with race and is now a NOT GUILTY verdict. Again, I ask, Priorities?
    I didn’t think so…

  • DJ

    Now he chased him ? Martin took off running while Zimmerman was in his car talking to the dispatcher. The dispatcher asked Zimmerman which way he (Martin) went. That is when Zimmerman exited his car to see if he could determine which direction Martin ran. At this point Martin had about 400 ft to get to where he was staying (a distance just over an average city block). Zimmerman remained on the phone with the dispatcher for another two minutes. Martin had given Zimmerman the slip and could have made it back in about 45 seconds (less if he would have run the distance) to where he was staying. Martin chose not to go back but instead jumped Zimmerman.

    You can try to fabricate the story however you’d like to fit your narrative. It has nothing to do with what really happened, however.

  • FLL

    Yes, I understand that racism has been used historically in the Thirteen Colonies and the United States to justify slavery. I’m also sure that racism has been used historically to justify slavery elsewhere in the Western Hemisphere during the same historical period.

  • recon

    amen!

  • recon
  • recon
  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Teach, guide, mentor, love and protect.

  • recon

    i am pursuing contributing to my community in other ways, negativity is a strong influence, it brings everyone down, makes even the most powerful men and women stay home, hug their kids, and lock the doors!

  • recon

    just sad really, i would like to tell you i wish i was on scene so i could participate in fairness, but i was not, i know very very little about this case, i am glad i was not there, i am retiring from law enforcement

  • Bill_Perdue

    Modern racism was invented in the US in the pre-colonial period and extended into the post-colonial period codified in colonial (1) and post-colonial laws and ultimately in the Constitution (2), then in Jim Crow laws and now in drug laws.

    The African slave trade was an attempt to make up for the difficulties of enslaving native Americans and European indentured slaves. The native American slaves often just committed suicide and both they and EuroAmerican slaves repeatedly ran away to ask for asylum from nearby native Nations. It was a capital crime in New England for anyone to run away and join native Nations. (3) (4)

    The racist justification for permanent chattel slavery began with southern preachers. mainly Presbyterians, soon became law and infected large layers of the EuroAmerican population. A Maryland law of 1664 said “Be it enacted… that all negroes or other slaves already within the Province, and all negroes and other slaves to be hereafter imported into the Province shall serve durante vita. And all children born of any negro or other slave shall be slaves as their fathers were for the term of their lives.” Similar laws were passed in other slave colonies and then in slave states. (1)

    Your confusion between the slave trade and the racism invented to justify is not surprising, nor is your paytriotic attempt to spread the blame. I raised the question of racism in the US, not the whole world.

    (1) Wiki

    (2) “Section 9 of Article I allowed the continued “importation” of slaves. By prohibiting changes for two decades to regulation of the slave trade, Article V effectively protected the trade until 1808, giving the States 20 years to resolve this issue. During that time, planters in states of the Lower South imported tens of thousands of slaves, more than during any previous two decades in colonial history.
    As further protection for slavery, the delegates approved Section 2 of Article IV, which prohibited citizens from providing assistance to escaping slaves and required the return of chattel property to owners. In a section negotiated by James Madison of Virginia, Section 2 of Article I designated “other persons” (slaves) to be added to the total of the state’s free population, at the rate of three-fifths of their total number, to establish the state’s official population for the purposes of apportionment of Congressional representation and federal taxation.” Wiki

    (3) 1491, New Revelations of the Americas before Columbus Charles Mann, Vintage, 2004

    (4) “I doe not see how we can thrive untill we gett into a stock of slaves” moaned a New Englander in 1645. http://alexgoldfeld.com/NEHShistory2.html

  • recon
  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Just playing Loona! :-)

  • JohnAGJ

    Personally, yes i would if their suggestion were reasonable. Zimmerman claims he did in this case, the 911 transcript seems to indicate he did and there was no credible evidence to prove otherwise.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    We so often disagree. I rather enjoy this thread of mutual understanding.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I would never ever want to become a cop, but do have military and police family going back generations that inform my distaste for correction and violence. I chose a different path. I can think of no more devastating weapon than a corrupt and unjust legal system.

  • JohnAGJ

    I havent followed that case but what little I heard it does seem excessive and perhaps an indictment against mandatory minimums being applied so broadly. I would note a couple of things though: the same prosecutor was in charge of both cases; Florida’s Stand Your Ground law was used as a defense in this case but was rejected since she left and came back, while Zimmerman ultimately didnt use that law for his defense.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Not at all, I relate similar understanding when talking about my hospice years.

  • recon

    if you think you can do a better job than a police officer i humbly suggest you pick a weapon and stand post!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    :-) I recognize that you have a great heart and a very hard professional path in life. Look out for the Travons that come your way, protect them and mentor them.

  • recon

    i can’t comment on this i know squat about this, i hope you find closure.

    it’s all fine and dandy (in theory) till it happens to “us”, “me” or “you” and our loved ones, then it’s a whole different situation!

    this conversation is saturated, please excuse me

    recon out

  • recon

    I wish you well non-combatant, may you live long and prosper!

    HM1 USMC NCDOJ/BLET SARC RN MSN

    Get some!

    (is that better?)

  • Badgerite

    Really? Did you know that in Florida a black woman who had been the victim of domestic abuse was sentenced to 25 years for firing a warning shot at the wall? At the wall. And how is it that she was put on trial. Wasn’t she just defending herself. Florida law does not allow the judge any discretion due to mandatory minimum sentencing requirements. She is going to prison for 25 years for firing a warning shot at the wall to ward off a guy who had beat her. Do you seriously propose that George Zimmerman deserves sympathy because he had to defend his killing ( shot through the heart killing ) of an unarmed 17 year old who he got into an altercation with while he was following him through the neighborhood. I don’t think so.

  • loona_c

    whether 911 operators have the “legal” authority to tell you what to do..if you call 911 asking for help, I would assume you would actuually LISTEN to what they tell you.

  • loona_c

    Hey, hey, hey… I’m not one of those curtain peekers! But the constables who partrol our neighborhood have advised us that if we see anyone suspicious to let THEM know. That was my point. I wouldn’t confront the person or take the law into my own hands. And if Zi8mmerman had done the same, Trayvon would still be alive

  • Badgerite

    How do you justify this result to the boy’s parents and the black community as a whole when the state of Florida also has a mandatory minimum that required a judge to sentence a black woman who had been the victim of domestic abuse and violence to 25 years in prison (25 YEARS) for firing a warning shot. Nobody was hurt. But the prosecution argued that the bullet COULD have ricocheted and hit someone. 25 years for a warning shot not even fired in anyone’s direction. How does Florida look the rest of the country in the eye after this bullshit. This woman is going to prison for a long time for trying to defend herself and not hurting anyone.

  • Badgerite

    You know, that’s a good point. I hope you are wrong.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    My view from a larger historical arc, is that when rule of law becomes increasing unjust social disintegration follows and the concept of anarchy manifests. States and particularly the southern states are increasing challenging federal and constitutional law. The Travon Martin tragedy will be a microcosm of the future dystopia.

  • Badgerite

    Huffington post has a rather interesting case contrast with this one. See Florida Woman Gets 20 Years For Firing Warning Shot. Florida law really is a mess.

  • Jan Phillips

    Not to mention the ice cream celebrating with his kids after Trayvon’s friend testified. wth

  • Badgerite

    It is all we’ve got short of vigilantism. The result of that was seen in the death of Trayvon Martin. So I wouldn’t disparage it too much. What’s the alternative. The real world is what it is. The law has to operate in the real world. It isn’t foolproof. Nothing is when you are dealing with people.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Just a note. I have served my community for nearly forty years, know the court system, and from long experience know that testilying underlies court law. Defense lawyers know it, prosecutors know it, judges know it and cops routinely lie as a matter of fact. Those that are hurt by this structure are by and far the people of color and the poor.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I’m with ya! ;-)

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I take your word that you are not a racist, that was not my point. The point is that ZImmerman was and remains a racist based on his recorded comments.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I agree totally with that. Vigilantes and poorly trained civilians with guns are a danger to the public safety.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    If you believe for one moment there was no bias regarding Zimmerman’s racist murder of a 17yr old black kid…YOU are part of the problem. And don’t give us semper fi—-outrageou!

  • benb

    I hope that the Civil Trial will hold Zimmerman responsible for his reckless behavior. Grab a gun and run out of the house to chase down some guy who must be a criminal, get into a fight, shoot the guy, and claim self-defense.

    Nobody’s safe in Florida.

