Will the Mormons knife the Boy Scouts if gay ban is lifted?

The Mormons get upset when we point out that their faith is based, among other things, on a rabid activist hatred of gays, and disdain for Jews, women (Mormons were one of the lead forces to down the ERA), African-Americans and other minorities.  But facts are fact.  Talk to someone like President Obama, whose mother was forcibly, and secretly, baptized by the Mormons in order to convert her to Mormonism after her death, and without her son’s knowledge, and then decide if there’s not an element of bullying to the Mormons’ evangelism.

But the Mormons have a chance to begin to wipe the slate clean.

Clearly they’ve been burned, and surprised, by the level of vitriol and ill-will created by their own actions in single-handedly ripping the right to marry away from gay couples in California in 2008.  (Funny how your victims tend to end up not liking you very much.)  The only way Mormons are going to clear their name, and in the more immediate time-frame stop the hemorrhaging of bad news, is to start showing the world that they are not the modern equivalent of southern segregationists, that Salt Lake City is not Selma, and that Joseph Smith is not Bull Connor.

If the Mormons want to stop being hated, they need to prove that they’ve stopped hating.  And they have the perfect opportunity today.  The Mormons need to come out and support the Boy Scouts lifting the ban on gay scouts and gay scout masters.

As you may know, the Boy Scouts are in the midst of deciding whether to lift the gay-ban as early as next week.  It’s not a full lifting – the Scouts would still permit local troops to practice discrimination (which is more than a bit of a cop out), but still, it would send an important message nationwide if the Boy Scouts chose to lift their nationwide ban on gay scouts.

As you also may know, the Mormons have been heavily involved in Scouting for years.  Every Mormon boy is automatically enrolled in the Scouts. The NYT has more:

In 2011, Mormon-sponsored packs and troops accounted for more than one-third of the country’s scout units, and the 421,000 boys they enrolled, from ages 8 to 18, made up 15 percent of the country’s 2.7 million registered scouts. (Because every ward has its own unit, many Mormon-sponsored troops are smaller than average.) They have provided comparable shares of the $51 million in dues the Boy Scouts of America collects each year, although the Boy Scouts, with revenues of $269 million in 2010, also receive large corporate donations and make tens of millions of dollars selling scout supplies.

The Mormons have generally refused to clarify their position on gay scouts and scout masters.  Typically they defer to the national Scouts’ ban.  But  now that the national ban is being called into question, what will the Mormons do?  Will they take a position now, before the ban is lifted?  And what will the Mormons do after the ban is lifted, if it is?


Many believe the Mormons have a sort of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy on gay scouts and gay scout masters.  Which is a bit of a misnomer.  What it seems to amount to is a ban on gay scouts and gay scout masters, but if you hide who you really are, then it’s okay.  That’s a bit like saying you ban blacks, but if you can pass as white, you’ll be permitted entrance.  That’s not DADT, that’s simply discrimination.

But what will the Mormons do if the national Scouts defer to locals to decide whether to practice bigotry or not?  Will the Mormons pull the same bizarre standard they have for letting gays remain Mormons: namely, that you have to be celibate?  Now, I’m not too worried about Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts being required to be celibate, so long as the rule applies to all of them, and is equally applied in practice.  Let’s face it, we’re talking high school kids here, and the gay ones are just as likely as the straight ones to fool around.  So long as it’s applied equally, fine.  I do have a problem with requiring all gay Scout masters to be celibate, even married ones.  Unless that same rule is applied to all straight Scout masters, then the Mormons will be enforcing a policy of discrimination.

But the Mormons have a choice.  They can break with their decades-long effort to oppress women and minorities nearly every chance they get, and they can embrace gay scouts and gay scout masters.  The Mormons need to issue a statement now saying that they not only support lifting the ban on gay scouts and scout masters at the national level, but that they agree with Mitt Romney, that gays should be permitted in the Scouts, period.  No cute little celibacy rules that apply to all gays but only some straights.  But a blanket policy that doesn’t give a hoot about your sexual orientation, and doesn’t play games by claiming that “married” gays don’t have to be celibate but, oh look, the Mormons don’t recognize any gays as married!

If the Mormons come out now and take a clear stand against anti-gay bigotry, they can being to cleanse the black mark of bigotry that has been on their name for too long.

