Popular petition on White House Web site demands Obama let Texas secede

All Our Messes Live in Texas

A petition asking the President to let Texas secede has over 70,000 signatures at the White House Web site (no word on how many of those signatures are non-Texans that wish Texas would simply “go already”).  If Texas is willing to stand by its vote, and promise never come back, I’m okay with them leaving and I’ll sign it myself.

It would admittedly be a pity to see Austin go, but the rest of the state better hurry up and move. If I had to bet on Obama leading the country or Rick Perry, it’s a no-brainer. Sometimes people deserve to get what they ask for. Texas keeps talking about leave, so go already.

While they’re at it, take Dixie along for the ride. But again, there’s no coming back.

Looks like the Obama administration may have to respond to a petition seeking the green light for Texas to secede from the United States—one of 20 such requests filed on the official White House website since Election Day.

At the time of the writing of this post, the Texas secession petition had garnered 25,318 signatures—above the White House’s self-imposed rules for requiring a reply.

It has 71,025 signatures now.

As our beloved Andy Cobb notes in a video he did about Texas secession a while back, Texas isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Rarely is the question asked: Is our Texas learning?

Even more about the Texas Miracle from the Star Telegram:

Texas has routinely topped the national growth charts, but the Lone Star State’s biggest cities are behind the curve in an annual ranking of literacy rates.

Austin (tied with New York City at No. 22) was the only Texas city to crack the top third of the 75 cities ranked in the study of literacy resources by John Miller, president of Central Connecticut State University….

Plano (46) and Dallas (51) edged Fort Worth (54), which has seen its ranking decline from No. 45 since the study began in 2005.

Arlington has likewise dropped, from 57 in 2005 to 64 in 2011, and Houston from 53 to 60.

In the bottom 10 were San Antonio (66), El Paso (73) and Corpus Christi (74), just ahead of last-place Bakersfield, Calif.

David Badash has even more about the Texas miracle:

At this point the miracle seems to be that Texas has survived this long.

ABC Denver reports that petitions for dozens of other states to leave the Union have also popped up on the White House Web site:

The petitions are for dozens of states including Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, California, Ohio, Delaware and many more.

The Last Time Texas Left Was to Defend the White Race

We’ve always said here on AMERICAblog that Republicans hate our country and our way of life.  And yet again they’re showing their true stripes. Speaking of which, here’s what Texas had to say the last time it seceded:

“In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery…the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color–a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law.”We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

“That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both[ and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.“


An American in Paris, France. BA in History & Political Science from Ohio State. Provided consulting services to US software startups, launching new business overseas that have both IPO’d and sold to well-known global software companies. Currently launching a new cloud-based startup. Full bio here.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/pablo.lawson.9 Pablo Lawson

    Ya right, like Obama is just going to totally ignore the almost one and a half trillion dollars owed by Texas. Seriously if I were the prez, I would say heck ya, we don’t need any more free loaders in our union. This figure is obviously why Rick is against the idea of a seacession as he knows all this money would have to be paid in advance, and at least brought up. How emberrasing. Just because backwards people don’t appreciate a black president, nor the fact that he’s democratic. Slavery hasn’t ended yet, we work for crap wages, and we have a system in place that allows and promotes that abuse to poor people. I think everything should be unionized. Just because business owners want to take their slaves and treat them as they fell correct. News flash, anytime you work and only get room and board out of the pay, your a slave. There needs to be some stiff changes and Obama is on the right track.

  • latingallant

    Im from Dallas Tx. Born and raised. If that happens, im out of here. And good luck fighting off the invasion of multi billion dollars cartel organizations taking over and making texas a legitimate Narco country without the back of the U.S military. if that happens, which i doubt it will, but if it does. Texas will be crying back to the U.S once the first car bomb explodes in Down town Austin.

  • ramon

    Texas is damaged goods. I say sell it. They don’t want to be here anyway. I’m sure the Chinese would go for a deal for, say, 100 trillion dollars. That way China becomes a debtor to us and the of the family of the union that is the United States finally gets rid of their crazy uncle with the big hat.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Weathers/100001024703038 Thomas Weathers

    Except that same law gives Texas a loophole, The annexaction papers of 1845 which says Texas could be split into 5 territories, those territories would then be able to vote for statehood or to remain independent. One could argue that the civil war took care of that except for this ruling by the supreme court, “It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union” If Texas never ceased to be a state then it didnt need to be readmitted there-for the papers of 1845 would still be law.