  • recon

    emotion without intellect, i hate it when i do that, i am human, i have made many mistakes, and continue to make mistakes, nothing is perfect, we do our best, unfortunately not everyone lives by this rule, i wish you all well, long lives, and prosperity!

  • Whitewitch

    Really a down vote for this…wow

  • recon

    and by the way i am african american but i bleed blue, i am the guy behind you taking notes, exercising my given power carefully every single day and night, i am no one, i am a shadow, my best calls are the simple one’s where I get to help the nice people in my community with a car wreck, or other incident, and be nice, respectful, and know that my honor, ethics, morals, and code stand for something, freedom for everyone without bias!

    semper fi!

  • recon

    i truly truly wish zimmerman trayvon murder had never happened, this is a hit on our community, it breeds more racism, let’s all pull it together, and don’t try to do law enforcement’s job, they are underpaid, after all “you get what you pay for” so if the community hires cheap cops then they get cheap enforcement, testimony, and their ill effect in the court rooms

  • JohnAGJ

    Yes, which the 5th Amendment guarantees a defendant the right to avoid if they choose without this being an indication of guilt. Legally at least.

  • recon

    i am not racist ask any of the people who know me, i have arrested plenty of racists, we are all the same. look past trayvon’s ethnicity, he could be any race or gender, still presented himself on the data provided by the media as “undesirable” i won’t judge, i am not the arresting officer!

  • recon

    correct! what do you know about society really? have you served in combat? or served your community with a sidearm? maybe you have? i don’t know so i won’t judge you. life sucks, plenty of challenges this was trayvon’s last challenge, its a damn shame.

  • JohnAGJ

    Perhaps. Perhaps not. The jury instructions I read focused on whether he was guilty beyond a preasonable doubt of murder or manslaugter, not whether he acted in self defense or not which wasnt in the verdict.

  • Whitewitch

    Oh no karmanot – he called you a troll…guess these two don’t come by this blog often to visit. Shall we “troll” together

  • Badgerite

    Sad but true.

  • Badgerite

    Point taken.

  • Badgerite

    Correct me if I am wrong but those six kids are under arrest and were arrested without anyone having to tell the authorities to do so. How exactly does that relate to a case where an unarmed teenager is shot dead while walking home from the store and nothing happens. Crickets.

  • Badgerite

    Point taken.

  • Badgerite

    And did he do that by chasing after some kid he saw in the neighborhood and not listening to the dispatcher who told him not to and ultimately getting into a confrontation with the kid where he felt he needed to shoot him through the heart to survive and thereby setting off a firestorm in that community? I think not. There is a difference between tipping the police off about something and taking actions that end up with a dead body, don’t you think?

  • Badgerite

    Here;s the thing. Zimmerman did not even need to go to the hospital and he shot Trayvon Martin through the heart. The only way that the defense could sell the idea that a guy who had no serious injuries was in fear for his life was to put Trayvon Martin on trial. And they did. And given what the kid was actually doing that night as the evidence shows, walking home from the store, it was disgusting. People who are upset about this verdict are not the only ones ‘speculating’. Trayvon Martin was doing routine daily activity and ended up dead and they are still out there trying to make him into a dangerous criminal to justify Zimmerman’s response of deadly force

  • Badgerite

    You want to know what is not speculation. Zimmerman’s injuries were so minor that he did not even feel the need to go to the hospital. Trayvon Martin was shot straight through the heart and was dead within minutes. No chance of survival. Do you really think that kind of deadly shooting was really warranted by anything Trayvon Martin did? And if Zimmerman, as neighborhood watch, could not really defend himself in a physical altercation, why was he following this kid? Why didn’t he keep his distance as would have been prudent and wait for the police as they told him to do? I will tell you why. Because he had a gun. The great equalizer. If you have a gun, you can chase someone down whom you don’t know and if you get yourself into trouble you can shoot to kill. That’s reasonable?

  • Egan Foote

    I agree as a general matter that the criminal justice system is designed to prevent innocent people from wrongful conviction, but you cannot treat the criminal justice system as a whole. Florida has legal and procedural differences from the majority of other states… specifically, the burden of proof for self defense claims. In most states, the burden shifts to the defendant to actively prove self-defense on a preponderance of evidence standard; in Florida, the burden is on the prosecution to DISPROVE self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt (a much higher standard than preponderance of evidence). So while I agree that procedure is extremely important in preserving the things you described, there are legal frameworks in other states that are more than adequate in protecting the innocent, while also ensuring that people like Zimmerman have to actually actively prove he was justified in shooting and killing an unarmed teen. Simply put, had this case taken place in the majority of jurisdictions outside of Floriday, Zimmerman would have surely been convicted.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Bingo!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    And we can only pray that someone like you never sits on a murder jury.

  • hefetone

    Then by all means, I applaud your comment. 808 is not speaking as a citizen.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Move out of Florida, find haven in blue states.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    both

  • Egan Foote

    Unfortunately, those two points are somewhat in conflict. I think the second point is probably more accurate: that Florida law and criminal procedure is deeply flawed. In light of that, was the prosecution really bad? Or were they simply working in a situation where the deck was stacked in favor of a murderer.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Ever hear of testilying?

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    We need more paranoids like you peeking through the curtains and reporting kids with skittles on their way home to catch a game with dad. You go girl, but please stay inside and out of the way of gangsters with cop fantasy like Zimmerman.

  • Badgerite

    I keep coming back to the fact that he shot the kid right through the heart. Zimmerman did not even have to go to the hospital. And yet he shot to kill and left no chance for survival. I don’t think this was REASONABLE force even if you accept the he justified in shooting the kid. Was it reasonable for him to shoot that kid right through the heart? Not in my book.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I find him astute and well read, as I do you.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    0

  • Badgerite

    I think as one commentator noted, they are trying to discourage a civil suit against Zimmerman. But I don’t think they do that by being offensive assholes. I’m just sayin’.

  • Egan Foote

    The majority of jurisdictions do not put the burden of proof on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a defendant’s self-defense justification claim is true; rather, affirmative defenses generally shift the burden on the defendant making such a claim to prove on a preponderance of evidence standard that his actions fit self-defense. That was all I was saying. The problem here is Florida law; had this occurred in a state that employs a self-defense system like that which I described above, Zimmerman would have surely been found guilty.

  • Badgerite

    I know. I thought their cross examination of her was quite offensive. But it worked to knock out the only testimony that conflicts with Zimmerman’s account.

  • dula

    Lol yeah or we could just have another civil war and watch silly racists lose again hahahahahahaha.

  • Jan Phillips

    And GZ’s attorney, Don West, is beyond nauseating — after the verdict spouting all that stuff about the persecution of his client. Wow. Really? How about being thankful you got your coward off and leave it at that.

  • BeansFerSupper

    Name-calling, ad-hominem attacks are not funny. For some of us, beans are our new reality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAmToi32yI

  • JohnAGJ

    It’s that procedure, as woefully inadequate as it may be, which enables us to get justice in these cases and prevent the innocent from being railroaded. It doesn’t always workand may not have in this case but I see nothing better out there. Any judicial system is going to have procedures which will not be perfect.

  • FLL

    I understand what you’re saying. Starting with the previous thread about Hillary, I’ve been trying to read Bill’s comments more carefully and fairly.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I believe that it is the first time a chunk of sidewalk was brought in as a defense witness—probably because it couldn’t talk or use sign language to communicate.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I repeat: “particularly in law, where justice is incidental to procedure.”

  • JohnAGJ

    That’s your opinion which may be right or not, but isn’t sufficient in court. The evidence was not clear cut that Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter. He might be guilty (or not), but the State failed to prove he was under the law.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Bill is focusing on Travon Martin and his cold blooded murder, excused by the corrupt legal system in Florida. If you read Bill often enough you know that he is fully cognisant of wrongdoing outside the US.

  • Badgerite

    A gunshot wound straight to the heart. Do you really think he needed to do that to ‘defend’ himself?

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    The evidence was there. Zimmerman is a murderer.

  • Badgerite

    He was on his way to Target with a loaded weapon. Trayvon Martin was unarmed and on his way home from the store. What’s your point. Did Trayvon Martin do something, other than walking while black, that should have resulted in him being followed and later killed by a guy on his way to Target with a gun?

  • Badgerite

    That is where the physical injuries to Zimmerman came into play. That, I believe , is what tipped the balance in the juries minds. But really, I find it hard to understand why to defend himself, Zimmerman viewed his only option as shooting Trayvon Martin right in the heart so that he really had no chance of survival. He didn’t shoot purely to ‘save himself’. He shot to kill.

