A 4th Grade science quiz from a creationist school

Snopes has confirmed that a purported 4th Grade creationist school science test, making its way around the Web, is in fact real, and comes from a South Carolina Christian school.

And it’s quite horrifying.

In the test, we learn that the earth is not billions of years old.  Dinosaurs did not live millions of years ago, but rather lived alongside man, and that God made dinosaurs on the sixth day.

creationist-science-test

(I’d reported earlier on the voucher school history book that teaches that hippies didn’t bathe and worshipped Satan.)

My favorite part of the test, however, is what comes at the very end of it, at the bottom of page 2:

creationist-science-test2

Good luck with that answer on your SATs. (h/t Phil Plait at Slate)

PS Harpocrates Speaks has a fun twist on the quiz.


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • SnookyTLC

    The U.S. is a society, and societies care about their members. I happen to care if the U.S. population is getting dumbed down, it affects all of us if we can’t compete globally because too many of us are dirt-stupid and uneducated.

  • Privateer14009

    Oh my! A Christian school teaching creationism?! Whoever heard of such a thing?! It’s a Christian school idiots. Of course they’re going to teach creationism. Why? Because that’s what Christian schools do. You don’t like it? Then don’t put your kid in a Christian school. “I’m concerned about other kids that are being taught this stuff”. Are these other kids your kids? If not, then don’t be. They’re not your kids. You don’t need to be concerned about somebody else’s kid. You only need to be concerned about your own kid. Also, no matter how well intentioned or well versed in your beliefs you may be I can assure you you will not win any Christian school kid’s parents over to your side. You may also make them angry for assuming you have a say in how their child is raised. The best thing to do is let them be and be concerned with your own kid and no one else’s. Besides, there are more important things with which to be concerned.

  • iueras

    Who said anything about metaphor?

  • http://www.facebook.com/nicodemus.grumpschmidt Nicodemus Grumpschmidt

    And that is the basis for founding ANY religion…controlling ignorant people and making sure their few, hard-earned pennies keep filling the religion’s coffers. That’s so morally-lacking it hurts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nicodemus.grumpschmidt Nicodemus Grumpschmidt

    Here’s a fact that can discredit any claim made by creationists. Their big point of contention is that of the so-called missing link. Reading Richard Dawkins’s The Greatest Show On Earth shows the reader, by virtue of step-by-step scientific analysis, discovery, and experimentation, that the missing link is no longer missing. In addition, we are all an intermediate step between that which was before us and that which will come after us. There is no final product unless we destroy ourselves (which, of course, we are well on our way toward doing).
    Over the course of archeological and anthropological endeavor, millions of fossils have been uncovered. This is an ongoing process, rendering more and more pieces of the puzzle everyday. Here’s the fact that stops all creationists in their tracks (though they try ever so hard in vain to counter): Even if science had only uncovered, say, five fossils, that’s still infinitely more evidence of evolution than any idiot creationist has on his side of the issue. Game. Set. Match.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nicodemus.grumpschmidt Nicodemus Grumpschmidt

    Yes, those religious TV shows are great comedy fodder. The sad part is, those people actually believe the shit they spew. What’s sadder? There are people watching it who actually believe it. I think we need to build a time machine and jettison them back to an era where they would be much more comfortable. Say, the Dark Ages.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nicodemus.grumpschmidt Nicodemus Grumpschmidt

    People who spread this kind of BS should be arrested for indoctrinating innocent minds to complete falsehood! I especially liked the “Were you there?” answer. My comeback to that is, “Were you there 6,000 years ago?” Touche! These people are so dumb it’s embarrassing to have to admit they’re members of the same species I am. How depressing!

  • 1jetpackangel

    I’d like to classify Idiocracy as less satire/humor and more of a cross between documentary and horror.

  • Clecinosu

    Being honest, I was actually hoping it was something from The Onion or Cracked.com.

    The test was so comically ignorant, it seemed like it could only be a hoax.

