This “gay Mormon coming out” video is really disturbing (video)

Clearly I didn’t watch the same “Mormon coming out” video that everyone else watched.

Folks have been extolling this video (below) all over the Web.  I found it disturbing, and a perfect example of the damage that far too many religions, in this case Mormonism, have done to far too many kids.

In the very-well-done video, a young gay BYU student comes out as gay to his family and friends on camera.  It’s a project that he did over a year.  It’s a great video, well executed, and the guy, Jimmy Hales, is a natural on camera.

But damn, it’s hard to be happy for this kid.

Let me quote you a few things, starting with Jimmy’s description of the video on its YouTube page:

Studying at BYU as a closet gay Mormon has been quite an experience. I finally decided to come out and stop living a lie. I’m still, and will forever be, a faithful Mormon, so it looks like I’m not going to marry and therefore live a single life through this mortal existence. Sucks.

Yes, because he’s a “good Mormon,” Jimmy is going to remain celibate for the rest of his life and never fall in love.

That’s hardly “coming out” in my book, and it certainly isn’t healthy.  The message Jimmy has embraced is the message of the closet.  The message that you will never love or be loved.  That you will spend your life alone, and die alone, because [insert God here] hates you.  That’s not a recipe for long-term happiness.

And here is Jimmy’s “coming out” to his Mormon bishop. Note what the bishop says, and note Jimmy’s response:

Mormon coming out gaySometime during Winter semester 2012.
Tithing settlement.
“So, are you dating anyone.”
“Nope.” I shamelessly replied.
“Well that’s not good.” my bishop said.
“I don’t want to date anyone.”  Then my bishop looked at me,
“Do you experience feelings of same-gender attraction?”  What?!  All I said is I don’t want to date anyone, how does he…?  ‘This is real.  Oh gosh, this is very real.’  I paused a good while.  I looked at my bishop and in a weak voice replied,
“Yeah.”  I had never wanted to die more than that moment.  Finally realizing the fact.  Affirming the fact.  Loathing the fact.  Breaking through the denial was almost more than I could take.  A few words were exchanged and then my bishop looked at me and with genuine empathy said,
“That sucks.”

It was exactly what I needed to hear.  I needed empathy.  I need empathy.  He didn’t make the mistake and tell me to have hope or that one day I still might get married.  Either one of those approaches would have thrust me out the door.  My bishop is a man of God.  The topic was relatively new to him and I feel he did well with it.  He is a man of God, with the gift of discernment that I haven’t seen before.  He truly understood that I must be passing through hell and still have a long way to go.  As long as he knew that, then that was enough for me.  Not only did this bishop give me empathy, but it’s because of him I was able to take that first step.  I was finally headed away from the lie that enveloped my life, and was now headed towards who I really was.  I had a long way to go.

Except that he’s not headed towards who he really is.  He’s headed towards that particular hell that Mormons put gays through, forcing them to remain unloved their entire lives.

And “that sucks” was exactly what he needed to hear from someone he looked up to?  Hardly.  How about, I still love you.  How about, God still loves you.  But “that sucks”?  That answer sucks. That was anything but a message of empathy.

This video disturbs me.  It borders on (borders on?) anti-gay Mormon propaganda.  It’s the kind of things the Mormon HQ would put together and/or disseminate in order to show how kinder and gentler they are, as they force kids to hate who they are, and become celibate adults who have given up any hope of ever being loved.

I’m really loathe to criticize anyone’s coming out, and don’t recall ever feeling the desire or need to before this.  And I get that coming-outs are messy, and hardly ever perfect – we’re at a tender “new” stage coming out, and not everything is going to be 100% right.  But this video isn’t just sad, in the YouTube age it’s harmful.  It’s one thing to come out privately to your friends and family, it’s another to do it on YouTube where the possibilities of exposure are endless.  The wrong message can do a lot of harm.  This is not a video I’d show anyone interested in coming out, unless I showed it as a “don’t let this be you” admonishment.

I’m glad that Jimmy Hales feels better having come out, but I worry that his plan to be a good Mormon, by forever giving up on love, is not going to end well.  It rarely has.

I watch this video and all I see is another soul damaged by our friends, the Mormons.


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • Gigi

    “This article tells me that if I am single, whether or not by my own choice, I cannot be happy.”
    Not at all. But the video tells us that the young, out gay man is expected to stay single and celibate for his entire life if he wants to be accepted by his family and his church. That’s sad.

  • Gigi

    Why do people feel that their identity is wrapped up in a chosen lifestyle – in this case, that of a Mormon? Why do Mormons have to shove their chosen lifestyle down our throats? Prop 8 wouldn’t have passed were it not for Mormon’s and their deep desire to turn American into a country of Morbots. They have freedom of religion, but we have freedom FROM their religion.

  • Curious

    Why do you feel your identity is wrapped up in your sexual activities?

  • The Gay Mormon

    I am a Mormon. Plenty of Mormons know someone in their own family who are gay. We have friends who are gay. I am a Mormon and gay. It’s none of the church’s business about my sex life. That’s between me and God. In our lessons booklets we pass out, the one about Chastity, it says us Mormons are not to talk about things that could upset our family or friends or cause them to worry about us. Nor are we to talk about anything that will lead a conversation into an ill-willed ending and bad feelings. So a true Mormon would never go up to anyone and ask, “Hey are you gay?” Because if the other person says yes, then depending on who the person who is a Mormon, things could get “ill-willed” quick. And we are not to do things like that. And as a gay man who is a Mormon, I just wouldn’t come out and tell everyone either because that’s not going to be a great thing in the church either. Some church members may not care, but some might, and we can’t rock the cradle. If you’re gay and a Mormon, find a gay lover and keep it to yourself and be glad you found love, and do not give up on the church. The church is made up of people, who are all imperfect themselves, and some of them who curse at another Mormon member who maybe gay should see that they have no right to say anything at all about it except maybe “Pray about it.” And that’s it. I believe God makes certain people gay. It’s not a choice. You are born that way. And again, if any church members say it is a choice, then the person who is gay needs to quit being gullible and show some back bone and really get to them themselves and be proud of who they are, quit trying to change who they are, believe Heavenly Father loves them no matter what, never lose faith in the True Church of God, which is the Mormons, and happiness will come about. Personally, I have not yet ever been attacked by anyone in the Mormon Church. I never said I’m gay, but if you knew me, you’d have to be pretty dumb not to figure it out. And even though its obvious that I’m gay, all the church members thus far, have been so nice. Trust me, they all got issues too with their own lives, and we all need Jesus’s atonement to get back to Heavenly Father no matter what the issue, whether we are gay, alcoholics, heterosexual adulterers, drinking coffee, or tea, or what ever other things we are doing that the church may ban. Personally, I do not believe Heavenly Father looks at homosexuality as a big sin the way most members may see it, I don’t see it any different then let’s say eating some food on the Sunday of the Fastening. Who knows, wouldn’t it be great if we all meet Heavenly Father and he tells us that being gay isn’t bad at all? After all, it’s not written in the 10 Commandments in the Old Testament, and the Mormons Latter Day Commandments say “Follow the law of the land.” And if man kind is legalizing gay marriage and that’s the law, how can that be sin? Also, the Mormon Church is being guided by and EXCELLENT prophet. The prophet, Thomas Monson, is a true prophet of Heavenly Father. He has said things that I believe Heavenly Father would say and I feel it in my heart and I have prayed on it. Our Prophet has said to allow gay members in the Boy Scouts to come out and be true to who they are, and we Mormons WILL continue to support the Boy Scouts, and we support them with almost 45% of all the money they get! Our Prophet, has also come out and said for ALL member Mormons to welcome gays into our church with a WARM welcome that includes a heart felt tune. This is the true church of Jesus Christ, I know it, and we are good people. Things may have been different in the past, but the Mormon Church is becoming more “updated” then in the past. As a gay man, I forgive them for trying to get Prop. 8 passed, because later down the road, the Mormon Church saw that it was wrong to continue to push that issue, and as you know, the Church refused to help financially with the Court Battle as it made it’s way up to the US Supreme Court. I love my fellow Mormons with all my heart, and as a gay Mormon myself, I do not want any other gay Mormon to feel they will never love. YOU WILL! Heavenly Father just wants you to find another same sex person who is of a higher level. Don’t settle for some gay man who drinks, swears, is a slob, takes the Lords name in vain, is promiscuous, etc… Find a gay man who is equal with a heart of true love, who is also a Mormon, who loves Heavenly Father. If you do this, I believe you can love as a Gay Mormon.