  • Badgerite

    That is exactly right. No one can prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was not self defense. How does that strike you as an emotional objection? The only real witness that could contradict Zimmerman is the one who ended up dead after throwing punches at an unknown guy who was FOLLOWING HIM. Would you like to be put in that position? Would you like your son or daughter to be put in that position? I doubt it.

  • FLL

    The African slave trade was invented by people of European descent here in the Western Hemisphere. The white people who did this were (in chronological order):

    (1) Portuguese (starting around 1500)
    (2) Spanish (starting around 1500)
    (3) English—Thirteen Colonies (starting around 1600)
    (4) French—West Indies (starting around 1700)

    The countries with the most trafficking in slaves (by volume) were:

    (1) Portuguese (Brazil)—by far, accounting for 38% of the total
    (2) English (Thirteen Colonies)—around 25%
    (3) French (West Indies)—around 13%

    Your focus on racism is to be commended, but you have a tendency to ignore wrongdoing that occurs outside the United States.

  • JohnAGJ

    True which means that Zimmerman could be guilty and it just wasn’t proven under the law or he really was innocent of the charges and was railroaded. Beats me what the truth is as I wasn’t there that night and the evidence wasn’t sufficient to prove him guilty.

  • Badgerite

    Really, since the prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was lying about the start of the altercation. How do you do that if the only eye witness was dead. The best they could do was question his story based on the testimony of someone who only heard the first and perhaps last words spoken one to the other. And she had to sit on the stand for seven hours or more of cross examination about everything including why she didn’t go to his funeral, which doesn’t seem entirely relevant to anything to me. Zimmerman didn’t have to take the stand or submit to anything of the kind. Even if Martin had been able to testify, it would still have been one person’s word against another. The simple fact is, with this kind of situation, the prosecution overcharged and then didn’t seem to put much of an effort into the trial.

  • JohnAGJ

    I agree with you about what would be best in that situation, but there was no evidence to support this claim about what Zimmerman did that night. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t I don’t know. What really happened that night we will never know but the evidence didn’t support conviction for what he was charged with. Neither man broke any laws until the confrontation happened when at that point one or both did. Who did and exactly how we don’t know nor does the evidence give us conclusive proof. Btw Zimmerman was not told by the police not follow Martin, it was a 911 operator who made the suggestion to him and cannot legally give orders. Zimmerman replied “ok” and claims he headed back to his car when Martin jumped him. Did it happen that way? Beats me but the State failed to prove otherwise.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    What’s real and what’s true are not always the same—-particularly in law, where justice is incidental to procedure.

  • lynchie

    They already have. Ann Coulter was having an orgasm of pure pleasure over the verdict.

    What a country.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Brilliant analysis. I would also suggest that the only witness, an inarticulate black woman, was totally and falsely discredited and her testimony dismissed.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “Division among the masses”? really, that powerful. Please be informed by the mighty me that some opinions are just deserving of degradation. Maybe you would have an easier time of it and find your happy dance over at the Britebart blog.

  • JohnAGJ

    That’s not what the verdict said at all. Zimmerman was found not guilty, which doesn’t mean he is innocent of any wrongdoing that night. This only means that the jury found reasonable doubt with the case the prosecution presented against him. That’s it. Oh and the jury was all-female with 1 nonwhite on it.

  • Badgerite

    Exactly. One of the best commentaries I have read was by Scott Lemieux at the American Prospect.

    “But it is important to not lose sight of something else: the inadequacy of the law in most states to deal with America’s gun culture. Carrying a deadly weapon in public should carry unique responsibilities…..Under current law in many states, people threatened by armed people have few good options, because fighting back might create a license to kill. As the New Yorker’s Amy Davidson puts it, “I still don’t understand what Trayvon Martin was supposed to do.”

    The person they seemed to put on trial was Trayvon Martin, not Zimmerman. Zimmerman was treated like some innocent bystander who was witnessing a crime and somehow, almost against his will, got involved and then had to defend himself when he was attacked. Indeed, this was the attitude at the defense table at trial. This simply isn’t believable to me. The kid was walking home from the store with skittles and a can of iced tea and suddenly decided it would be a good idea to attack some guy who was following him. I think that girl was telling the truth about what she heard in those few seconds when Zimmerman and Martin first encountered each other. No other witnesses saw or heard the genesis of the physical altercation. She did and the defense table kept her on the stand for seven hours. That is a long time to cover what in real time covered a few seconds. She was not particularly articulate and clearly uncomfortable in the limelight and they bore in on that and used it to their advantage. I found it kind of disgusting. But that, of course, was their job and their duty as his legal representatives.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Your cynicism is showing MW.

  • Jan Phillips

    Badgerite, agreed. I don’t think that’s asking too much, after all they got their guy off. West is missing a sensitivity gene, like a lot of people that post.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    On his way to Target? ROTFL to buy some Martha Stewart white sheets no doubt.

  • Boog

    I’m laughing at you kar…you have no argument. You troll people here to get a rise out of them. When you do respond it’s with hate and malice. You bring nothing to the table but division amongst the masses. You call me self righeous but nowhere did i elevate myself above anyone else nor degrade someone for what their opinion was. It’s people like you that stir the pot of hatred in this country.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “You’re (sp) personal value comes from within.” And if you are a racist, then Martin was a invented as a young black thug, who was guilty of his own murder by a profiling vigilante.

  • Boog

    but i do have comments here …some quite lengthy….check em out..I never mind an intelligent discussion

  • Boog

    lol….as if I haven’t been called that before

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “After that the law and the facts of the case take over.” I believe you seriously believe law is about justice. That’s not my experience. A courtroom is about testilying and plausible fantasy.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    wrong

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Don’t carry a gun please, you are sure to shoot off your balls.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “but the last 2 days my wife and I are disgusted by our own race.” How very sad for you……pathetic in fact.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Keep on laughing clown, no one is laughing with you.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Nauseated for sure.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “I could be wrong about that.” You are troll.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “why aren’t you asking about Trayvon’s right of self defense?” Because Brianruff is an aggrieved racist.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Wrong

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Very like!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Ain’t that the truth some real doozies like Boog and Fart etc…Southern degenerates, proud racist cops like Recon and other half-wit racists have found the honey over at AB.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Boog-er you would know 0 comments 0 following o everything.

  • Boog

    troll

  • Boog

    so now you’re sticking out your tongue at me!?….lol

  • Boog

    lol….self righteous?…..creep?….Why are you attacking me with slurs….attack my argument…to attack the arguer and not the argument just shows that you have no argument….lol….

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    ppppffffftttt

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “he just needed a beat down” And this is from a self proclaimed educated x Marine police officer.

  • Boog

    I never said he wasn’t prepared (in his mind) to use a gun. I asked the question where was the evidence that he was LOOKING to use his gun, which is in response to the statement above me. Saying he was looking to use his gun implies that he was eager to shoot something or someone….preparedness does not mean that. And I’m still waiting on the evidence that shows he was eager to shoot something or someone….

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “but as a combat marine, police officer: No wonder justice is in the tank with bigots like you in uniform. But, that is no surprise to people of color. You are a disgrace. “i can’t say anything with accuracy” Is that ever the truth.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Very like.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    That is so true.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    This country is disintegrating. This Florida decision gives stand your ground gun nuts license to kill black men and once murdered claim self defense. Zimmerman’s brother defending the jury decision was chilling. It was like watching a Nazi expound on justification at the Nuremberg trials.

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ zorbear

    iHop…
    :-)

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    A bigot troll attempting to be clever. Clue: don’t take on the caphillprof….you can’t possibly win, even if you did have a brain.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “Six white women decided it’s okay to kill a black teenager.” Right

  • recon

    i saw the youtube video of trayvon referring to himself as “gansta”, gold colored metal on his teeth, trayvon probably watched too many thug movies and listened to “gansta” rap.

    those people who know trayvon can testify to this, i don’t know trayvon so i can’t say anything with accuracy but as a combat marine, police officer i can say trayvon appeared shady with the data i saw and read.

    zimmerman was an idiot for chasing this fool and a dumbass for shooting him, let the police do their job!

  • recon

    i dont know the entire case, but as an educated man, just from what i have seen and read

    1 at the very least zimmerman should have been indicted of 2nd degree manslaughter
    2 trayvon martin was a little thug wanabee but did not deserve to be shot, he just needed a beat down

  • mirror

    Who the hell are these people. Are these regular AmericaBlog readers, or just celebrants at the start of hunting season in racist America?

