Romney adviser: “The culture wars are kind of over and Republicans largely lost”

A Romney campaign Iowa adviser today declared the culture wars over – the right-wing lost.

Speaking on a local Iowa political show, Romney 2012 Iowa adviser Dave Kochel told host Dave Price that,
“frankly, the culture wars are kind of over and Republicans largely lost.”  (Video below.)

Kochel uses the explanation a number of commentators are now relying on, the “demographic shift.” Namely, younger voters are pro-gay, pro-choice (and pro-environment), and don’t care about the culture war issues. I’d argue that it goes even further than that: Young people care quite a lot about gay rights and women’s right and the environment, and they agree with Democrats on the issues.

Kochel went on to explain that he talks to his kids, one of whom is in college, and gay marriage and abortion and birth control are “settled issues for younger voters.”

gay

From Westboro Baptist Church, Fred Phelps klan (with permission)

Interestingly, President Obama said something similar about his kids when he came out in favor of gay marriage in mid 2012:

“It’s interesting, some of this is also generational,” the president continued. “You know when I go to college campuses, sometimes I talk to college Republicans who think that I have terrible policies on the economy, on foreign policy, but are very clear that when it comes to same sex equality or, you know, sexual orientation that they believe in equality. They are much more comfortable with it. You know, Malia and Sasha, they have friends whose parents are same-sex couples. There have been times where Michelle and I have been sitting around the dinner table and we’re talking about their friends and their parents and Malia and Sasha, it wouldn’t dawn on them that somehow their friends’ parents would be treated differently. It doesn’t make sense to them and frankly, that’s the kind of thing that prompts a change in perspective.”

A little more on the importance of youth and that “demographic shift.”  From a post we did in 2011 about Virginians’ attitudes on gay marriage, note the support for gay marriage among those aged 18 to 29:

The survey shows that nearly three-quarters of those ages 18 to 29 say gays should be able to legally wed. Only 22 percent of those ages 65 and older agree. Between the ages of 30 and 65, residents are split, with 44 percent saying same-sex marriage should be legal and 43 percent saying it should illegal.

That’s a huge shift in opinion, and the numbers show that for young people, the debate is over.

Former Romney adviser Kochel continued: “If we’re the party of freedom and liberty, then we should be for personal freedom and individual liberty — and that extends to marriage.”

gay

From Westboro Baptist Church, Fred Phelps klan (with permission)

Kochel goes on to note something quite interesting – that a number of his Republican friends in Iowa want these issue to just to go away all together:

“You also hear a lot of conversation off the record, people talking about how they’d like to move on past some of these old fights we’ve been having and can’t talk about it.”

Keep in mind, these aren’t just Republicans – they’re Iowa Republicans.  This isn’t liberal Massachusetts.  It’s the heart of the Midwest.  And Kochel isn’t just talking about gay rights, he specifically mentioned abortion and birth control as well.

The article also notes that former Republican party chair Ken Mehlman is coming out to Iowa to appear at a Republican event in favor of gay marriage.

The battles aren’t over. But the war is. And we won.


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • Mary Kroner

    I remember too. I’m not saying I forgive him, nor that any sane and intelligent person should.

  • cambridgemac

    Civilization was not dying in the Eastern Empire. In 900 and 1000 Byzantines still read Plato in the Greek original and they ate with forks and knives. And they ruled parts of Italy for hundreds of years after the “fall” of the West. Pretending that “Western” civilization was ending because France and Britain became barbarain kingdoms is ethnocentric.

  • cambridgemac

    “The Crusades were a defensive reaction to Muslim aggression.”
    Either you are hallucinating or you know that you are lying. The Byzantine Empire had legal status as protector of Christians in the Near East and Egypt and centuries of trade and commerce – including pilgrimages – inside the Caliphates. There was no “Muslim aggression.” Any more than Sadam was aggressing against the US. Lies then, lies now. One wonders why Christians are – for over a thousand years – so addicted to war and lying.

