Wife drops gun at McDonald’s, accidentally shoots husband

Guns in schools.  What could possibly go wrong?

Oh right. This:

Carney said a preliminary investigation revealed that Richard Lee Cooper, 47, and wife Barbara Annette Masters, 48, were sitting in the restaurant’s dining area when Masters leaned forward and a the gun fell out of her pocket and hit the floor.

The impact with the floor caused the gun to go off, with the bullet striking Cooper in the abdomen, he said.

Woman with gun via Shutterstock

“I said no mustard.” (via Shutterstock)

The police are charging the woman with “third-degree assault and reckless endangering.” But does that mean she loses the gun? I’d be curious how that works. Do you lose the right to own a gun after you pull a stunt like this?  You’d think almost popping Ronald McDonald would be prima facie evidence that someone is not competent to carry a firearm.

I was also intrigued that the article quotes a cop offering “the four cardinal rules of gun ownership,” but seems leave out “always have the safety on.”

Carney later offered some reminders of “the four cardinal rules of firearm safety:”

Treat all firearms as if they are always loaded.
Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you’re on target and have made the conscious decision to shoot.
Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to kill or destroy.
Always be aware of your target, the backstop, and what lies beyond.

I’m also curious whether the gun could have gone off if the safety were on? The article doesn’t get into this point, whether the safety was even on.

Regardless, what is she doing with the gun in her pocket, where it can easily fall out? She could have killed a random kid. And what if this were a school? Yes, let’s have even more guns in schools so some of them can fall out and randomly kill innocent kids.

And one final point.  You lose your Second Amendment right when it impinges on all of my other constitutional rights by killing me.

CyberDisobedience on Substack | @aravosis | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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156 Responses to “Wife drops gun at McDonald’s, accidentally shoots husband”

  1. jethroh says:

    sorry BeccaM, but you are wrong. What you say is true of old style single action revolvers, but many modern single actions have what is called a transfer bar, that only functions to fire the gun when the trigger is engaged. Thus a round under the hammer cannot possibly discharge by accidental impact to the pistol. Most double actions are similarly equipped. If this moron was carrying a derringer that explains it. Derringers are, at this point, a novelty piece; no one in the world would recommend carrying a derringer for self protection.

  2. Jefferson says:

    You might want to reread the Supreme Court ruling on that. It’s an individual right not a collective one. If it were it would have read like this.”A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the MILITIA to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. Now it doesn’t say that does it?

  3. DEClark says:

    Did this lady think that she had to shoot her own steer for that quarter pounder she was going to eat and just got her derringer for the McDonalds run? Doubtful. And it just didn’t get beamed down into her picket. That means that she was just as armed and dangerous elsewhere. Where else had she carried that gun before McDonalds? To a hospital to visit a sick friend? Church where she stopped to pray for that sick friend? School where she dropped off her kids? A bank where she made a deposit? Grocery store? Library? Gas station? And where was she going after McDonald’s? Pick up the kids from practice? Take them to a music lesson? Go to a movie? In short, this lady may have been at several other places that day, armed. The weapon could have fallen and discharged at any of those places.

    There were fifteen other patrons plus staff at that McDonalds. One or more of them could have been shot. Or if there were another armed patron, he/she could have returned fire and others could have been hurt.

    Is Bend that lawless that people need to be armed? Or is that McDonalds a drug cartel money-laundering front business? Why was she carrying a weapon in the first place? It may have made her feel “safer” but hr husband was much less safe.

    Th NRA says that there ARE responsible gun owners out there. I don’t doubt that. But even responsible gun owners make mistakes. They forget to lock up a gun. They go out hunting and drink and continue to hunt. And how many gun owners AREN’T responsible? Like this lady? How many have no, or little weapons safety training? How many have training and refuse to handle weapons properly?

    Because of her actions, her husband was shot and is in serious condition. He may die or have life-long medical problems. She may be jailed.

    Unfortunately, it’s not just this lady, but thousands more, men and women who make mistakes, are irresponsible or careless, don’t have weapons training or just don’t care. People not thinking or not thinking clearly because of anger or fear. Not thinking clearly because of drinking or using drugs.

    Background checks, weapons safety training, gun licensing, liability insurance and other regulations won’t prevent these incidents , but they will surely decrease their number.

  4. ErnestineBass says:

    Merely removing the clip from a semi-automatic does NOT mean it’s unloaded.

    Just sayin’.

  5. John Thorpe says:

    I say the same thing every time: You wanna carry a gun and be a hero? Join the Army or the National Guard, because absent being in a defending militia of the United States, the Second Amendment doesn’t apply to you.

  6. So what exactly is your point? That because one moron failed to secure their gun the rest of America shouldn’t have the right to carry one? Exactly how do you make a connection between an idiotic McDonald’s patron to a teacher that has been properly trained? You are implying that all our teachers are too stupid to learn how to handle a firearm properly. Why are you bashing teachers?