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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  • Mike Tebow

    The writer of this article has HIV from sucking diiick and from putting his cooock into the shitter of another man. Live with that.

  • Mike Tebow

    Gays can’t donate blood because of HIV, did you know that? Mormons rock and this gay dude has a bad agenda. Obama murdered his own grandmother and this punk wants to use him as an example of good? Crack kills

  • Anti Troll

    Go hide in a hole JamesR. You are the biggest troll. Get out from behind your computer and go have a real conversation.

  • California Mormon

    First, how did Mormons single handily rip gay marriage away from California. Looked it up, Mormons only represent 2% of Californians yet a majority of Californians voted to ban gay marriage. In fact in 2000, 63% of California voted yes on prop 22 which defined marriage as one man, one woman… As far as them hating jews, etc… Rubbish. I’m Mormon. My girlfriend in high school was Jewish. Anyway, too many inaccuracies/false statements to insight hate and prejudice toward my religion. Not enough to address them all here, but this author is very prejudiced and is obviously using scouting, which I love, to promote his anti-Mormon crap.

  • Ryan Budge

    Thank you for your clear and eloquent words. I am a Scout master who feels the exact same way.

  • Ryan Budge

    Scouting is very much about what happens in your bedroom, and your house, and your school, The Boy Scouts of America is not Vegas. We have rules to live by, an honor code, when you mess with morality in the scouts that code is changed, Go form another organization and stop coming after ours. Why can Gays not be happy with doing their own thing? I cant join a womans fitness center and dont have the desire to, I would certainly not sue them so I can join. Do your own thing and let it be.

  • That pun is so much funnier coming from you than the other five million people who’ve said it.

  • Alan

    I was going to comment in more detail about this article but the first sentence clearly explains to me that this author has no understanding about Mormons or their beliefs. This article and its suggestions are a load of crap.

  • cjhebgen

    I just sent this message to BSA National headquarters moments ago:

    I feel it my duty as an Eagle Scout and active leader in Boy Scouts for over 15 years, to let you know my feelings regarding the pending vote of allowing homosexual boys and leaders participate in Scouting. Simply put, I am against it. It cheapens the Eagle award and goes against everything the Scout Oath states. If this passes, I will cease to donate to the BSA annually, which is a generous donation, and chalk up my Eagle award, and that of my son’s, of having a different value pre-2013. I will cease to participate in Scouting at any level. It is a shame that the National Scouting Organization would succumb to the bully pupit of the gay movement. If you accept the gay lifestyle, I see no reason to keep “morally straight” in the Scout Oath, nor any reason to teach any moral foundation to young men, including fornication, adultery or any other sexual perversion.

    The next movement will demand that Scouting remove all references to “God” in the Oath and organization. Although I’m sure that those who felt it’s meaning in Scouting will long be gone from the organization by then anyway.
    It is interesting that those who scream for “tolerance” rarely reciprocate.

    Where is the backbone of the Organization? Where is the strong leadership Scouting teaches? Where are the leaders who are not swayed by amoral movements?
    If this vote passes, I recommend hiring lots of temp workers in the mail room to handle the deluge of Eagle Scouts returning their award.

  • AH

    In two minutes I found this Phillip Smith, graduate of Stanford give this presentation.


  • AH

    I think you have a misconstrued understanding of baptism for the dead. We do it so that they too can have exaltation, which is the greatest glory God has to give His children, not so that they can become eternal servants. Outer Darkness is where Lucifer and the third of the hosts of Heaven who followed him (pre earth life) will be cast, as well as a select few who will refuse Christ at judgement day after they have a complete and perfect knowledge that Jesus indeed is the Christ and Son of God.

    We are the only christian religion that I know of that believes that most if not nearly all of God’s children (you and me included) will receive a glorious eternal destination and place to dwell, even the worst of sinners. Yes, there will be different glories as the sun differs in glory from the moon and the stars, yet it will be glorious.

  • AH

    Paul, from your response it is obvious you have read something second hand and definitely not the Book of Mormon.

  • AH

    In my scouting experience in a LDS troop, (and we did have a boy who admitted he was “gay”,) we allowed him and encouraged him to participate in all of our scouting activities. His “gayness” was not an issue because he didn’t make it the issue, which gay activists are trying to do. They are making it about “being gay” and not about boys becoming men. That is the policy of my church.