  • cambridgemac

    The Cathars believed in and practiced literacy and equality between men and women. And pacificsm. That was their sin. Plus, they were prosperous. (Perhaps due to the literacy.) The number of victims killed in the games numbered what – 100,000 over the 4 centuries that the games lasted? The Xians slaughtered 50,000 women, men and children in ONE DAY in Jerusalem and no one remembers because IT WAS SO NORMAL for Xians. Well, the Muslims remember. At the time, Syria and Palesitne were still over 50% Christian. But after a few more visits from European Christians, the Muslims, who had never put a lot of energy into proselytizing, got smart and by 1300 the area was over 90% Muslim. I’m gonna hazard a wild guess that many of the people who converted to Islam were appalled by Christian “morality.”

  • cambridgemac

    The people who govern us loathe democracy. The real war is that of the 1% against the rest – and they’re doing quite well in that war. When the flying death robots start taking out Americans here at home, gay equality will be small consolation. You can be sure the 1% won’t be targeted, though.

  • caphillprof

    We all know that social conservatives cannot gloat

    Subject: [americablog] Re: Romney adviser: “ The culture wars are kind of over and Republicans largely lost”

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    A damp, dark bog might do it.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Sorry Dave, but really, that fan was dropped ages ago. :)

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    When was the last time you experienced the ‘Church’ expounding on the Bible? Most of its Vatican pronouncements are ex-cathedra. Read the history on Teilhard de Chardin if you think the case for Galileo was some 11th dimensional chess by the Vatican.

  • Vmmercan

    Or any blog.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “decidedly second-rate.” —couldn’t agree more. It will take a few generations to figure out that the dazzling Bill Clinton and the brilliant snake oil salesman Obama are indeed second rate and met the most trying times of their presidencies with a compromising meritocracy and lack of any greatness.

  • Naja pallida

    And compared to today’s Texas Republicans, Barry Goldwater was a flaming liberal. Though, you don’t have to go that far back to find strong Democratic leanings in Texas.

  • Naja pallida

    You’re right, gerrymandering is done by both sides, and I never claimed otherwise… but I don’t recall the last time the Democrats were been caught blatantly trying to break up Hispanic-majority districts. Districts should be drawn by a non-partisan commission of professional elections officials, and done by population, not by who voted for whom. The winner of an election shouldn’t get to decide how the next election operates. The elections should operate in a manner which puts both sides on an equal playing field.

    The main reason the Republicans kept the House is that the Democrats simply had more seats up… but even when you consider that, the Democrats still netted more total votes. Plus, the shenanigans now with assigning electoral college votes by district, which has them pretty much convinced that as long as they can manage to keep gerrymandering districts to limit Democratic voting blocks power, that they will always have the upper hand to keep the House and thus the Presidency. Which again, is ridiculous, it could just as easily backfire on them – but the whole electoral college system is antiquated garbage, and needs to just go away. Not be gamed.

  • rduke

    I’m glad they are realizing that hatred and bigotry always loses, but I will never forget the party that has made our lives hell for decades and did everything they could to prevent equality for gay people.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOILKHmZBwc Ritorna Vincitor

    As long as we’re speaking of history and the Church, don’t forget that the bishop of Alexandria destroyed the great library of Alexandra in the year 391. The librarian was dragged out by a Christian mob and flayed to death with clam shells. Among the thousands of priceless documents destroyed were said to be “so many great works of brilliant geniuses”, including a history of the world.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Well, sort-of. You seem unaware of the Andalusian Renaissance that ascended to heights of culture and civilization unknown to the rest of Europe. Yes, the Church did preserve much of the ancient learning, but suppressed the knowledge as heretical. Further, it is the Islamic culture of North Africa that preserved the vast bulk of it.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    The last thing a humanist would want to do is cause suffering or to destroy the ‘faith’ of another by logic,

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I got my pan flute tuned and my hooves polished for The Rite of Spring!

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “you slander Christianity, and Catholicism specifically,” And?

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    tsk, tsk, losing our eloquent temper are we? You sophistry reminds me of the phrase: “The banality of Evil.,” particularly these words of yours: “and under Christianity slavery was greatly softened compared to how it was in other contexts.” Does the word slavery and civil rights ring an American bell for you? Beneath that smooth rationalization of yours lies an accommodation to authoritarianism that reeks of evil and cynicism.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Well spoken and kind.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1173480024 Rob Michael

    I’m a liberal in many regards who was an atheist and found God. I enjoy my life much more now and I am much happier. I find an early morning service gives me the vigor for a full day of yardwork.