    Oh, and for your information … a person DOES lose their 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm when they shoot someone. See, that’s how it works… you break the law, you go to jail and lose your rights. But maybe it would be better to have it your way where nobody has ANY rights to begin with.

    I vote that we start by taking away your right to post commentary on news articles.

  7. Jive Turkey Jr says:

    You carry 1-3 a day? What a coward!!!
    What are you afraid of, man?

  8. JamesR says:

    I would hazard to guess that if she had a permit she will not have it for long, ever. When I got my Florida permit it was made quite clear if we ever violated any laws involving firearms, our permits would be gone never to return. And our legal punishment would be far more severe as we were presumed not ignorant of the law(s) that we would have violated. Which were many. Though I think in Florida (even) the training we got looks like more than Oregon. !? She should face a concealed weapon citation if she didn’t have a permit, that’s Oregon law. I am thinking what the report said is not the end of the charges.

    Even so this was so monumentally STUPID a thing to do, among the hundred and a half posts in this thread nobody has speculated that it may not have been an accident – derringers are specifically designed to shoot people in the gut under tables! Perfect excuse to shoot your husband, in public, with an “excuse.”

    Just saying. Everyone is so keen to jump on the Evil Gun… There is another possibility. One happened, we may never know which.

  9. JamesR says:

    Yes chicken came from egg! Didn’t mean to imply reverse causation. Just simplifying for the ignorant, MyBad.

    I didn’t think there was much of substance I could contribute to the thread, I am ignorant of the nuances of Oregon’s concealed weapons law, and the extreme stupidity of carrying a derringer in a pocket had already been covered. (Though not the idea that is wasn’t an accident, that’s for the police to determine.) I just stumbled across the stale but infuriating libel of the good Remington 700 right at the end / beginning and I had to say something, very late at night. That at least you read LOL. Thanks.

  10. BeccaM says:

    No need to apologize.

    Sadly, for many, the chambered round is required so the responding shooter “doesn’t have to think” as one commenter replied. Or as others feel, one must have 15 rounds available rather than 14. Or 6 rather than 5.

    As far as I’m concerned, such a person is already thinking in in terms of how many people then can and need to kill, rather than how to defuse a situation with no shots fired with intent to maim or kill.

    Too many want to escalate rather than de-escalate. Probably because escalation equals “I get to kill someone and not be blamed for it.”

    I am genuinely glad to hear there are still knowledgeable, responsible folks like yourself out there. As I’m fond of saying, being a responsible gun owner isn’t a legal requirement — but it should be. Sadly, right now, it’s almost entirely voluntary.

  11. James Lee says:

    Shoot first, ask questions later. If it worked in Iraq, it has to work in America.

  12. EdHandy says:

    Pretty sure it’s the other way around; civilian 700 dates to ’62, the M24 to 1988.

  13. EdHandy says:

    Sorry, yes. That was what I was intending to suggest. Empty chamber under the hammer == drop safe. Still needs a trigger safety (more so than with an automatic with an empty chamber) but much quicker for a carry weapon than having to do a slide.

  14. Clif says:

    Get a good holster. I carry 1-3 guns a day and none of my guns have EVER dropped, they are also all equipped with “drop safe” safeties by design, so this was an old gun not being carried properly OR someone had their finger in the trigger guard or other item in there (pen, lip stick, coin what ever fits) and that depressed the trigger causing the gun to fire.
    I can smack the back of all my guns with a sledge hammer and they wont go off because the firing pins are blocked by a piece of metal until I disengage the trigger safety, the firing pin block, and that is the same on all my handguns regardless of if it is a revolver, a 1911, or a Glock.

    I carry a gun in a pocket and it is the ONLY thing besides a holster that goes in that pocket. Pocket holsters are 20 bucks for a good one, so 20 bucks and ONLY put a gun and holster in that pocket everything else can go in other pockets, a backpack, bag,purse or whatever you have .
    I had armed police teaching in classes when I was in a public high school criminal justice class, 2/3 were open carrying a full size department issue handgun on their hip, no one in that class tried to disarm any of them,(and with the level III holsters they were using most students would have no clue how to get the gun out of the holster anyway. As a matter of fact no one even questioned it, brought it up, or felt uncomfortable by it.
    And yes,if she did have a concealed pistol license it would be revoked at court discretion on when it can be reissued if ever, however less than .05% carry licenses are revoked for any reason nation wide.

  15. karmanot says:

    Did you figure that out before or after the Lobotomy?

  16. karmanot says:

    I wonder if Stella Dalla Backstage wife carried heat?

  17. melbach007 says:

    My zipgun has no safety and I don’t need no stinkin’ badges.

  18. BeccaM says:

    Even better if, as my father required for me and my brother whenever we went hunting and we were allowed to carry a handgun (ostensibly for copperheads and/or finishing off some game we failed to kill cleanly with rifle or shotgun): An empty chamber under the hammer.