  • RepubAnon

    It isn’t unique to Christianity, either. Damascus was once a center of knowledge and innovation (Damascus steel, for example) – until the fundamentalists started demanding that the universities should teach only the One True Book. It doesn’t matter much which “one true book” gets taught, the destructive results occur by teaching that truth comes from conforming to what the authorities dictate than making up ones one mind based on the evidence.

  • RepubAnon

    Shades of Lysenkoism. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism):

    “So quickly did (Lysenko) develop his prescriptions – from the cold treatment of grain, to the plucking of leaves from cotton plants, to the cluster planting of trees, to unusual fertilizer mixes – that academic biologists did not have time to demonstrate that one technique was valueless or harmful before a new one was adopted. The Party-controlled newspapers applauded Lysenko’s “practical” efforts and questioned the motives of his critics. Lysenko’s “revolution in agriculture” had a powerful propaganda advantage over the academics, who urged the patience and observation required for science.

    Lysenko was admitted into the hierarchy of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, and was put in charge of agricultural affairs. He used his position to denounce biologists as “fly-lovers and people haters,” and to decry the “wreckers” in biology, who he claimed were trying to purposely disable the Soviet economy and cause it to fail. Furthermore, he denied the distinction between theoretical and applied biology.”

    It’s relatively easy to drown out science with politically-convenient ideas if you keep the crackpot ideas coming faster than they can be disproven. This is especially true if one has a propaganda machine amplifying the politically convenient (but crackpot) ideas.

    Alas, science works because that’s how the scientific method operates: hypotheses are tested to see whether they work, and are discarded when shown not to work. (Cold fusion, anyone?) Religious beliefs are tested based on whether they conform with the church hierarchy’s current interpretation of the Holy Book – not whether those beliefs can be used to gain greater insights as to how the universe operates.

    Lysenko caused great damage to the science of Biology in the former Soviet Union, but they eventually recovered. One can only hope that the fundamentalists preaching Bible-based beliefs as science don’t do as much damage to this country.

  • http://twitter.com/BillFromDover Bill from Dover

    I suppose any Christian that accept faith as reality (talking stick/snakes, et al) will accept any goofiness whatsoever as the unvarnished truth as long as it is spoon-fed to them by their religious brethren.

    Ya wanna pollute the malleable minds of your own kind, be my guest and hope for the best, whatever in your private, deranged worlds, that is!

    Start on my kind… prepare for a battle; big time, ya ignorant fuckin’ cretins!

  • http://twitter.com/BillFromDover Bill from Dover

    Would you prefer your Pterodactyl eggs scrambled or fried?

  • FLL

    Things really were going grandly in the Roman Empire for hundreds of years, but then… [cue the creepy-sounding music]… around the middle of the fourth century, the fundie Christians took over. Aaaaah! Let the Bible thumpers take over, and within 50 years, the whole place goes to the dogs.

    There was marriage equality until 342 CE. When Constantine’s three bigoted Christian sons took over, they passed a law in 342 CE making same-sex marriage punishable by death. 395 CE was the official “end,” the breakup of the Roman Empire into east and west. Rome was sacked by the Gauls in 390 CE, the Visigoths in 410 CE and the Vandals in 455 CE.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Given where we’re going, I could easily see a similar future for us, where increasing irrelevance relegates this latest empire to the dustbin of history.
    I wouldn’t mind. Call me unpatriotic but I don’t attach much importance to being a citizen of THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN HISTORY or whatever the jingo patriots think the United States is. If we faded gracefully into a second-class power it might be better in the long run, but I fear that the fading will be far from graceful.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “In one city, the whole world perished.” What a stunning observation!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Yep, we looked into the face of the enemy and he was us…………..

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    While they cannot of the Roman Empire, they may say of us……they did have fabulous poets!

  • George Melby

    I was a teacher for 40+ years and this is proof positive that the education system of conservatives have backwashed into the pulpits of their churches. No problem. Just give these little automatons an entrance test to colleges/universities and simply do not admit them. If they graduate from creation-based universities, do not hire them. Do not fund the educational systems of the social conservatives and they will die. Simple.