    But I don’t think I am superior in intellect to you because of my religious beliefs.

  • JozefAL

    Of course, those Democrats simply switched to the Republican Party after Nixon’s “Southern Strategy” expanded on the Barry Goldwater extreme right-wing conservatism.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1173480024 Rob Michael

    Have you ever opened a history book? The Church was essential in preserving much of the knowledge that would have otherwise loss after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Without the Church and the Islamic Empire, most of what we know today from those times would be gone forever. It is popular to bash the Church for the whole Galileo affair but first Galileo actually was very close to high ranking members of the Church and was funded by them for most of his life. The heliocentric thing was much more a game of politics than doctrine.

    Western civilization was dying and the Church saved it. The Dark Ages were not so dark. The Church had its faults but so did everyone with a little bit of power and authority.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1173480024 Rob Michael

    You know the Church was pretty big on science and the preservation of knowledge for centuries and the whole Galileo thing is a bit more complex and political than the Church hating anything not explicitly in the Bible.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1173480024 Rob Michael

    To honestly believe that Democrats are above rigging and gerrymandering is ludicrous. It’s hard to listen to someone after they curse Republicans for gerrymandering ( which isn’t the main reason the kept the House). I am no huge fan of the Republicans but to think they are the only party of dirty tricks just illustrates the ignorance.

  • Carney3

    The pagan Romans massacred themselves a hell of a lot of Jews, ignoramus. The Crusades were a defensive reaction to Muslim aggression. The feudal system was not modern liberal demogracy, but calling it “enslavement” is hyperbole and an abuse of language; even the lowest peasant had rights. Christianity was and is far more respectful of women than its pagan predecessors which is why women were among the earliest and most enthusiastic adopters of Christianity. The pagan Roman “paterfamilias” has the absolute right of life and death over his entire household including his wife. No previous culture, even the most tolerant of homosexuality, has ever treated homesexuality as normal or as the equal of heterosexuality, and the overwhelming majority have reviled it. Finally, you slander Christianity, and Catholicism specifically, by implying that pedophilia is or was ever accepted; every act of such abuse that has ever happened was a gross violation of Christian morality and priestly vows. The reason there was an epidemic of it was the weakening of the broader culture, and safeguards at the seminary level, in the 1960s, when “if it feels good do it” and psychobabble undermined traditional morality.

  • Carney3

    Your elaborate outrage carefully ignores the reality that you are criticizing Christianity via Christian and/or Christian derived morality. You also ignore the fact that the points I made were responding to an assertion that Christianity was worse than its pagan predecessor.

    Typically, your aggression is matched only by your confidence and your ignorance.

    Catharism was a poisonously destructive and corrosive cult. It rejected the material world and this life as inherently evil. It even rejected marriage, intercourse, and new life as wicked. In that regard, the medieval Inquisition was PRO-SEX. Re-read that, you braying ignoramus, tracing with your finger and moving your lips as necessary. Catharism was an apocalyptic death cult, preaching that after a single (invented) sacrament, you were guaranteed Heaven and continued existence in this world was basically pointless. No earthly laws or authority of any kind was valid, so total anarchy and chaos was spreading like wildfire.

    Burning at the stake was a terrible way to die, but it’s simply not to be compared with the gladitorial arena. The former was intended as a terrible punishment to deter heresy, the gravest possible action in the context of the highest possible stakes (eternal salvation or damnation); the latter was merely a decadent form of entertainment.

    Calling the Holy Bible “evil” is essentially insane, an almost perfect inversion of reality. Slavery, in the context of the Bronze Age, was a step up from genocide, and Christianity specifically asserted the infinite worth of even the humblest of people, including slaves. Slavery was a universal human phenomenon across all cultures, most especially including pre-Christian paganism, and under Christianity slavery was greatly softened compared to how it was in other contexts.