  • mirror

    That’s simply silly John. These jurors will never cop to their biases, so we will never know if we know their reasoning.

  • mirror

    You are proud to have it open season on young Black teens? You are beyond Uncle Tom to deep self-hate.

  • mirror

    If you carry all the time, you are expecting a confrontation all the time, by definition. There is simply no way you would pursue a stranger in the dark if you were carrying without thinking about being prepared to use your gun. To say anything different is simply total bs.

  • mirror

    By definition, if Zimmerman had no notion his actions might lead to physical confrontation, he wouldn’t have being carrying a firearm. This is a guy who wakes up every morning thinking his actions might lead to a physical confrontation.

  • mirror

    Stand your ground is for white people, man. Cops down there understand that, which is why they didn’t treat this as even a basic homicide investigation from the start. The police acted like Zimmerman had accidentally run over a dog.

  • mirror

    When you follow, then chase someone, you are “engaged”, by definition. Racist frickin’ vampire.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “conservocreeps” have no belief or respect for the law and that operates at all levels of the so-called justice system.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    And true justice even better.

  • mirror

    I followed the whole trial. It is extremely clear that Zimmerman stalked and then pursued a frightened unarmed person engaged in ordinary daily activity – then he shot him in the heart. stalked – pursued – shot – killed – after being told not to. He sought a confrontation, created a confrontation, and then shot the person he was pursuing.

    It is only racists like you who believe the legal argument that a black teen is presumed to be using deadly force at all times in all situations, up until the teen is dead.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    You are a sick F*** go troll somewhere else.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Bingo

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    You are a real laugh fart.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    And you served where?

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Simple: Incarceration is an outsourced big and profitable business now.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    ROTFL

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    True

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “I can’t believe blacks are buying Sharpton’s crapola.” Says you whitey. You do have a lot of up arrows from the racists trolling today.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “The boy behaved recklessly also. But he didn’t have a gun. Just his fists.” For Christ’s sake. He was 17 years old, being stalked by a creep twice his size and defended himself. Reckless, I don’t think so.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Here, people are sick of you and nauseated. Go over to Brietbart and push your racism S**t head.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    The Martins must have really enjoyed their murdered son being slandered by the killer’s brother on the cables last night.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Especially in Florida. The citizens elected a criminal to the governorship for Christ’s sake. Every rigid conservative snowbird, racist and loose moron in the country ends up in Florida at some point.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Justice denied

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “we won’t really know what their reasoning was.” The South, six white women, a black youth murdered in self defense by a (white) man, victim guilty—–tradition.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    One of the Zimmermans will be getting their Sarah Palin five minutes of fame spot on FOX. George’s brother is an articulate racist and fascist of the first order.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Thank you Unka Tom. Black bigots get their day on AB.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “Keep making excuses and finding reasons to point the finger at GZ
    because it continues to make you all look ignorant and illogical and
    uneducated.” That finger is pointing at you racist trash.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    What a load of self righteous bullshit. I pray to God that creeps like you don’t carry concealed guns.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “It’s not possible to conclude any instance of profiling based on this limited event.” Quite aside from your fermenting racism, I believe that we can now profile Florida as a state where victims are guilty while proven dead.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    He probably will. Next time he’ll bring his racist uber Catholic brother along as a witness.

  • BeansFerSupper

    “The next Trayvon will stand their ground and shoot the next Martin who tries to stalk and harass them.”

    That is a good law dula. The way you put it, there won’t be any need for a neighborhood watch or a Zimmerman. I guess when the next Trayvon stalks the next Martin, they’ll be shooting at their self. hahahhaha!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    If it happens to you, we’ll blame you for your own murder.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    There is no logic by DJ, just racism.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Thank you racist troll, very helpful.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    You have your head so far up Zimmerman’s ass all you can see is ‘black.’

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    All this legal wandering and nit picking cannot change the facts: Zimmerman stalked, was told not to by the police, and murdered Martin because he was black and profiled by a want to be cop vigilanti.

  • mirror

    dagman: Thank you for expressing so well the difficulty and pain facing parents today, especially parents of black teens. I simply don’t know what advice and instructions to give when it’s open season….

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “Sadly, Florida law” Sums it up perfectly. It is now open season to murder young black men and blame them for their own deaths.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “Please put a bag over your head” A white hood would be more accurate.

  • dula

    In Florida, there is a law about behaving in a threatening manner that makes a person fear for their life. The next Trayvon will stand their ground and shoot the next Martin who tries to stalk and harass them.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Simple: Zimmerman is a racist murderer sanctioned by the State of Florida. His whole family is no better. The interview of his brother and his views was vile.

  • Jimmy

    Sadly, this isn’t all that shocking. One, the prosecution was truly bad. Someone should be fired. Second, Florida law was weighted too heavily in favor of Zimmereman.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Is anyone really surprised that in the South, yet another white jury found a black man murdered by a white one is found guilty?

  • JOHN WILSON

    IDK BUT HE LOOKS LIKE A THUG TO ME AND SEEMS LIKE HE WAS UP TO NO GOOD WALKING AROUND A NIEGHBORHOOD THAT LATE AT NIGHT!

  • Bill_Perdue

    Another racist murderer got off scot free. Business as usual in the country that invented modern racism to import African slaves and is still punishing African Americans for wanting equality.

  • flocculent

    Maybe Zimmerman was also a wannabe dietician?

  • BeansFerSupper

    This kid didn’t either. And where was Obama and Holder?? Crickets..

    http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Teens-Killed-Because-They-Were-Bored-Judge-111189404.html

  • discus_sucks_ass

    George will be OK FAUX un-News has a spot all set for him, and lots of dolts will contribute to his internet pleas for help so he can use that money to party with like he did before

  • http://www.americablog.com/ Naja pallida

    I’m more concerned of the exact opposite happening. Now that they know they can get away with it, all sorts of vigilante wannabes out there “protecting” us from Skittle wielding threats. And ignoring the whole concept of a neighborhood watch.

  • AntSWeb

    I don’t think so. I did not divide a country and a nation to the point that it has taken us back 25 years. Jump on your bandwagon if you want, you’re just as ignorant as the rest out there. I’m a proud black man, but the last 2 days my wife and I are disgusted by our own race.

  • Outspoken1

    WWB ‘Walking While Black in a Hoodie’ (similar to DWB – driving while black/brown)

  • BeansFerSupper

    There is no law about getting out from your car. There is however, laws against bashing a persons head on the concrete. If Trayvon didn’t do that, there’s a good chance he’d be alive today.

  • BeansFerSupper

    “Six white women decided it’s okay to kill a black teenager.”

    No, this is not what the jury decided. They decided Zimmeman was innocent. Pay attention from now on.

  • Boog

    I agree on all points…..but what i hope DOESN’T happen, is people stop becoming neighborhood watches and helping police solve crimes…..if I’m mistaken please correct me, didn’t GZ help the police in another case solve a burglary?

  • Boog

    very well said..

  • Joan

    How can America tell other countries to respect human rights when a 16 year old cannot get justice in America from a man who is stalking him, I hope Trayvon did manage to get in some3 blows. Black young men are targeted in a way in this country to make them defensive when followed and challenged.

  • Boog

    It’s against the law for the police to profile, I know….but is it illegal for a private citizen to profile someone? Neighborhood watches are volunteers and to my knowledge do not have any bylaws or legal guidelines in this matter…I could be wrong about that…I don’t know…but i don’t know of any….

  • Boog

    not wanting to argue, but i would like to know what piece of evidence showed he was looking to use his gun that night? I too carry a pistol all the time (with permit) concealed. I know he got out after being told not too but it doesn’t show he was looking to use his gun. I think he was emboldened to check this person out (Im not suggesting that Trayvon was guilty of anything) because if I’m correct he had helped in the apprehension of some burglars in the area before. In his mind, he was basically encouraged to do it again (look for more burglars) because of previous success. I’m NOT saying Trayvon was guilty or even suspicious looking….that this is what I believe Zimmerman was most likely thinking. I don’t think he knew he was ….experienced…..enough to know what happens when you confront someone, ALL confrontations have the potential to turn bad…..It was not illegal for Zimmerman to follow him. plain and simple that is not against the law. It’s not illegal for Zimmerman to ask him a quiestion, or even make a snide remark….BUT….it IS illegal for either party to use force on the other….I wasn’t there, you weren’t there…only they were there…and we have limited evidence….In a court of law, the defendant is presumed INNOCENT….we don’t want to change that….for our judicial system to have a prayer at justice we must never lose that part of it…..it’s crucial to us being a civilized democracy…..and with THAT presumption of innocence and the limited evidence…..not circumstantial but factual evidence I feel that the jury had no choice but give the verdict they gave….Im not saying that Zimmerman didn’t kill him on purpose….I’m saying that there was no evidence to prove it….and since we weren’t there….we can’t say that he did….it hurts deep on the inside for many people, I know…I lost a brother in a killing where the killer said that he was the aggressor…..and the killer walked….I know that it hurts….let’s just pray to God Almighty that we can “Love our Neighbors as we love our self” as he intended and maybe we will learn to live in peace with each other in spite of our differences…..

