Had Obama lost to McCain, we’d have lost on DOMA yesterday

For all the (deserved, I’d argue) blowback we’ve given President Obama over the years, on gay rights especially, one thing is incontrovertible. Had Barack Obama lost to John McCain in 2008, we’d have lost on DOMA at the Supreme Court yesterday.

The Supreme Court’s decision in US v. Windsor, striking down the Defense of Marriage Act, was 5-4, with Justices Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor siding with the majority (i.e., us).

Had Obama lost to McCain in 2008, President Get Off My Lawn would have put Republican judges in to replace David Souter and John Paul Stevens. And I seriously doubt Justice Giuliani and Chief Justice Hatch would have been very friendly to Adam & Steve.

That’s not to say that Barack Obama walks on water. Anyone who’s a regular reader of this blog knows that we do not shy from taking on Democrats, especially the President, when we think they need taking on. But I also believe in giving credit where credit is due. And without those two appointments to the Supreme Court, we’d very likely be looking at two more decades of DOMA, at least.

And the credit goes beyond President Obama. You deserve credit too for voting for a Democrat in 2008 and 2012.

I know that President Obama has been a disappointment to a chunk of our readers. But yesterday’s DOMA decision (and Prop 8 as well) shows the importance of elections, and the importance of the courts. It’s tough getting people to focus on the courts. Especially as an election strategy. At least in my experience, working with a number of progressive groups in town over the years, using “who do you want to pick the next Supreme Court justice?” just isn’t a winning get-out-the-vote strategy. It should be. But it’s not.

Yesterday was another reminder that it should be. As was the Supreme Court’s disastrous decision gutting the key enforcement mechanism of the Voting Rights Act the day before. Elections matter. Courts matter. Republicans get that.  Democrats are starting to.

So I appreciate the concerns about drones, about the Keystone Pipeline, and about the NSA.  But none of that changes the fact that had John McCain won in 2008, gay people in this country would have been crying tears of sadness yesterday morning instead of tears of joy.  Don’t get me wrong – that doesn’t make those other concerns invalid.  But it does mean that it still was worth electing a Democrat over a Republican.

Having said that, we owe another president a bit of thanks too.

Guess who appointed Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, the judge who wrote the majority opinion in the Supreme Court’s three most important gay rights victories: Romer v. Evans; Lawrence v. Texas; and now US v. Windsor?

Yeah, that’s right ;-)


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • samizdat

    I don’t think anyone with a conscience can forget that picture.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Our generation saw it from a fox hole, this generation sees it on UTube-

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I’m not upset at you, nor sticking my head in the sand. You are right! I have never forgotten that picture of a little, naked Vietnam girl running terrified down a rural road.

  • Ted Hayes

    Had Barack Obama lost to John McCain, DOMA would have been irrelevant. By this time, Old John would have had us so deep in war that the world would probably no longer exist.

  • dcinsider

    :)

  • Sweetie

    I posted what I did to rebut the smug posts that mock Republicans as being specially amoral and dangerous. The amorality goes around, as does the dangerousness. Partisan blinders only serve both. I am no fan of either party. I don’t know how anyone who considers himself/herself moral can be content to be a member of a party with a leader who drone bombed an innocent teen, particularly after joking about doing just that. That also doesn’t address the refusal to abide by a foundational requirement of the rule of law: habeas corpus.

    Both parties have earned my contempt. It’s hard for me to celebrate marriage on top of the body of a teenager, one the public conveniently refuses to acknowledge. It’s also hard for me to celebrate marriage in a nation that cheered pumping bullets into an unarmed man (after making up a false story) and dumping his body into the ocean — complete with TV propaganda photos and the like to make it seem more action-packed. What happened to habeas corpus? What happened to trials in open court? Marriage is a great thing, but it’s not enough to live on. We need morality and the rule of law, too.

  • Sweetie

    Move on?

    We’ll be able to move on when something is done to rectify it. So far, I haven’t seen anything of the sort.