    Again, while some Christians have behaved wrongly or in excess, the very morality you use to criticize them IS A CHRISTIAN INVENTION. Before Christianity, there was no way to even articulate how it was wrong.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    You poor thing.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    YEP. Good One.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Without irony, I say, “Dear God” what a list.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I know and support that opinion completely. My philosophical snark was aimed at .Christian theology, which, with some exceptions, I find absurdest theater. I find your information fascinating. and enjoy your contributions.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I’m all for the Rapture, because I’ve applied for precious metals salvation rights.

  • Naja pallida

    Really they’re pretty old strategies, that the mainstream pundits are just finally starting to catch on to. Remember, there was a time, not that long ago, when Texas was Democratic. :)

  • dakotahgeo

    It’s about damn time… those ‘po Iowa ‘publicans!!! Thank God they’re finally waking up to reality.

  • AnitaMann

    This. Election rigging and gerrymandering are the new strategies.

  • Constant Comment

    Not over for women or our reproductive health. States are still going full-ALEC.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    You really do not belong on this blog.

  • LogicGuru

    What a shame. The social issues are trivial. Can the 2% of Americans who are gay get married? Sheesh: most heterosexual people I know never got married–it was “just a piece of paper.” Abortion? Give the kid up for adoption or, if it’s healthy and white, sell it. The real issues are the economic issues–social safety nets and affirmative action. As a woman, wouldn’t even be considered for most jobs if it weren’t for affirmative action And I want welfare, I want to option of opting out of the labor force if all I can get is pink-collar womanshit. Abortion? who. cares If I had a baby I’d sell it. Gay marriage? who the hell cares? You can get into the closet, you can sell babies, you have a choice. But if you’re a woman you can’t get a guy job whatever you do–unless it’s enforced by the government.

  • Stev84

    Don’t forget the slaughter of 8 million plus people in the Thirty Years War which was largely fought between Protestants and Catholics over one side oppressing the other, religious freedom and the right of princes to force their religion on their subject. Or the Troubles in Ireland.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOILKHmZBwc Ritorna Vincitor

    You’re welcome! True story.

  • Mighty

    I live in a rural Texas area and while it is a decade or two behind the rest of the nation socially it still is improving. I had considered leaving this area for more gay tolerable areas but perhaps I do more by being here to change attitudes. Hmmm. Something to think about I guess.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    And then there are those of us who, upon realizing the hypocrisy, moral depravity, and lack of core-level decency in our birth-religion, used that evidence to help us decide to leave in the first place.

    You’re confusing cause and effect.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Perhaps he has a hidden stash of porn.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    Thanks hon, I needed a good laugh.

  • Mike_in_the_Tundra

    You forgot the Inquisition! That was one of their best.

  • FLL

    LOL. Your comment reminds me of the folks who are eager for the world to end in “The Rapture.” Everybody gets killed, but the fundamentalist Christians are saved, and their bodies are taken away to heaven.

  • FLL

    You’re right that the Dialogues of Plato are not without major flaws, including plenty of circular reasoning, which was further misused by medieval Christian writers. I was just saying that the Bible supports so much criminal, murderous action, which is absent from the Dialogues of Plato. That’s what I thought was disgusting.

  • colleen2

    “”Kill them all. God will know his own.”

    It’s funny how the right wing Christian God so closely so resembles it’s trailer trash followers.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Had you used ‘vitality’ instead of ‘validity’ I would agree.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Well done FLL, well done! I find this part interesting: “to plug your evil Bible in preference to the Dialogues of Plato? It is so ironic that Augustine and Aquinas used circular Platonic reasoning to prove the existence of the non-existant—God. Christianity has based its foundation on the mind play of rationalists, cynics and sophists. Better they should have stood with the Gnostics.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “distinctly morally inferior to the Christianity” Morally inferior to millions murdered by Christianity over the ages: Thousand of women burned as witches, massacre of Jews, the Crusades,enslavement of millions under feudal seignority , deaths of millions by HIV/AIDS because of anti-contraception laws, millions of orphans created, misogynist defamation of women, the theology of hate directed at GLTBQ communities, and last but not least thousands of children damaged by pedophile abuse

    —-some morally superior, you got there holier-than-thou.

  • colleen2

    So, they’re making bigotry optional? Not nearly good enough.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Just kidding Mary, just kidding.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I don’t agree. Or rather, I only halfway agree.