  • Jeffrey White

    He’s hedging.

  • Jeffrey White

    I’m not claiming that this will succeed. I’m making a statement that unless something changes fairly quickly, things are going to get very ugly in this country.

    Civil war? Probably not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the population become more frustrated with the government.

    The federal government was set up to work with the states so that they could get along even with large differences. Like a father mediating between grown children. Not the authoritarian system we have where the states are forced into submission.

  • Jeffrey White

    So more legislation is the key.

    Additional cost to businesses due to Obamacare
    Additional cost due to raising minimum wage for unskilled labor.

    The effect would be an increase in prices to cover the additional expenses leading to the new “higher” minimum wage not being enough
    or
    Companies use fewer employees and provide less services to keep their costs down leading to higher unemployment rates.

    Look at the states with higher minimum wage rates than federal. They are mostly the areas with higher costs of living (Some such as Montana are an exception). Whether this is a cause or effect I don’t know, but what one can live comfortably on in some areas isn’t enough to make it in others. A rise in federally mandated minimum wage rates would not be equitable across the board. This is something better left to the individual states.

  • Jeffrey White

    deportation [ˌdiːpɔːˈteɪʃən]
    1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the act of expelling an alien from a country; expulsion

    It is what it is. No matter what the official term, it’s deportation.

    Look up speeches that Obama has made that reference “deportation of illegal immigrants”. I think Obama was elected after the change to removal proceedings was made so I’m not the only one that still uses the non politically correct term

    This from June
    “In a speech from the Rose Garden, Obama explained that the new policy would spare young people who are “Americans in their heart” the fear of DEPORTATION.”

    From 2011
    “The president disagreed with the governor so completely on illegal immigration that he even disputed her facts. The immigration crisis had not become worse, he believed; it had actually improved. The number of illegal immigrants had dropped from 12 million to 11 million in the last three years. Obama had tripled the number of intelligence analysts on the border and committed 1,200 National Guard troops to the cause. DEPORTATIONS had increased under his watch.”

    Of course you could make an argument that Obama doesn’t know anything about immigration laws.

  • Jeffrey White

    Yes, the monopoly that is the federal government has deemed itself the only employer in many areas. It’s also shown that it’s a historically inept in just about every endeavor. Just because it’s become the largest employer doesn’t mean it was designed that way.

    Businesses have to make a profit by being better than their competitors. The government has no competitors. With no competitors there’s no reason to be efficient or even to make your product attractive. You can dictate what people must purchase and what they must pay. When you don’t make a profit, just make people pay more for less services.

    Do you see anything wrong with this model?

  • Kes

    It’s not “semantics” – it’s the way the laws are written and it has actual, legal meaning.

    But seeing as how you’re obviously comfortable with doubling-down on your ignorance…please do keep referring to them as “deportation” laws. It will save everyone else time, since they’ll know they can discredit anything you say on the subject.

  • Naja pallida

    Of course that doesn’t explain Germany, or France… or Sweden, arguably the most “socialist” of them all. But don’t let reality get in the way of a good stereotype.

    Historically speaking, the government has always been one of the primary employers in this country, and one of the primary enablers of employment. To deny that is simply to deny reality.

    But then… I feel like I’m arguing with my beagle.

  • Jeffrey White

    It’s a narrow band when the spread of the highest tax rates vs GDP ranges from 25% to 90% over that same range of time. It didn’t matter how much taxes were raised or lowered the revenue vs GDP wasn’t significantly affected.

  • Jeffrey White

    Look at HolyMoly’s post above mine and you’ll then know that I’m not speaking of this country, but pointing out that the austerity programs currently occurring in Europe are due to their unsustainable degree of socialism.

    Try and follow along.

    HolyMoly, Read your own post and then mine which has nothing to do with the Great Depression

    The reducing of government spending leads to higher unemployment is promoting government as an employer which it was never designed to be and therein lies the problem with our current situation..

  • Drew in Dallas

    Texas is changing rapidly and in the coming years will be in play. As a new resident to Texas (moving here from Deep-Blue DC) I have found a state that is friendly, moderate and our neighbors have been embracing of me and my same-sex husband. A leading GOP State Senator just called for state provided health care for state employees and passage of a state ENDA bill.
    We have our crazy wingnuts but who doesn’t? Even DC is home of some of the must anti-gay pastors in the country (Hello Bishop Harry Jackson). So what if 25,000 folks in a state of 18 million sign a petition. Perhaps you all missed the fact that every urban country in Texas (Dallas, Harris, Etc) voted for Obama as did the Rio Grande Valley. A lot of us here are working to turn Texas into a swing state and this kind of smug posting doesn’t help those efforts…but hey, it’s ok to play to stereo types if it involves the Texas right?