    A good start would be to not paper over it. This isn’t just about the murder of this kid, bad as that it. It’s also about a mindset, a paradigm — in which apparently murder of that sort is permissible. That goes outward toward others in the conceivable future. That is not something any rational person can “move on” from (ignore).

    People may not want to be bothered. People may not want to trouble themselves with the inconvenience of confronting this present problem. That doesn’t surprise me at all. But, this problem exists and will continue to exist until something is done. Getting upset at me won’t change that, nor will sticking one’s head into sand.

  • Sweetie

    Of course it’s offensive. That’s the point.

  • Bill_Perdue

    I did. I disagree with FLL’s arrogance in trying to change the discussion every time he loses arguments. All these questions are connected.

    Those who voted for Obama voted for drone attacks on civilians, including Obama’s racist attacks on four American civilians – Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir
    Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi and Jude Mohammed. It’s disingenuous to say you oppose mass murder, racist wars of aggression and racist drone attacks when you voted for them. Everyone knew that Obama was going to escalate in 2008 and stay longer than he promised in 2012 because he said so.

  • Bill_Perdue

    FLL is squirming and doing everything he can to deflect from the fact that he’s either abysmally ignorant or a liar.

    Please respond to the following.

    “Democrats keep a mercenary army in Iraq. That’s what you voted for.

    Obama has ordered the racist murders of four American citizens – Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi and Jude Mohammed. That’s what you voted for.

    “He” Obama “he has stated repeatedly that he wants them out by the end of 2014″. You’re a liar or addled. “Afghan President Hamid Karzai said the U.S. could use nine bases in Afghanistan after the withdrawal of most combat forces next year, his first such public offer, clearing a hurdle for the U.S. to maintain a long-term military presence in key parts of the country.

    “We are in delicate and serious negotiations with the United States,” Mr. Karzai told students at Kabul University on Thursday. “America has its demands, and Afghanistan has its own demands and interests too.” he has stated repeatedly that he wants them out by the end of 2014.” http://online.wsj.com/article/

    edited and still waiting for FLL to refute

    “Despite statements by Vice President Joe Biden, the State Department is about to begin formal negotiations over the extension of U.S. troops past 2014, a top State Department official said Tuesday. … Last week, U.S. and Afghan negotiators met in Kabul to talk about the Bilateral Security Agreement that will govern the extension of U.S. troops past 2014, when President Barack Obama said the combat mission in Afghanistan will end and the U.S. will complete the transition of the entire country to Afghan government control.” http://thecable.foreignpolicy….

    “Some 10,000 US troops will remain in Afghanistan after NATO combat operations end at the end of 2014, US media reports said Sunday. The plan is in line with recommendations from General John Allen, commander of ISAF forces in Afghanistan. The administration of President Barack Obama aims to keep around 10,000 US troops in Afghanistan after formal combat operations in that country end in 2014, The Wall Street Journal reported late Sunday.”http://www.france24.com/en/201….”

  • Bill_Perdue

    I know the feeling that karmanot is expressing.

    During the Vietnam war I stopped watching the evening news because I got sick and tired of looking at children burnt to a crisp and at the maimed bodies of GIs and National Liberation Front and Vietnam People’s Army soldiers. I’d leave the room when it came on.

    I react just as viscerally to photos of the victim’s of Obama’s mad dog warmongering.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Both parties are on an irreversible right wing course in terms of policy. Both will become more and more authoritarian and oppressive.

    That fact is a recognition by both of them that the radicalization and the reaction of working people and youth to drastic cuts in our standard of living and austerity are going to engender rage.

    That rage was expressed by OWS and at Madison and is sweeping back and forth globally – Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Tunis, Greece, Spain, Portugal, England, Brazil and soon in China and again here.

  • Leota2

    Stop crying. Its unbecoming.

  • ezpz

    I see what you’re saying, though I don’t necessarily agree with it.