  • emjayay

    Seems like a pretty weak comeback to me. About equal with I know you are but what am I?

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Yup.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Given where we’re going, I could easily see a similar future for us, where increasing irrelevance relegates this latest empire to the dustbin of history.

    After all, the Romans had a similar believe in their own Exceptionalism, and that their republic — later empire — was the greatest ever and would endure forever. By then, the rot was already setting in.

    The one difference now, of course, is everything happens much, much faster.

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ zorbear

    The guidance counselor at Momma Bear’s Catholic School told her she needed to forget college because she was too stupid. Instead, she should get married and raise a large family. That pissed her off so much she went to college anyway. She’s now an RN that works with sick little babies (NICU).

    Good thing that those idjits don’t realize how much good their hate does, I guess…

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    That I’d turn into a Goddess-loving Zen/Wiccan bisexual, married to a lesbian, and who studied Hindu spirituality in India at an ashram for three years? ;-)

    No, I’m positive they had no idea. Except for the part where I’m sure they still think someone as precocious as I was wouldn’t turn out to be a good Catholic housewifey, popping out babies like a Pez dispenser.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I feel certain that citizens of the Roman Empire looked around as their once magnificent republic crumbled and fell and said to each other, “We were great, once, but no more. The world will never again see our like.”

    No need to imagine it. The shocked reactions of Jerome and Augustine to Alaric’s sack of Rome in AD 410 are well-recorded and prompted Augustine to write De Civitate Dei. Jerome said flatly, “In one city, the whole world perished.”

    It ought to be mentioned that, practically, the fall of Rome meant very little by that point because what was left of the Empire by then could hardly be said to have any meaningful central authority and, in any case, the seat of power in the West had long since been removed to other cities. But the symbolic effect was great.

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ zorbear

    something I’m sure they preferred. I can see it now, as they chatted together over tea cakes and holy wine, “We sure brought that BeccaM in line!”

    Little did they suspect…
    ;-)

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ zorbear

    Don’t flush! Don’t flush!

    Oh, what the heck, go ahead…

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ zorbear

    unless, of course, we succeed in “transplanting” our version of Demon-ocracy to all the other nations first, in which case, the world will become united under the benevolent guidance of giant corporations…
    :-(

  • http://poodyheads.wordpress.com/ zorbear

    Oh my Holy Pasta! The movie “Idiocracy” is coming true!

  • garcolga

    Apart from the wrong-headedness of the course material this doesn’t seem to be at a fourth grade level, maybe first grade.

  • Naja pallida

    I’d almost prefer we were invaded by barbarian hordes instead of cultivating our own.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I feel certain that citizens of the Roman Empire looked around as their once magnificent republic crumbled and fell and said to each other, “We were great, once, but no more. The world will never again see our like.”

    For a long while, it was true, but eventually other powers rise.

    One thing to remember is that even as America is sliding backwards into a pre-Enlightenment mindset, other nations will carry on. And assuming we don’t kill ourselves off, there will be future historians who write dry treatises on the decline and fall of the American empire, which will invariably point to the abandonment of education, the elevation of parasitic greed as a virtue, and the rejection of progress and worthwhile long-term goals as the reasons.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Although they didn’t find an arc, scientists have discovered a ring around Mt. Arat.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Ah, Catholic school—-I was written up for snitching the May flowers off the Mary shrine and wearing them kneeling and hoping for ecstasy. After all the Arch Bishop, (behind in his Confirmation list) gave me the name Teresa. It was about that time they thought I had priestly potential.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    That last part is arms for mind blowing. I reserve the fact I was an ex-Benedictine for very special occasions.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Or chairing a Science Committee in Congress.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I’ve come to the conclusion that the progressive world we once knew in America is over. As my illness progresses and I age I take no comfort in the disaster about to sweep like a tsunami over this god forsaken empire. So, I am trying to tame my anger, be at peace and keep a stash of Snickers on my desk when hunger and crabbiness get the better of me (thanks to the advise of a friend!).