  • Paul Ahnert

    I am an Assistant Scoutmaster, a former Scout, the father of 2 scouts and the husband of a Den mother, needless to say BSA is a major part of our family’s life. I am heartbroken that the BSA has decided to compromise it’s moral stand for the almighty dollar. Make no mistake, the BSA has clearly stated it’s position on homosexuality. Part of the scout oath is to be Morally Straight. There is no other meaning behind that statement. BSA went to the Supreme Court to retain the right to exclude homosexuals. Now that money is tight the BSA is suddenly feeling socially conscious? If the BSA should lift the ban on homosexuals, I will have to wonder if the god sworn to in the Scout oath is named MONEY rather than being the one true God, the creator.
    Those of you who are scouts and feel that lifting the ban will not affect your troop because you meet in a Church or are able to “choose” whether or not to allow homosexuals in will be in for a rude awakening when you attend inter troop or pack events. This is a hot button issue, and given the history of those who want to politicize every issue, you can expect people who are more interested in pushing an agenda than participating in the scouting experience to make a spectacle of themselves. This has nothing to do with tolerance or acceptance, it is financial for BSA and political for those outside the organization who are pushing to lift the ban. I wonder if BSA will disclose what was promised to them if the ban was lifted in terms of financial support. I wonder if the BSA realizes that the move to lift the ban will force most churches to drop sponsorship and cause many Christian families to flee in droves.
    My family will be forced to make a hard decision if the ban is lifted, we will certainly NEVER participate in another inter troop or pack event and are waiting for the Lord’s direction as to whether or not to leave Scouting all together.

  • JamesR


  • Paul Davis

    LOL. You sure aren’t findable under that name as a social anything. Closest match is a PhD in pharmacology.

    So, no discrimination. Therefore, you can show me in writing where the MC has disavowed the parts of the Book that deal with how horrible and naturally afflicted American Indians are? You know, sons of Ham and all that? Think I’ll be waiting for THAT link for a while.

  • Paul Davis

    You do have to wonder how much these guys get paid to cut and paste this “LETS AVOID THE ISSUE BY TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT MORMONS ARE” stuff. Bet I could poke around and find the talking points online in a few minutes. But it’s pretty well known they are paid to do this nonsense. There’s actually a company in Utah that offers this as a service. Hey, dudes, wanna give us the company name and website? I had it a couple years ago, but they keep moving around when people post it online a few times.

  • Paul Davis

    He was fourteen years old at the time, of course he was yanking peoples chains.

  • Paul Davis

    Hmm, extreme about defense but absolutely refuses to address the question asked in any way. This tends to make one think – paid troll.

  • Michelle

    I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, and I am a woman. I am over 40 years old and I have never been discriminated against just because I am a woman. I have never been taught to discriminate against the blacks, the jews, the homosexuals. I have been taught that Heavenly Father and Jesus love us all. He doesn’t love the choices we make if we disobey his commandments. And just a thought, If you are preaching not to hate someone, you need to preach not hating anyone, including the groups who do not believe as you do.

  • John

    Clearly, someone hasn’t read up on the true mormon religion. Discrimination against African Americans s and women??? Have u ever been to a Mormon church? Jew discrimination? If you look closely, the ONLY two religions that believe the Jews are the chosen people are the jews and the Mormons. Honestly, get your facts straight.

  • Steve

    I can’t begin to describe how wrong you are on this article. Just because you love gays doesn’t mean you have to hate on every group that believes acting on it is wrong.

  • JamesR

    From the NYT, estimated figure for gay / homosexual priests in the American church 25 – 50% http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/31/nyregion/31gay.html Sure it could be less, or more probably more, but there is no way to tell as they are not saying. Therefore it can’t be said to be “10%” as it can’t be said to be any figure for sure, but 10% is absurdly low. Have you ever been to a Catholic Church??