    I have not read the entire thread. Actually, I only read a few comments from it, so perhaps I missed something about the context in which Sweetie made the post.

    Since playing the ‘what if’ game implies that we can be certain of outcomes from things that might/would have happened, but did NOT happen; therefore, we can assume that actual outcomes are direct results of what DID happen. It’s far from that simple. In fact, that’s a gross oversimplification, imo.

    In the ‘if/then’ context, this thread seems (to me) to be a more tangential exercise in the hypothetical realm, which can be pretty broad, and it seems that the ‘what if’ question can be answered with a number of topics and examples – one being that *if* Obama had not been elected, *then* maybe this young man would still be alive. There’s no way we can know this, of course, and please understand that I’m not indulging in this exercise. I’m simply suggesting that it could be taken more broadly than DOMA, though I know that John intended it to be specific to DOMA.

    And I certainly don’t want to diminish or make light of this major victory for the LGBT community. I’m not at all suggesting that other topics are more or less important. Just that when we indulge in hypotheticals, the possibilities are endless and results depend on more variables than because of a, we have b.

    It reminds me of the move “Sliding Doors”.
    Speaking of tangents, it seems I’ve gone off on one.

    Anyway, to repeat what I said yesterday about these victories:
    Mazel-Tov!

    Oh, and for the record, I did not downvote your comment.

  • Bill_Perdue

    There is no evidence. Obama is staying in Iraq and Afghanistan, just like McCain would have. Stop lying.

  • FLL

    From your reply above: “There is no evidence at all that McCain is more of a mad dog warmonger than Obama.”

    No, Perdue, you’re lying.

  • Bill_Perdue

    I never defend Republican or Democrats, you’re lying.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Your replies are either lies or you’re completely uninformed. See below where you lied and said Obama is getting out of Afghanistan next year and implied that the US mercenaries are not Obama’s killers in Iraq.

  • FLL

    Much wishful thinking on this thread regarding the Republican Party, which at this point is pretty much a rump party. Ignoring the substantive arguments, I’ll offer a very practical one. The Republican supporters on the thread are doomed because of demographics. Young voters coming of age and Hispanics are an ever-increasing share of the electorate:

    (1) In 2012, young voters voted for Obama 60-36, which leaves a precious about 3% for the (rather conservative) Libertarian Party, about 1% for the Green Party and about .00000000001% for the Socialist/Workers Party. (The link is here.)

    (2) In 2012, Hispanic voters voted for Obama 71-27, which leaves a precious 2% for the various third parties noted above. (The
    link is here.)

    You are doomed, O Republican boosters. Doomed! Well, you asked for a ray of sunshine in your day. Your welcome. Oh, just for fun, here’s the “moderate” Republican candidate, Chris Christie (approved by Ann Coulter), ignoring the vast majority of American on marriage equality today:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/chris-christie-gay-marriage_n_3509389.html

  • Bill_Perdue

    Democrats keep a mercenary army in Iraq. That’s what you voted for.

    Obama has ordered the racist murders of four American citizens – Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi and Jude Mohammed. That’s what you voted for.

    “He” Obama “he has stated repeatedly that he wants them out by the end of 2014″. You’re a liar or addled. “Afghan President Hamid Karzai said the U.S. could use nine bases in Afghanistan after the withdrawal of most combat forces next year, his first such public offer, clearing a hurdle for the U.S. to maintain a long-term military presence in key parts of the country.