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    I I hope we’ll be stories from lawyers who know the local law better. Though until the jury does interviews, if they do interviews, we won’t really know what their reasoning was.

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    Again, do you really think this would have happened if Trayvon Martin had been a white kid? Do you really think Zimmerman would have done anything but sit in his car and barely notice said white kid passing by with his Skittles and tea?

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    If Trayvon Martin had been a white 17-year-old George Zimmerman would not have given him a second look. He would have arrived safely home at his father’s condo and would still be with us today. If you believe otherwise you are living in a fantasy world.

  • loona_c

    In my neighborhood (not in FL) if I see someone I don’t recognize or “suspect” I watch and see where they go and worst case call the local security to come check him out. That’s what should have done. Zimm wanted to take the law into his own hands. He ignored the police’s comment to not follow him.

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    That is the nub of the problem here and I’m not sure sure what we can do about it. I am not at all happy that Zimmerman gets to walk away from gunning an innocent kid down, but the last thing we need to do is to further relax the evidentiary burden on the state in criminal prosecutions. Too many young men of color are being warehoused in prison as it is. I don’t want to make it any easier.

  • dula

    He obviously pre-judged the kid because Martin was out to buy candy and then walk home. Zimmerman got out of the car to make sure he didn’t get away like punks always do. He approached an innocent kid to detain him. That is threatening behavior and it created a violent situation…negligent homicide at the very least.

  • Martin Hristoforov

    sorry my bad, didn’t see the yamaka

  • Martin Hristoforov

    yep

  • FLL

    “seems”? This is how you describe taking Zimmerman’s word and ignoring the documented audio evidence of Zimmerman’s conversation with the radio dispatcher? Pathetic. Please put a bag over your head and hope that no one recognizes you. Oh, that’s’ right. Your username is “guest1.”

  • kladinvt

    You should hope that YOU don’t walk into some area where you’re viewed as “suspicious” because some vigilante could come gunning for you too. I realize this requires empathy on your part, but give it a try.

  • dagman

    John, The question I have here is how could Martin have survived – or do we just interpret Florida Law that once Martin was in the neighborhood and Zimmerman decided to trail/follow him – his life was justifiably over. As I understand the facts which are not in dispute, Martin made every effort to flee when he realized he was being trailed. Only after Zimmerman continued to follow/track him and get out of the car did Martin decide to fight. Because Zimmerman never ID’d himself (by his own admission) the kid assumed Martin was after him. Only when Martin became cornered did he become the aggressor – if at all. I have two boys, and I trained them from young age to act exactly as Martin did. When you encounter a situation where you believe yourself to be in peril, try to flee. But if you are not able to get away, never – ever, let your self get pulled into a car/van/house by a stranger. The odds are overwhelming that you will never get away. Kick/scream/scratch/punch – do whatever you must do to get away. I am unsure of the law, but is the logical/reasonable argument that Martin did not try enough to flee?

  • DJ

    Witness testimony has Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him. This is consistent with Zimmerman’s account of that night. No evidence was ever introduced that Zimmerman lied about his account. The police and forensic evidence also support Zimmerman’s account.

    You can choose to “believe” whatever you like. None of your beliefs have to have any basis in fact, however. My usage of the word “fact” refers to evidence introduced at trial.

    If a white 17 year old had been smashing Zimmerman’s head on a sidewalk he would have shot him as well. There is nothing to suggest anything to the contrary. In the end Zimmerman shot Martin because he was being assaulted. There was nothing at the trial that the color of Martin’s skin had anything to do with she shooting.

    Zimmerman was within his legal rights to follow Martin so there no need to attempt to go there. If Martin would have chosen to simply walk home instead of attacking an armed man he would have never died of a gunshot wound that was fired in self-defense.

  • cole3244

    wink & a nod american style, murder the teen then rape his family.

  • Roman Berry

    Zimmerman was on his way to Target. He wasn’t “looking for someone to kill.” The “progressive” community is not covering itself in glory with the vast majority of comments on this blog and others. It’s apparent that most of you didn’t actually follow the trial and got your “news” from idiots on cable or other outlets that sought to paint a picture at odds with the facts.

  • Buford

    Oh good grief. He clearly followed and confronted Trayvon because he assumed Trayvon to be a thug up to no good, and then he killed Trayvon when Trayvon effectively defended himself against an aggressor.

  • Buford

    Interesting perspective, especially since the trial itself confirmed that ‘Stand Your Ground’ only requires a person to fear imminent danger before acting to defend themselves. So when Zimmerman followed Trayvon and confronted him, Trayvon legally had the right to physically defend himself… yet you seem to suggest that Trayvon’s defensive actions caused the whole situation.

    Your logic makes no sense.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    There is no evidence that Martin was a thug or a criminal or had any intention of doing anything other than walk home.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    But why did he think Martin was a thug or a criminal? That’s the question.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    LOL. since when. The high crime states are the red ones.

  • Egan Foote

    Even if we were to accept that analysis, do you not find it troubling that Zimmerman was able to meet that initial burden of production without having to testify? That he was able to introduce evidence as to his self-defense claim without subjecting himself to impeachment by the prosecution?

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    Because they have all been racially profiled like this. All of them. No matter how good and decent they are. No matter how much education they have. How good a job they have. They have all been pulled over by police and questioned for being black in a white neighborhood. Have a conversation with any black male and you’ll hear the same stories over and over. It’s revolting.

    Also, there will be no riots. African American people never expected justice in this case. They may not like the outcome, but this is what they expected.

  • samizdat

    Maybe this link will work: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/14/opinion/granderson-zimmerman-verdict/index.html?iref=storysearch

    FFS, don’t read the comments. It’s bad enough here at Ablog.

  • Indigo

    Bringing back segregation are you?

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    I don’t believe that even in Florida a defendant can get a jury instruction on self-defense without adducing sufficient evidence to make it a fairly contestable issue. You can say it was self-defense all you want but the judge will not instruct the jury on it without some evidence to back up your assertion. In other words, the defendant has the initial burden of production even if he or she does not have the ultimate burden of persuasion on the question of self-defense.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    I will admit that from what I watched of the trial, people’s disgust with the legal profession is warranted. The prosecution didn’t do a very good job and the defense were like bad caricatures of sleazy attorneys.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    Why? He got away with it. People sent him over 300k for his defense. He’ll be getting plenty more from the same racist people who think racial profiling is okay.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    As opposed to the racist narrative pushed by Fox News? You are the one who looks ignorant, illogical and uneducated.

  • Egan Foote

    Based on what? Zimmerman was the only witness as to what happened, yet didn’t testify, instead relying on other sneaky means to introduce his story into the trial. Because he didn’t testify, the prosecution was unable to cross-examine and question the merits of Zimmerman’s story. Thus, we have one account from a person who has a self-interest in telling a story consistent with self-defense. The other witness was dead and unable to tell his account as to what happened.

    As a common sense matter, I would tend to believe that the person emboldened with confidence by having a gun, who was following an individual doing nothing wrong yet profiled as a criminal, was the one to start the altercation. Zimmerman’s inconsistent story as to his self-defense claim makes me further skeptical of his claims. Sadly, Florida law allowed him to make that self-defense claim without challenge.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    What other reason was there for following him? He was walking down the street eating skittles. He wasn’t doing anything illegal or even suspicious. There was no reason to follow him or stop him. Every black man I know has been harrassed like this. Of course it’s about race.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    The only person evidence of that is from Zimmerman who was following a man just for being black in a white neighborhood.

  • FLL

    Zimmerman’s recorded comments when he was talking to the radio dispatchers about the person he was tracking indicated that he was in a mental state to commit violence, and he did. The jury ignored the obvious, as juries will do if they have an axe to grind.

  • lynchie

    Ever heard of OJ Simpson. lost in a civil trial.