  • Jeffrey White

    I refer to them as deportation laws. Arguing semantics flags yourself as someone with nothing else to support your argument.

  • Liveshere

    Talk about your sore losers. How well did the secession go back in the 19th century? Ah that’s right…

    A real American will stick it out, not run away like a spoiled child when he doesn’t get his own way. United we stand, divided we fall!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Sharon.D.Boyd Sharon Boyd

    This. The traitors can leave.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Sharon.D.Boyd Sharon Boyd

    You traitorous secessionist b*stards might want to consider how well that other “essential” commodity, cotton, worked out for Texas 150 years ago. Morons.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Sharon.D.Boyd Sharon Boyd

    Uh no. Traitors are not entitled to one square inch of American territory. They can leave. I would say they can go to hell, but I really don’t care where they go. Maybe Israel, they worship it so much.I doubt the Israelis would have them, though.
    They didn’t get to keep US territory in 1861; they don’t get it in 2012+

  • A reader in Colorado

    Socialism DOES work, “people”. It works in Scandanavia, and throughout Europe. You’re just stupid, and underexposed to the world.

    Also, by your writing quality and blathering nonsense, it is you who gets by on the charitable non-intervention of others. It’s not you tolerating people sitting on the couch watching Oprah. It’s other people, tolerating your mouthy stupidity by the sometimes debatable grace of the First Amendment, that Amendment which favors you enjoy. Don’t forget it.

    And learn English. People don’t listen to you as if you’re a wise, wise man, if you’re an unschooled slovenly bumpkin who is either too lazy or too stupid to talk like a normal person.

    Also, to persuade normal people, it helps not to have multiple personality disorder in addition to being mouthy, lazy, ignorant, conservative and outright stupid, with nothing but imbecilic assertions and blurry banality to light your way.

    “Stop bickering amongst yourself”.

  • A reader in Colorado

    Another petty post. A way of taking up space with outrage generating statistically insignificant dead enders. I’ve seen this on every MSNBC show today. Every one. It’s not even news, given the number of times it’s repeated, it’s just echo chamber crap.

    I haven’t heard about this one time today, I’ve heard about it TWENTY TIMES. I heard about it on Al Sharpton’s Show. I heard it on Ed Schultz’s Show. I heard about it on Rachel Maddow’s show.

    That certain Texans want to secede from the Union? That they would petition the White House if given half a chance?

    Color me surprised that certain Texans would do this.

  • Brogue

    In fact, it does not. While Perry has pandered to the crackpots on this issue before, and generally has nightmarish policies that are encouraging ruin for large numbers of Texas citizens, he has never supported any action to secede. He has distanced himself from this petition and stated his support for Texas being part of the United States (which is an insane position for him to have boxed himself into in the first place). Is this a problem he helped perpetuate? Sure, but let’s be honest about what’s actually happened.

  • colleen2

    I would say that, as a purely practical matter, it would be wise to have broad local support before declaring war on your own country.

  • Buford

    Texas retained the right to break into as many as 5 smaller states if they so decided, but Texas v. White in 1869 confirmed that no state can ‘decide’ to secede… membership in the Union is permanent.

  • Buford

    Doesn’t matter what the vote count would be – in Texas v. White (1869), the SCOTUS said there is no basis in law for a state’s ability to vote upon secession from the Union. The only way out (short of the US govt giving some sort of ‘permission..?!??!) would be via civil war.

  • Buford

    He didn’t actually ‘endorse’ the idea… he referred to it a few times, but never actually suggested that is should be done, per my reading…. unless you know more?

  • Buford

    The only way to secede is via civil war… not some dumb, pseudo-tantrum petition signed by .3% of Texas’ population.

  • Buford

    It matters not. The SCOTUS decided in 1869’s Texas v. White that Texas has no right to secede, even after a majority of Texans ratified such ordinances. CJ Chase wrote for the majority:

    “Considered therefore as transactions under the Constitution, the ordinance of secession, adopted by the convention and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and all the acts of her legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance, were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union, and of every citizen of the State, as a citizen of the United States, remained perfect and unimpaired. It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union”.

    The same logic applies to all states… their responsibility to the Union is permanent.