  • http://twitter.com/JafafaHots Jafafa Hots

    I’m not sure I want them making my fries either.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I’m not sure I buy into James Frazer’s notion that all religious beliefs and mythologies share a core number of common themes, but there does seem to be a broad appeal to the central notion of the Flood and the idea of being descended from one of the very few survivors of a great calamity. I’m easily willing to accept the story of Noah as a famous and memorable story based on this notion–maybe not the best example but never mind that–and so questions like yours hardly matter. There are two troubles, however: first, that religious fundamentalists insist we believe the story is literally true and not a myth and, second, insist that we regard the story as part of a system of moral instruction. The first assertion leaves us asking, “How could this have possibly worked?” The second assertion leaves us asking, “Would a just God actually do such a thing?”

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Yeah, well, in my case having the parish priest tell my parents I’d been pulled out of Sunday School class for asking impertinent questions and suggesting that because I was able to quote scripture so accurately, I might very well be possessed by Satan, had a long-lasting dissuasive effect on my feelings towards Catholicism.

    From that point on, I only went to church and to Sunday School because I was forced to do so. And in the latter case, I took to sitting in the back of the room and remaining totally silent for the duration.

  • PeteWa

    ^__^

  • Sweetie

    Knowing a lot of languages is an exercise is redundancy.

  • Sweetie

    The Chinese system isn’t as good as Finland’s.

  • Bomer

    It’s from the book of Job (40:15 in the English Standard Version). The description given there is anything but clear:

    “Behold, Behemoth, which I made as you; he eats grass like an ox.
    Behold, his strength in his loins, and his power in the muscles of his belly.
    He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
    His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like bars of iron.
    He is the first of the works of God; let him who made him bring near his sword.
    For the mountains yield food for him where all the wild beasts play.
    Under the lotus plants he lies, in the shelter of the reeds in the marsh.
    For his shade the lotus trees cover him; the willows of the brook surround him.
    Behold, if the river is turbulent he is not frightened; his is confident though the Jordan rushes against his mouth.
    Can one take him by his eyes, or pierce his nose with a snare?”

    With such a clear description as that of course it’s a dinosaur/hippopotamus/elephant/crocodile/water buffalo (all of which have been said to be the behemoth).

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    My Dad’s late sixties Lincoln.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    True. I would just say: “neener, neener.”

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Because idol hands make the Debil’s workshop?

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    “Death is the mother of beauty”. I know few poems but I’ll never forget that one.

  • pappyvet

    Here,here.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    OK Mr. Smartypants back at you. All that water was left over after Charlton Heston removed it from the sea because of the Pharaoh and it had to go somewhere. Oh, what’s that. Later? Ok, never mind.

  • pappyvet

    Its like a bad comedy

  • pappyvet

    agreed.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    We do know that God hates snakes and thus created the Phelps family as reminders of His enmity for humans, which he continuously punishes because he really loves us.—-or something.

  • http://blogvader.tumblr.com/ Blogvader

    When I see things like this, I hope silently that I die in my sleep.

    No such luck. I’m still stuck in a country where people think this shit is more important than teaching actual knowledge, or for that matter, employing and helping actual teachers become successful.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I find myself trying to work out a metaphorical way of saying “I was there” that would actually be true in some sense.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Speaking my language!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I was becoming worried and then you quoted Wallace Stevens and all was well with the world.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Amen to that! :-} And after sin there were dinosaurs because they dined on sinners!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “it’s really fruit juice.” True, but highly fermented. Jesus’s miracle at the wedding party was really Welsh’s first PR triumph.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    It’s all there in the Book of Nazi.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    If this goes on they will have to add Honeybooboolish to communicate with American primitives.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    One thing is for sure: Anybody who truly believes the Earth is only 6000 years old has no business holding any job in science, research, or legitimate education.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Your father sounds like my partner’s mother. After a rather wild few decades, she metamorphosed into a conservative Catholic for some reason and wanted to send my partner to some sort of religious counselor or therapist when he came out. She’s not totally nuts, though, and we got on all right the last time I visited. Partly, though, that’s because at some point I told her I was also Catholic. It’s not a lie exactly.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    same here, after the first Sputnik was orbiting, I asked Sister Mary Five Wounds,:”When the Holy Mother ascended into heaven, didn’t she have to worry about gravity and going into orbit.” The answer was: “somethings are scientific and others—-a mystery of faith.”