    “We are in delicate and serious negotiations with the United States,” Mr. Karzai told students at Kabul University on Thursday. “America has its demands, and Afghanistan has its own demands and interests too.” he has stated repeatedly that he wants them out by the end of 2014.” http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324244304578472800772951488.html

    “Despite statements by Vice President Joe Biden, the State Department is about to begin formal negotiations over the extension of U.S. troops past 2014, a top State Department official said Tuesday. … Last week, U.S. and Afghan negotiators met in Kabul to talk about the Bilateral Security Agreement that will govern the extension of U.S. troops past 2014, when
    President Barack Obama said the combat mission in Afghanistan will end and the U.S. will complete the transition of the entire country to Afghan government control.” http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/16/state_department_official_negotiations_to_extend_us_troop_presence_in_afghanistan_s

    “Some 10,000 US troops will remain in Afghanistan after NATO combat operations end at the end of 2014, US media reports said Sunday. The plan is in line with recommendations from General John Allen, commander of ISAF forces in Afghanistan. The administration of President Barack Obama aims to keep around 10,000 US troops in Afghanistan after formal combat operations in that country end in 2014, The Wall Street Journal reported late Sunday.” http://www.france24.com/en/20121126-10000-us-troops-remain-afghanistan-past-2014-isaf-nato-withdrawal

    Really,if as usual, you’re clueless, just don’t comment.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    My vision: McCain is a sticker and the world world his Post-It.

  • FLL

    I’m not accusing you of being a Republican, registered or otherwise. I’m noting the obvious fact that you scream blue murder each and every time anyone criticizes the Republicans. It’s a pattern too obvious to ignore, regardless of whether you vote socialist in actual elections.

  • FLL

    Your arguments rely on nothing but unsupported opinion and psychic reading. Over and over. Just take a look at my replies to your comments. You refuse to formulate an intelligent argument, and instead, just shout your opinions. That is lame.

  • FLL

    To keep private contractors who are U.S. citizens out of Iraq, you would have to make it illegal under U.S. law for a U.S. citizen to work there. U.S. citizens are free to work in almost any country, maybe with the exception of North Korea and Cuba. No president could make that illegal or they would be condemned for restricting the rights of American citizens. So you first point fails, if it’s a criticism of what Obama hasn’t done to stop private citizens from working in Iraq.

    As far as your second point, about how long “Obama wants to keep troops in Afghanistan,” he has stated repeatedly that he wants them out by the end of 2014. You’re indulging in psychic reading here.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I realize that it would get flack.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Just like Obama.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Lame. As usual.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Do try to keep up, I’m a socialist and consistently oppose both parties of war, union busting and racist murders of US citizens, all the things you must admire or you wouldn’t vote for them.

    Now please stop lying about me being a Republican. It’s almost as disgusting as accusing me of being Democrat.

  • Bill_Perdue

    US troops, in the form of a mercenary army, are still in Iraq. Obama wants to keep troops in Afghanistan indefinitely.

    Nicho was talking about Obama, and I referenced that. You’re getting confused. People who pretend to be against war and vote for Democrats (or Republicans) are often confused.

  • Bill_Perdue

    There are no reasons to come to such a conclusion.

  • FLL

    And you consistently try to find excuses for Republicans that don’t pass muster. The question John posed was about the Supreme Court appointments of Obama vs. McCain. How does Clinton signing DOMA change John’s argument about Supreme Court appointments? It doesn’t.

  • FLL

    I’m not saying that Bill Perdue is not aware of reality. I’m saying that his argumentation skills are lacking and I’m looking to see some improvement in those skills. (Please see my comments above.) Improvement?! Please?! Any time soon?!

  • FLL

    Your statement about how smart McCain is or whether he’s too smart to have started a war with Iran is unsupported opinion. People who use McCain’s own statements to come to a conclusion are using support for their opinions.

  • FLL

    Someone asked him how long American troops should stay in Iraq. He answered 100 years. Reasonable people take someone’s statements, such as the “100 years statement” and the “bomb Iran” statement that Nicho quote, and make a conclusion from that. You are being unreasonable by doing nothing more than stating you unsupported opinion: “Not he wouldn’t have” or “He’s too smart to do that.” I’m just looking for something more than a statement of unsupported opinion.

