Arming teachers doesn’t work

Conservatives’ decision to double down on their guns-save-lives rhetoric is not only callous and disrespectful in the wake of a national tragedy, it also cuts against evidence showing that putting more guns in schools (including arming teachers), and issuing more concealed-carry permits, will do more harm than good.

In a 2010 study, students voluntarily signed up for a gun safety course, and were provided with basic training and a faux-handgun (shooting plastic bullets filled with paint) that they would then keep on their person during class. At random times, an armed intruder would enter and open fire. The participants were charged with defending themselves; none were successful – not even the self-described gun enthusiast.

ABC News’ report on the study:

Armed teacher via <a href="">Shutterstock</a>Even with more training than is typically required to obtain a concealed-carry permit (for added irony, the concealed-carry permit class I link to does not allow loaded firearms in its classroom), most of the participants in the study were unable to even get their gun out of their holster, let alone bring down the intruder.

Arming teachers, or students, simply doesn’t work in practice.

One key takeaway from the study was that in order for concealed-carriers to be effective in defending themselves and others they need to go through rigorous, police-style training every two weeks at a minimum. Anything short of that renders the weapon holder less than useless in a gunfight.

Jon Green graduated from Kenyon College with a B.A. in Political Science and high honors in Political Cognition. He worked as a field organizer for Congressman Tom Perriello in 2010 and a Regional Field Director for President Obama's re-election campaign in 2012. Jon writes on a number of topics, but pays especially close attention to elections, religion and political cognition. Follow him on Twitter at @_Jon_Green, and on Google+. .

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85 Responses to “Arming teachers doesn’t work”

  1. JaredP says:

    Speaking as someone who has not just done a 3 day class, but full military SRF training with weeks of day long sim-round practice, that’s still bull. When the guns come out and nobody has a sign around their neck saying terrorist, it’s entirely too easy to shoot each other. That’s even with military style setup and doing it as a drill knowing what’s going on. A pack of civilians with vastly different levels of experience and competence? *shudder*

    Even as someone who strongly defends gun rights, giving out that kind of nonsense information will just get people killed.

  2. Vince says:

    Not all teachers should be armed, but if the teacher wants to, is properly trained, and the laws are followed, what would it hurt?

  3. ReaIAmerican says:

    Time to get obsessive! Post boy,post!

  4. ReaIAmerican says:

    Hahahahah! Cut n paste! No thoughts of your own!!!!!

  5. EG says:

    Why is it that Americans are made to feel so guilty about their 2nd Amendment rights, when a lot of victims of mass murders are in European States with very restrictive gun laws?

    Recent mass murders in Europe, all of them occurred in gun-free zones and in some Countries where guns in the hands of civilians are outlawed:

    * Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.
    * Tours, France, Oct. 29, 2001: Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.
    * Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man killed eight city-council members after a council meeting.
    * Erfurt, Germany, April 26, 2002: A former student killed 18 at a secondary school.
    * Freising, Germany, Feb. 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded.
    * Turin, Italy, Oct. 15, 2002: Seven people killed on a hillside overlooking the city.
    * Madrid, Spain, Oct. 1, 2006: A man killed two employees and wounded another at a company that had fired him.
    * Emsdetten, Germany, Nov. 20, 2006: A former student murdered eleven people at a high school.
    * Tuusula, Finland, Nov. 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal killed at a high school.
    * Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: Ten people shot to death at a college.
    * Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: A 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers.
    * Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: Ten people injured when a man opened fire on a nursery school.
    * Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: Three people killed and two injured by a student at a vocational college.
    * Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: Three people killed and one injured at a crowded café.
    * Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: One dead and 15 wounded in an attack on a Sikh temple.
    * Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: Four people shot to death at a mall.
    * Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: Twelve killed by a British taxi driver.
    * Oslo, Norway, July 22, 2011: 77 people killed by Anders Behring Breivik.

  6. EG says:

    Here is a national petition for who is interested on having Senator Feinstein impeached for violating her oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States:


    This is a petition to have Mrs.Feinstein tried for treason:


    Please sign today, and write your elected representatives!

    Please note Mrs.Feinstein isn’t trying to repeal the 2nd Amendment with the due process set forth in the constitution, but by proposing a LAW that will circumvent and nullify a right granted to the people in the constitution.