  19. karmanot says:

    MF was just spending hours sounding it out Becca.

  20. karmanot says:

    Channeling! :)

  21. melbach007 says:

    Teacher drops gun accidentally shoots student…ooops.

  22. karmanot says:

    So it can roll off?

  23. karmanot says:

    YEP, the LAPD’s usual practice of shooting granies in the back to improve their skills, if not their IQ’s.

  24. BeccaM says:

    Derringers, for one, which is what this woman had.

    In fact, just about any gun where a loaded round sits directly under the hammer is prone to exactly this kind of discharge when the firearm is dropped onto a hard surface.

    Y’know, if you just click the link to the story, all these details and more are right there, just waiting to be read.

  25. BeccaM says:

    Derringer .22s are notorious for discharging when dropped. Carrying a loaded Derringer loose in one’s pocket is irresponsibly negligent at best.

    This woman’s ‘accident’ resulted in her husband being shot, and potentially put others in danger. She’s proven that she is not a responsible firearms owner and should not have the right to be carrying one around in public.

  26. Bosfarcal says:


  27. Bosfarcal says:

    Boy, do I feel safe knowing that members of the well-regulated militia are standing right next to me.

  28. BeccaM says:

    Here you go. Help yourself to as much as you like, because we have plenty to go around.

  29. BeccaM says:

    Yep. Actually, from reading the story, it does look like this woman will be charged with reckless endangerment or something similar. Which is as it should be.

  30. Mike_in_the_Tundra says:

    Oh thank you. I needed a good laugh. I guess you do not know why that is so funny.

  31. Dave K says:

    So the negligence was in not ensuring it was properly holstered then. During my first deployment to Iraq the Army stopped calling it “accidental discharge,” renamed it “negligent discharge” and made it a punishable offense. I think it would be a good idea to do so for civilians, as well. The right to own a tool for killing more easily comes with the duty to carry it responsibly.

  32. BryanCooper says:

    Winner Dick Chaney Firearm Safety Award!

  33. Genobama says:

    Apparently, you’re curious about everything? Why don’t you find out something before you just bash everything that you’re curious about, while making a paycheck? I’m curious who hired you and how much money you make?

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  35. gregpalast says:

    The author of this article is clearly not very informed on how firearms work. One of the most common handguns in america is a glock. It has no “safety,” except located on the trigger that unlocks the trigger (google it). The safety is the person using it. I am not being cute, but the person carrying the gun, has the responsibility to carry properly and be educated, as any gun is a lethal weapon. “Safetys” is a hollywood idea that people somehow are led to believe is the cure all – it’s still a lethal weapon. Don’t point it at something that you do not intend to kill. As to the woman carrying a loaded firearm that could discharge accidentally I have two things to say – why was she carrying in her pocket (there are hundreds of appropriate holsters)? and why was she not more respectful of a loaded gun?? These are the questions we should ask, not stupid questions like “why didn’t the guy shoot the robber in the shoulder instead of killing him?” This is an unfortunate accident by an irresponsible gun owner. Do not use this story as an excuse to argue another agenda. The gun “debate” is one of MONEY. Powerful groups stand to profit either way – I’m not talking conspiracy, this is a corporate fight with $billions$ on the line. Look at the stock price of S&W and Ruger since obama was elected in 2008. Why did gun bills hit the floor for debate a week after the CT shooting?

  36. A hundred or so dead kids is just the price of freedom, baby.

  37. lol. Think if Driver’s Ed were that easy.

  38. Yeah, by the time the other gun is out, you’re pretty much shit-out-of-luck. Have we learned nothing from watching “Gunsmoke” when we were kids? (I just dated myself. You can find it on Netflix on Demand)

  39. Two birds, one stone!

  40. Well, technically, nobody was actually killed, and only one or two “serious” injuries. (shooting yourself in the foot probably doesn’t count–that would be a “really funny” injury). That, of course, changes everything and proves that guns are perfectly safe.

  41. I keep pissing people off by raving about the importance of REAL TRAINING for civilians in how to handle a gun in an emergency. Something at least as rigorous as driver’s ed–as opposed to a one-day class.

  42. Toilet paper dispensers have a tendency to roll. Oops!

  43. boom says:

    The first rule implies you should always have the safety on. ALWAYS TREAT THE FIREARM AS IF IT’S LOADED – therefore, keep the safety on. No they should not lose the right to carry a firearm because of an accident. Stop writing your bias articles. This is terrible.

  44. lol. Thanks for the translation. rofl.

  45. The problem is that if–as the NRA suggests–we should all carry guns so that we can defend ourselves from criminals, we will be surrounded by people who are just this stupid with no way to distinguish them from more-or-less reasonably competent people. Maybe we could make the stupid ones wear a big, scarlet “S” on their chests. : )

  46. caphillprof says:

    Insurance is the key.