  • FLL

    Karmanot suggested it was offensive. I don’t think it’s offensive; I’m against drone warfare as are most others. But it might be off-topic. Sweetie’s reminder belongs on a thread that has something to do with warfare or foreign policy. This thread is about losing DOMA with McCain’s picks on the Supreme Court, which is also a valid topic, at least for a lot of readers.

  • ezpz

    Ha.

  • ezpz

    I disagree. It should not be forgotten, and if showing it again and again reminds us, so be it.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Starr was/is a colossal asshole, who, unfortunately moved to our neck of the woods.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Thank you!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Bravo! Exactly. Giving Obozo any credit for this is ridiculous. As far as I can see Barrack is still evolving in his ‘ick’ factor.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “People need to grow up and see the big picture.” And you are the “be all and end all” of adults I suppose. Your condescending BS makes moot your homespun wisdom.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    McCain is a fuck up and mental midget, who without being military royalty would have been cashiered out of the air force in time. Even the War College gave his thesis a C- minority report.His reckless disregard for discipline and orders found him shot down and made a lifetime national hero for his stupidity. It infuriates me to think of all the other genuine POW heroes, who didn’t have the good luck to be bought and sold to a beer princess for a wedge into Republican lobbying. John McCain is a disgrace and personifies what is wrong with this nation’s congress.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    You didn’t know Reagan was senile? We saw the beginning of it when he was Governor. Nancy had to often remind him where he was and whose University he was destroying or why those mentally ill homeless were being unpleasant on the street of California cities.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    It’s like saying, I live inside the beltway, therefore I don’t have a clue.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Schmidt, Rachel’s BFE, is someone to watch. If there is any hope at all for the Flaccid Old Party it will come from moderates like him.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    And if Carter didn’t have a peanut for a brain he might have been a Lyndon Johnson! Among Carter’s worst flops was not supporting the ERA.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    If god were a woman, Jacob’s ladder would be a stepping stool.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Yep, IF men gave birth, abortion would be written as a given in the Amendments.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Rarely agree with you, but love that icon!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    It is soooo obvious and yet, we still get the lesser evil argument over and over and over. McSenile LOST!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Sweetie, you are not the only one outraged by the assassination of that innocent boy and his friend by Obama, but showing it over and over is offensive.

  • Derek Bolin

    This isn’t necessarily true. Had McCain won, it’s unlikely that Stevens and Souter would have retired. Liberal Justices tend to retire when a Democrat is in office and conservative Justices retire when Republicans are in office.

  • Sweetie
  • Sweetie

    He was a star in his own mind.

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ Papa Bear

    And it seems to be working…
    :-(

  • Number Six

    War is McCain’s hammer and the whole world’s his nail.

  • nicho

    Eat enough of their horse meat meatballs and you will be.

  • DrRandyG

    And if my grandmother had had wheels, she’d have been a wagon.

  • dcinsider

    Well, why was he working for McCain and Palin (who he pushed on to the ticket) in the first place? And how is it that one gay person who sold out his community, and the nation, in 2008, and is now working for gay marriage, is proof of anything about conservatives or McCain’s inner circle.

    It’s like saying, I shop at Ikea, therefore I’m Swedish.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Nader, Bush and the Supremes didn’t lose or steal the election.

    Gore, running on Clintons record, lost it in Florida because there are no significant differences between Democrats and Republicans and people increasingly understand that the race to the bottom between lesser evils is a fools errand.

  • nicho

    And?

  • dcinsider

    Steve is gay.

  • http://www.americablog.com/ Naja pallida

    That’s really been the thrust of Republican politicking for the last 10 years or so. They’ve been pushing hard to gain control of state legislatures, and that’s really what much of the redistricting has been about. There’s a reason why democracy has been suspended in Michigan, why women’s rights have been obliterated in many states, why voter suppression is so widespread, why laws that codify discrimination have been passed in AZ, GA, etc. Because Republicans control the legislatures entirely in many states, and even when they still get hung up by Democrats, or the people, they just change the rules (or ignore the rules) and push through their agenda anyway, like they’ve done in WI and TX.