  • http://twitter.com/BillFromDover Bill from Dover

    Why not simply turn this around and have the other forty-nine vote to kick their Neanderthal asses out? Then watch ‘em whine!

  • freewayblogger

    Talk to me about Socialism after you’ve gotten rid of your socialist fire department, police, roads, schools, bridges, Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.

  • colleen2

    “A minority of the fringe crackpots do.”

    We know that that minority of fringe crackpots includes the current Governor. I am curious to know how many Texas lawmakers are also included.

    That said, I think that most people are simply amused because succession is

  • colleen2

    The only reason it isn’t a blue state now is because the repubs gerrymanded outrageously. The demographics will switch soon enough though and Texas will go blue.

  • colleen2

    I believe Texas is the only state whose Governor has recently endorsed the idea tho. (aside:I have nothing but admiration for Texas liberals and gratitude towards the state that gave us Ann and Cecile Richards and Molly Ivins)

  • Kes

    Anybody who knows anything about immigration laws knows not to refer to them as “deportation” laws. Nobody’s been placed into deportation proceedings since 1996. They’re now referred to as removal proceedings.
    But thanks for flagging yourself as somebody who knows precisely shit-all about the US’s immigration system.

  • HolyMoly

    The “necessity” for something to be done was the Great Recession, which was caused not by an “unsustainable degree of socialism,” but rather an unsustainable degree of unregulated capitalism (speculative bubbles in real estate and equities, risky lending practices, sub-prime loans, overinflated assets, Lehman Brothers), and an unsustainable series of wars paid for on credit coupled with a reduction in taxes.

    Austerity leads to reduced demand (cutting government spending reduces demand), which leads to higher unemployment and lower economic growth. Anyone who sees a “necessity” for that needs to have their head examined.

    The whole “socialism doesn’t work” meme follows the same convoluted “evidence” as can be found in other things, like public education. Step 1: Cut funding for public education. (2) Public education starts to fail. (3) See? Public education is no good! Vouchers! In other words, the reason socialism has become “unsustainable” is not due to the existence of socialism itself. The system has worked just fine. Capitalist greed at the very top, coupled with the austerity “solution” is the problem.

    But, the Soviet Union, right? We could learn a thing or two from their demise. We have a lot in common, such as unsustainable defense spending coupled with insufficient spending on infrastructure. That’s ultimately what led them on the path of decline. We spend more on defense than at least the next 20 nations combined, and our infrastructure is in a major state of disrepair, fast becoming comparable to Third World nations.

  • jgcarter56

    America: Love it or leave it.

  • ndtovent

    Yeah, I heard about this the other day. A lot of states have petitioned the WH. I know it’s just a small, fringe, vocal minority, but this has been talked about for a number of years now, and I just wonder if it won’t become a much larger movement. I wish some states would secede, but peacefully. I would NOT want a civil war.

    That said, I thought it was a stipulation in the treaties of yesteryear with the states who wanted to rejoin the union after the civil war that they could not secede. However, I know TX could separate into multiple states if it wanted to (4 or 5 states, if I remember right).

  • ndtovent

    Republican economic policies encourage it by their staunch opposition to raising the minimum wage to anything even close to liveable, so a lot of legal americans can’t survive on the shit wages paid by many companies nowadays. Illegal immigrants will work for much lower wages, sometimes even piecemeal work (as in paid by the bushel, etc.). If we had legislation mandating a decent living wage, more legal residents/citizens would do those jobs.

  • OtterQueen

    Exactly. Those who don’t like the outcome of the election are free to leave the country, but they can’t take one of our states with them.

  • Nylund

    Some also use fake SS numbers, and for those people, they’re having payroll and federal taxes withheld for benefits they’ll never receive and refunds they’ll never get.

  • Nylund

    15-20% is a narrow band? How the heck is 5% of GDP a “narrow” band?! Outside of the financial crisis, the deficit is usually below 5% of GDP. The difference between 15% and 20% could very easily be the difference between a deficit and a surplus.

    To use current numbers, 5% of GDP is about $750 billion dollars. The federal deficit for 2012 is $1.1 trillion. That “narrow band” is over 70% of the deficit. Get revenues up to 20% and cut $350 billion from the defense budget and no more deficit. In 2000 when we had a surplus, tax receipts were 20%. Now that they’re closer to 15%, deficits are big. That “narrow band” is essentially the difference between a surplus and a deficit.

  • Jeffrey White

    We actively encourage employers to hire illegals?

    Who is this “We” you speak of?

  • Jeffrey White

    Guess what… This is day one.