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    There are all kinds of weird and improbable critters in the early Bible. Supposedly there were also giants.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    The myths of primitive people rarely do.

  • Indigo

    My considered opinion goes like this: it is our obligation to help our fellow citizens who embrace this superstitious construct to achieve their personal goals by helping them stay out of the mainstream economy and the temptations to sinful living that it presents.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Yeah… the eliminationist rhetoric has been ramping up alarmingly over the last couple of decades.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Actually, yes. More than that, they seem to want us to go back to the Bronze Age, in terms of believing myth over science.

    The Regressive Movement (which they call ‘Conservative’) has in the last several decades come to view critical thinking as fostering liberalism and progressivism — which they hate, because it’s led to notions such as the equality of women, LGBT rights, and a belief in the need for more social economic fairness.

    All of these are inimical to an oligarchy, especially one based on people needing to stay ignorant and easily manipulated.

  • Indigo
  • Indigo

    Je préfère français.

  • Indigo

    We’re already there.

  • Indigo

    Ditto. I have no idea what really happened but it seems as if they flushed away clear thinking with the Latin.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I wasn’t brought up on ‘strict evangelical principles.’ But in his early 40s — about the time I’ve since judged his cheese was just beginning to slip off its cracker — my father became a Born Again Catholic. And he tried to make the rest of us that way, too. Church weekly, Sunday School, the works.

    It didn’t take. In fact, as far as I can remember, every one of us kids pretty much dropped Catholicism as soon as we were old enough to move out and live on our own. Or in my case, at 16 when I landed a part-time restaurant job, so my Sunday mornings were almost always booked.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    If only the Emperor Julian had been successful.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Heh. To make a literal reading of the Noah story even the tiniest bit plausible you have to assume the enactment of so many subordinate miracles (e.g. to explain where the water came for and went, how so small a nucleus of animal life could have multiplied so quickly afterward, and so forth) that you have to ask yourself why God didn’t just roll them all up into one big miracle and redo Creation all over again.

  • pappyvet

    In 529 A.D. the School of Athens was closed by the decree of the Christian Roman Emperor Justinian, the same Justinian who also outlawed sodomy, because, “It is well known that buggery is a principal cause of earthquakes, and so must be prohibited.”
    By 391 AD, an edict of Theodosius prohibited visiting Pagan temples and even looking at their ruins. In Alexandria, Pagans revolted, led by the philosopher Olympius. They locked themselves inside the temple of the god Serapis—the Serapeion. Christians violently sieged and captured the building, demolished it, burnt its famous library and profaned its images.
    Over the centuries,the Libraries of Alexandria were razed by Christians and Muslims alike. The loss of so much knowledge because of “belief” is incalculable.
    It is impossible to point a finger at any one group for the complete destruction of the libraries but the mindset is the problem. Blind submission to religious thinking has and continues to cause not just ignorance but destruction. Destruction of lives,freedoms, and knowledge continues. Even the idea of “free will” preached so readily is a threat. You have the “freedom” to do as you are told or suffer horribly for all eternity. Some choice.
    Creationist science,isn’t. It is nothing more than slight of hand to maintain and expand religious control.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Sad. :( I find myself thinking that if I had been in the historian’s place I would have at least tried to ask, “Why is it so necessary for you to believe that the United States was intended to be a purely Christian nation?” I’m assuming that’s what the minister’s core assertion was: that all the Founders were devout Christians, that the Constitution is founded on Biblical law, and so forth.

    It just doesn’t seem necessary to me. If the guiding principle of your life is your belief in an infinite God not bound by finite space or time, then why fanatically insist, to the point of neurosis as you point out, that some statesmen who lived a mere few hundred years ago must have shared exactly the same beliefs as you? Suppose they didn’t–is that of any relevance whatever to your spirituality?