    Yes, we’re moving in the right direction on marriage equality rights for gay and lesbian families, and states are passing laws to secure and expand on those rights. It’s moving in the right direction. However, we LGBT Americans have to continue to face an opposition that conducts its war through hate-speech and lies.

    The war for LGBT civil rights isn’t even close to over.

    As far as abortion rights go, when is the last time any state legislature or the federal government passed ANY law to protect or expand upon reproductive freedom? I’m not talking about PPACA’s contraception mandate — which is already circumvented by allowing religious exemptions. I’m talking about states that go the other way, removing increasingly onerous restrictions that are, even now, taking away a right women took for granted for decades. Transvaginal ultrasound. Mandatory waiting periods. No late-term abortions. Increasingly cutting back on the time where it’s legal to get one at the beginning of a pregnancy. One federal and state law after another banning any gov’t help in getting an abortion, even when medically necessary. Still a ban on abortion access in the military. States now regulating abortion clinics out of existence, and as if that isn’t enough, doing their damnedest to put organizations like Planned Parenthood out of business.

    Far from winning that particular ‘culture war’, what is happening is the fundamentalist right-wing forces are going full-bore, passing law after law — contrary to the wishes of the majority of Americans.

    We will not have won that war at all until the SCOTUS upholds Roe v. Wade and overturns all the laws nibbling (and gobbling) at the edges of what it said was a fundamental reproductive freedom for women.

    The very notion of democracy — what the American people actually want — has become increasingly irrelevant to those who govern us.

  • FLL

    The Christian Church specialized in aggressive war and genocide. Have you ever heard of the Albigensian Crusade of the 13th century, in which the Papacy targeted the majority-Cathar population of southern France for mass murder in an effort to eliminate Catharism? This was mass murder on an unprecedented scale. And why? Because the population of southern France wouldn’t kiss your ass, Carney3.

    You have the flipping nerve to plug your evil Bible in preference to the Dialogues of Plato? That. Is. Disgusting. You can read your evil Bible at this link. I’m sure you’re very proud of all the atrocities your holy book glorifies. As Dan Savage rightly observed, if the Bible got a moral question as easy as slavery wrong, what are the chances that it got something as complex as human sexuality wrong? About 100%? Tell you what, Sparky. Since you’re so interested in interfering with other people’s sex lives, I’d like you to perform a very specific sexual act. I’d like you to go f— yourself. Thank you, in advance.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOILKHmZBwc Ritorna Vincitor

    My husband too gave up religion. He had for eight years been a Catholic priest. He doesn’t miss it, though, except for some of the funnier stories, such as when he was still in seminary, and a reader at dinner during Grand Silence misread a word from the life of Saint Brigit. Apparently the story involved some miracle in which she took a hot coal out of a brazier without getting burned. But what the reader said was, “And she did reach forth and pluck a hot coal from her blazing brassiere.” Needless to say “grand silence” erupted into soup spitting, laughter and the sound of choking.

  • Carney3

    And I’m sure you were saying social conservatives have a “right to gloat” after the 2004 elections when the Ohio gay marriage referendum played an important role in putting Bush over the top.

  • Carney3

    Any given religious or ideological viewpoint has ex-adherents who fondly imagine that their no longer believing it is devastating proof of its lack of validity.

  • Nicholas

    Younger people also accept science and reject many Republican positions as anti-science. They want nothing to do with the anti-evolution, climate change-denying crowd.

  • Carney3

    While the pagan Greco-Roman civilization had many admirable attributes, it was distinctly morally inferior to the Christianity that replaced it.

    It not only practiced infant exposure, deadly combat as mass entertainment, human sacrifice, crucifixion, aggressive war, and genocide, it, crucially, did so fully consistently within its own moral code and without any way to criticize such actions.

    Its religious system was distinctly morally unsatisfactory. The gods were mere humans writ large with no greater wisdom or virtue than humans, and their arbitrary whims showing no concern for justice and no special concern for human welfare. The just and the wicked alike spent eternity as flitting shades in Pluto’s underworld.