    A “90%” figure smacks of Dark Ages Catholic Church and or discredited Paul Cameron ‘data.’ It’s complete crap. For some facts about pedophilia start here: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html It cites many studies the NYT has referenced over their coverage of facts

    So if there are more homosexuals in the priesthood would that man more, percentagewise, would be pedophiles? Who can say? It is just likely that the percentage would be, again, like the rest of the population making the remaining ‘normal’ population of ‘celibate,’ ‘heterosexual’ priests actually made up of a much higher than normal level of pederasts. Instructive video with easy to follow math here: “Protect the Children (and mean it)” by Rob Tisinai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV5PbrTySxY

    And Groschel is a self-serving admitted pederast. “Expert?” Really? The church has muzzled him after his most recent destructive commentary. Kudos for your most likely completely unintentional mega-dose of irony.

    Facts = our friends. Bullshit not so much

  • JamesR

    Sorry for your sexual abuse. As agonizing as that experience may be, that (obviously) doesn’t make you an expert on sexual behavior nor human nature, beyond your horrible introduction to some of the worst of it.

    My position is: We live in a pluralistic society, you are entitled to your opinion and your religion, but when you think you can dictate mine, or use yours a device to oppress mine, yes, your mouth is best kept shut.

    But it’s not about your mouth, it’s about your religion’s control of an organization. [This thread is.] One I can claim just as well as you. (Were you, or are you a member of the BSA?) I was. A member of a great and very active troop. You and I and everyone can claim it as it was designed to be inclusive and a way for those with differing religions and cultures to all get along and work together. For a common good. If you don’t see that as the what good has Scouting done for you? I don’t see it.

    Just because someone was raped (as what you describe happened to you is) doesn’t mean they can tell adults to stop having sex. That makes no sense.

    Scout leaders should be mature, and non-pederasts, for sure. But to tell them to stop having sex because they volunteer some days of the week around children is a bit absurd. Sex with adults, by adults, that’s consensual is entirely different from pederasty which is rape.

    Normally I would not debate something so absurd, or ellipt it as I did summbuddi ‘s post with a ‘blah blah blah’ to skip over it, but you are re-approaching the main topic of the thread, thanks.

    But I am ellipting your “choice” and “lifestyle” crapola because that’s too much to type and it’s elsewhere everywhere and WTF and I also think you don’t realize how insulting that is – so now you know – quite different from accurately quoting your religious doctrine. But I am mentioning it so you know I saw it and call you on it, without going on to explain how the sky is blue and gravity sticks us to the ground.

    Scouting is NOT about what goes on in people’s bedrooms. Not the Scouting I grew up with, not the Scouting Lord Baden Powell founded. Not international Scouting nor that in the UK, they are quite inclusive and do not have these issues! They have never made these their issues. I would love for the BSA to return to that. We can disagree in private, as is civilized. We can have safe troops, we can have members of all disparate cultures getting along by emphasizing what we have together and leaving religious battles alone. Can’t we?

  • JamesR

    True. But am I wrong? If you want your religion to stop looking foolish then have it stop meddling with my, and by extension our (and your,) civil rights. Then I will cease describing it’s practices accurately.

  • Fred E

    Bandanajack; You just had something in your mouth I wouldn’t have in my had and it mentions most of what you have posted and makes me think it has come out of your mouth.

  • Fred B

    JamesR; One should listen to the chinaman who said it is better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt,

  • Fred E

    I have lived long enough to know that ignorance is bliss. Or maybe what I have read of those who are bashing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    I am sure there are an uncountable number of men in our society who have been abused by those who choose the homosexual lifestyle. I am one of them and know a large number myself. All homosexuals may not fall into that category of being a child abuser no doubt but it is my opinion that all who are responsible for minor children should commit to celebacy regardless of whether they are homo or heterosexual.

    JamesR you are an example of many I have known who have chosen the homosexual lifestyle with themessage you have posted in response to summbuddi. What I read in your message is this is my way and it is the only way and if you don’t like it then just keep your mouth shut. Freedom of speech is a right that is reserved for those of my mindset.

    I do believe most folks who believe they have all the answers will be in shock one day when they discover they are so wrong.

    It is the responsibility of those who are in charge of training children have an obligation to see to it that they are not abuse sexually or otherwise. I have no problem with a person choosing the lifestyle of their own choice but I do reserve the right to accept it as morale or immoral based on my experiences in life.
    Why would a person demand to force their choice on myself or those who reject that choice. Why won’t those folks live their lives in the privacy of their own bedrooms. I frankly do not have any desire to know about their choices especially if I believe their actions are immoral.