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    They engineer their own decline into ignorance and downfall as a dominant cultural power.

    The first nations and/or multinational corporations to establish an independent self-sustaining presence in space and begin harvesting the limitless resources up there will be the new preeminent superpowers.

    Those who cling to bronze age myths will be left far behind.

  • nicho

    See, it’s working already.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Huh! I’m not sure I’d be prepared for that direction either…

  • StevyD

    A culture of ignorance raising a new generation of ignoramuses. A lucky few will escape from this imposed stultification, but most will grow up to mirror their parents incredulity of common Scientific fact. Dissatisfied with their limited role in a modern world, many, like their parents, will blame and degrade various stereotypes (GLBT people, non Christians, people of Color, whomever) for their own economic and situational stagnation.

  • emjayay

    Look Mister Smartypants, how do you think erratics (huge roundish rocks that don’t match the surrounding rock) got to the top of mountains? The Great Flood, that’s how. That’s how deep the water was. Where did all the water come from that covered the whole earth? God did it. It was a miracle. STFU. So there. Also, God can like fish of the sea better than the land animals if He wants to. He’s God. He can do whatever he wants. Because he’s God.

  • Naja pallida

    One of the many schools I went to was a Fundamentalist Baptist school, literally called a Bible Academy. One small school taught K through 12, and seminary, as well as a few undergrad programs. Their school creed was something like ‘Shaping youth to live the Word of God’. I took religion classes as part of the regular curriculum, but never felt like I was being told ‘Believe this or you’re going to Hell!’ The non-religion classes were like any secular school. The concept of creationism vs evolution was never even discussed. All the things we tie to evangelical “moralism” were never even brought up. Of course, that may just be because it wasn’t an American school, and other countries take their education more seriously. Realizing that students have to grow up to participate in a real world, with all manner of people. Not just people who think, act and believe like they do.

  • emjayay

    Me too, same story.

  • nicho

    The other tactic is to just say “Yes. Yes I was.” That will take the whole conversation in another direction they’re not prepared for.

  • nicho

    The other question is why a flood at all. One of God’s most important super powers is smiting. Why didn’t he just smite everyone he wanted to kill, leave the others alive, and be done with it. It could have been over in a millisecond, instead of all this ark building, raining, and assorted nonsense. It doesn’t make any sense.

  • PeteWa

    …Contempt
    for humanity is one thing, but why
    disdain the expansive
    field, your gaze rising over the clear heads
    of the wild buttercups into what? Your poor
    idea of heaven: absence
    of change. Better than earth? How
    would you know, who are neither
    here nor there, standing in our midst?

    Field Flowers, Louise Glück

  • jomicur

    Our local Christian TV station used to air a nightly talk show called “Getting Together.” One night, with considerable smugness, they announced that they were trying an experiment that night by actually letting a non-Christian on the show. They context was a debate between a fundie minister and a secular historian (from the University of Pittsburgh) about the separation of church and state. The minister started, spouting all the usual lies and half-truths. Then the historian spoke and, needless to say, he destroyed every argument the fundie had. This went on for the entire hour of the broadcast, and the Christian host of the program was more and more visibly upset as things progressed. Finally at the end of the hour he barked, “Well, we won’t be doing THIS again!” And so they retreated into their tight little cocoon, and that was that.

    Anyone that desperate to hide from the truth his serious mental problems. But then, with fundies that almost goes without saying.

  • nicho

    Actually, studies have shown that these fundies have a drop-out rate of about 90 percent among their kids. The kids go along as long as they have to, but once they’re on their own, they reject it — and sometimes quite vehemently. But, they’re scarred for life.