    Nor was it at all intellectually impressive. Every rock and tree, every city and household, was imbued with divine status, much like the animism of the most primitive cultures. No attempt was made to resolve contradictions between competing claims of jurisdiction between various gods, including foreign imported cults. The Roman Senate somehow had the authority to bestow divine status on deceased, and sometimes even living, emperors, and then to strip them of such status.

    It’s easy to see how Christianity appealed to the intellects, consciences, and aspirations of the peoples of the Roman Empire. It has a single god rather than the mess of pagan gods and politically chosen divine emperors. Its god is not only powerful but wise, just, and loving. It posits the infinite worth of each individual human being, regardless of social status, since God Himself suffered and died for that person’s salvation. It asserts an afterlife experience directly relevant to the virtue of the decedent’s behavior in life.

    Whether you are a Christian or not, it’s obvious to any honest observer that Christianity was a significant civilizational advancement over paganism. Every criticism made of Christian civilization today is done within the context of Christian or Christian-derived morality.

  • Badgerite

    Let’s put it this way. Your battles are not over but you are not fighting them alone anymore. Significant chunks of the electorate are with you and will be with you in the future.

  • FLL

    Like!

  • Naja pallida

    Gloat or goat? I’m up for either.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I would have taken the side of the Emperor Julian!

  • pappyvet

    Carney,

    I fully believe that you are attempting to be sincere. I will lower my guard and go there.I will not call you names.

    Neither the 20′s nor the 50′s were all that great if you happened to be a person of color or a woman. Women were not “given” the right to vote,they had to fight for it.
    Rosa Parks was not “given” a seat on the bus. It wasnt until 1993 that N. Carolina became the last state to remove the spousal exemption for rape.Many psychologists explained that battered wives were masochists who provoked their husbands into beating them. A husband raping his wife was not a crime at all, but a sign that the woman was deficient in fulfilling her marital obligations.. In the 1920′s women could rarely land a job. And they made at best,60% of what a man did for the same work. The standard work week was 55 hours, no overtime. “A good days wage for a good days work,”did not fall from the sky. So there is plenty of “disgustingly perverse” and”asinine nonsense” ‘in that “healthy norm” you speak of. And I have only lightly mentioned how we treated the minority population of our country.

    Were the movements that fought back radical? Depends on who you are.

    In the May 1955 issue of Housekeeping Monthly, titled ‘The Good Wife’s Guide’
    we find the following,” You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first – remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.” And, ” After all, catering for his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.”

    Yes,these were great times …for some. But the mask of conservative virtue was just that, a mask. What was underneath is the true perversion.

  • Ray Hill

    It was announced this morning that Senate Republicans would go along with amnesty for undocumented immigrants and now you are telling us that bigotry is no longer a part of party identity. Without those things there will be only the rich left and the whole party will be a bunch of whores.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    I know it’s hard work and nobody wants it, but I’d be happy to lead the in-your-face gloat parade. :)

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Aren’t you just the holier than thou wet blanket.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    “he is trying to make up” Max Factor or Loreal?

  • FLL

    The Romney adviser in this post is just acknowledging the obvious. All the more reason for Obama’s DOJ to weigh in on the Prop 8 case. To remain silent would make Obama look like The Clueless One who is following the rest of his country rather than leading it, which is so second-rate.

    An interesting exchange of opinions downthread. Carney3 is spitting in the wind with his shrieking about the “disgustingly perverse” acceptance of diversity that he sees all around him. Naja pallida suggests that people like this are “sore losers.” So to understand what a sore loser sounds like, I read Carney3′s tortured argument about the early 19th century (which was even more violently homophobic than the late nineteenth century), which he somehow thinks offers a glimmer of hope for a coming era of bigotry and sexual repression, in spite of all current and historical evidence to the contrary. I’ll have to rework Naja pallida’s description. People like Carney3 aren’t sore losers. They’re just losers.

  • http://oldgaylawyer.blogspot.com/ Eamon O’Connor

    the actual proposal is for the national leaders of the BSA to delete national’s position on gay kids in the BSA and leave the discrimination up to local organizations and sponsors such as the LDS church. The national organization has not had a change of heart. It is merely feeling the financial pinch caused by the boycott of the national organization. So don’t read too much into the news reports.