  • Me

    What a fake video! There are so many ununderstanding Mormons. They’d probably send him to a mental home!

  • Dave

    However you feel about this boy’s coming out, I take issue with the argument made that single life is equal to misery. It’s a good thing to help discouraged gay people feel more self-worth, but not at expense of single people. This article tells me that if I am single, whether or not by my own choice, I cannot be happy. I am not gay, but it’s the same thing. If I have no hope for companionship, why can’t I be as happy as you? It may very well be a crazy thing to voluntarily choose single-life, but I do believe even this boy can be happy. Where the mormon church may harm this boy, is by swarming him with messages about needing marriage. Churches promote non-singlehood too much, and now even the gay community is doing the same. If you believe companionship is a good thing, that’s fine, but show a bit more regard for singles, instead of painting single life as a deep pit of despair that can only be escaped through partnership.

  • mhardy

    Dear John,

    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the whole concept of religion, probably because you’re not religious yourself. It’s all about sacrifice. We make sacrifices for our faith not because we are coerced or brain-she but because we love our God. We show God we love him more than anything else. That may mean giving up homosexual relationships, sex before marriage, alcohol, tobacco, pornography, or anything else that keeps us from God. What you call repression I call living according to a higher standard. And yes, it brings more happiness than you will probably ever know. So don’t go about judging a religion until you have lived it yourself. Don’t go about tearing down someone’s faith, a faith that you will probably never understand.

  • deathbringer14

    I’m a Mormon, and my best friend is gay.

    Just so you know, I would have absolutely no reservations with him watching my children. It’s not even an issue for me. Judging someone on their ability to watch children based on their sexual orientation is wrong, and I think you’d find that most Mormons would feel the same way I do.

  • Guest

    I’m a Mormon, and my best friend is gay.

    Just so you know, I would have absolutely no reservations with him watching my children. It’s not even an issue for me. Judging someone on their ability to watch children based on their sexual orientation is wrong, and I think you’d find that most Mormons would feel the same way I do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=611139873 Aranka King

    This is horrible, I just feel sad for him :(

  • vonlmo

    Gay Mormons who choose to stay withing the LDS fold are better off dead. Trying to live a dual identity is too much of a mind-fuck to reconcile. These are messed up people. Attn, gay LDS, make your choice or get off the planet.

  • tomtallis

    He’s a perfect example of Mormon hive mind.

    He’s also as ugly as a stump. No wonder he’s celebate.

  • http://twitter.com/Narnia1963 Lu McNeal

    This is fucked up. I fee so bad for this guy that he feels that he can never fall in love!

  • http://buddybest.tripod.com/index.html BuddyNovinski

    Over a decade ago, I discovered a gay Catholic teenager through the Matthew Shepard site, and I told him that he would leave the chruch over his oreintation. I had left over their bullying on legal abortion about a decade earlier. Well, he’s a Unitarian now!

  • http://www.ryanstake.net RyansTake

    Evidence-based belief? Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    Kidding aside… Where’s the evidence? Show me some cold, hard scientific evidence that proves the existence of any religion and I’ll be the first to jump to your church. It simply doesn’t exist, but good luck trying.

    PS. I was being kind by saying I don’t care whether or not you or anyone believe in a religion, so long as they don’t try to push their beliefs on the rest of society. You repaid that kindness by throwing around a bunch of ad hominoms, while failing to provide any of the evidence you promised exists. It speaks very poorly on your post, but I’ll give you the chance to provide the evidence you promise exists.

  • Atheism is Non Sequitir

    There are so, so, so, so many fallacies and factual errors in this tiny little post that I must congratulate you on strengthening my evidence-based belief in a creator. A bit contrary, I must admit, but I reason that if anyone has a serious argument then one should expect to see it as opposed to conjecture, assumption and/or fabrication. Your lack of anything resembling a serious argument in your opportunity to do so in the laughably juvenile post above lends me to believe that you lack any of the sort.

  • BetterThanYou

    You people are idiots. Seriously. Who are YOU to define another person’s identity? Who are YOU to tell him how to live? He has his values and is living according to them. Those values may change. Those values may not change. It’s not your place to demand that he appease your phony and hypocritical emotional appeals. Your values- that of demanding that people live in a way that supports your twisted and selfish social agenda- are disturbing to me.

    *waits 10 seconds*

    Nope, I’m not Mormon nor homophobic. Try swallowing that down your shallow feeding tube of self-congratulatory ignorance.

  • Skeptical Cicada

    OMG spare us the mindless propaganda and read some contemporary cosmology. Scientists have moved so far beyond your outdated “where did the big bang come from” idiocy. You’re embarrassing yourself and don’t even know it.

  • Skeptical Cicada

    LOL!! Calling out the Mormon church for its virulent anti-gay bigotry is not “anti-Mormon bigotry,” dear. We understand that whine is a bullying tactic, an effort to hold us down and force us to say that Mormon contempt for gays is a perfectly valid and legitimate attitude. Sorry, bigot, you aren’t getting validated by this faggot. Now go run along and learn your next anti-gay line and see if you can ratchet up your baseless sanctimony even farther.

    I agree with Stev84. Nothing about this video seems the least bit plausible or real. No one who has come out to a parent could possibly find that mother’s flippant reaction credible. This entire thing is fake. It probably is planted by the Mormon hierarchy.

  • Skeptical Cicada

    LOL!!! So sorry to have to be the one to inform you, dear, but being “obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices” perfectly describes most anti-gay Christians when it comes to anything about gay sexuality, same-sex relationships, or gay people. No amount of evidence will convince them that we are not all diseased, sociopathic, degenerate, miserable, unstable, irresponsible, promiscuous pedophiles who were supposedly abused as children and somehow “choose” to get erections only from attractions to men. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever that decades of solid scholarship has cast grave doubt on the virulently anti-gay interpretations they have placed on about three Bible verses, scholarship they reject without even reading. The fact same-sex relationships produce absolutely no harm justifying condemnation never makes them pause to think that if their anti-gay beliefs are correct then they are worshiping an arbitrary and irrational deity who creates harmless variation in human sexuality just to condemn millions of people with the minority version. Yes, dear, they are quite “obstinately [and] intolerantly devoted to [their] own opinions and prejudices,” often completely ill-informed about any facts of gay existence and even stupidly ignorant of the well known problems with their own biased interpretations of their own damn scriptures. They are, in a word, bigots–extreme ones. The very concept of unthinking, unquestioning “faith” is a perfect mechanism for harboring and perpetuating ill-informed bigotry.