  • I’ve often wondered if Joseph Smith picked those names on purpose, just to see who would get it and who would buy anything.

  • ” If a gay boy comes into the troop and makes it about scouting…he will fit.”
    If only that were the policy of your church.

  • JamesR

    Yes, so true. When you baptize the dead you are offering a chance for them to become your eternal servants rather than linger in Outer Darkness, you don’t force them. WeBad.

  • summbuddi

    “Mormon apologist”? HAHA! Hardly (though I’m happy to defend my faith). I’m your average guy that follows the news, googled “LDS and Scouts”, found this blog, read the post, and found it to be so off base in it’s description of Mormons that I actually took the time to write the post. I even had to create a web name just for this. So, here’s to my first comment on a blog board! Probably not my last, but I sure hope it doesn’t become a habit.

  • Naja pallida

    He could at least have the courtesy to credit Wikipedia for his cut and paste spam.

  • AH

    Yes..they can join the Mormon sponsored troop at no cost. Typically, all boys in the Mormon troops have their fees paid for by the church. It’s like $20 per boy per year. If a neighborhood kid wanted to join that same Mormon LDS troop, his sponsorship would also be paid for by the church. Typically, the only cost asked for from parents is the cost to attend summer camp or extra curricular excursions such as High Adventure Wilderness Camps, National Jamborees, Philmont, etc. If the troop is attending summer camp and a kid/parents don’t have the money…the church pays for it. All other expenses for monthly camp-outs and activities are paid for by the Mormon church. They are that troops sponsor. Presbytarian, Catholic, Jew , Gentile, black or white, gay or straight can join a Mormon troop. The scouting program is about making boys better men. It is not about sexual preferences. It is about learning a diverse amount of skills and develop lifelong habits of success.

    I will say that if a boy comes into the troop and tries to make scouting about being “gay” and it’s about “me being gay”… he’s probably missing what scouting is all about and won’t fit. If a gay boy comes into the troop and makes it about scouting…he will fit. True, that it is about being honest, but also chaste. It is about learning to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind , obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. The scout law, motto, slogan and oath says it all. It is about the boy and not about a politically charged issue and religious difference of opinion.

  • Phillip C. Smith

    Please get your facts straight. As a social scientist (Ph.D. from Stanford University) who was taught there to verify reported events as to accuracy, this article is lacking in this regard. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a cult, is not anti-gay, anti-Jewish, anti-African Americans, anti-women or anti any other population group.

    It is true that the Church does believe in and support God’s law of chastity, a law that applies to homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.

  • BlueIdaho

    Mormon apologist.

  • Constant Comment

    The Girl Scouts ARE more evolved, but then these same ignoramuses accuse them of promoting abortions and being in league with the Devil.

  • Bot Bot

    The 90 percent figure is corroborated by the New York Times’ extensive study of child abuse in the Catholic Church.

  • Bot Bot

    In my Mormon Scout Troop in New Jersey, one-half of our scouts were not members of the Mormon Church. Please do your homework. The Mormon Church encourages those not of their faith to join the local scout troop.

  • Bot Bot

    The BSA should not discriminate against boys, unless any boy is
    advocating sexual activity (homosexual or heterosexual) prior to
    marriage . Please note this is not practicing discrimination, only
    insisting on adherence to the Scout Law and Oath.

    With regard to
    leaders, Father Bernard Groeschel of Westchester County New York, the
    Catholic Church’s expert on abuse in the Catholic Church, says that 90
    percent of the abuse by Catholic priests was done by homosexuals who
    constituted 10 percent of the Catholic clergy. That means that
    homosexual priests abuse children 81 times as frequently as heterosexual
    priests! The BSA should retain current policy on adult leaders, unless
    they wish to have their endowments shrink as have the Catholic Church’s
    as a result of all the abuse litigation.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Suffer? Suffer from same gender attraction? I’m not suffering. I miss my late husband, but usually one half of a couple will be left behind. That’s not really suffering, because we had 28 great years together. I’m happy I met my husband. I’m happy I’m gay, because we would not have been together otherwise. Also Baptism is mostly passive. Many of us were infants and didn’t do much more than gurgle.