  47. caphillprof says:

    Seems to my Congress, or at least the House, is using lots and lots of threats.

  48. samizdat says:

    He sounds like one of those idiots one reads about in the noos who plays illegal craps or poker games with his ‘friends’, then ends up getting shot to death in an argument. You know:

    “Reports confirm that the shooter and the victim were playing ___________, and got into an argument. The shooter left the house, and went to his car. A few minutes later he re-entered the building and shot ___________ in the head.”

    I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen this scenario in the noos over the last forty years.

  49. samizdat says:

    Ooooooooo…’Muscle memory’.

    Didja see that? He got all science-y on us.

  50. HeartlandLiberal says:

    An automatic with the safety off and a round in the chamber. Which, of course, is rule number one on how you do NOT carry a handgun safely. Even with revolvers, I do NOT load a round into the chamber under the hammer, in order to absolutely insure the gun cannot discharge if dropped. Frankly, the majority of people carrying guns are really too stupid and unstable. All gun sales should require instant background checks, and all license to carry should include REQUIRED training course, which must be tested and passed. It is absurd that our requirements for getting a license to operate a vehicle in America are more stringent than our requirements for gun ownership.

  51. EdHandy says:

    Depends on how irresponsible. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=baby+dies+in+hot+car

  52. EdHandy says:

    That’s why a double-action revolver is a MUCH better choice for concealed carry than a semi-auto. It’s drop safe, but doesn’t require a manual step to chamber a round.

    You still need a safety, as something could catch the trigger.

  53. JamesR says:

    That’s a bunch of crap. Tough it’s an excellent example *of* crap, professional and political crap. Propaganda. A thorough examination of the Remington trigger issue reveals a story of today’s litigious culture and CNN’s lack of any journalistic culture at all. Stenographer culture for sure, not investigative culture.

    “Investigation finds” – nothing. Investigation found a lawsuit. That lawsuit went nowhere. It was disproved. Yet on the interweb the scurrilous accusation remains. Minor Googling and “investigating” would tell anyone curious what the truth is. If that’s what they wanted.

    From the first Google result: http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/hunting/2010/10/petzal-different-look-remington-model-700-trigger
    “If the original 700 trigger has a fault, it is that it can be fooled with by anyone who has a small screwdriver.”

    If only that were the problem at CNN…

    A screwdriver, and / or extreme dirt and rust, in other words gunk. Bullshit. Of course if you take that from CNN you got nothing. Or, it would seem, at “fair Warning” which simply aped CNN.

    The Remington 700 is the the civilian version of the Army M24. To this day. The military has never had this problem.

    There are actual unsafe weapons in circulation, like dumbass’s derringer. It might be better to arm yourself with links to those.

  54. Straightnotnarrow says:

    The old “Han shot first” scenario. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEX6QJ-zlQ

  55. Straightnotnarrow says:

    “And one final point. You lose your Second Amendment right when it impinges on all of my other constitutional rights by killing me.” This. For me libertarian-ism ends at the molecular junction between skin and air. What you do for your ownself is all fine and good to me, but when what you do impacts me or other members of this society then your “rights” are subject to scrutiny and if appropriate, regulation.

  56. A.L. Hern says:

    When asked why the woman brought the gun to McDonald’s, NRA vice president Wayne LaPierre replied that the couple had a 2nd Amendment right to defend themselves from the Hamburglar.

  57. But see if the four cardinal rules of firearm safety were followed then it wouldn’t have mattered about a “safety”. Just because you have the right to carry – you need to have the brains on how to do so safely!

  58. Hey, Stevie Wonder is so fed up that he’s applying for a gun permit. I bet he gets one … you see there is no law denying a blind person the right to own a gun.


  59. Brian says:

    Guns are designed to KILL and ONLY kill. Cars aren’t. Kitchen knives aren’t. You’re using the false equivalency argument that falls flat. Nobody buys cars or kitchen knives with the express intent to KILL other humans or animals. Moreover, mass murderers have the option of choosing other tools but in 99.9% of the cases, they choose GUNS.

    Guns have ONE purpose…to kill. That is why they are singled out.

    Therefore, if YOU are irresponsible and allow your GUN to be stolen, then YOU are as responsible for any deaths as much as the triggerman is.

  60. Amethyst says:

    OK Brian, so if your kid grows up and kills someone; we get to put you to death as well. You are responsible for firing that gun also. If your house gets robbed and your car gets stolen and someone kills someone with your stolen car or stabs someone with your kitchen knife…. you go to the gallows buddy!!

  61. jimbox says:

    Remember a guy called Dick Cheney? Gun accidents can happen with the smartest people. Those things need to all carry insurance. Then, people are liable to be more careful.

  62. Brian says:

    I’m in. Punishments are meant to be threats to PREVENT people from misbehaving. Clearly, the punishments our legal system dole out aren’t sufficient. The goal shouldn’t be to punish, but to prevent. Make the threat so horrifying that people go out of their way to comply so that NOBODY else gets hurt.