  • D

    Also hate it that everyone seems to be celebrating this Ted Olsen+David
    Boies tandem, because they represented two sides of Bush v. Gore, but
    their case in the SCOTUS would have had higher likelihood of getting
    a favorable ruling had Bush not succeeded in stealing that election!
    Roberts and Alito!

  • Bill_Perdue

    He’s too smart to get caught like Reagan, who was senile when he was elected.

  • Bill_Perdue

    From a place high above the Democrat and Republican swamp you swim in, a place where honest people oppose warmongering, union busting, mass murderers and anti-Social Security lap dogs of the rich like the Democrats and the Republicans.

    That’s your preferred political environment and you won’t get much of a response inviting leftists to join you. We’ll continue to build mass movements for change to force people like you and Democrat friends to accept equality, end war and respect the Bill of Rights.

  • http://www.americablog.com/ Naja pallida

    The one where John McCain has advocated attacking Iran, was among the first pushing for intervention in Libya, wants us to go into Syria, still thinks the war in Iraq was a good idea. The guy has war on the brain, and can’t seem to shake it.

  • nicho

    We are pleased that you do.

  • http://buddybest.tripod.com/index.html BuddyNovinski

    I agree. We had that break, then along came Uncle Clarence.

  • dcinsider

    We agree.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    There’s already a push to do something about our not-ban/kinda-ban here in NM. Gov. Martinez wants to put a state constitutional amendment on the ballot for public vote (always the least likely to succeed), whereas the pro-equality forces want the legislature to simply vote on a law. Or for the courts to rule that our existing constitution and laws should override the single bulwark in existence against marriage equality, which is one law that defines the marriage license application form.

    Taken literally, the plain language of NM state law is they should be compelled to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states, even though NM itself won’t issue same-sex marriage licenses.

    (What’s doubly interesting is neither side is saying we shouldn’t have marriage equality. They’re just disagreeing on the path to it.)

    You’re right — we have a lot of work to do.

  • nicho

    Yes, smart, but it shows that not all conservatives — even those in the McCain inner circle — march in lock step against same-sex marriage.

  • nicho

    If you only had video of Obama singing “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.”

  • nicho

    Sometimes unintended and fatal ones

  • S1AMER

    From what planet are you corresponding?

  • Bill_Perdue

    There is no evidence at all that McCain is more of a mad dog warmonger than Obama, in spite of the fact that Obama lied about it during his 2008 campaign.

  • dula

    If Cynthia McKinney had won, treasonous bankers would be in jail AND we’d have won on DOMA.

  • Bill_Perdue

    Your attempt to find excuses for the Democrats won’t pass muster.

    DOMA was a law because of Democrats. Both parties voted for it overwhelmingly and then the Dixiecrat bigot Clinton gleefully signed it. He even bragged about it in ads on a redneck radio station. After that Democrats flat out refused to repeal it even when they had massive majorities in both houses and held the White House.

    People who vote for Democrats – any Democrats – vote for war, union busting, Bill of Rights bashing and the racist murders of American citizens. And they vote for the party that refused to repeal DOMA and still refuses to pass ENDA.

  • dcinsider

    100% correct. Elections have consequences.

  • nicho

    And don’t forget that George HW Bush had Ken Starr on his short list for the court and named David Souter instead. Imagine the horror of Starr on the bench.

    A friend of mine was in the bar at the Hays Adams Hotel the night Souter’s nomination was announced. Ken Starr was there also. My friend said that Starr launched into a profanity-loaded tantrum that would have gotten anyone else ejected from the premises.

  • nicho

    Obama is not far from perfect. He’s a union buster, a mad dog warmonger,
    he want’s to cut Social Security and go even further in gutting
    Medicare and Medicaid. He ordered the racist murders of four American
    citizens – Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi
    and Jude Mohammed. Those who voted for him gave him the authority to be
    an terrible president, the worset since Clintons.