    And, no, precious, correctly applying a word to a phenomenon and, in this case, calling out bigotry are not themselves bigotry. That is a mindless anti-gay retort. You’ve learned your far-right talking points well! Go get yourself a cookie and a pat on the head from your local hate-mongering cleric.

    That you imagine there is nothing whatsoever wrong with people maligning, defaming, mocking, and dehumanizing an entire class of people, our relationships, our character, and our very existence tells me you may even be a sociopath. You can go look that word up too.

  • UncleBucky

    Nobody was there. OK. And they were scared (until someone touched up the story Mark wrote)! ;o)

  • KennAgata

    If I had not read the narrative above I would have thought this was a parody or satire. I still cannot wrap my head around Jimmy’s humourous and carefree attitude. His mother’s reaction was most disturbing of all. I still do not believe this is real. I also do not think that he will truly be able to remain celibate his entire life. Hopefully, when least expected he WILL fall in love with someone who will be able to draw him out and make him comfortable enough to feel guiltless that part of a truly loving, responsible and mature relationship between two people includes sexual expression of that love as well. So much is wrong in a world full of clergy of all faiths that preach celibacy. It is not in our nature to be thus so. Suppression of our sexual nature usually results in the darker actions that human beings are capable of.

  • Stephen Clark

    LOL! Postmortem “outing” ceremonies for Mormon leaders. I love it!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Beautiful testament!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Maybe it’s high time the GLTBQ community start baptising all Mormons dead or alive into the Heaven of the Rainbow for the sake of their damaged sinful ways.. We’ll start with Joseph Smith. The planet Gaylob is calling!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    The proof is right there in the Bible: They rolled back the stone of the tomb and there was NO BODY.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    keeper heaven is true love!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Just stringing you along for fun guys.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Yep!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Cain and Able were the result of the Big Bang.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “If you believe in life after death then remaining celibate for the next 60-80ish years is rather short, relatively.” Oh boy, if that isn’t encouraging. Mormonism is a living death.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Yes!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    correction: Still having my journey.” I know a lot of guys just like him who are very happy.” Very sad.

  • UncleBucky

    Won’t we? Well a lot of this stuff can’t be tested by the scientific methods of this Universe. That’s true enough, which is what you are hinting at? On the other hand, if matter is eternal and is never destroyed, then, the Big Bang can only be considered in terms of a Multiverse, as I am considering.

  • UncleBucky

    The kid needs a motivation to leave that cult. Religion is nothing more than a delusion, and when that delusion is used to control people as does the LDS, it’s an evil cult.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZNSKHUJ7UPGYMC5NKMHSSLQUMA Loren E

    Having been a Mormon for 50+ years, I rmember well comparisons of the Mormon church with the great and abominable, the Catholic church. One point was only the great and abominable requires celibacy of it’s members, i.e. the priests and nuns. In a sense of arrogance, we would say this proves the Mormon church is the true church scripturally. Now??? What church is now the great and abominable…perhaps always has been?
    My heart goes out to young Hales. I and many many thousands have walked this path as Mormons. Even worse, was for half a century men were counseled to get married to make the gay go away. The travesty foisted on believing members at the cost of integrity and broken homes. Fortunately, I was able to break free not to long ago and discover there is tremendous happiness outside of the Zion wall. Contrary to the lies used against us, there is tremendous happiness to be true and genuine to oneself. There is tremendous joy found in being with the gender that is right to be with, to feel his warmth, his love, the gentleness of his kisses…and know that God is pleased.
    Young Hales, if you get this message, please know there is much love and caring for you from those outside, those who have made this journey before. God in all of his love, created you and us to be just the wonderful spritual loving men that we are. There is nothing wrong with us. What greater gift can He give us but to be holding the hand of the man we love. Take care good man.

  • bbock

    Here’s what will happen to this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmJ56Xc_Vvk

  • gamelan9

    Hi, All. One thing I am not seeing in the comments is that Jimmy has a level of fluency in ASL, sign language. In my totally imperical observation there appears to be a higher %age of deaf/hoh/asl speakers in the LGBT community, regardless of by choice or chance. I’m sure that if BYU has a deaf-ed program it is geared to evangelize rather than socialize.
    My name is Scott (Sc). I sign in as “S” closed hand facing up, palm out, index knuk slightly elevated with thumb in front; and “c” same position with thumb and index finger forming a “c”. It’s simple, really.

  • Stephen Clark

    Nice try. But when gay folks resist your church’s dehumanizing personal attacks on our very existence, that’s not bigotry; it’s self-defense. If you didn’t want a war with the gay community, your Church should have stuck to its own flock and kept it bigoted nose out of the legal rights of us non-Mormons. But it didn’t. So since the Mormon church has decided to try to force us all to adhere to its bigotry, everything about that church is now open to thorough, unmitigated critique. Sorry, but you don’t to ram that religion down our throats by force if law and then tell us we have no right to criticize it. Lets start with its history of polygamy and racism, shall we? And you can criticize the gay community the second we lead a crusade to pass constitutional amendments outlawing your worship. Until then, you need to go reflect on the hate-filled anti-gay bigotry of your church and come to terms with it.

  • Stev84

    String Theory is an elegant mathematical model, but it doesn’t really explain anything:
    http://xkcd.com/171/

    It shouldn’t even be called a theory because it doesn’t have evidence, nor is it even testable

  • bbock

    It is concerning how articulate a case he makes for Mormons and being celibate. It’s a disastrous path, of course. Everyone wants to love someone and be loved by someone. Some people have difficulty finding this. But when you CHOOSE to deny this to yourself, I think that’s damaging. Obviously if he WANTED to find love, I doubt he’d have a hard time doing it. He’s young, attractive, intelligent and funny. (Bastard!) Most of that will stay with him his entire life, most likely. So look at it this way, he’s still in his coming out process. Right now he believes the best path for him is Mormonism and celibacy. But before recently, coming out was unthinkable to him. Who knows what his future will bring. My guess is some day he’s going to fall in love with someone and he’ll reevaluate. A lot of gay people have a denial phase. Then they have the bargaining phase where they tell themselves they are bisexual (as opposed to real bisexuals), and eventually they settle into who they really are. He has plenty of time to do this if he chooses. I hope it’s sooner than later, for his sake. Sneaking around or hating yourself for wanting love is a hell of a way to live.

    I am troubled how this will be viewed by some people who try to keep the nice smile on the face of Mormon bigotry. You can see it in his video. I think he thinks all those people are truly thrilled for him because they are laughing and smiling. But I get the feeling that’s a Mormon coping mechanism. Only they know.

    I see some good things here. Mormons can see that gays aren’t evil and are their family and friends. It’s harder to hate people you know. And some might start to question how it could be right that Heavenly Father would make a man (or a woman) who was never to know true love. The Mormon Church is a little more fluid in its beliefs. Their prophets (the leader of the church) have divine revelations that change church doctrine from time to time. Like saying polygamy is good, then polygamy is bad. Or Blacks bear the mark of Cain and can’t hold the priesthood to saying we like black folks and they are welcome. It’s not unreasonable to believe the Church will eventually become more accepting of their GLBT family and friends and will move to seeing them as fully deserving of human dignity, including to love and be loved. Although I can’t imagine it will happen soon enough for Jimmy. So I hope he falls madly in love. We all deserve that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.hull.397 Gary Hull

    So well said!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ed.adams.370 Ed Adams

    lol. being gay is not an issue. being part of a cult like mormonism that views being gay as an issue is an issue.

  • EdA

    The lad is certainly attractive enough (several senses) in the video. But the video does not seem authentic; it seems miuch more like a corporate production designed to encourage kids who happen to be Mormon and gay to stay connected (and contributing?) to an organization that does not accept their right to engage in loving physical relationships.