  • lynchie

    the dead kid didn’t get his day in court

  • samizdat

    Emotion has nothing to do with it. Zimmerman provoked the attack on himself. He was told by the police dispatcher to remove himself from the situation. All accounts about the attack on Martin were provided by Zimmerman. Zimmerman got away with murder, pure and simple.

  • TheOriginalLiz

    He was looking to use his gun that night, and he did, and got away with murder.

  • FLL

    That is not a “fact.” That is Zimmerman’s account. Obviously, Zimmerman could be lying. No one can take you seriously after calling Zimmerman’s claim a “fact” since there is no possibility of counter testimony from Martin.

  • lynchie

    He might have and if so he was defending himself from someone who was being aggressive. He was standing his ground. This would never have happened if Zimmerman wasn’t a racist

  • guest1

    No one can prove is wasn’t self defense, anti zimmerman arguments are purely emotional, which is why he walked…reasonable doubt that is was self defense.

  • samizdat

    Zimmerman was harassing Martin for doing nothing more than walking.I call that an attack. And how do we know Martin threw the first punch, on Zimmerman’s word? Amazing.

  • guest1

    Martin seems to have thrown the first punch not Zim

  • Badgerite

    It’s a thought. They really didn’t seem to put up much of a fight.

  • samizdat

    How in the bloody hell do you get ‘self-defense’ out of Zimmerman attacking Martin in the first place? Martin was merely passing through the neighborhood, and Zimmerman attacked him. Martin did what any person in that situation would have done: defend himself. The only reason he is dead is that Zimmerman came armed with a gun to a fist-fight–that he started.

    It appears that one can literally get away with murder in Florida.

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    Are you freakin’ kidding me? A dead kid with no legal representation and no opportunity to defend himself has basically been convicted in the minds of many people of aggravated assault and battery. Zimmerman killed the only person who could effectively challenge his account. The lesson from this seems to be that if you get into a serious physical altercation with someone and there are no other percipient witnesses, you might be better off, legally speaking, killing your opponent.

  • guest1

    Self Defense from the start, he was only put on trial to please the media

  • gaylib

    You obviously havent been paying attention to what’s been going on down here lately. Texas, Florida, North Carolina- they have all become rogue states that think they are not subject to our constitution. It is past time to remind these thugs they are not above the rule of law.

  • http://firefeeder.blogspot.com/ Stratplayer

    Really? Is that so? Please point to the evidence that conclusively establishes this as a “fact.” That’s Zimmerman’s account. Trayvon is dead and can’t tell his story. Successfully planting a reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury about your client’s guilt is not the same as proving the truth of his account of the incident. A jury can believe he’s guilty but still acquit under the reasonable doubt standard.

  • jomicur

    “George Zimmerman had no notion that the act of getting out of his car
    would lead to a physical confrontation with Trayvon Martin.” Um…the fact that the police told him not to do that might just have given him a tiny hint, doncha think?

  • Egan Foote

    The problem, as I see it, is with Florida’s criminal justice system. Unlike almost all other jurisdictions, the burden of proof for self-defense claims in Florida is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was NOT acting in self-defense (in most jurisdictions, the burden would be on Zimmerman to prove, on a preponderance of evidence standard, that he WAS acting in self-defense). Further compounding this absurd burden shifting is the fact that it allowed Zimmerman to choose not to testify, as would otherwise be necessary to make such a self-defense claim. Yet the defense was still able to submit Zimmerman’s side of the story through other evidentiary means (interviews with police, etc.), claims that were unimpeachable by the prosecution on cross-examination.

    As a legal matter, it is hard to blame the jury based on what they were presented; as a common sense matter, however, this is extremely troubling, as it essentially allowed a man to kill a young boy (who was the only other witness in this case) and then place the burden on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that such killing was not justified… all without being able to fully impeach Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense. What is most troubling is not that justice was not done under the law; it is that the law allowed this travesty to take place.

  • http://musephotos.wordpress.com/ GarySFBCN

    The facts demonstrate that racism, especially in judicial system outcomes, trumps the law.

  • Mike Rasor

    “I’m not entirely sure I understand this second defense. I think that may be saying that the other elements in the first definition – that you were doing something lawful, that you were exercising caution, and that you didn’t have an unlawful intent may not be necessary for this second definition of “excusable homicide” if it was the heat of passion and you were suddenly provoked to a significant degree. I wonder if this isn’t the reason the jury found Zimmerman not guilty.”

    John, I spent a lot of time on homicide when studying for the Florida bar exam. The second circumstance of excusable homicide do stand on their own per the Florida jury instructions and case law. This would not really be applicabe in this case because Zimmerman claimed self defense. For a manslaughter charge, the state need not prove the specifc intent to kill but rather the intent to commit an act whichs not excusable, justifiable or negligent. Thus in order to find a killing occured by accident or misfortune, it must have occured with no intent to commit the act which lead to death. By claiming defense, Zimmerman conceded that he intentionally shot Martin but maintained that shooting was excusable.
    This definition of excusable killing only really comes into play in a manslaughter charge where it is alleged the killing occured due to criminal negligence ( an unintentional act resulting from a gross disregard for human life). For example, a man comes home and found his wife in bed with another man and began packing a bag to leave. While packing he is arguing with the wife and he takes a gun to place in his bag. Before he puts the gun away the wife yells something at him and he turnsto face her pointing the gun in her general direction and it accidently goes off. In this instance pointing a loaded gun at someone would demonstrate a gross disregard for human life, but because the gun accidently discharged it would not have been fired intentionally. Because the husband had just dscoverd his wife in bed with another man, he could claim he was in the heat of passion and that since the act was unintentional, the killing was excusable. Had he claimed hintentionall fired the gun, the heat of passion defense only reduces his murer charge to a manslaughter charge.

  • Frisz

    Florida’s a different culture than the deep south. The deep south stops at about Gainesville, and below that is its own special type of batshit. I’ve lived in Gainesville and Orlando, and they’re completely different worlds.

  • hefetone

    Your are being sarcastic, right?

  • hefetone

    Uh, higher crime rates for one thing. Getting caught for another.

  • DJ

    Martin was the one who first “engaged” Zimmerman physically. That was the first point a law was broken. That is fact based on evidence disclosed at trial. Following and getting out of one’s car isn’t breaking any laws.

  • DJ

    All of your comments are based on nothing but speculations. You are the one spreading nonsense. Please cite from the trial where Zimmerman followed Martin only because of his race.

    Thankfully the jury based their decision on the facts of the case.

  • voltronforce

    Go figure an all white and hispanic jury in the deep south found the half hispanic half white thug not guilty.

  • cole3244

    about a week ago i wondered if the prosecution actually wanted to win this case, i was right, you have a rw gop gov who doesn’t want black citizens to vote and he intervenes and sends his hand picked team to prosecute this case, or i should say put a good face on the states case but not go far enough to actually win a guilty verdict, the rw and bigots are happy but i believe america will not be satisfied and this travesty of justice will energize the fair minded people in america to stronger action in the hopes of stopping this from happening again.
    how was the defense able to get an all white jury of women seated, because the prosecution was in bed with the defense from the beginning, this was a fix right from the start and the gov and his minions are celebrating along with the police in martins home town because its still open season on black men in florida and many states in america, the doj must get involved if minorities are to have any semblance of justice in america or are they to be considered second class citizens as the rw would have them.
    a competent prosecution would have resulted in a guilty verdict but thats not what the state of fla wanted and they got what they payed for, a railroad job plain and simple.

  • Badgerite

    For all those conservative whatevers who talked about the race card, go to this opinion piece and read the whole thing. Maybe you’ll get it.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/opinion/granderson-zimmerman-verdict/

    If you don’t get it after that, you are hopeless.

  • nicho

    Shorter version of Florida law. It’s excusable homicide if the killer is white and the victim is black.

  • Badgerite

    I stand corrected.

  • keirmeister

    Wow, that’s really stretching it. The kid had no weapons, was minding is own business, and did not provoke a confrontation. Considering his killer was armed, why aren’t you asking about Trayvon’s right of self defense?

  • flocculent

    I’ll swim in a blue cesspool over a red one every time:

    http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/201301080133

    “The simple fact is, if you live in a red state, the odds of your children dying of gun violence is 75 percent higher than if you live in a blue state,” Princeton neuroscientist Samuel Wang wrote. “It may help explain why people in red states want guns so much: It’s dangerous to live in a red state. They’ve got all those guns.”

  • MyrddinWilt

    What do you mean? There were only six of them on the jury.