  63. jimbox says:

    And the things should all be insured. Who is expected to pay for this man’s medical bills? The NRA? noooo. Before they start blaming the “stupid woman”, remind them of super smart guy Dick Cheney, whose shotgun went of into his partner’s face.

  64. Brian says:

    I disagree. Don’t give gun owners a way out. The point is to keep guns locked up and out of reach of anyone who doesn’t need it. Not to punish someone later after murders take place. Prevention is what we need, not punishment.

    The NRA claims that MORE guns act as a deterrent to crime. We KNOW that is patently false. But they keep claiming it. So, using their “logic,” we can use the threat of a firing squad to incentivize gun owners into keeping their guns 100% safe and out of the hands of anyone else.

    Make the drastic punishment mandatory without loopholes nor appeal and I promise we’d see a rash of sales on gun safes and gun locks and/or a lot of casual owners deciding that it just isn’t worth the risk. The odds of them ever needing a gun “for protection” is infinitesimally small so risking their own life just for that useless security blanket isn’t likely worth the effort for most gun owners.

  65. And what if that round had struck another patron? A child? Was this woman “protecting herself”? at the McDonalds? Does her husband feel “safe” now?

  66. I’m all for people having guns on their private property. I am wholeheartedly AGAINST people carrying a gun in public. No matter how much you shoot at a range, civilians do NOT have training on how to handle weapons in a populated areas and are just as much a danger to me as any “bad guy with a gun.”

  67. Dale Top says:

    I have some problems with this story. What type of gun goes off when you drop it? That usually only happens in the movies. Most (modern) guns are design to not go off unless you pull the trigger. As for the writers question about why “having the safety on, isn’t one of the basic rules of firearms safety” The answer is simple. Safeties fail. Not all guns have “safeties” they are actually called decockers to anybody who knows what they are doing with a gun. Nobody should rely on a decocker to protect them from an accidental discharge. If you follow the four rules you wont have an accidental discharge.

  68. jimbox says:

    Good, so lets give every stupid person a gun. It is their right, no obligation more important than voting.

  69. Too bad NRA gunloon dung heaps don’t kill themselves more often. End of problem.

  70. I think there should be an Intelligence test for owning a gun. If you don’t understand the dangers inherent and the accidents possible, if you cannot pass a gun safety course, if you cannot learn and demonstrate proficiency with firearms, then you may not own or carry a gun.

  71. Naja pallida says:

    Yeah, that’s most definitely the problem.

  72. Clevelandchick says:

    Except, do things always work the way they are designed to? Not always.

  73. Clevelandchick says:

    Exactly…the 6 or 7 deaths on that ‘national gun show day’ at the freaking gun shows that day should be enough for people to get that much.

  74. Actually, if you listen to the pro-gun people in the current debate, they are saying that gun ownership is a right. Apparently, one is considered a “responsible” gun owner until something happens that intervenes and proves how stupid and irresponsible so many gun owners are. There are no gun accidents. Whether your gun goes off accidentally, gets stolen and you don’t report it, you buy or sell a gun without the proper CBC, or you don’t register your guns properly. Each is preventable and methods exist to prevent such accidents. How come guns in this country always “go off” as if guns are alive? How come no one is ever responsible, least of all the gun owner?

  75. One caveat. If your gun is stolen, and you don’t report it…..

  76. I think your state needs help considering you don’t know that “classroom” is one word, not two.

  77. mike31c says:

    NRA and gun nut’s solution: More Guns! Now!

  78. Read the story, the guy officer did take the clip out of the gun. it was indeed unloaded. That said, the problem is not “who” or “which” armed people you hire and place in schools. The problem is putting armed people in schools in the unlikely chance that some madman does shootup the school. Newtown was a tragedy, but not a common one. The remedy is NOT arming everyone. People can argue, debate, and discuss things without settling things with a gun. In fact, arguing and debating without threat is precisely the reason for schools, the Courts, Congress, State Houses, and City Hall being gun free zones….

  79. AD says:

    It is even easier in a revolver if the hammer is over a round. In a semi you don’t chamber, in a revolver you leave one cylinder empty for the hammer to rest over.

    They make semi-automatics with integral safeties that will not fire when dropped, even if chambered. Combinations of thumb safety, trigger safety and a striker plate that drops between the firing pin and the chamber prevent this. Most of all a user with a brain and a pulse should never chamber a round in the first place while carrying!

  80. BeccaM says:

    It was a .22 Derringer. Loaded, they’re inherently dangerous, especially if carried in a pocket.

  81. David Forbes says:

    We get that every time a republican breeds.

  82. BeccaM says:

    The linked article says it was a .22 Derringer. If it was a standard model, it would’ve been a single-shot action which, if it is loaded, always has a round directly under the hammer.