    Perhaps I’m wrong. I haven’t looked at any other videos ostensibly from him. But I don’t think so.

  • Noxy

    For once I’m in full agreement with you, John.

  • SkippyFlipjack

    His mom’s kinda hot.

  • http://www.ryanstake.net RyansTake

    There are actually a few Christian sects that don’t assume or suggest all the others are going to hell… but they are relatively few and far between, unfortunately, and certainly none of the ones that tend to have the biggest influence in American politics.

  • http://www.ryanstake.net RyansTake

    You said the scary thing a lot of us were thinking. Hopefully it’s the former, and not the later. Thankfully, the chances are much greater it will be the former… but sadly this kid is not starting from a position of strength.

    I dearly hope he removes himself from the BYU/Utah/etc. setting, and goes and lives somewhere that he can see normal people treating gay people normally. That would be a big start.

  • http://www.ryanstake.net RyansTake

    Atheism is a prejudice? Pray, tell, how does my lack of beliefs “prejudice” you?

    PS. Religion does fit the definition of a delusion, in that it’s something people not only believe, but believe fervently, despite the lack of any evidence whatsoever. I won’t hold it against anyone for having a faith system, unless they use that faith system to persecute others.

  • http://www.ryanstake.net RyansTake

    You are not alone in having that reaction. I saw this a few days ago on towleroad and was pretty flabbergasted that anyone could see this as anything else beyond a truly damaged human soul.

    The only hope I have is that this kid is still young and will probably learn better within a few years. However, like you, John, I worry that other kids will see this and think that it reaffirms the viability of a ‘celibate’ life (in which ‘celibate’ probably isn’t all that celibate at all — just substituting meaningful sexual relationships with potentially dangerous or psychologically damaging ones).

  • InvasiveHeartDoc

    Well, they are coming out now, and we love them. So take that.

  • InvasiveHeartDoc

    Official Mormon PR campaign? Hilarious. You are the one who’s brainwashed. The Mormon church wouldn’t touch this for fear of looking involved. Does it help the church’s PR? You bet. But this guy is a brave young man who is laying out not only his sexuality, but his deep religious beliefs to the world. Its not easy to face anti-gay bigots AND anti-Mormon bigots at the same time. Yes, you fit, so wear the shoe until you can learn to be tolerant.

  • InvasiveHeartDoc

    You had your journey, let him have his. I know a lot of guys just like him who are very happy. If at some point he feels like he needs to find a partner, so be it, but let him figure it out on his own. He feels loved and accepted. Let it be.

  • InvasiveHeartDoc

    Nice, make this kid feel even worse by demeaning his religion. Release the hate, it will tear you up.

  • dula

    There is no virtue to celibacy if it is inspired by fear and self-loathing, though more Mormons should practice celibacy instead of polygamy…gluttony is a sin.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    The flying Mormbots have been released!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Go John!!!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    We won’t even bring up String Theory.’

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “so if faith in a creator is fraud, then so is faith in the big bang” No, if a cat barks then it follows that it is a dog. Take it on faith. You can test the theory by observation. If the cat that barks has staff it is a cat, if it is a dog, it will be your single BFF for life. This is a major principle of catechism.

  • http://www.myspace.com/_lovedaddy_ JohnnyMorales

    Aravosis is overreacting, even though generally speaking he would be right about all the things the boy says being a synopsys about the evil perpetrated on gay men and women in the name of religion.

    I simply cannot take the young man seriously, and more than I could take seriously a dying man dancing around celebrating his date with eternity.

    His demeanor does not match up with what he is saying.

    The complete lack of any sort of emotion that would reflect the depths of personal sacrifice the guy is committing to cannot simply be written off as him being naive.

    I think the opposite is true. He’s doing his a great job to say something they rather not hear in the best possible way in order to lay the ground work for the day they each realize he is gay without apologies or sacrifices.

    He knows what the standard objections and comments are going to be.

    So rather than wait for them, he incorporates them into his little “I’m gay” schpeal.

    In doing so he nueters the emotional part of their reaction that is usually the truly hurtful part.

    By saying what people want to hear the way they want to hear it said, he ensures the best possible reaction. .

    Rather than simply being a very sad coming out video, he could be trying to convey a way for others who have also been brought up in extremely conservative cultures to buy more time for themselves to get established in the world, before the inevitable moment when they can no longer pretend to be adhereing to the social norms they were raised with in hopes that when that day comes they will be in a position to truly afford whatever losses it brings.

    On a side note, I think the story in later years are the couple of other friends of his who are as obviously gay as he is. Really I couldn’t have been the only one who’s gaydar went off when they were on the screen. LOL

  • InvasiveHeartDoc

    Wow, John. Way to try to ruin a good kid’s attempt to come to grips with who he is, a gay…Mormon. Just because you don’t understand what he believes doesn’t mean you have to tear it down. This is the same kind of bigotry that would treat gays poorly because they aren’t understood. Obviously this young man has deep feelings for his religion that you don’t understand. Don’t rain on his parade.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Slaps forehead and sighs.

  • UncleBucky

    Where does matter come from? Ask an ancient philosopher and then compare what he said with modern scientific findings. Look:

    Points (1-11 of 20) from Greenblatt (2011)
    1. Everything is made of invisible particles.
    2. The elementary particles of matter – “the seeds of the
    things” – are eternal.
    3. The elementary particles are infinite in number but limited
    in shape and size.
    4. All particles are in motion in an infinite void.
    5. The universe has no creator or designer.
    6. Everything comes into being as a result of a swerve.
    7. The swerve is the source of free will.
    8. Nature ceaselessly experiments.
    9. The universe was not created for or about humans.
    10. Humans are not unique.
    11. Human society began not in a Golden Age of tranquility and
    plenty but in a primitive battle for survival.

    Oh oh. Matter is eternal and indestructible. So, Big Bang? IF the Universe has a beginning, then the notion of Multiverse (infinite universes popping in and out) takes care of that. Creation ISN’T.

    There.

  • UncleBucky

    Mm. Where does the faith come from? When does the faith come from? Faith in what?

  • UncleBucky

    Nope. Atheism is logical. Just interrogate the data. No sky god.

  • http://www.myspace.com/_lovedaddy_ JohnnyMorales

    Why do I envision a priest writing this while he eagerly anticipates and plans for the next time his favorite teenage boy shows up needing to confess.

  • UncleBucky

    Nah.

  • UncleBucky

    The feelings are not stupid. Lucretius says:

    20. Understanding the nature of things generates deep wonder.

    You don’t need a religion to do that. Maybe the Hubble telescope latests pics!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    If you take a nap like I did, it’s possible. :-)

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    With the exception of Jesus’ miracle of the wine, it is generally considered that Mr. Satan’s parties are way hot!