    The saddest ones actually are the Hasidic Jews who are raised in that cult and then leave when they reach adulthood. They are really socially retarded. Many of them barely speak English, have no secular education past third grade, and have never spoken to a member of the opposite sex who wasn’t a family member. They require intensive therapy — even for such things as dating.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I’m reminded of a conversation with a friend several years ago. She was telling me about an acquaintance of hers who was bringing up her kids on strict evangelical principles, which meant no Harry Potter. I mused about what would happen when the kids got old enough to discover Harry Potter (and other things) for themselves. My friend suggested that might never escape the bubble, that the kids would go straight from being raised by right-wing fundies to attending private schools run by right-wing fundies and then sent to colleges run by right-wing fundies and that basically they could easily go through the first decades of their lives socializing only with people whose beliefs exactly matched their parents’. It’s like being a Scientologist and being expected to “disconnect” from anyone who isn’t also a Scientologist.

    The utter poverty of imagination, the insipidity of art and culture, within the “bubble” just astonish me. How can anyone live like that? Wouldn’t it be like eating nothing but box macaroni and cheese every day of your life? Take this “Origins” show you mention. What else can they talk about but the same damn stuff week after week–the same few Bible passages, the same few pet arguments about how evolution is ridiculous because it supposedly can’t explain this or that or the other complex biological structure, the same bits of long-discredited “evidence” like the Paluxy footprints. Is there anything new? Any variety?

  • jomicur

    The amazing thing, to me, about these people is that they quite deliberately live an isolated, bubble-like existence. I’m a longtime fan of televised theology, and one of my favorite Christian programs is ORIGINS, the weekly creationist show. They always describe it as a “forum” on creation science, but it always turns out to be a “forum” where only one point of view is offered. I’m no scientist, but even I have no trouble spotting the (numerous) scientific fallacies and logical holes is what they present. Letting an actual scientist take part in their alleged “forum” would get the bubble burst quickly and thoroughly. And so the Christian soldiers march onward in blissful isolation from anything real.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    But sure as you’re born / The loveliest of all was the unicorn–er, sorry.

    Didn’t a commenter here point out once that the marine life would have snuffed it too because of the enormous dilution of the normally saline ocean?

  • nicho

    This is why the church was so dead set against people being able to read the bible. They were supposed to know only what the church told them about it. Reading the bible in your own language was a capital offense.

  • nicho

    What gets me about the flood is that apparently fish weren’t punished. Why were they exempt? How about ducks, alligators, etc.?

  • HKDaniel

    Ditto.

    Any quote, hell, any citation from the bible – We’re you there??

    But I guess that’s just lowering oneself to their infantile intellect.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    It still strikes me as an odd interpretation. So, after Adam and Eve screwed up, God punished not merely them with mortality but all of the natural world? Guess you could ask the same thing about the Flood.

    I’m not au fait with Biblical scholarship but I do have my trusty New Catholic Edition here with a picture of Pius XII on the frontispiece and lots of footnotes. So far as I can tell from skimming it the blanket statement that death entered the world through sin can be blamed on St. Paul (surprise, surprise!) but even there it seems from context that he’s writing of human mortality, not the very concept of death itself.

    In any case, a world without death would be unnatural, unrecognizable. At least that’s what I get from Wallace Stevens:

    Is there no change of death in paradise?
    Does ripe fruit never fall? Or do the boughs
    Hang always heavy in that perfect sky,
    Unchanging, yet so like our perishing Earth
    With rivers like our own that seek for seas
    They never find…

  • nicho

    Thanks. In fact, I was just about to post a related link.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/08/christian-home-schooling-dark-side

    The dark side of home schooling: creating soldiers for the culture war

    The Christian home school subculture isn’t a children-first movement. Some former students are bravely speaking out

  • http://twitter.com/Scytherius Jonas Grumby

    Exactly. It’s why the GOP has been killing public education for decades.

  • http://www.facebook.com/zachary.smith.3914207 Zachary Smith

    What everybody here is overlooking are the plans of the folks who are pushing this agenda. Their aim is to ensure YOU don’t fit into the future economy, and if the non-believers and sodomites don’t reform and get the “right” religion, they’ll no longer be drawing breath.