    The very same constitution she sworn to support and defend.

  7. EG says:

    FBI murder report for 2011 by States and type of weapon – Table 20

    Alaska – 29 total murders – Total firearms 16 – Handguns 5 – Rifles 0
    District of Columbia – 108 total murders – Total firearms 77 – Handguns 37 – Rifles 0
    California – 1,790 total murders – Total firearms 1220 – Handguns 866 – Rifles 45
    Texas – 1,089 total murders – Total firearms 699 – Handguns 497 – Rifles 37

    D.C. and California have some of the strictest gun control laws.
    Alaska and Texas have some of the most liberal gun control laws.

    D.C. – Population 632,000 – Total firearms murders 77 – Gun death rate 12.18
    Alaska – Population 731,000 – Total firearms murders 16 – Gun death rate 2.18
    California – Population 38 Million – Total firearms murders 1220 – Gun death rate 3.21
    Texas – Population 26 Million – Total firearms murders 699 – Gun death rate 2.68

    Seems to me that States awash in firearms have a much lower rate of murders by firearm than those with the strictest gun control.

    Notwithstanding strict gun control and ban on so called “assault weapons”, Mrs.Feinstein State of California leads the U.S. gun murder number.

  8. If you are determined to shoot a bunch of children in a classroom and you know the teacher has access to a gun aren’t you going to shoot the teacher first?

  9. dula says:

    The relatively few people who need to hunt for food don’t need assault weapons to do it. If you want to hit a target get a bb gun or a dart board. I’m not afraid of the British anymore, so I don’t feel the need for a musket. I don’t spend my time fearing criminals so I don’t sit at home with a gun at my side waiting for them…not that having a gun is effective defense anyway, as we saw from the video. If the US isn’t full of cowards, why did we allow the passage of the Patriot Act and all the other dismantling of our Constitution? Why were 70% of Americans so easily convinced of the lie that Saddam Hussein attacked us on 911?
    He who gives up liberty for security deserves neither-Ben Franklin

  10. Papa Bear says:

    In spite of what the great unwashed NRA followers may think (and I use the word “think” in its loosest possible sense), “Arming Teachers” is not a serious proposal. It’s just thrown out there so that the next, slightly less looney idea they propose will seem reasonable by comparison…

  11. Papa Bear says:

    We could put a safety catch on each weapon that required you to pass an IQ test every time you wanted to use it?

  12. Ninong says:

    Australia got rid of assault weapons following the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996 and there haven’t been any mass killings in Australia since.

  13. samizdat says:

    You are living in a world which simply doesn’t exist outside of the movie theater or the TV screen.

  14. Drew2u says:

    Thanks! I knew someone would step forward and help me with this; that’s what I like about americablog. If you don’t have the data/facts, there’s usually someone with the facts willing to back you up!

  15. lynchie says:

    Well I would like a shot at defending myself from you.

  16. lynchie says:

    Here are the facts: Here is a quote from the article cited below:

    Last April, the Violence Policy Center issued a report, titled Blood Money: How the Gun Industry Bank Rolls the NRA, which details these intimate ties between the gun industry and the NRA. From Blood Money:

    Since2005, corporations–gun related and other–have contributed between
    $19.8 million and $52.6 million to the NRA as detailed in its Ring of
    Freedom corporate giving program. In a promotional brochure for the
    program, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre promises that the
    “National Rifle Association’s newly expanded Corporate Partners Program
    is an opportunity for corporations to partner with the NRA….This
    program is geared toward your company’s corporate interests.”

    By the way the troll has not shown one fact, perhaps he is too busy being in bed with his gun and bottle of lotion.

  17. lynchie says:

    Agree, every Zimmerman who has had a fantasy boner about being a cop will be walking the school halls and looking for something suspicious

  18. lynchie says:

    I agree no one needs hand guns for any reason and tight limits and registration of every other gun./

  19. lynchie says:

    I choose a drone or a jeep mounted machine gun please with armor piercing bullets and a bag of IED’s.

  20. lynchie says:

    Well my thought was this would be a good way of getting rid of the older, experienced teachers who would have an issue with carrying firearms. We have all seen videos of high school kids fighting teachers and there was no outcry to do something to protect them so bring in younger, lower paid teachers who have less issues with carrying a gun and picking off a few kids along with the armed intruder. I know, I know I am nuts but 4 million odd NRA members are going to decide what the 326 million will have for gun control or malls, shopping centers and of course our schools.