  • Fitz

    Sad? You must be joking! This is so inspiring and amazing. He is proving that you can be gay and still virtuous and not give into something he does not believe in. Gayness! He is in total control of his appetites and passions and is to be reverenced for it. You are my hero Jimmy. Admit you have an issue and then overcome it. We are all better people because of you. Doing what God says and not all these people who do not believe as we do. Awesome awesome awesome!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Sigh

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “they often have no way to understand this experience except through a specific religion,” No, not necessarily. The ancient word for this experience is gnosis.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “Atheism is a prejudice just like homophobia,” Well, no. Atheism is logic based on facts. Homophobia is an abreaction based on irrational fear.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Melvin-Dean-Baker/1345608091 Melvin Dean Baker

    That’s all well and good. But the majority of people experience moments of epiphany and transendance that takes them out of themselves into an extraordinary state. The danger is that they often have no way to understand this experience except through a specific religion, which is after all nothing more than a culture created long ago by someone else to try to explain their experience. It isn’t necessary for people who’ve had such experiences to become trapped in someone else’s worldview and bend their lives to fit in a spiritual straightjacket. For those who have not had these spiritual feelings or who feel they aren’t important there is nothing wrong with an atheistic philosophy, but you are unlikely to move people immediately from the former state to the later, nor should you (in my view) dismiss such feelings as stupid or uneducated.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Melvin-Dean-Baker/1345608091 Melvin Dean Baker

    Know some hope for this young man. He is on a journey and like many of us who were raised Mormon he will probably find his way into a life of love and freedom. The one thing about Mormonism is that it is such a totalist philosophy. It claims to be infallible and to have all the answers as the “one true and only church.” At some point this young man will hopefully experience some moment in which he realizes that the church is wrong and since it can’t be wrong about ANYTHING that will shatter his worldview in a way that is more complete and final than in other religions. Let us all offer up our good thoughts for that day for him and for all others held in ignorance and fear by the confusion between true spirituality and mere religious culture.

  • http://www.facebook.com/darr.sandberg Darr Sandberg

    That definition of prejudice certainly applies to atheism, as Stev8f4 modeled.

  • http://www.facebook.com/darr.sandberg Darr Sandberg

    Homophobes characterize homosexuality as delusion, mental illness, and cruel. Your post operates on exactly the same moral level as the opinions of any homophobe. Atheism is a prejudice just like homophobia, and you are no better than any homophobe, including those in the LDS.

  • dula

    I could barely muster the interest to read your bullshit response to my first post, now you expect me to scroll down for more?

  • Don Chandler

    Oh man, I hated those questions too…especially relatives asking the questions….

  • Don Chandler

    Technically speaking, I was gay in the 1950′s as I was born gay ;) I didn’t really question my same-sex attraction until age 12. My coming out was about as messy as this kids but I wasn’t strongly influenced by religion. I also remember stonewall spreading out to the small town I grew up in–a bar being closed down by police and follow-up protests–i was thinking at the time, wow, I’m like those people protesting the bar closing…late sixties.

    I chose to compare coming out in mormon country to the 1980′s in the US because the supreme court upheld Georgia’s sodomy laws in 1986. And much of the country was in retreat of the US cultural revolution that occurred in the 1960′s and 1970′s. The 1980′s sort of reminds me of Russia Today. I could easily hear the Russian Judiciary repeating the words, “a crime not fit to be named” in reference to homosexuality. I remember being depressed when Reagan won in 1980…I didn’t get the sense he was supportive of gay rights…but who was in government…well, some of the supremes dissented in Bowers vs Hardwick:

    Dissent Blackmun, joined by Brennan, Marshall, Stevens

    DissentStevens, joined by Brennan, Marshal

    I love wiki!

  • Russell Miller

    If you read what I wrote below, you would see that I said this already (about being pushed away)…but hey, good original thought…

  • Russell Miller

    Bro, I know about the Big Bang…Thanks for teaching me about the missions….I asked about where the Matter came from and you give me this…end of conversation….

  • dula

    A “viewpoint” that inspires you to consider a minority as inferior, makes you a bigot. When you try to legislate against another’s rights based on your personal beliefs you are a tyrant. Bigoted/tryannical Christians have pushed more people away from Christ than Satan himself.

  • FLL

    You are absolutely right to say that both politicians support targeted assassination. Beyond that, a new war on a vast scale with Iran, the most populous country in the region, would result in the deaths of thousands or tens of thousands of American soldiers and perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iranian soldiers and civilians. That possibility definitely wouldn’t make countless families in both countries feel warmer or fuzzier. Although even one unjust killing is a crime, I find the possibility of killing on a massive scale very disturbing. Only a nutcase on the order of Romney would be eager for something like that. I’m in agreement with you in your condemnation of targeted assassination, and no, I did not vote your comment down.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Sad. Disgusted. Feeling pity for this young man who has learned all the wrong lessons about what it means to come out of the closet: He has not given up the self-hate, or the internalized idea that it is inherently morally wrong to be a gay person.

    I mean, really — he admits to his bishop that he’s gay, the response is “that sucks,” and his response is to assume it means an entire life of celibacy and loneliness? Pardon my French, but that is one seriously fucked up — and ultimately self-destructive — attitude to have.

    I foresee only two possible outcomes. Either one day he’ll change his mind and realize he does not have to do everything a “good Mormon” is supposed to do, and that being in a same-sex relationship isn’t evil or wrong. Or one day he won’t be able to take it anymore and kill himself, as many self-hating individuals do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I was lucky and spared the worst of this nonsense, although my mom wasn’t happy when I came out. Despite being emphatically ex-Catholic she still had a certain social conservatism, I guess. My dad never seemed to care much and there wasn’t any extended family around to worry about.

    It was worse for my fiancé, whose mother went full-tilt Catholic after a rather wild youth and whose extended family is large and rather conservative. Our visits with his folks have always had an unpleasant undercurrent. We’re not allowed to sleep together, for instance. Also he told me once that he’d gone to say hello to some cousins and then, as he was walking away, heard one of them whisper, “He’s the fag.” Good times.

  • Stev84

    The Big Bang has been proven. Look up the COBE and WMAP missions. The COBE team received the Nobel prize in physics in 2005 for showing that the cosmic microwave background radiation matches perfectly with what you’d expect if the universe was once really hot and dense, but has been cooling since then. Another Nobel prize was awarded for discovering the CMBR in the first place.

    Explained here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUH77mYBUtM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1263s

    And anything is more elegant than pretending that some all-powerful, all-knowing complex being has always existed. How did it get there? Freethinker my ass. You’re majorly deluded.

  • UncleBucky

    Hah, but now I do! Thx! (Well, I knew this but in my post, I wasn’t as detailed as you!) But this is why I really think that the RCC could be out of business by 2025 or sooner. I mean, I really see a good chance for ReMaxxx signs going up all over the country and in front of the Vatican. They are going down bad. I DO know what happened to JP1. I wonder what happened to John XXIII’s legacy. Same thing. :(

  • UncleBucky

    “the actions in the bible that have been proven to be true” = Cherry picking.

  • UncleBucky

    Oh, yeah, true dat! Kiss him quick! :)

  • Russell Miller

    So explain to me what scientist believe when it comes to the matter of what became the big bang? Matter, a substance that is neither created nor destroyed…so where did it come from? how did it get there? There is a Faith in believing in the big bang because of these questions….so if faith in a creator is fraud, then so is faith in the big bang

  • Russell Miller

    I’m not trying to get into a bible fight, but I don’t believe in the conventional wisdom of the larger churches…Like I said on the last thread we were on I’m a free thinker…Adam is a common name for the word men…and Eve was the common name for women….as in multiple…so I believe that God created many Adams and Eves….but only the 2 to guard the Garden of Eden….

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Faith—-the first fraud ever invented.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “the actions in the bible that have been proven to be true” Really? So then God approves of incest….How else to you explain the descendents of Adam and Eve, when only Cain and Able were the second generation?

  • Russell Miller

    No voices….just faith….

  • Russell Miller

    You are not lying there…I tried to get baptized as Jesus did…every church wanted me to take a course on their religion…I told them no thanks, and that I wanted to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy Spirit…not those 3 and the _Fill in any major name__Church…I have a friend who is atheist and a few that are just completely turned off by religion, and can’t blame them….