  • Buford

    Real, sanctioned ‘Neighborhood Watch’ volunteers know that their job is just that… to watch and report… and they are trained not to engage directly. In Zimmerman’s case, the cops were already en route and the dispatcher told him not to intervene, but he was so concerned about ‘them’ always getting away that he took matters into his own hands.

    Nothing disputes any of that.

  • http://buddybest.tripod.com/index.html BuddyNovinski

    It means “chamberlain” (French) or “room man” (Anglo-Saxon), something of a butler.

  • Buford

    Some really snark-deaf people here…

  • flocculent

    Reality check time. Eight break-ins, “several” of which had been linked to young black men. Several. Over a period of 14 months. In a racially mixed neighborhood.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

    In that part of the country, the suspect is always a young black male. Sanford ran Jackie Robinson out of town. I guess Zimmerman saved them the effort with Trayvon Martin.

  • Badgerite

    Ok, now you are just being an offensive idiot.

  • dula

    True, Zimmerman was negligent in getting out of car and confronting someone he believed was a thug/criminal…negligent, as in homicide.

  • Badgerite

    No. The legal standard to find that a ‘murder’ occurred would be beyond a reasonable doubt. Or did you miss that part of O’Mera’s final arguments? Beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean no doubt. But I have to admit, I did not buy the prosecutors argument that Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because he wanted to. I also don’t believe that Trayvon Martin said
    “Tonight you’re going to die” or ” You got me.” That is all just a little too convenient. I think he may have imagined that himself and it stuck in his brain as what happened. Established by the testimony at trial — Zimmerman was a bit of a wimp( no bad connotations here, I am a wimp too) who could not physically defend himself. So he carried a gun. He probably was in fear for his life. But it probably would not take an actual threat to his life to put him in fear for his life.

  • TheOriginalLiz

    The wannabe LEO was looking for someone to kill and the kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time. How long before the GOP/NRA hails Zimmerman as their new hero and Florida as their utopia?

  • Badgerite

    Sorry you feel that way. This trial was meant to show that Trayvon Martin’s life did mean something to the larger community. Not just his family. That when a man takes the life of an unarmed young man, he has to answer for it in a court of law. But all that can be offered is condolences and his parents day in court. After that the law and the facts of the case take over.

  • lilyannerose

    Makes me absolutely sick to think that an adult can follow a kid confront him – get into a fist fight with that kid and then shoot that child. Zimmerman makes the second child killer to get off in Florida. Disgusting.

  • Badgerite

    I don’t know that that is the case. You only need a probability that Zimmerman acted negligently. The jury could well come to a different conclusion in a civil trial.

  • Badgerite

    The law served. Everybody got to have their day in court. That is the best you can expect.

  • Badgerite

    You seem to have a hang up about race. Again, 17 year old boy armed with skittles and a can of iced tea dead on the ground after being pursued through the neighborhood by the ‘neighborhood watch’ who was carrying a loaded weapon. Said neighborhood watch was seen entering police station after incident without any apparent marks on him. Would you be fine with that if it was your son laying dead?

  • Badgerite

    If he had no notion that the acting of getting out of his car would lead to a physical confrontation with Trayvon Martin then why was he carrying a gun? Why, exactly, was he an armed neighborhood watch? If you are armed, you are expecting or preparing for trouble.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    I would also be interested in your definition of white.

  • Badgerite

    The reports of theft in the neighborhood that he was ‘watching’ implicated some young black men. He settled on Trayvon Martin as suspicious because he was a young black man. If he had been a young white man, he probably wouldn’t have noticed him as it did not fit the description of what he had been told to look for.

  • gaylib

    Wow. The racist trolls are out in force tonight. It should be obvious by now that the American south is a wasteland of immoral, self entitled, bigots. It is no longer safe for minorities, women, or gay people. Time to finish the job that was never completed in 1865. Time yo occupy the south and force them to be civilized. They obviously are too barbaric to govern themselves.

  • Badgerite

    How do you know he was guilty of anything other than going to the store while black. Where is your evidence? How do people get off with so much biased speculation????

  • Badgerite

    I can guarantee you, that is not the way it went at all.

  • Badgerite

    This is true, but without this trial, I don’t think his life would have been worth a plug nickle. So if the conservocreeps would quit griping about the fact that there was a trial and acting as if Trayvon Martin did something wrong as opposed to something stupid, like Zimmerman, that would be nice.

  • Badgerite

    No, but he was definitely reckless and I do not think it was ‘God’s plan’ for Trayvon Martin to be killed by him that night. If you cannot physically defend yourself in an altercation without using a gun, then don’t go following people around. That is asking for trouble no matter what your motive in following them is.

  • Badgerite

    Defend themselves from what? A kid with some skittles and a can of iced tea?

  • Badgerite

    I can tell you what they were thinking. ‘Madam prosecutor, you overcharged.’

  • Badgerite

    Yes, we are all jealous of deeply intelligent people like you.

  • Badgerite

    Drug laws.

  • Badgerite

    Ahh! And there it is. So Blacks are all about ‘free stuff’, ‘drugs’, and ‘destitute conditions’. And pimps. You must be the local minority outreach representative of the GOP.

  • Linda

    He’s not Jewish. He is Catholic of Peruvian and German heritage. Not every name that ends with -man is Jewish. Zimmerman is a German name.

  • Badgerite

    I’m pretty sick of you, The jury clearly decided this case on the facts presented at trial by both sides and applied the law. The prosecution could not overcome the simple fact that Trayvon Martin landed punches on Zimmerman and had banged his head on the concrete. And they went for two big of a charge. But exactly what do you not understand about the picture of a 17 year old boy in his dad’s own neighborhood dead on the ground with a can of ice tea and some skittles. And a killer walking into a police station with no apparent marks on him of any kind. Personally, I still don’t believe a lot of what Zimmerman said. But legally, I have to agree with the jury. Conflicting credible testimony is almost reasonable doubt per se. And the fact that Zimmerman had physical injuries, even of a minor nature, would be enough to tip the balance. He is still and certainly was that night, a reckless asshole with a gun. The boy behaved recklessly also. But he didn’t have a gun. Just his fists. And as someone pointed out before, imagine the outcome if, when he encountered Martin, Zimmerman had said immediately, ‘Hi, I’m George Zimmerman and I’m doing neighborhood watch’.

  • Jafafa Hots

    “George Zimmerman had no notion that the act of getting out of his car
    would lead to a physical confrontation with Trayvon Martin. There was
    not one piece of evidence to suggest this.”

    This is a truly idiotic statement.
    Zimmerman considered Martin a threat, “these jerks always get away,” etc. as he said.
    He was following someone he (based on race) felt was a criminal.
    He was armed while following him.
    He ignored police orders to not follow him.

    If you are self-appointed “neighborhood watch,” doing your self-appointed duty with a gun and you spot and follow someone you think is a criminal, you have no notion that getting out while pursuing your “suspect” might lead to a confrontation?

    Nonsense.
    Stop making such transparently ridiculous assertions, it only serves to reveal your true motives.

  • [email protected]

    How do you know Trayvon was innocent? Were you there?
    I know I was not? How do people get off with so much biased speculation?

  • Leslie Mae Griffith

    Is scumbag a race? Maybe you are one.

  • Leslie Mae Griffith

    Hope he doesn’t shoot another innocent kid.

  • DJ

    It was self-defense, stupid. Profiling is systemic issue conducted on a institutional level. This case was about one guy on neighborhood watch on one night. It’s not possible to conclude any instance of profiling based on this limited event. Had the prosecution been able to show that George Zimmerman let three white teenagers pass only to follow Trayvon Martin or if the “Neighborhood Watch Manual” stated that volunteers were to only follow black teenagers then they’d have something resembling profiling. They had neither.

    George Zimmerman had no notion that the act of getting out of his car would lead to a physical confrontation with Trayvon Martin. There was not one piece of evidence to suggest this. All of you that suggest that he was wrong in doing so are only playing Monday morning quarterbacks.

    It’s time for Al Sharpton to find a new windmill to tilt.