  21. cinorjer says:

    Crazy shooters don’t show up at schools because they’re gun free zones, Rambo. They show up because that’s where the targets are gathered together. Some of our worse mass killings were at places where there were known to be armed guards and defenders and it didn’t make a bit of difference. The one case where the gun rights obsessed people point to a civilian stopping a shooter at a school, the guy was already back in his car, it was after the killing was over and the guy gave up peacefully instead of just driving away.

  22. Ninong says:

    Jason, are you seriously suggesting that lunatics who commit mass killings would be put off by the thought that they might die during the act? They really don’t care! Many of them take their own lives before they can be arrested.

    You don’t really think that having several members of the audience armed in Aurora, Colorado would have made a difference to Holmes? He was nuts! And in addition to the vest, he was wearing a ballistic helmet, a throat guard, a groin guard and bullet deflecting leggings. Oh, and a gas mask, too! Just for dramatic effect, I guess, although he did throw a couple of gas canisters.
    I can just imagine how many people would be shot by the armed audience members firing away in the dark at each other. Holmes is nuts! Not legally insane, just crazy! He shot 71 people, 12 of them died. What was someone like that doing with any guns at all? He’s a complete loon. Just look at his bright orange hair. Too bad none of his professors reported him to the police before he went off.

  23. Ninong says:

    Here’s an interesting fact, Jason. In April 1996, Martin Bryant, killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It’s known as the Port Arthur Massacre and it was Australia’s worst mass killing. Australia passed a strict assault weapons ban and there haven’t been any mass killings since.
    We have mass killings all the time in the US. Columbine, Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook Elementary are just a few of the most notorious but they happen over and over again, several times a year. The UK has a few dozen killings a year. We have more than 11,000 a year.

  24. Ninong says:

    Jason, I don’t know where you’re getting your information but all of my information came from the report published by the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office.

    Do you think a single trained law enforcement officer could have prevented Adam Lanza from entering Sandy Hook Elementary School if Lanza knew he was on duty and ambushed him? I doubt it. Lanza could have waited until he had a clear shot.

    It’s not easy to stop a maniac with a Bushmaster AR15. One who would slaughter 6- and 7-yr-old children while they were huddled together in the closet. And deliberately shoot them in their faces! Some of them were shot 11 times!

    I don’t think the Second Amendment was meant to cover AR15’s. Since Antonin Scalia claims to be an “originalist,” maybe we should ask him?

  25. Ninong says:

    Jason, I didn’t imply anything other than exactly what I wrote. “There was an experienced, armed sheriff’s deputy working at Columbine High School on the day of the massacre. He exchanged gunfire with Eric Harris in the school parking lot.”

    Are you implying that Neil Gardner wasn’t working at Columbine HS that day? Are you saying he didn’t exchange gunfire with Harris in the school parking lot? Because that’s what I wrote and it’s all 100% correct.

    If you are implying that just because Gardner was eating lunch in his patrol car with the school’s unarmed security officer, while they were monitoring students at the “Smokers’ Pit” just off campus, then that would be correct but it doesn’t mean he wasn’t working at Columbine and wasn’t on duty at the time of the massacre. He received a call from the school’s custodian telling him he was needed immediately in the back parking lot. That was at 11:23 am. As soon as he got out of his car, Harris spotted him and fired 10 shots from his rifle before it jammed. Gardner fired four shots at Harris. All shots from both shooters missed, although some of Harris’ rounds struck cars behind Gardner.

    By 11:30 am there were 6 armed sheriff’s deputies on scene at the school. Harris and Klebold continued to murder students until 12:08 pm, when they took their own lives. By that time there were dozens of armed law enforcement officers on scene. Before long there were several hundred cops on scene, but by that time Harris and Klebold were already dead.

  26. AdmNaismith says:

    Well Mr, Troll, we’ve seen what guns loose in the world do- they kill people. It is what guns are made for, it is what guns do, it is what ultimately happens.