  • Stev84

    That describes most Christians perfectly. Christians can’t even agree on how to worship their god. There are about 30000 different sects and each of them thinks the others are wrong and deserve to be tortured for eternity.

  • Stev84

    And the voices in your head

  • http://www.facebook.com/gdeeming George Deeming

    What about love…I’ve been doing laundry, cleaning house, changing the kitty litter, cleaning the bird cage, cooking, doing the dishes, going shopping, buying candy and flowers, surprising him with little gifts, cutting the lawn, weeding, gardening, driving him anywhere he wants to go,taking care of him when he’s sick, going shopping, visiting his parents and relative EVERY Christmas and holiday, baking, making meals for his masonic dinners, going shopping and more for my man for over 20 years and I love him more than when we first met.

  • Russell Miller

    This is your viewpoint…you have no facts to back this, as I have no facts to disprove this (except the actions in the bible that have been proven to be true)…

  • Russell Miller

    I think the word bigot is misused….Just because one has a religious viewpoint, does not make one a bigot… And any true Christian Faith would accept him into the house of God and not shun him…The goal of the Christian Faith is to bring as many people to Jesus and God as possible in their lifetime…I disagree with the Organized Religions of this world, but disagree with the usage of the word bigot..If you are going to call them a bigot, then you yourself are one…

    Here is the actual definition: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

  • nicho

    And may I recommend — for your viewing pleasure — renting “Latter Days.” A wonderful Mormon coming-out story. Not at all hindered by starring a couple of hunky guys.

  • nicho

    You have no idea what this election is about — unless you read the foreign news. The US MSM is avoiding it like the plague.

    After the Vatileaks scandal, Ratzi commissioned three cardinals to do a study of the Vatican and its inner workings. They presented their report — three volumes of it — in January, and when Ratzi saw it, it was do damning that he decided to bug out.

    Cliques and claques of cardinals, bribery, money laundering, influence peddling, destroying — or promoting — careers and reputations. The thing that they all have their knickers in knots over is that there is apparently a large group of gay cardinals holding secret meetings all over Rome in private villas, cafes, and bath houses. Many cardinals are bring blackmailed, are susceptible to blackmail, or are blackmailing people.

    In short, it makes the Mafia look like a bunch of kids playing cops and robbers.

    I don’t know who would want to try to run that six-ring circus of corruption. Your choices are to:

    1. Just become part of it — like Paul VI, Pius XII or almost everyone before them.
    2. Look the other way — like Wotyla and Ratzi — until it comes up and bites you in the papal ass.

    3. Plan to reform it — like John Paul I — and you know what happened to him.

  • UncleBucky

    One more thing. Celibate until marriage. OK. So then, the kid has to wait until he can marry the guy of his dreams and THEN have sex???? Or are you discriminating against him?

  • UncleBucky

    Why are you so concerned with sex? You never said anything about doing the laundry, making cookies, vacuuming the rugs, going to work, paying bills, feeding the kids, walking the dog, scooping the litter box, changing the paper under the parrot, buying a new washer and dryer, going to the cinema, going shopping, eating out, going shopping, buying candy and flowers, going shopping, and so on with your husband/wife of the same gender! Why are you so concerned about sex? It’s over in a phhttt compared to all the chores, fun times and responsibilities of marriage.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    Right, so they’re not telling the kid to wait until he’s married – as the kid himself notes, he’s going to spend his entire life single, unloved, because his church has taught him that he is a hateful being.

    And yes, people can believe what they want, and when we find people like the Mormons who oppress millions, while at the same time trying to harm gays and lesbians across the entire country who aren’t even Mormon at all, we don’t just have the right, we have the duty, to stand up to their hate and try to save their victims, which include ourselves.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    They want us to tolerate their intolerance. It’s the same argument Republicans use when they get upset that we actually respond to something hateful they say or do. We’re impinging on their right to free speech by exercising our free speech by responding. It’s a GOP fail-safe mechanism for oppression. And it broke :)

  • UncleBucky

    The material soul dies.
    There is no heaven.
    There is no sky god, angels, devils, phantoms, ghosts or spirits.

    When you die, you stop. Death is therefore nothing to you. No Hieronymous Bosch devils or angels messing with you. Simply nothing.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    Why don’t Jews tolerate Nazis?
    Why don’t blacks tolerate the Klan?

    What an absurdly infantile, and typically Republican, statement to make that standing up to bigotry is “intolerant.” Are you intolerant when you chastise someone for using the n-word or trying to tell an n-word joke (because people do, I’ve heard it)? Is that intolerant of me to not like it when they call Jews the k-word, and people do?

    You Republicans are simply upset that you can no longer live in the world and try to hurt millions of people with impunity because your victims finally said “enough.”

    Atlas shrugged, baby. Your day is over.

  • UncleBucky

    Skin bleaching? ;o) But wait… I think some people have been brainwashed into doing that. And straightening hair. And trying to pass. All because a book says something about the “black mark” on one’s head. Sad.

  • UncleBucky

    Yep, he doth protest too much.

  • UncleBucky

    Well, Christ is a myth. Christ was first invented by Paul, the guy who did version 1.0 of seeing a spiritual body of Christ and then making up a religion based on that hallucination. Joe Smith did version 2.0 of that, btw.

    Now, if I may, Jesus was (not is) real. He said some stuff that has turned out to be very good, but those things got covered with Paulist whipped cream and now the fundies/thumpers/mormons/super-catlicks are all workshipping both their Bible and a “whole cloth” Christ (sounds like blasphemy to me! hah!).

  • UncleBucky

    or in the 60s, still, even in the 70s. The questions about girlfriends or setting a date. Now, I would want to slug Mashed Potatoes Lady (at college) for almost weekly asking embarrassing questions like that.

  • UncleBucky

    Relying on Christ. Please operationalize that. Another one with “holy words”. No, not this time. Tell us all here, what it means to “rely” and who the “Christ” is, like “Me and my Shadow?” When you rely, what does that entail? When you don’t rely (or when you are told that you don’t rely), what does that entail? For extra credit, give examples from the Beatitudes, Parables, Lord’s Prayer and Letter of James.

  • Stephen Clark

    How many decades have you been doing it?

  • UncleBucky

    Hey, you mean that Mr. Hat (in South Park) is really a Mr. Sock? :O

  • UncleBucky

    What?

  • UncleBucky

    I’m a Cancer, so that I really made a “nest” for any future hubbie. Well, it got a little complex after 9/11 having to move from that house. But I still think that way. I want nothing more than the house, cat, and hubbie (HCH).

    Like in the film Ma Vie En Rose, where the little kid simply says to his boy playmate, “when we grow up, we can be married”. Just like that.

    And then churches and cults rip up that script and throw it into the fire.

    Not this century, boys and girls. Not this century. I am told that Illinois is coming along very nicely. Well. It’s not over until the Governor Sings. Uh, signs!

  • UncleBucky

    Bravo, Nicho! And for a lot of us, having not yet done the “fuck you, church” yet, the election of some real repressomaniac (Turkson, for example) will give me the full motivation to walk into the Archdiocese of Chicago and ask for my “divorce” papers, as it were. That’ll be interesting.

  • dula

    Looking for approval, acceptance, or understanding from ignorant, bigoted people is a recipe for misery. There are plenty of clubs, groups, organizations, etc. to belong to who will actually want you as a member. Why pick the one where you’re not welcome? There must be a Gay Mormon group by now. Jeez people, it’s not that complicated.