    Absolutely not the kind of gun you want loose in a pocket.

  83. BeccaM says:

    Then don’t read it.

  84. BeccaM says:

    Except that being an irresponsible father usually doesn’t result in injury or death.

  85. lynchie says:


  86. BeccaM says:

    Yeah, but if you note in one of the comments below, at least some seem to believe concealed-carry is supposed to have a round chambered. “So you don’t have to think” was his rationale, said without apparent irony.

  87. pburns says:

    How about we run over drunk drivers? Or maybe we could put people that speed in a car and roll it over a cliff.

  88. BeccaM says:

    Most law enforcement and security officers have snap-releases on their holsters.

  89. Outspoken1 says:

    STOP! Glock has two safeties (and ALWAYS has). There is an internal safety to prevent accidental discharge if the weapon is dropped and a manual safety on the trigger. The only time a Glock does not have the safety engaged is when the shooter puts their finger on the trigger.

  90. karmanot says:

    I know, I’m still visualizing.

  91. Outspoken1 says:

    The other cardinal safety rule is to not have a cartridge chambered (either under the hammer of a revolver or in the chamber of a semi-auto). That way, there is no cartridge to fire and bullet to fly to hurt others. The safety is irrelevant if no round is chambered.

  92. karmanot says:

    Or the Governor Jan Brewer’s son who is a felon, serial woman abuser.

  93. dula says:

    Accidental shootings are becoming quite common (toilet discharges, movie theatre mishaps, 7-11 911s). They are frequent enough at this point to completely dispel the NRA’s fraudulent notion of the responsible gun owner. Not only should there be thorough backround checks but getting a gun should be more difficult to get than a driver’s license. Potential owners should be forced to simulate various real life situations while carrying their weapon, like sitting in a fucking McDonald’s, without any surprises except for the contents of the food.

  94. LawMom3 says:

    If only Marshall Dillon weren’t dead. If only we had a professionally trained, adequately equipped police force around to deal with threats instead of having to act as our own law enforcement because we live in such a lawless, wild society full of black-hatted varmints and angry Indians.

  95. LawMom3 says:

    That’s nonsense. I know a number of people with concealed carry permits, all combat veterans of Vietnam, and none of them endorse the idea of having a round chambered, especially on a gun like a Glock which doesn’t have a safety. Your suggestion is foolish and dangerous. We don’t live in the Wild West and we don’t need people wandering around with rounds chambered just to give them that extra second for when they get into a shootout.

  96. karmanot says:

    Once for assault weapon, twice for pop gun.

  97. LawMom3 says:

    For one thing, not all guns have safeties. If it was a Glock – probably the most popular handgun around – then it didn’t have a safety.

  98. This happened in what state?

  99. Naja pallida says:

    “If you plead not guilty, you will be sentenced to death. And, unlike in
    your country, Mr. Moore, sentences are carried out within a week. You
    will be shot, and the cost of the bullet will be billed to your family.”

  100. “I was also intrigued that the article quotes a cop offering “the four cardinal rules of gun ownership,” but seems leave out “always have the safety on.””

    Many modern handguns do not have a “traditional” safety catch. Many handguns have the safety built into the trigger pull of the weapon. These types of guns will always fire a round if there is one chambered and the trigger is pulled. Then again, these types of guns will not go off when dropped.

    Either way, he still got the four rules right. If you pull a gun out your first move when bringing it up to aim should be taking the safety catch off if there is one on the gun.

  101. Neither of the trucks they shot up resembled the fugitive’s truck.

  102. I hear what you’re saying, but don’t forget that the NRA/gun enthusiasts have one of the most well funded lobbies in Washington and they have contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to individual members of congress.

  103. My fear, too! As a teacher, there is no way I will ever have a gun at school! And I’ve had professional training in the use of handguns.

  104. Blogvader says:


    Another day, another solid argument for licensing (and demanding demonstrated competence from) all gun owners.

  105. UncleBucky says:

    Life style???

  106. So, we either have to believe that this woman is incredibly stupid and careless, or….how do we know she didn’t WANT to shoot her husband?!

  107. UncleBucky says:

    Best comment of the thread! Shooting a gun is just as fun as shooting one’s “gun”… ;o)

  108. Well, I would hope the guard is smart enough to not have a round chambered just waiting to be fired. In the US Army we never had live ammo chambered until we were set to actually fire on the shooting range.

  109. UncleBucky says:

    That’s how nice days get ruined if the gun user is an idiot.

  110. UncleBucky says:

    HAH, yeah, you’re right. By the time the guy has you in his sight, you can’t have time to think, either to deholster the gun or aim it at the guy. No matter what, round in chamber or not, it’s a bad day when a loose gun (the perp) is an easy weapon to harm you.