    Trained police and soldiers, even with the best of intentions, kill the innocent and bystanding. Untrained volunteers with less training and less ability are absolutely destined to kill the innocent and bystanding.

    For LaPierre to suggest that the best thing for schools to do is ask for armed volunteers from the untrained and unwashed public is absolutely asking for there to be more dead children in the world.
    LaPierre clearly wants nothing less that to see children dead.

  27. Naja pallida says:

    Where are the cops when we need them? Having their pay cut, being laid off, and getting their unions busted.

    And yes, Rambo. Go watch First Blood again. He wasn’t armed, didn’t want to fight… until he kept getting pushed around and threatened by a dick-head with a gun, and so he armed himself and took matters into his own hands. You can argue about his reasoning, but that’s the gist of it, and that is essentially what you are suggesting. Since we can’t count on law enforcement, we can’t do anything at all to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people or criminals, so the only option is for individual citizens to arm themselves and be their own vigilante justice any time the situation calls for it.

  28. Naja pallida says:

    Manufacturers of over-the-counter medications, and most pharmacies, accepted laws to put their products in packaging with child-resistant caps, and cases of accidental poisoning of children plummeted.

    Car manufacturers finally accepted laws which mandated the addition of seat belts, air bags, and passenger safety-cage and crumple-zone construction, some places have laws that children must always be in the back seat, babies must be in car seats – things that save countless lives in motor vehicle accidents every year.

    While not federal (at least in the US), many states and most local jurisdictions have laws and building regulations that require putting an enclosed fence up around a pool, to prevent accidental drownings.

    What are gun manufacturers doing to make their weapons safer? What law could we pass, that they wouldn’t fight tooth and nail and claim that the libruls are trying to destroy the country with, to make their products safer for everyone?

  29. lynchie says:

    I am 66 years old. Travelled to almost every country in the world. Been in some scary situations. Never shot, never stabbed. The attitude of this country is based on guns and aggression. Ban the guns is a good place to start. You may feel it is impossible but unless you sets your sights high just getting rid of big mags won’t solve anything. If you are a gun person, I respect your right to own a shotgun or rifle but you don’t need anything beyond that to either kill a deer or defend you home. Have you ever been attacked or know anyone who was or had their home invaded. Paranoia

  30. evan_la says:

    Not wrong. You’re an idiot so I’ll just withdraw and ignore you.

  31. It just blows my mind that anyone seriously believes it’s a good idea to arm teachers. I’m remembering my matronly third-grade teacher, who wouldn’t have harmed a fly. I can’t imagine her packing heat, and ready to blow away some crazed shooter at a moment’s notice. What a crazed world this is becoming.

  32. The Deputy wasn’t on-site as you imply.

  33. Drew2u says:

    No, I agree I lack facts, and I would like to find the information I need to make a factually accurate statement. At the same time, saying the NRA does not benefit from the sale of weapons, especially with the gun manufacturers being a part of the NRA, is – at best – asinine and deceitful.

  34. Where does the NRA make money from gun sales? And please show me where criminals pay the NRA?

    Please show facts, you lack them.

  35. I think your logical process is totally disconnected from reality. Please, tell me how you logicaly arrived to that conclusion. Please, go see a psychiatrist, it would do you some good.

  36. We shouldn’t HAVE to ask them to protect our kids, I agree with you there, but we shouldn’t have ever had gun free zones in the first place. Every other population and venue are “protected,” but where are the cops when you need them??? So people have figured out it’s better to be able to defend yourself until the cops arrive.

    Rambo?? LOL, really??

  37. Talk about fantasy! Are you serious???

  38. Good luck with that, and if you somehow do it by fooling the entire country with deception, good luck defending yourself from criminals, unless somehow you’re immune to criminal attacks.

  39. NO! Wrong. The Second Amendment was written for contemporary weapons. It’s timeless, otherwise they would have written as such.

    Otherwise, I would ban you from being able to use the internet for your wrong opinions and say you have to use ink, scroll paper, ink presses, and carrier pigeons, among other things for that period of time. Use your head.

  40. Yes the study was terrible, it was incredibly biased, and I saw glaring issues with the way it was written and then subsequently aired on TV as a position to say that [something, whatever] doesn’t work. A script can show anything you want it to. If you wanted to believe it, the latest SFX movie “BattleShip” could be real to you if you want.