  • UncleBucky

    Lucretius said (~75 years before Jesus):

    (From Greenblatt, S. 2011)
    15. All organized religions are superstitious delusions.
    16. Religions are invariably cruel.
    17. There are no angels, devils or ghosts.
    18. The highest goal of human life is the enhancement of
    pleasure and the reduction of pain.
    19. The greatest obstacle to pleasure is not pain; it’s delusion.

    And that’s that.

  • UncleBucky

    Yep, that’s the nature of being “tolerated”. They still don’t like you anymore.

  • UncleBucky

    Hah! Good one!

  • UncleBucky

    Well. From the description, I won’t watch it. I might punch my laptop screen or put a bag o’ flaming doggy doo on some temple’s gate entrance. Naw, I won’t do that. I’d want to after seeing this. So, I won’t. ;o)

  • Sweetie

    Hardly. This is the “compassionate conservatism” ruse. Yeah, it sucks that we hate you… too bad for you. Keep tithing!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Congratulations!

  • Sweetie

    You’re missing the point, dear. In the Mormon context, marriage isn’t being provided as an option.

  • Sweetie

    Acceptance is a level of heterosexism. Look at the Riddle Scale.

  • Stev84

    The Mormons subjected people to ECT way later than the 50s.

  • Sweetie

    It’s not something to admit to because only people who are misguided talk about tolerance, unless they see it as a stepping stone toward appreciation. Acceptance isn’t the point, either.

    People don’t accept anything anyway. They just tolerate it. Acceptance is tolerance for things people feel they have no control over.

    People in a civilization are supposed to appreciate the work/expertise/diversity of other members, as long as that doesn’t include predation/abuse.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Sorry honey. Acceptance is the last thing I want from you. Nor do I give a shit about your merciful tolerance. I’m more the type to kick your ass instead, or convert you by divine sensations.

  • Sweetie

    In the 1950s, he would have been put into a straight jacket and ECTed.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I know. A hunky thirty-something Jewish rabbi, who’s not married, into S/M and has Father issues? Ding, ding, ding gaydar!

  • Sweetie

    “A life without sex would be terrible enough…”

    You get used to being married after a few years.

  • Sweetie

    Obama’s killing of a 16 year old kid at a barbecue, along with his joke about it, doesn’t make me feel warmer nor fuzzier.

  • Sweetie

    I was more than willing to leave the community I grew up in for a better place. Just because some people are content to be brainwashed and vilified doesn’t mean everyone is.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I’ve always thought God sucked, that’s why I tried religious life. I wanted to be a bride of christ because the drunken Bishop who baptised us was a few kids off the line and I got confirmed as Marie Teressa instead of Patrick. I realized the spiritual dimensions of gaydom, when my first lover used to cry out ‘Good God Almighty’ every time he came—into the spirit.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    It’s might be comparable to making a coming out video in the 1880′s.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Yep, I guess that them’s that can’t do—-pray.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Wrong,

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “the right-wing stereotype that gays are all icky, indecent pervos who
    live for anonymous sexual liaisons in Greyhound bus depots and the like.” The right wing identifies with its own closet. .

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    He’ll take an imaginary lover called Mr. Sock.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Maybe he could be a sister wife.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    What a creepy dweep. “I’m gay. I’m going to be celibate, SUCKS” Through the Mormon glory hole.

  • nicho

    What this country needs is a good metaphysical fitness program.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marco-Luxe/100002339370351 Marco Luxe

    We’re all awaiting the video part 2 – The Unbrainwashing. The only question is when.

  • nicho

    Being gay in the ’80s? You should have tried gay in the ’50s.

  • Just an elbow

    That’s why I left the Baptist church many years ago…

  • http://www.facebook.com/JeffreyKarter Jeffrey Karter

    I love that analogy (half-out is like being half-pregnant).

    Stories like this make me feel both sad and angry. Sad, because there are a lot of Very Good People who are religious, and their religion is holding them back from being all they can be. I mean, I get the whole “love god” thing, and having something bigger than oneself to be part of, but when religion keeps you from being a better person, instead of helping you be a better person, then I think it’s time to move on.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    “Just admit it isn’t tolerance that you want, its acceptance.” I think this is about the only correct thing you’re capable of saying in this matter.

  • DonewithDems

    I agree with you John. I had the very same reaction. I think this young man is only being half-honest with himself and still locking himself in a religious prison which the Mormon church provided for him. He hasn’t yet realized that the church has absolutely no power over him. Like Josh Weed, I think one day he’s going to meet a man who will knock him off his feet and he’ll be hard pressed to continue living this self-hate life his “loving” and “empathetic” religion has laid out for him. Then he’ll see who his real friends and loved ones are and I suspect, most of those in this video won’t be so supportive.
    I also noticed that if you look close, after he tells each person he is gay in the video, there is a very brief flash of revulsion that comes over each person’s face. It’s very quick, but if you watch, you see it. Watch the eyes and face closely of each one and you’ll see a brief shadow pass.

  • BIgDealOverNothing

    Not to overstay my welcome or anything… but it is the epitome of irony that the LGBT community teaches “tolerance” when anyone that disagrees with them is labeled a bigot. Just admit it isn’t tolerance that you want, its acceptance. And………….begin hating, the gayest thing about demanding tolerance in the name of “love.”.

  • Don Chandler

    You know, Today’s youth are very brave. I have very little interest in making youtubes! But putting it all out there in a mormon context is quite brave. It’s might be comparable to making a coming out video in the 1980′s…. Ultimately, any public comments or youtubes invites criticism. I think people should be supportive and encourage Jimmy to keep searching. He does have some appeal. It was very painful for me to watch, but no pain, no gain.

    In the 1950′s, the US was “father knows best”. In the 1960′s and 1970′s, feminism and black power. In the 1980′s, Reagan and Chief Justice Warren Burger’s assent in bowers v. hardwick “emphasiz[ing] historical negative attitudes toward homosexual sex, quoting Sir William Blackstone’s characterization of sodomy as “a crime not fit to be named.”[2] Burger concluded, “To hold that the act of homosexual sodomy is somehow protected as a fundamental right would be to cast aside millennia of moral teaching.”–a wiki reference i can never forget. Or maybe the 1980′s was about Jesse Helm, nuff said.

    But being mormon and gay can’t be easy…yeah, a “bummer”. Yeah, sucks, just like it did being gay in the 1980′s. Religion creates an anachronistic setting that just sucks.

  • BIgDealOverNothing

    I don’t see why you view the choice to be celibate as so oppressive. Is teaching people to wait to have sex until marriage also oppressive? The problem with your analysis is that it’s based on an opinion totally uninformed regarding Mormon teachings. Whether or not you believe any religion is right, isn’t it a human right to believe in what you want and act accordingly? If you believe in life after death then remaining celibate for the next 60-80ish years is rather short, relatively.

  • PeteWa

    I eagerly await the ten year “I’m still gay and so happy about being celibate!” follow up video.
    or not.
    man, was that depressing.

  • Don Chandler

    Any time someone starts with “it’s hard to explain…” you know things are going metaphysical.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Huh. My earlier attempt at a comment disappeared for some reason…I’ll try again and hope I’m not inadvertently doubling up.

    He will suppress his feelings. He will stuff them. For a time. Then, the feelings will get too much and one day/night, he will find himself in a men’s room or cruising around a park, until he finds a kindred soul who, if he’s lucky, won’t be a police officer on a sting. He’ll have sex, get some physical release, but then go home hating himself for having “failed.”

    I think this is part of the plan, in a way. The right-wing religionists would have us believe that homosexuals are all icky, indecent, and obsessed with sexual gratification above all else, ready at a moment for anonymous liaisons in bathhouses and public restrooms. The more that homosexuality is condemned and criminalized, the more likely that it’s forced underground into such furtive, unhealthful activities, and the more it gives the fundies reason to crow about how disgusting and unnatural homosexuality is.