  111. Also, maybe it’s not so good to hire a retired cop! They are retired for a reason: time makes their usefulness less reliable. Forgetting is a big issue for those folks. ;)

  112. UncleBucky says:

    My sister and b-in-law live in Michigan. They said, “what’s the problem?”

    I say, somethin’s gonna happen with this trend. A big thing…. Sad. :((

  113. This kind of crap happens when a generation has been raised to be basically stupid and without any common sense. Also, I was taught that a round should never be chambered to go off with just the pull of a trigger.

  114. UncleBucky says:

    This is EXACTLY what I fear would go horribly wrong if NRAer McGoos and/or teachers (heaven forfend students) being allowed to conceal carry or to “patrol” Zimmerman-like outside of a school.

  115. Brian says:

    Every gun owner truly believes that he/she is responsible.

    I propose the following to GUARANTEE it:

    IF your gun is stolen and used to kill another person, YOU are sentenced to DEATH by firing squad with that stolen gun (provided it was recovered).

    If you sell a gun without fullproof background checks ensuring with 100% assurance that the buyer is not and will not be a criminal murdered, you die by firing squad with that gun you sold.

    I imagine that this brutal punishment would compel so-called “responsible gun owners” to REALLY take it upon themselves to be responsible or to just give up their useless hobby altogether.

  116. Dave K says:

    You have to make an effort to be this dangerous to yourself and others. Assuming this was a semi-auto, it didn’t chamber that round itself. Somebody put in the magazine and then pulled back the slide before any of this happened.

  117. Indigo says:

    Gun nut shoots gun nut. No problem. If it was a problem, there’d be a law. The entire gun control issue has become a fiasco with the gun nuts posturing and waving their phallic symbols around while the opposition frets and fumes and writes clever essays. If guns were an actual problem in society, there’d be a law. There isn’t. That’s because we have an unspoken social contract in the United States to accept the occasional accident and lament the occasional massacre as a part of the process. It’s all good. Right? If not, why just another clever essay? Why no action?

  118. But what we REALLY need is MORE idiots with guns…..right?

  119. Trs Edwards says:

    Dawin Award: runners up.

  120. Sooooo…nothing about being mentally ill precluding you having a gun. Now we can understand how Tucson happened.

  121. GMann says:


  122. GMann says:

    in AZ the requirement to carry concealed is a pulse. . . and not be a felon or domestic abuser

  123. leathersmith says:

    we’re doomed

  124. Bodidley says:

    I always lay my pistol inside my pants when on the craper. That way if I
    forget when I stand to pull my pants up there it is right in the crotch of
    pants. For anyone who does not live by their weapon they should carry a
    revolver. A revolver will only fire if the trigger is pulled. Imposable to fire
    otherwise. A federal mandated built in design that has a block in front of
    firing pin until trigger is pulled.

    I like to party and always carried a revolver
    because of life style. Have been in more than one shoot out and learned to
    always carry a quick loader. I do not expect everyone to agree but that is what
    always worked for me and the ones I trained. I have seen before a high dollar pistol
    left on top of a commode before

  125. cole3244 says:

    at least she injured someone from her family and not an innocent bystander, if she had a revolver that wouldn’t have happened either.

  126. Aaugh! Don’t do that. “Fisking” is bad enough at the best of times and this is practically illegible.

  127. Naja pallida says:

    In my state the requirements for a concealed carry permit are ~10-15 hours of class room training, and 50 shots fired at a paper target. Do you suppose that’s enough training to develop muscle memory and adequate threat recognition skills?

  128. Naja pallida says:

    What is the appropriate foot tap code for “I have a wide stance, and I’m packing heat”?

  129. colleen2 says:

    Yes, we treat gun ownership like we treat fatherhood. It’s a right, not a responsibility.

  130. nicho says:

    Good that there wasn’t some “good person with a gun” who thought she was a baddie and shot her dead.

  131. nicho says:

    So, basically, you walk around shooting a lot of people and develop “muscle memory.” Shooting someone in a real-life situation isn’t quite the same as shooting at a piece of paper at the range. “Can you please hold still, and stand right in front of me, while I put on my hearing protection. Thank you.”

  132. Dave says:

    It doesn’t say what kind of gun it was..a lot of single action revolvers and semi auto pistols don’t have safeties though you have to cock them first

  133. diamondmask says:

    Such as a shootout in a McDonalds full of kids. I just hate going out anymore because of all the stressful shootouts that are happening EVERYWHERE nowadays! It’s just like freakin’ Dodge City out there! Danger at every turn! Armed marauders cruising the streets taking what they want and leaving legions of dead and bleeding in their wake.

  134. pappyvet says:


  135. AdmNaismith says:

    Maybe that unchambered round will give the untrained carrier a moment to think before they go around shooting at random and unknown sounds. You really do want to have to think before you fire a weapon. You really, really do.

  136. GMann says:

    You want to react. Muscle memory. The thinking part is devoted to the situation.