    Gray – you don’t mean the cops spraying kids with pepper spray in this uncited, unauthored article on GoogleResults, do you?:
    Where was the NRA represented in attaching the “crazy” NRA to the liability of this situation?

  41. Well trained cops react accordingly, poor examples of cops serve to do the opposite.

  42. No so many people have guns because they either hunt, target shoot, enjoy exercising second amendment rights, compete, or simply understand the importance of defendign yourself and your family against criminals. From what I gather, you have no effective interest in any of the above. Is that true?

  43. Fantasy huh? Teachers who are willing and interested in self defense and defending their students is fantasy? Do you hear what you’re saying?

  44. It’s a good thing he didn’t pull the trigger and exercised good judgement, otherwise he would have gone down for murder. Everyone who carries and uses a weapon has to think about this, for responsibility. But as soon as the shot is available clean, to not have the ability to take the shot because the gun grabbers have taken your gun away from you, you’re just another helpless, waiting victim, unless you can escape, and then can you imagine how difficult it would be to deal with the fact you could have saves people’s lives but didn’t because you just ran away? Or would it not even bother you?

  45. It’s called target driscrimation, which is unlike civil rights discrimination, because target discrimination means you shoot threats, not other good people.

  46. It’s really quite easy to a trained individual who would be carrying a gun. Don’t even point your weapon at something you’re not willing to destroy. So, assuming you think that people would just shoot each other because they all have guns, you should really get educated, take a class and learn what gun owners (or conservatives if you want to errantly group all gun owners into the conservative category) are trained like, I teach, I’d be happy to help. I train people for 3 full days before I graduate them, and you should see the quality of students I turn out, even people that previously were on the fence or not even willing to be around a gun, and wanted to get rid of all of them.

    Always be sure of your target and what’s beyond, you never shoot at a target unless you know it’s a target/threat. Again, get educated.

  47. There was one deputy, just one, and Columbine was THE reason that law enforcement officers (LEOs) learned some significant things about active shooter scenarios. It has become the official starting point to teach LEOs how to react. Until this point in time, LE was not prepared to deal with such a threat, this was all new. Harris outgunned Deputy Gardiner, Gardiner had nothing better than his handgun available to him to react to Harris. A guy with a handgun is almost always going to lose against a guy with a long gun, it doesn’t matter experience level. A long gun just extends range and accuracy, it’s about barrel length, not about capacity of magazines nor other features, because it all comes down to training.

    a 1st grade teacher, , trained, proficient and effective with the ability to use a weapon to defend his/her kids is drastically better, giving everyone the odds of surviving someone shooting up defensless, unarmed people, which it sounds like you would prefer. You’d be enabling cowards, do you like helping criminals? Silver platters and unarmed people are not what I want associated with my kids being in any school. Nor do I want people out there in society trying to help criminals, with what you’re advocating.

    Aurora Theater: What tired old argument, you’re completely uninformed. Let me turn the question to you, if you walked into an area that someone, or many people might be able to shoot you before you’re able to shoot anyone, or many people, would YOU attack that area or those people, or would you pick somewhere there’s little to no chance of any resistance. Criminals prefer unarmed, weak, defenseless people. By their nature, they’re cowards. And the Aurora jerkoff didn’t have body armor, at all. A military style vest is NOT body armor.

    Start looking up facts before posting on the internet and voicing an opinion, because you know the saying, opinions are like a—-les, everybody has them, and they’re not worth much except to pass –it.

  48. No. That’s defenseless kids that die hard, and you’re more than willing to support protecting everyone else, and everywhere else but our kids?

  49. Why would a manufacturer be responsible for the actions of a criminal?

    How about another list of questions for you:
    1. Would you sue the maker of aspirin for someone committing suicide with it?
    2. Would you sue the manufacturer of vehicles for someone driving DUI and killing an entire family on their way to a family members home for Christmas?
    3. Would you sue the manufacturer of a swimming pool for a kid drowning in it?

    Do you see how ridiculous it is to make your comment? Are you a professor (I’m looking at your username)?

    How about blaming the actions of the criminal instead of demonizing those absolutely not responsible for the actions of a CRIMINAL. Do you have this much bias in the classes you teach? My professors in college did…and I learned many truths the hard way.