  • http://oldgaylawyer.blogspot.com/ Eamon O’Connor

    The GOPer operative’s comments are interesting and even welcomed. The culture war is over at long last. After reading this article I wondered how ‘over’ over really is. After reading it I remembered the stories about isolated Japanese warriors who were discovered years after the end of ww2 still ready to fight to the death for the Emperor. From there I sort of moved on to our own Civil War that ‘ended’ formally in 1865 and yet we still find holdouts of people still fighting that war. We saw it when Truman integrated the military, when Earl Warren and his brethren unanimously outlawed forced segregation of public schools. We see it in the resistance to civil rights laws, voting rights laws. Now we see it in the resistance to marriage equality, opposition to reproductive choice and even renewed 1950s era birth control legislation by people screaming at the top of their lungs to get government off their backs. I suspect we suffer a political form of multiple personality disorder. If we have indeed won the war will we be mustering Maggie Gallagher et al out of the ‘armies’ used to fight that war, will she have to go out and get a real job now or will we be paying her a pension?

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    Yep we have a post coming up on that, very cool.

  • FLL

    The Christian takeover of Western civilization at the end of the fourth century was a catastrophe. The Dark Ages that followed were a nightmare that Western countries have slowly freed themselves from—in spite of the Christian churches, not because of them. So you think that the gay and bisexual portions of the human population are “disgustingly perverse”? It’s fools like you who would bring back religious persecution of the American population who are disgustingly perverse.

    Listen carefully, Carney3. Western civilization did just fine before the Christians took over at the end of the fourth century, and we’ll all do just fine long after bigoted religious fools like you have vanished from the earth. There are very few of you left, even today. And I’m sure we’ll all muddle through somehow without your support. Honest.

  • Dave of the Jungle

    I certainly never did anything to imply that KEN MEHLMAN IS GAY.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randyariddle Randy Riddle

    ABC news is reporting today that the Boy Scouts may soon lift their ban against gays joining the organization or serving as Scout Masters. If you’ve lost the Boy Scouts, then the Culture Wars are not only over, but dead as a doornail.

  • Roy T.

    There is no way on earth Mehlman can “make up for” the damage he did. He wasn’t just a low-level apparatchik who took his marching orders and has now seen the light. He was one of the top two or three architects, along with Rove, of the hugely successful 2004 demonization of gays which brought the knuckle-draggers out to the polls and ensured a Bush win as well as enshrining anti-equality provisions in numerous state constitutions. I, for one, will never forgive the SOB, no matter how much money he sucks from his rich friends, no matter how many “events” he stages on his apology tour, and no matter what he says. He can burn in hell.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOILKHmZBwc Ritorna Vincitor

    That’s funny. I started off life as a conservative Catholic. And then I woke up. Now I’m a liberal atheist. And life is SO much better.

  • Mary Kroner

    Maybe he is trying to make up for all the damage he did previously. I’d like to think that he is.

  • Stev84

    Nothing but desperate opportunism

    As for the age gap, Iowa Democratic majority leader Michael Gronstal has said the same:

  • http://www.facebook.com/monoceros.forth Monoceros Forth

    Oh, I’m sure you believe what you say. But so do other trolls. The “angering others” is what really gets them off. What gets you off, eh?

  • Carney3

    Trolls say provocative things they don’t believe in just to enjoy angering others and diverting the discussion.

    I’m sincere and my post was on-topic. Just because you didn’t like my post doesn’t make it trolling.

    You also carefully ignored my facts in favor of unsupported name calling.

    Leftists like to shoehorn and stuff EVERY issue into the mold of the old civil rights struggle. But going to that well over and over just shows the bankruptcy of your positions – it’s like some conservatives who call everything they don’t like Communist.

  • caphillprof

    Dream on, you lost, we have a right to gloat.

  • Naja pallida

    People continuously claim to be more conservative, but when polled on the direct issues, they’re remarkably liberal. This is an empirical fact… but I don’t see anyone gloating about a permanent left victory, maybe gloating about the current round of victories, but very unlike Karl Rove who was claiming that his path and ideas were literally a permanent conservative majority. And he was among the worst of the people who got spanked this go around, his entire ideology has been resoundingly rejected by a majority of the voters. Which is why conservative state legislatures are now trying to do an end around the system. They’re currently operating on a mindset that if they can’t win because their ideas are generally unpopular, then they will just change the rules of the game to skew in their favor.