    Yes, but those are just concerns — and John “appreciates” them.

  • nicho

    As my father used to say every time I used the word “if,” “If the dog hadn’t stopped to shit, he’d have caught the rabbit.”

  • Bill_Perdue

    Absolutely not. Elections and court decisions often ratify the efforts of mass movements as they did yesterday but are largely useless as a vehicle for change.

    Obama is not far from perfect. He’s a union buster, a mad dog warmonger, he want’s to cut Social Security and go even further in gutting Medicare and Medicaid. He ordered the racist murders of four American citizens – Anwar al-Aulaqi, Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi and Jude Mohammed. Those who voted for him gave him the authority to be an terrible president, the worset since Clintons.

    Full marriage equality and ENDA will depend on the growth and fighting spirit of the LGBT communities and movements. Period . Full Stop.

    The Democrat and Republican parties are the enemies of LGBT rights, the untrammelled right to an abortion, free and on demand, world peace, the Bill of Rights, unions and a fair standard of living for working people.

  • ezpz

    “If” is a very big two letter word….

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    You forget something at least as important…State legislators and governors who are often elected in off-year elections when Republicans typically have higher turnout. Yes, the white house and congress are important, but state laws and policies affect our lives at least as much. We need to have turnout in 2014 like we did in 2012.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    I get a feeling that a lot of Democrats never listened to a word Obama said in 2008 and instead projected on him positions that he never took. He’s a pragmatist and overall a moderate. I am too. That’s what I liked about him most. For the most part he’s done what I expected he would do. i did not anticipate the emergence of the Teavangelical extremists who’d rather watch the country go down in flames than cooperate with any Democrat (It would have been the same if Clinton had been elected although she is on better terms with the C Street Dominionist bunch). But you are exactly right about the courts. Laws and executive orders can be undone. Supreme Court decisions are harder to get rid of.

  • nicho

    Just for the record, John, you’ve fallen victim to a very common fallacy in political reasoning. You can’t say with any degree of certainty what would or wouldn’t have happened had a prior election gone a different way.

    For example, had Bush beat Clinton in 1992, and had Bush signed DOMA into law, Democrats would have been running all over the place yelling that “Bill Clinton never would have signed this horrible law.”

    Had McCain beat Obama in 2008 and had expanded the drone program to its current levels, Democrats would be telling us assuredly that “Barack Obama would have closed down this program.”

    Had Ford beat Carter and in 1978 signed the disastrous airline deregulation bill, as Carter did, Democrats would be assuring us that Carter never would have done such an awful thing.

    That’s why it’s laughable when the Hillbots and PUMAs come around to tell us that Hill&Bill, Inc. never would have done what Obama’s done. They don’t know that. That’s only a fantasy.

    In point of fact, some of the biggest players for our side in the courts on DOMA and Prop 8 have been Reagan appointees.

  • S1AMER

    Smart move, I’d say.

    Today is the first day of the deathwatch of marriage discrimination. We all have much work to do, and phone-banking, and check-writing, and marching, but we’re at the beginning of the end.

  • nicho

    Interesting tidbit:

    “The American Civil Liberties Union announced Wednesday that it has hired Steve Schmidt, former communications director for the National Republican Congressional Committee and adviser to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., to build support among GOP state politicians for striking down gay-marriage bans.”

  • nicho

    Had Obama lost to McCain, we would probably have been involved in a nuclear war, at least in the Middle East. DOMA might not have even been before the court.

  • FLL

    McCain. What a charmer. He practically stood on his head while filibustering DADT repeal to the bitter end. McCain’s Supreme Court appointments? No Sotomayor, no Kagan. Obviously. Therefore, DOMA would have been upheld in a 6-3 ruling instead of being overturned in a 5-4 ruling.