  137. AdmNaismith says:

    So many ‘Shoulds’, so many fewer innocent bystanders.

  138. Dan Scott says:

    According to the NRA, if only he had been carrying a gun, he could have shot her before she dropped her gun and shot him. So, it wasn’t the fact that she had a gun that caused the shooting, it was the fact that another gun owner didn’t shoot her first that caused the shooting.

  139. GMann says:

    Taking a dump. The gun will want to slide out of the holster when you “drop trow”. . . You set the gun on the toilet paper dispenser. . .

  140. Mike Meyer says:

    Can’t steal The Red Man’s land unless ya got guns. The INJUNS still call YOU “illegal aliens”, and WE ALL KNOW what America thinks about and treats “illegals”. U&I PAY to have KIDS KILLED in Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, etc., if such occasions arise here????

  141. Naja pallida says:

    Just when you thought the worst thing for you in the place was the food.

  142. karmanot says:

    Smaller classes!

  143. karmanot says:

    That husband didn’t have flaming red hair, white gloves, an oversize yellow jumpsuit, a red nose and huge clown shoes did he?

  144. BeccaM says:

    Click the story link and find out: Bend, Oregon.

  145. BeccaM says:

    Unfortunately, due to the pro-gun lobbyists and activists, being a responsible gun owner is almost entirely voluntary.

  146. BeccaM says:

    What? You mean something like this:

    Lapeer, MI — A security officer at a Lapeer charter school left a firearm unattended in a school bathroom on Monday, Jan. 14, a school official said.

    The security officer “made a breach in security protocol” and left an unloaded weapon in a restroom “for a few moments,” said Chatfield School Director Matt Young.

    Translation: The idjit unholstered his firearm, put it on the sink or shelf or somewhere in there, and walked away having forgotten he’d done so. The fact we’ve heard about it likely means someone else found it before he remembered his gun was gone.

    Young said the school has been in contact with local authorities about the matter and wouldn’t discuss any possible repercussion for the officer, calling it “a personnel matter.” Young also declined to name the security officer.

    Translation: If they won’t say he was fired or formally reprimanded or fined by the local PD for reckless endangerment, in all likelihood it was just a verbal reprimand.

    “The school has put additional security procedures in place that follow local law enforcement practices and guidelines,” Young said in a statement.

    Translation: We’ve told our armed guards they’re never to unholster their firearms, even when taking a piss, a dump, or merely washing their hands because they might forget them. Because apparently we needed to point out the obvious.

    “At no time was any student involved in this breach of protocol.

    Translation: This happened during class periods and we’re pretty sure the adult teacher or custodian who found the weapon was the first person to encounter it. That’s our story and we’re sticking to it. Because legally, if a child found it, we’d be in big $ trouble.

    We will continue to work on improving school security.”

    Translation: We really hope you all forget this ever happened.

    Young stressed that no children were exposed to the handgun or put in danger, and declined to comment more on specifics of the incident.

    Translation: We really, really hope you all forget before some irate parent decides to file a lawsuit. Besides, we asked the kids if they saw anything and they all said ‘no’, and we all know kids never lie about anything if you ask them in your serious-voice.

    The school recently hired the officer, who is retired from the Lapeer County Sheriff’s Office, as a means to bolster school security.

    Translation: Because police officers never make dumb mistakes like the rest of us humans do. Like, for instance, as Nicho points out below, shooting up a paper delivery truck that looks nothing like the one the police were looking for.

    Source: http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/01/security_guard_leaves_gun_unat.html#incart_river

  147. Duncan says:

    “You don’t want to have to think” is the best part of your comment and describes anyone walking around with a concealed weapon.

  148. GMann says:

    Christian, keeping a round in the chamber is standard operating procedure for concealed carry. You don’t want to have to think about chambering a round in a stressful situation.

  149. olandp says:

    Just arm all of the children and be done with the problem. They’ll probably kill each other off, then no problem.

    Do I need to point out snark?

  150. Hal Donahue says:

    where did this happen?

  151. Not keeping a loaded round in the chamber is also a good concealed and carry rule.

  152. nicho says:

    Meanwhile, highly trained police officers in the LA area, looking for a copy killer, have “accidentally” shot up two trucks — one of which was not even close to the truck the suspect is driving. Two people have been injured — one a 71-year-old woman delivering newspapers.

    And they want to give guns to teachers and school custodians with a couple of hours of half-assed training. Yeah, that will work.

  153. Wolfhound says:

    A .22 caliber derringer is apparently a notoriously unsafe weapon and would discharge if dropped, even with the safety on. Just another brilliant design, sigh.

  154. GMann says:

    John, Not all guns have “external” safeties (little button) that can pushed on or off. Glock, one of the most popular handguns with law enforcement does not. They have internal safeties, which would have prevent a accidental discharge (AD) from occurring when a gun is dropped on the floor. It should be carried in a holster, which would prevent AD and dropping on floor…

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