  • IAmForLiberty

    It never ceases to amaze me what people who suffer from same gender attraction will say or do. John, I have to ask, when was the last time you forced a dead person to do something and he/she complied?

  • JamesR

    Blah blah blah severe indoctrination blah blah shocking ignorance of current events blah blah blah. Poor You.

    Your local Troop let in a non-Mormon!? Whoa.

    Back to the topic: Gays in Scouting. Any opinions or has your church yet to make it’s position more clear?

  • Lacy

    Why would the Jews be so kind to the Mormons if the Mormons hate the Jews:

    The LDS Church is officially neutral when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Mormons, as well as many Jews, are also in favor of peaceful coexistence between Jewish and non-Jewish (Muslimand/or Christian) Arabs in the Holy Land. The LDS Church considers non-Jewish Arabs to be children of Abraham. The LDS Church does not take sides in the Arab-Palestinian conflict, and BYU’s Middle Eastern Studies and Arabic majors are known for avid pro-Palestinian activism.[citation needed]

    The LDS church has two congregations in Israel: the Galilee Branch in Tiberias and the Jerusalem Branch in Jerusalem. Latter-day Saints in Israel hold their worship services on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath.[48]

    Mormons do not proselytize in the area and are discouraged from proselytizing, as proselytizing in Israel is illegal.[49]

    Brigham Young University has a study center in Jerusalem that is active in research and cultural activities (e.g. classical music concerts). Its creation was initially protested by Haredi Jewish groups which claimed, despite Mormon reassurances, that it would be a center of proselytizeing activities. Brigham Young University was allowed to open an extension in Jerusalem only after promising the mayor that no proselytizing would take place and that all students would be foreigners.[50] The courses at the center, attracting students from BYU and other institutions of higher learning in the US who wanted to do credit coursework in Israel, were temporarily suspended due to security concerns.[51]

    The BYU building is located on Mount Scopus with a dramatic view of the old city of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. It is considered prime Jerusalem real estate, a prestigious location, and a high-profile symbol of the friendship between the LDS Church and the Jewish State.[citation needed]

  • Lacy


  • Victor

    John A:

    Sorry to post OT, but i thought you would want to see this story about what can only be called Rhode Island’s Sam Arora:


  • bandanajack

    oh boy, the mormon apologist trolls are out in force. let all who tread in here where hip boots, the sh*ts getting deep.

  • steve

    Ezra Taft Benson (Mormon Prophet and former U.S. Secretary of Agriculture) declared in “A Message to Judah from Joseph” (1976) that he cherished his friendship with the Jews of Israel:

    “Among some of my most cherished experiences and recollections are the fond association I have enjoyed in past years with the Jewish people in the United States and the land of Israel. I have visited Israel three times. I have met hundreds of government officials, farmers, business and trade people, and leaders in professions. No visits have been more impressive than the visits with David Ben-Gurion, Levi Eshkol, and Moshe Dayan.”

    Benson called on Mormons to understand, learn from, and befriend the Jewish people:

    “But our affinity toward modern Judah is not prompted merely out of mutual suffering; it is prompted out of a knowledge of our peculiar relationships together—relationships which claim a common heritage. Jeremiah has prophesied that in the latter times “the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together.” (Jer. 3:18.) My prayer is that because of evenings spent together like this one, this prophecy will come to be fulfilled. We need to know more about the Jews, and the Jews ought to know more about the Mormons. When we understand one another, then perhaps you will understand why Ben-Gurion said, “There are no people in the world who understand the Jews like the Mormons.”

    The Christian Apostle then slams the Crusades’ violence: “Some of the most evil of those deeds were perpetrated upon the remaining Jews in Palestine in the name of Christianity during the Crusades. Will Durrant has correctly written of this sad chapter of human suffering, ‘No other people has ever known so long an exile, or so hard a fate.'”[55]

    Benson laments the suffering and “ruins of what was the largest Jewish ghetto in Europe in the Jewish section of Warsaw, Poland”:

    “Here 250,000 descendants of Judah had lived prior to the war. Under the Nazi rule, through forced labor, Jews were required to build a wall around the ghetto. Later some 150,000 Jews from other parts of Europe were brought into that area. The Germans first tried to starve them out, but when that did not work, they transported over 310,000 Jews to the extermination camps. When Himmler found that there were still some 60,000 Jews alive in the ghetto, he ordered their “resettlement.” When they forcibly resisted, the German S. S. General Stroop ordered the tanks, artillery, flamethrowers, and dynamite squads on the ghetto. The extermination which was to have taken three days lasted four weeks. The final report by the general read, “Total number of Jews dealt with: 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved.” This report left 36,000 Jews unaccounted for which were no doubt claimed by the gas chambers. (William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Greenwich, Conn.: Fawcett Publishers, 1965, p. 1272.)