  50. theoracle says:

    The NRA’s real plan for schools:

    First period: Target Shooting
    Second period: Defending against mass murderers, shoot first and ask questions later.
    Third period: Duck and Cover behind kevlar back packs and lunch pails.
    Fourth period: Triage
    Fifth period: Taking care of your assault weapon, stripping it down, oiling
    it, reassembling it, students will be timed and graded accordingly.
    Sixth period: choosing someone to be the point child as your class is leaving school.

  51. Naja pallida says:

    I wouldn’t send my child to a school where the teachers were armed, anyway, unless it was specifically a military college or academy where such things are intended to be trained. I went to public school, and public universities, I can’t think of a single teacher or professor I had that I would have felt safer knowing they were packing in the classroom. Besides, a teacher’s job is to teach, not to shoot perps, or pretend to be Rambo. We’re already treating them like glorified babysitters for crap pay, and then telling them that having a union is bankrupting states, and now we expect them to be armed bodyguards for every student in the school? Bullshit.

  52. And you see the truth and refuse to believe. Did you actually watch the video and see the explanation about how your body reacts in a fight/flight situation like this.

  53. Sweetie says:

    They work, just not in the way naive people think they do. They are designed to do something entirely different than what they’re advertised to do.

  54. mucholderguy says:

    You should realize that all conservatives have an acute sense of right and wrong that enables them to tell at a glance whether someone is a good guy or a bad guy, even in dim light.

  55. mucholderguy says:

    Everybody run! Principal Peters has a gun!

  56. Drew2u says:

    Stupid idea here, but: Is it true that the U.S. is paying/bribing certain foreign countries to NOT buy arms/weapons? If so, then couldn’t the U.S. military/defense buy out the private gun manufacturers that create 30+ magazine and semi-automatic rifles and simply destroy the weapons?

  57. Drew2u says:

    His only responsibility is to the gun manufacturers to make sure guns are sold so the makers make money. That’s all it is, doesn’t matter how. As long as guns are sold, it doesn’t matter to him for what purpose.

  58. evan_la says:

    Banning guns completely is not the point. The point is reducing their availability, especially for the mentally unstable. The Second Amendment does not preclude limiting the distribution of guns – in particular high-capacity clips and semi-automatic assault weapons. As you may recall, when the Second Amendment was passed, folks were using muskets – loading one ball took about a full minute.

  59. Sarah Ap says:

    Arming everyone isnt the answer!!! Getting rid of the weapons is!!!
    Someone needs to force the gun companies to open their eyes- how many more people will have to die??? They make a portion of their money off of crime

  60. AdmNaismith says:

    On the Sunday shows, that wanker Wayne LaPierre said all schools should have armed guards, and if they could not hire them then take volunteers,

    Wayne LaPierre is the worst person in the world. He just said he wants to see your child shot dead at school because that is the ONLY outcome of that terrible little scenario.

  61. lynchie says:

    I am a non supporter of guns of any kind read his post and mine. you are dense

  62. Litterbox says:

    ….and they would respond with gun in hand.

  63. Litterbox says:

    Thinking anyone can ban guns completely is the epitome of fantasy. So, what would YOU do if you were in a classroom, mall or some other place where an active shooter was present? Would you run away? Call 911? What?

  64. Litterbox says:

    Banning guns completely is a fools errand. It will never happen. Even if you stopped manufacturing of guns today, there are millions out there and its not possible to confiscate them all. Beyond that, until the 2nd Amendment goes away, your fantasy response is completely moot. Now, please answer the original question if you can.

  65. Litterbox says:

    Banning guns is a complete fantasy. Someone walking in and shooting up a school is a reality. What would YOU do in that situation? Its a pretty simple question.

  66. lynchie says:

    Read my note. He can’t shoot anyone if we ban guns.

  67. colleen2 says:

    why should we indulge the emotionally immature in their purile fantasy lives. We got enough of that when you were trying to convince us that the child murderer, George Zimmerman is a martyred hero. What people like you and Wayne La Pierre call a ‘good guy’.

  68. caphillprof says:

    The heart of the problem is the Congressional law that exempts gun manufacturers from liability lawsuits.