  • Badgerite

    This is the stupidest post I have ever read at this sight. Nobody said he was guilty for sure but as reported the facts of this case certainly seemed and I think did warrant greater scrutiny by the public and by the law. That is what the ‘mob’ and Trayvon Martin’s parents were asking for, after all. Not a lynching but a court trial. And let me explain to you the hell ‘GZ’s’ life would have been without one. Or hadn’t that occurred to you. Zimmerman got his day in court as well as Trayvon Martin’s parents. That’s what courts are for, you idiot. All sides got to present their evidence in a fair and public forum. And that is how we move on as a community from these things. And it would have been absolutely impossible to do that with the information presented in the press and the fact that an unarmed 17 year old boy lay dead, Add the race factor and it absolutely had to go to court. And if it was expensive and agonizing for ‘GZ’, all the better. He was hardly blameless in that boys death. Additionally, I guarantee you that the next time some neighborhood watch gets told by the police, not to intervene, they will listen. Gun or no gun.

  • robthom

    The lib/race card agenda is not an agenda based on truths.

    They’ve got no use for those at all.

  • robthom

    Hey look, a trayvon fan playing race cards.

    How fascinating.

  • robthom

    He’s neither.

    He’s Jewish and Venezuelan you ignorant scumbag.

  • robthom

    All of the hate and racism on the trayvon supporters part.

    I agree its appalling.

    Hopefully Zim keeps himself strapped, and if anyone tries to assault him again that he blows their brains out also.

    I have no problem with killing when its justified.

  • robthom

    But there was evidence.

    All proving that there was no murder.

  • AntSWeb

    The travesty is the illogical thinking. Everyone jumped on the race card. Those jumping on the bandwagon have NOT considered WHAT IF ZIMMERMAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH? From day 1 when that race card was played by the Martins attorney’s, before the evidence was presented, you all had already found Zimmerman guilty. That is a fact and it’s a most disgusting fact. Listening to a legal analyst on MSNBC, they contradicted themselves by saying, “GZ had neighbors and friends that were black and they even testified. What made GZ look at Trayvon?” And now, you have politicians jumping on the bandwagon for votes – the black vote. You all aren’t logically thinking this out..Trayvon had a burglary tool at school with womens jewlery, he was suspended for defacing school with graffiti, he called women bytches, he texted about buying drugs and buying guns. The Martins now admit that he was suspended for having pot after having previously lied about it. But they point fingers at GZ and say he’s a liar.

    Plus it’s not logical that the Martins attorney, Jesse Jackson, AlSharpton, and the rest of the mob are now blaming the Jury, stating the system is racist, the prosecution didn’t present the case well. Keep making excuses and finding reasons to point the finger at GZ because it continues to make you all look ignorant and illogical and uneducated.

    Plus it’s not logical that the Martins attorney, Jesse Jackson, AlSharpton, and the rest of the mob are now blaming the Jury, stating the system is racist, the prosecution didn’t present the case well. Keep making excuses and finding reasons to point the finger at GZ because it continues to make you all look ignorant and illogical and uneducated.

  • robthom

    Indeed, if everyone would just stay in their cars and not defend themselves or their property then every hoodlum would get away with it.

    But maybe everybody doesn’t want to live in the slums of new york and california.

  • robthom

    Why should it mean more to everyone else then it does to themselves.

    You’re personal value comes from within.

  • robthom

    He’s not white, he’s Jewish.

  • robthom

    People like you are why every blue state is a crime infested cesspool.

    You’re jealous becasue you never had the balls to protect your friends and family from crime.

  • robthom

    I also find it quite humorous when another nitwit soldier gets killed trying to kill people he has no real quarrel with for halliburtons profit.

  • robthom

    The liberals have black people hooked on race cards and free stuff like drug dealers.

    And then they pimp them in the destitute condition that they put them for political points.

  • robthom

    On the contrary, the race-card crew finally lost.

    People are getting sick of you.

  • anthonymeans

    you mean it could not be proven since there were no witnesses. murder is certainly against the law.

  • anthonymeans

    if they murder black people they do.

  • Zee Flynn

    He’ll go into hiding with Casey Anthony

  • HelenRainier

    John, thanks for posting this and attempting to clarify what Florida law states and the intent of such law. I do not agree with this verdict in any way, shape, or form.

  • mike

    it is not against the law to get out of your car and follow someone, and police dispatch did not order him they suggested he not follow TM, and even if they would have a dispatcher’s “orders” do not have to be followed unlike a cops. GZ may have been in the wrong on many accounts but he was not against the law and was thus found not guilty,

  • maggie

    Justice served.

  • Indigo

    It was a show trial with a defense based on theatrical emotionalism and a defense based on race-bating. Race-bating won.

  • Octavion

    The cynicism and rhetoric from the black community is bewildering. I can’t believe blacks are buying Sharpton’s crapola.

    Sharpton…trying to calm the smoldering fury of the blacks with threats of civil action? Really?! Does Sharpton think blacks are this stupid?

    A civil suit against Zimmerman will end in failure, just like the criminal case. Where does the black community go from there? Will they riot for Sharpton’s sake?

  • Jan Phillips

    I don’t think so. The jury instructions make it difficult to convict. Don’t sell them short. I don’t agree with the verdict at all, but it’s not as simplistic as you state.

  • Jan Phillips

    As I followed this case, I was appalled at how much hate there is in America. Sad. RIP Trayvon. As for Zimmerman, he will always be looking over HIS shoulder. Poetic justice is better than none at all.

  • Octavion

    Fat White Woman 3: what’s for lunch?

  • Octavion

    Speaking for yourself, of course…

  • Martin Hristoforov

    yes only idiots do their civic duty to their country and community. i still laugh every time i see a soldier dying for their country. what a scrub!

  • 808independent

    You usually don’t want your fate decided by six people who are not smart enough to get out of jury duty, but in this case, it worked out for GZ. There is no justice in America for anyone but a lucky few. Please ask yourself why America is only 4% of the world’s population, yet holds 25% of the world’s incarcerated.

  • Martin Hristoforov

    yea, the klan always defends the white mexicans.

  • LowerAL251 .

    Damn he should have stayed in the car if you’re fearing for your life/neighborhood don’t follow/approach the suspect..and I’m not surprised by this NOT GUILTY verdict the Klan having a field day with this one..prayers goes out to the Martin family.

  • Martin Hristoforov

    yea i can imagine how the whole thing went in the jury room:
    White Woman 1: So, some black kid got shot by a white mexican, I guess not guilty.
    White Woman 2-6: Yep.
    White Woman 1: K, lets chill around for 16 hours and maybe ask a question so it all looks legit.
    White Woman 2-6: Sounds good.

  • Martin Hristoforov

    damn those white mexicans!

  • Jetik Jetik

    Racist

  • Jetik Jetik

    Are

  • Jetik Jetik

    You

  • mirror
  • theronbothunter

    When God created Mankind he made certain types self-replicating or being continuously
    reborn. So a Million years from now. Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Collectivists or Hive Minds (aka Socialists), and Homosexuals, will always be reborn back into the Norman Human population. Genocide, Civil War or even Racial Warfare can erase a whole race, a nationality, a religious group or
    even the downsizing of the human race, but the Socialists’ agenda can never act
    against the will of God. Out of these renewable types only the Homosexuals are
    not evil. So there is no reason to victimize the only non-evil renewable type
    that God made sure we would always have with us, no matter how strange we find
    them. They are here to stay. But God in his infinite wisdom allowed for combinations
    or mutations to exist over and over again. Today we have Sociopathic Socialists
    ruling halve the world. The Socialists have sympathizers and those too are now
    our enemies.

    http://whitegirlbleedalot.com/?gclid=CNHmjYrTpbgCFSIV7AodIEUAsA

    http://www.infowars.com/new-black-panthers-call-for-vigilante-justice-in-trayvon-martin-case/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/us/07rights.html?_r=0http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/us/07rights.html?_r=0

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/panthers-this-time-were-going-out-to-whiteys-suburbs-and-burning-down-his-community_07112013

    THE RONBOT HUNTER

    ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

  • ErikKC

    It never should have gone to trial. It only did because of public and political pressure. That is the true miscarriage of justice. Now, the NAACP wants Federal civil rights charges brought. That is how they got two of the cops that beat Rodney King. Of course, in that case, there actually was some evidence.

  • Ty Morgan

    In these United States of America, a young black man’s life means nothing to anyone. Never has, never will.

  • DonewithDems

    Zimmerman never should have gotten out of his car. If he hadn’t Trayvon would be alive. Zimmerman should be held accountable for at least that. He was told by police dispatch not to confront Trayvon. He ignored that. What in the H*## was this jury thinking. Aw yes, it was an all white jury in Florida. So does this mean that any armed white man can shoot any unarmed black man and say it was self-defense in Florida? You bet.

  • caphillprof

    Six white women decided it’s okay to kill a black teenager. African Americans tend to lose in Florida. http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing

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