  • Leota2

    “A lazy media will destroy us”.
    They are most certainly making inroads on that. We’ve become a nation of birds
    fighting for breadcrumbs. There was a reason they didn’t announce VRA and DOMA
    on the same day. Poisoned bread one day. Tasty treat the next. I guess they were
    hoping for our collective memories to fail and forget the screwing they gave minorities
    the first day.

  • http://buddybest.tripod.com/index.html BuddyNovinski

    I was drawing political cartoons at the time, and I had Reagan’s demanding we obey his ukase!

  • Leota2

    Well said. Once I had to explain to a bunch of liberal friends who thought that President Obama
    should be walking on water how full of shit they were. The man is a politician. There will
    be more like him. He’s done wonderful things (considering the insane congress) and he’s
    done things that pissed and pisses me off. Name a president who hasn’t.

    But it is the Supreme Court that is the end all be all. Long after our presidents fade away, write books, fish, paint or try to make a better world that they were limited to when they were in the WH—-SCOTUS remains. People need to grow up and see the big picture. And that picture is—-legacy.

    Frankly, I vote for the president who will not destroy my nieces and nephew’s lives in the next twenty years. So a big FU to W and his father for making sure my southern cousins will probably be handed literacy test when they try to vote. And a right power fist up for the Supremes who indeed understand the arc of justice and made the only decision sane people should make on DOMA.

  • S1AMER

    Wrong. They could have done all sorts of bad things. They didn’t, because there weren’t five votes to do something bad. Thank Walker — by any measure, his wonderful opinion has help change attitudes nationwide — but you must also thank the five justices who didn’t work to reverse that opinion.

  • NCMan

    I’m not feeling giving any credit to the court for the Prop 8 ruling. All they did was decide not to decide. ALL THE CREDIT for killing Prop 8 should go to Judge Vaughn Walker.

  • Indigo

    There are plenty of dark shadows to look into, John, let’s not explore coulddabeens.

  • MichaelS

    WHY IS IT that every conservative has railed against this ruling as an over-reach and a usurpation by the court of the people’s will, as they see evidenced by Congress’s passage of DOMA… when not a single one of them said a peep about the court’s decimation of the Voting Rights Act, which passed UNANIMOUSLY under a Republican President?

    And WHY IS IT that not a single media outlet – progressive or conservative – has bothered to highlight this hypocrisy?

    A lazy media will destroy us.

  • MichaelS

    But it’s not over yet… And I fear for the future still. The Court left open the entire question of states needing to honor other states’ contracts (e.g., marriage). And that means another lawsuit, working its way to the high court, probably some years away. And by the time that happens, we may well have President Christie or President Ryan, who will have appointed the 5th conservative on the court, replace Justice Ginsburg. And when that happens, the court could well take the opportunity to review this ruling and overturn it — just as abortion opponents are trying to do, to get a case to the Supreme Court in order to re-visit and overturn Roe.

  • olandp

    Kennedy was the alternate choice when Bork was sidelined by the Democrats in the Senate. People forget that when Bork was on Reagan’s short list for the court, he was told by the Democrats on the Judiciary committee that Bork was unacceptable. Reagan made the appointment to be combative and put the Dems in their place. It didn’t work.

  • http://buddybest.tripod.com/index.html BuddyNovinski

    However, the Old Fool tried to put Robert Bork on the Court to replace Lewis Powell. It took quite an effort to tell Reagan to “Bork off”.

  • S1AMER

    Absolutely. Elections have consequences.

    Obama is far from a perfect president. But the alternatives — McCain in 2008 or Romney four years later — would have been so very much worse in so very many ways.

    Meanwhile, full marriage equality, and so many other major legal issues, will depend on a future Supreme Court. In other words: Everybody, do your damnedest to elect a Democrat president in 2016, and from 2014 on work to give her or him majorities in Congress.

    Our Democratic politicians usually turn out to be a disappointment in one way or another. But consider the alternative. Work to find and elect better and truer Democrats but — first and foremost — keep Republicans out of power.

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