    “I have visited some of the concentration camps, the mass graves, and the crematoriums where, it is estimated, six million of the sons and daughters of Judah lost their lives, reducing their world population from seventeen to eleven million.

    “I have been impressed to tears as I visited some of these wanderers, those persecuted and driven sons of our Heavenly Father, my brethren of Judah. Yes, the prophecies regarding the dispersion and suffering of Judah have been fulfilled. But the gathering and reestablishment of the Jews was also clearly predicted.:[56]

  • bandanajack

    steve is making up his own history and facts, or using someone else’s made up facts..

  • steve

    Judaism is foundational to the history and doctrine of Mormonism. The Latter Day Saint movement teaches that its adherents are either direct descendants of the House of Israel or adopted into it. As such, Mormonism regards Jews as a covenant people of God, held in high esteem and respected in the Mormon faith system. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints refers to itself asphilo-Semitic in its doctrine.

    Studies have shown that Jews generally view Mormons more positively than any other religious group,[1][2] despite often voting on opposite ends of the political spectrum. Explanations for Jews’ high regard for Mormons is speculated to come both from their solidarity with other historically abused religious minorities and the philo-semitism of Mormon theology.[3]

  • Steve

    The Church never denied membership based on race (although slaves had to have their master’s permission to be baptized), and several black men were ordained to the priesthood during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. The first known black Latter-day Saint was “Black Pete”, who joined the Church in Kirtland, Ohio, and there is some evidence that he held the LDS priesthood.[3] Other African Americans, including Elijah Abel in 1832, Joseph T. Ball in 1835 or 1836 (who also presided over the Boston Branch from 1844–1845), and Walker Lewis in 1843 (and probably his son, Enoch Lovejoy Lewis), were ordained to the priesthood during Smith’s lifetime.[4] William McCary was ordained in Nauvoo in 1846 by Apostle Orson Hyde.[3] Two of the descendants of Elijah Abel were also ordained Elders, and two other black men, Samuel Chambers and Edward Leggroan, were ordained Deacons.[4]

  • Steve

    In the summer of 1833, W. W. Phelps published an article in the church’s newspaper, seeming to invite free black people into the state to become Mormons, and reflecting “in connection with the wonderful events of this age, much is doing towards abolishing slavery, and colonizing the blacks, in Africa.”[1] Outrage followed Phelps’ comments, (Roberts [1930] 1965, p. 378.) and he was forced to reverse his position, which he claimed was “misunderstood”, but this reversal did not end the controversy, and the Mormons were violently expelled from Jackson County, Missouri five months later in December 1833.[2]

  • Steve

    From the beginning, black people have been members of Mormon congregations, though there were varying degrees and forms of discrimination against blacks. When the Mormons migrated toMissouri they encountered the pro-slavery sentiments of their neighbors. Joseph Smith, Jr. upheld the laws regarding slaves and slaveholders, but remained abolitionist in his actions and doctrines. After the Mormons were expelled from Missouri, Smith took an increasingly strong anti-slavery position, and a few black men were ordained to the LDS priesthood.

  • Steve

    Thus Utah was the first place where a women voted, and her right to vote was protected and allowed by law. However the United States Congress disenfranchised Utah women, and took away their voting rights, with the Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1887. It was not until Utah was granted statehood in 1896 that women were again allowed to vote.