  • http://twitter.com/notfakeandrew Andrew

    In a sense, this is a war we’ve already won. But each battle is going to be tough. Even the bigots see the writing on the wall, but they’ll go down kicking and screaming, making it as miserable for us as possible along the way.

  • Skeptical Cicada

    Oh, look, a troll, lecturing and defaming gays in a pathetic attempt to avoid admitting that his bigotry is dying out. The movement in the gay-rights polling data over the last half-century does not support the mindless faith in the view that young people turn into bigots when they get old.

  • Carney3

    History doesn’t just move in one direction. Cultures have cycles of decay and renewal, of corruption and healing.
    In the early 19th century, the UK and US had huge problems with alcoholism. Elites in the UK flaunted mistresses, and illegitimacy was rampant in all classes. But in large part due to a religious revival, social reformers, and wise public policies, as well as the positive example from the sovereign, the culture healed to a great degree. Alcoholism receded, all three classes cleaned up their act when it came to sexual morality. The pendulum swung too far by the late 19th century when piano legs were covered up so they wouldn’t remind anyone of women’s legs.
    But the point is, the left’s gloating and triumphalism about inevitable or permanent victory is foolish. The old economic leftists thought socialism was inevitable too. Much of the regulation of the New Deal and Great Society has been rolled back, and the Soviet Union has collapsed. American culture was much more conservative in the 50s than in the 20s, much more conservative in the 80s than in the 60s and 70s.
    As Margaret Thatcher once said, “the facts of life are conservative”. The permanent things – family, church, local community, common sense values of restraint, virtue, etc. create success. Decadence, self-indulgence, refusing to recognize distinctions between the disgustingly perverse and the healthy norm, are the path of failure and chaos. Look at Hollywood and the miserable family lives of its celebrities and their families to see how the empty the glittering promises of liberalism are. In the long run, the truth will win out.
    Young people are liberal because young people are foolish, inexperienced, with no common sense, and these days are not being taught their heritage and history, or solid values, from institutions that are supposed to inculate such things but are in the grip of aging 1960s radicals. No wonder their heads are full of asinine nonsense. But social science proves that with each life milestone – getting a real job, getting married, having children, getting a mortgage, putting the kids in school, confronting pop culture – people become dramatically more conservative. All of a sudden posturing as hip and tolerant isn’t as important anymore…

  • Naja pallida

    They may have lost every major “culture war” for the last generation, or longer, but that doesn’t stop them from being sore losers, and working hard to change the rules of the game behind our backs to keep fighting. Or, in some cases, simply resorting to violence to get what they want.

  • Randy

    It’s pretty safe to say that gay marriage is a dead issue in Iowa, where they actually have gay marriage and it has survived every onslaught. It’s kinda like the church saying today that they now agree that the earth revolves around the sun. Sorry, but you don’t get a pat on the back for recognizing reality, especially when you fought it so long and hard. If children can understand these concepts, then you should have done so a long time ago. And your fighting it has caused real pain in our community and diverted resources that could have gone to something better.

    And these battles are still out there and still strong. I understand that we aren’t giving up, and this is all good news, actually, but we shouldn’t kid ourselves. When these people fight because of morality, they don’t give up easily and frankly they never will.

  • woodrich

    The long tiime hypocrite Ken Mehlman? Yeah, that’s the one.

  • DonS

    Do not let the culture warriors off the ground. Grind their face in the dirt. Stomp on their disgusting words until they choke on them. Don’t kid yourself, these noxious ideas are nowhere near dead, only looking for the oxygen to survive. And there are, what, 25-35% of the voting population who will never accept the supposed change . Interestingly, to my gut, while these are non-issues to the younger generation, that generation is also not very invested in politics — figuring, for one, the government is a remote and basically useless artifact — so they are not the soldiers standing at the gate as it were. They may have different ideas, but they are basically passive observers. What they have in numbers they give back in commitment.

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