  69. Jan Marra says:

    Oh, play along. Put yourself in that position. Tell us how you’d pull and fire and the bad guy’d be like totally dead, end of story. (whuff)

  70. dula says:

    Fear prevents people from acting effectively in dramatic, chaotic situations. Americans are incredibly fearful even in ordinary circumstances, which is why there are so many guns to begin with.

  71. Tim Kane says:

    Conservatives always have these theories … (supply side economics, austerity, everyone’s a gun toter…)

    That never works in reality,


  72. lynchie says:

    He can’t if we ban guns

  73. RyansTake says:

    Shorter version of what you had to say: “I love me some guns and those people said things I disagree with, so CONSPIRACY!”

  74. RyansTake says:

    To be honest, I doubt most cops would be able to react in this situation correctly. Only the highest, regular-trained SWAT type cops would be, and of course our skilled folks in the military who terrifyingly do this for real, all too often, in some cases.

  75. Gray Coyote says:

    Watched the whole thing.

    You really expect a comparison when the people involved have these very thick gloves that have grasping problems unless they are holding a weapon with a lot of surface area like a rifle and masks limiting field of view (because protective gear is required because we’re talking about “less than lethal” rounds) and where the “shooter” knows ahead of time who’s armed and therefor where he just starts almost immediately directing all fire towards the “student with the gun” before the “shooter” could even see the gun pulled out from under the shirt?

    The video is an example complete put up job designed for one thing: Affirming the smug belief systems of people who are against the idea. The people who set up the thing (ABC News) were against it. The “Shooters” were against it, and they conspired with each other to set it up where near absolute failure is certain and they found a few unlucky saps who played along & didn’t realize they were being played for fools.

    I don’t like the NRA for numerous reasons (they are right wing nutjob crazies who are generally pricks). Even me, a guy who thinks the NRA’s “plan” is generally crazy (cops, the guys who tend to pepper spray kids while they’re sitting down), can see this for what it plainly is.

  76. Litterbox says:

    Meanwhile, what would YOU do if you were say, in a classroom and someone walked in armed to the teeth and started shooting people?

  77. ComradeRutherford says:

    You are completely missing the point! It doesn’t matter what reality is, it’s the extremist-right fantasy that’s important!

  78. ComradeRutherford says:

    And how are the ‘good guys’ supposed to know which of all the people shooting at each other are the ‘bad guys’?

  79. Ninong says:

    There was an experienced, armed sheriff’s deputy working at Columbine High School on the day of the massacre. He exchanged gunfire with Eric Harris in the school parking lot.

    Within 4 minutes after Deputy Neil Gardner exchanged gunfire with Harris in the parking lot, another six armed deputies were on the scene. Harris and Dylan Klebold continued to shoot students for more than 20 minutes more! They killed 12 students and 1 teacher and wounded another 23 before finally taking their own lives! Before they were finished there were dozens of armed law enforcement officers surrounding the school and within another couple of hours there were several hundred of them.

    What makes Waynker LaPierre think that your child’s 1st grade teacher would do any better? Remember when he said following the Aurora theater shooting that if only some of the audience members had been armed they could have prevented that tragedy? Yeah, right, in a darkened theater with a movie blasting away on the screen they could have all opened fired at the same time — in the dark — to try to take out a lunatic who was wearing body armor from head to foot and armed to the teeth.

  80. BeccaM says:

    It’s ironic, isn’t it, how many schools make the kids go through metal detectors and will confiscate anything sharp or even ordinary OTC aspirin — and now the proposal is for there to be not just one or two but a whole bunch of firearms just begging to be stolen, right there in the classrooms.

    I’d also like to know who exactly is going to pay for these firearms and ammo, the constant training to use them, and the school district’s liability insurance premiums. As near as I can tell, most of these gun aficionados are vehemently anti-tax, too.

  81. usagi says:

    Fantasies die hard.

  82. UncleBucky says:

    “…renders the weapon holder less than useless in a gunfight.”

    My take?

    “…renders the weapon holder QUITE DANGEROUS in a gunfight.”

    Remember in Tucson, the one armed person on site not the perp COULD NOT SAFELY DRAW A BEAD on the guy, for fear that he would hit someone else. Likewise, in Aurora, people speculated what would have happened IF there were a GUNFIGHT IN THE DARK. The mind boggles.

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