  • summbuddi

    The paragraph describing Mormons as Gay haters, having disdain for Jews, bigoted against blacks, suppressors of women is so far off base that I laughed when I read it. As a practicing Mormon for 33 years I know exactly what is taught and how it is taught. If I do the math, I’ve attended over 5,000 hours of church meetings in my lifetime and that doesn’t include serving a two year mission in Brazil or additional time doing service. I have never once been taught to hate a gay person, supress a woman’s rights, show bigotry toward any race or ethnicity. I think you need to check your “facts”. Just because you or anyone thinks otherwise doesn’t make you right. Disagreement over moral grounds must never be confused as hatred. If that were so, it would be just as easy for me to accuse you of hatred towards a minority (Mormons) because you disagree with our position. Using the Mormons as a scapegoat for Prop 8 is silly as well. The population of California voted and last I checked, Mormons were a major minority there. There were plenty of religions and organizations that were standing up for moral traditions before that vote, the Mormons are just the easiest target because it’s socially acceptable to ridicule them. It’s important to remember that often times when we ridicule one minority to make a point, which was done in your piece, we are simply the pot calling the kettle black. I’m sure that’s something we could all do a better job of avoiding.

    Bose, if a young man lives in Mormon neighborhood and wants to join the troop sponsored by the local LDS ward then he is welcome. When I was a scout we had a young man in our troop that wasn’t Mormon

  • azprofessor

    There is an interesting parallel between the Scouts and Mormons. During the early years of Scouting blacks were not allowed to be members at all. So it was with the Mormons through 150 years of history,the LDS church practiced overt and covert discrimination against blacks. Mormons now embrace blacks as does Scouts. Both need to get over themselves with this as well. Just as heterosexuality is about so much more than sex, so it is with homosexuality…it is about who we love. Is love immoral, Scouts???

  • The founder’s grandson was gay!

  • Holy Ghost batman! Spills coffee on keyboard.

  • Not to be confused with ‘Boney Maroni” the song.

  • nicho

    I’m rubber and you’re glue . . .

  • Bose

    OK, so if a Presbyterian kid in a largely Mormon neighborhood in Salt Lake City wants to be a scout, can he join the same unit as his neighborhood buddies, or does he have to find a unit not sponsored by the Mormon church?

  • Alexandria Hoptkins

    You’re all a bunch of ignoramuses

  • Naja pallida

    Mormon was the prophet who supposedly engraved the Book of Mormon onto the mythical golden plates. His son was Moroni, who inherited the plates and buried them in New York for some odd reason. After Moroni’s death he was reincarnated as an angel, and directed Joseph Smith to the plates so he could translate them by putting a hat over his face. So does one follow the father or the son? Maybe they’re one in the same! Where have I heard that story before…

  • Duck

    ” Each individual BSA Troop has a separate charter (thru a school, a church, etc.) Even though they “answer” to corporate BSA they set their own policies” which is why of course the troop in the National Capitol region was forced to drop sexual orientation from its non-discrimination policy 2 DAYS AGO. Cause BSA troops get to set their own policies currently. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-cub-scout-pack-says-it-was-pressured-to-remove-anti-discrimination-statement-from-website/2013/01/29/cb4abb70-6a92-11e2-9a0b-db931670f35d_story.html

  • Loona_c

    You have it wrong. Each individual BSA Troop has a separate charter (thru a school, a church, etc.) Even though they “answer” to corporate BSA they set their own policies. The Mormon groups use BSA as their church “youth group” and therefore don’t encourage any non-Mormon’s to participate. So yes, the BSA is passing the buck. They will be able to say THEY don’t discriminate, but will let their charter troops do as they please. That being said, I do know a Troop about 20 years ago that was founded by a bunch of gay Dad’s. Regardless of the BSA policy.

  • “Maybe America should just go to “Scouting,” and drop all this gender crap.)” YES!

  • S1AMER

    Mormons is as Mormons does — that is, they’ll continue banning gay boys and leaders from all the Scout groups they control.

    But, unlike Catholics (LDS and RC together sponsor well over half of all BS groups), Mormons will do it with a smile, and a PR campaign, and who knows what.

    (Girl Scouts, of course, are far more evolved than BS. Maybe America should just go to “Scouting,” and drop all this gender crap.)

  • pappyvet

    Yes,the Mormons will have no problem knifing the scouts. HOW they will go about it is the only question.

  • Probably tie them in knots and pray to KOLOB for guidance.

  • I think this cult misspelled the name they give themselves. It was Angel MORONi, not Mormoni. Followers of Moroni are Morons.

  • judybrowni

    Good luck with that.

    Mormons are nutballs.

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