    The UK Guardian has been covering this one recently, but I’ve been reading how the Fundies have been urged to have big families so there will be plenty enough soldiers for Jesus. And no, they’re not kidding.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/30/christian-fundamentalists-plan-teach-genocide

    Also
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/08/the-home-school-subculture-creates-soldiers-for-americas-culture-war/

    No need whatever to worry about the “environment” or “global warming”. The end of the world is coming, and that’s that.

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/40137/global-warming-debate-study-shows-links-between-end-times-believers-and-global-warming-deniers

    The graduates of these Fundie programs may not know any science or technology, but how much do you need to know to guard the “camp” where the sinners are held. Or to pull the trigger and put a bullet in the brains of those aforesaid sinners?

  • nicho

    Sixth graders in Catalonia, Spain are taking their tests this week. They have to write essays in three languages — Spanish, Catalan, and either English or French.

  • A_nonymoose

    Yup. My wife is Catholic, went to Catholic school in the ’60’s and she tells me basically the same thing.

  • A_nonymoose

    Ignorant people are easier to control.

  • Gary Harmer

    What was it that Forrest Gump said?….Stupid is what stupid does? Sounds about right. They’ll be burning people at the damn stake soon enough!

  • nicho

    What confuses the crap out of me is that I went to Catholic school in the ’50s. Even while the nuns were propagandizing us on one hand, they also taught us to think critically. They admitted to the possibility of evolution and taught that it was god’s way of accomplishing his creation plan. Have we really rushed backwards into the 16th Century?

  • Just an elbow

    It’s because, according to the theology, death entered the world through sin, therefore, before the original sin there was no death, ergo, there couldn’t be carnivores.

    see what a baptist upbringing will get you?

  • TheOriginalLiz

    sounds like we’re setting ourselves up to be the future suppliers of cheap crap for Chinese and Indian big box stores.

  • Dave of the Jungle

    Meanwhile, Chinese high school students score 4 times higher than American students on Mathematics tests.

  • nicho

    Well, the kid “studied to the test,” and quite successfully. Since that’s what education has become in the US, everything worked out fine. As long as he can push the color-coded buttons on the machine at McDonald’s or pass the entrance test for the corporate cannon-fodder army, he’ll fit right into the new economy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Why the obsession with insisting that all animals were herbivores? Two questions on this “test” address that issue. It reminds me of the weird insistence among the more abstemious Protestant sects that whenever “wine” is mentioned in the Gospels it’s really fruit juice.

    I guess the idea is that before the Fall, the world’s flora and fauna all coexisted with Adam and Eve in joyful harmony and only began eating each other after the Fall. Which, leaving aside the doctrine of the Fall itself, is rather strange. Is this like how in a movie, when one bar fight breaks out, suddenly every other damn person in the bar starts beating each other up?

  • confusion

    A 54′ Packard..

  • rSean

    If someone ever said “were you there?” to me i would ask them if they were there watching Jesus perform his magic tricks. And if not then why are they so sure they should believe all this crap.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I know, isn’t that great? “Were you there?” is supposed to be some kind of sick burn but it works just as well for five thousand years as for five thousand million.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Polish black metal band. Pretty talented actually–saw ‘em live once.

  • Hatfield

    A large part of our country is running back into the middle ages. My view: screw them and show them no mercy.

  • Sally

    Were you there? if someone asked me that, I’d reply: No, were you? And then I would ask them to point out where in their Bible it mentions dinosaurs.

  • Sally

    Well, now we know who elected Sanford back to Congress: these kids’ parents. Hey, SC, wanna secede with Perry? We’ll let you go this time…Lincoln’s ‘perfect union’ has been hacked by Christian extremists without a brain in their collective heads.

  • Indigo

    What’s a Behemoth?

  • samizdat

    Why these parents and “educators” shouldn’t be charged with neglect is beyond me. Those poor children, condemned to ignorance and a lifetime of servitude to their ‘betters’ because of their parents’ and teachers’ fealty to a dead religion. And to think, there are hundreds more districts and individual schools teaching this fetid hogwash.

    “were you there” Teaching ignorance should be a crime against humanity.

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