    Hence, I suspect, the Jesus freaks’ histrionic opposition to the very notion of marriage equality. The last thing they want is for homosexual couples to be comfortably married and domestic; it cuts against the stereotype.

  • BlueIdaho

    Sad doesn’t even begin to describe this video. This happens daily in the closeted Mormon enclaves here in Utah and Idaho. These kids are brain-washed from a very early age and the tragedy is they think they are doing their church a service by denying themselves the right to love and be who they are. I know their adult fathers frequent the rest stops, bookstores and peruse the ads on Craigslist. What a sad pathetic life he has to look forward to.

  • Stephen Clark

    And why their youthful marriages fail.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    “Then, the feelings will get too much and one day/night, he will find himself in a men’s room or cruising around a park, until he finds a kindred soul who, if he’s lucky, won’t be a police officer on a sting. He’ll have sex, get some physical release, but then go home hating himself for having ‘failed.’”

    I think that’s part of the plan, really. I’ve long though that one reason that the concept of homosexual couples marrying gets the Bible-Belt types to frothing at the mouth is that, if such couples are allowed to settle down into married domesticity, it plays against the right-wing stereotype that gays are all icky, indecent pervos who live for anonymous sexual liaisons in Greyhound bus depots and the like. The more homosexuality is condemned and criminalized, the more likely it is to be channeled into such furtive and unsatisfying activities, which gives the Jesus freaks a reason to crow about how disgusting and unnatural homosexuality is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.d.brumm Patrick D Brumm

    The bishop did not respond with church doctrine, sounds like the bishop is sympathetic. Perhaps the bishop has some gay in him as well, and sees a chance to groom a young man.

  • nicho

    A huge part of coming out is the decision to live your life fully and completely as who you are. I knew I liked guys for years — hating myself all the time and figuring I would die alone — as I was taught by the Catholic church. I was not out until I said “fuck you” to the church and started living authentically as a gay man — not as a seriously repressed gay man trying to hammer myself into a fucked up religious mold.

    Let me tell you what this kid is in for.

    He will suppress his feelings. He will stuff them. For a time. Then, the feelings will get too much and one day/night, he will find himself in a men’s room or cruising around a park, until he finds a kindred soul who, if he’s lucky, won’t be a police officer on a sting. He’ll have sex, get some physical release, but then go home hating himself for having “failed.” He may even hate himself while he’s getting the physical release. He’ll pray and promise himself that he’ll never do it again. And he won’t — until the next time.

    Eventually, like a good friend of mine did, he won’t be able to resolve the dissonant feelings between wanting to be a “good Mormon” and having irrepressible gay desires, which he will act on from time to time. Then, he will begin to indulge in self-destructive behavior.

  • nicho

    Christ is a myth. A sex drive is real.

  • Stephen Clark

    Do you realize how presumptuous it is for you to assume that anyone who disagrees with your particular beliefs is “non-religious”?

    Your comment, moreover, dodges the fundamental question why one would need to rely on any god to resist one’s innate sexual orientation. Should one also resist one’s skin color and gender?

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Yeah. His co-religionists will be smiling and polite enough, I suppose, yet still mutter under their breaths that they can’t leave him alone with their children.

  • http://www.facebook.com/epblaisdell Ed Blaisdell

    I had the same incredulous reaction to this video. So sad.

  • FLL

    Just thinking that there was any possibility we might have had one of these nutjobs in the White House makes me shudder. So an evil moron had the hots for some blond kid in high school and responded by kicking him to the ground and giving him a haircut. How does he deal with repressed Mormon sexuality? Promise to wage holy war on Iran. What could go wrong?

  • Stephen Clark

    I agree with your reaction to the dysfunctional message of this video, John.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    First: as Mr. Aravosis points out, if you think it’s just about sex, you’re honestly mistaken at best, a prurient son of a bitch at worst. Seriously, some of this right-wing religious clowns seem to think more about sex in a day than I do in a month.

    Second, I don’t believe you. There’s something I’ve noticed about the folks who thump their Bibles (or their Books of Mormon) the loudest: their religious faith is supposedly the strongest pillar that upholds them, the rock upon which they base their entire lives; yet it is also so precarious and weak that reading the wrong book or seeing two men hold hands could bring it crashing down. Hence society must be so ordered as to protect the religious from even the slightest heretical influence. If “relying on Christ” is so powerful then why does it need to be cosseted and insulated so much? Dropping Jesus’s name every other sentence is not a sign of strength.

  • Stev84

    A lot of young fundies view marriage mainly as a permission to fuck. It’s why they get married so early.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    Love and marriage and intimate relationships are about more than just sex. I’m always amazed how antigay bigots think marriage is only about f’g. Says a lot about them.

  • Stev84

    Worley is NOM troll

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=581995565 Michael Worley

    It’s hard to explain to someone non-religious, but for a Mormon, relying on Christ is one of the few things more powerful than a sex drive… and that makes all the difference.

  • Stev84

    It’s part of the official Mormon PR campaign they are waging to get over the Prop 8 debacle. Like Josh Weed he will be used by Mormons as an example to their gay relatives. They are going to ask them “Why can’t you be like him?”. Just watch. I agree and don’t understand the applause. He is despicable. Nothing but a brainwashed fool. The only hope is that he still young and trapped at BYU. So he may yet grow up.

    Also, “empathy”? I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means. Empathy is generally in very short supply among cultists

  • Jay

    Agree entirely. I have been disgusted by those who see this video as positive.

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    I really don’t know what would be good to say to this kid. Some sort of vitriolic rant about how religion sucks or whatnot would be completely useless and possibly harmful. I do feel like telling him, “The people you are attempting to make common cause with as a ‘good Mormon’ are now your enemies and will likely always be your enemies. Advertising your piety will not help; it doesn’t matter any more how fervently you practice your Mormonism and it doesn’t matter if you never so much look at another man ever again. At best you can hope for second-class status. You’ll be pitied, maybe, but never trusted.”

    But what’s the point. You can’t just tear the kid away from the only community he’s ever known, not all at once. I suppose the break will eventually come, after much misery and struggling to a conformity that is now permanently out of his grasp. Maybe he’ll even convince himself it’s his Mormon duty to marry and father children and maintain some imitation of domestic contentment for some years before the inevitable catches up with him.

    If this ends happily for him I’ll be very surprised.

  • MyrddinWilt

    The worst part of the pedophile priest scandal was the mental torture. Fucking a kid is one thing. Fucking a kid and telling them that they are going to hell for being fucked takes it to a whole new level.

    When you get down to it, authoritarian religions are all child abuse. They are run by douchebag control freaks with no morals who get off by micromanaging other people and threatening them with hell if they disagree.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    He did come out. What he did certainly fits the definition of coming out, but what a waste of a life. A life without sex would be terrible enough, but a life without intimate love would be unbearable. I can’t imagine the shared laughter and crying not being part of his life.

  • JamesR

    THIS is a gay Mormon coming out story. With the lot of gender role and sex stereotyping a bit more clearly delineated and exposed. Plus it has a kick ass recipe in it: http://www.gaymormonstories.com/Losing_My_Religion.html

    Jimmy, you’re only halfway out of the closet. which is like half-pregnant. Keep going, ’cause you will whether you think you intend to or not. It gets better, when you’re done, which you’re not. Yet.

    And P.S. this video is ‘not even boobs’ creepy as fuck. Must. Eat. Custard. Now.

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