  • Jeffrey White

    Nice attempt at deflection. Why should we coddle to people who do not obey the laws that were clearly explained to them when applying for the visa?

    There is no magical way that won’t offend some, but the solution certainly isn’t ignoring the problem. When I break a traffic law, I have to show my drivers license. There’s many ways that could be used without violating anyone’s civil rights.

    Here’s another astonishing idea… Actually enforce the current deportation laws.

  • Nylund

    I live in Texas now (but not a native), and even as someone who follows politics closely, I can barely remember the name of Cruz’s opponent. I’d wager that nearly everyone in Texas knows the name Ted Cruz and that 95% can’t name his opponent. Cruz had a nasty primary battle and he continued to run ads pretty much straight from that primary through the general election. His was a household name by election day. I don’t recall ever hearing one peep about his Democratic challenger. The Democrats didn’t try very hard.

  • Nylund

    I live in Texas now (but not a native), and even as someone who follows politics closely, I can barely remember the name of Cruz’s opponent. I’d wager that nearly everyone in Texas knows the name Ted Cruz and that 95% can’t name his opponent. Cruz had a nasty primary battle and he continued to run ads pretty much straight from that primary through the general election. His was a household name by election day. I don’t recall ever hearing one peep about his Democratic challenger. The Democrats didn’t try very hard.

  • Naja pallida

    The unsustainable degree of socialism… that doesn’t and has never existed in this country. Unless you’re referring to the corporate socialism, then I could agree. You don’t think that giving trillions away to billionaires and bankers, and blowing more trillions on unnecessary wars and sustaining the military industrial complex has had an impact at all? You don’t think that letting Wall Street essentially gamble with the entire economy for only their own benefit had any impact on our current fiscal situation?

  • Naja pallida

    The unsustainable degree of socialism… that doesn’t and has never existed in this country. Unless you’re referring to the corporate socialism, then I could agree. You don’t think that giving trillions away to billionaires and bankers, and blowing more trillions on unnecessary wars and sustaining the military industrial complex has had an impact at all? You don’t think that letting Wall Street essentially gamble with the entire economy for only their own benefit had any impact on our current fiscal situation?

  • Nylund

    “It would admittedly be a pity to see Austin go, but the rest of the state better hurry up and move.”

    You do realize that Obama won the popular vote not just in Austin, but Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and El Paso, right?

    Obama got 3.3 million votes in Texas (out of about 7.8 million total). That’s more votes than he got in Ohio. More than he got Illinois. More than he got in Pennsylvania. Out of those 3.3 million only 231k of those came from Travis County (where Austin is). This post is a big spit in the face to the other 3+ million people who voted for Obama who don’t live in Austin.

    Yes, Texas is still a “red” state, but most of the cities are not only purple, but pretty darn blue. Dallas went 57% Obama, 47% Romney. People all over the state are working hard to make it better.

  • Nylund

    “It would admittedly be a pity to see Austin go, but the rest of the state better hurry up and move.”

    You do realize that Obama won the popular vote not just in Austin, but Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and El Paso, right?

    Obama got 3.3 million votes in Texas (out of about 7.8 million total). That’s more votes than he got in Ohio. More than he got Illinois. More than he got in Pennsylvania. Out of those 3.3 million only 231k of those came from Travis County (where Austin is). This post is a big spit in the face to the other 3+ million people who voted for Obama who don’t live in Austin.

    Yes, Texas is still a “red” state, but most of the cities are not only purple, but pretty darn blue. Dallas went 57% Obama, 47% Romney. People all over the state are working hard to make it better.

  • Naja pallida

    And how do you track someone who simply overstayed their visa? Make them wear an ankle bracelet with a GPS tracker if they want to enter the country? Round up everyone who you think looks Mexican and demand to see their papers? Please, give me a viable solution that doesn’t violate more legal citizens than illegals.

  • Naja pallida

    And how do you track someone who simply overstayed their visa? Make them wear an ankle bracelet with a GPS tracker if they want to enter the country? Round up everyone who you think looks Mexican and demand to see their papers? Please, give me a viable solution that doesn’t violate more legal citizens than illegals.

  • Naja pallida

    Well, ultimately that is the real problem. We dangle jobs and opportunity in front of them, by actively encouraging employers to hire illegals to save a buck… instead of finding a way to make immigration easier, for both immigrants and employers.

    There was a time, before our modern immigration system, when migrant workers would come in during the working season. Do the jobs, and then go back to Mexico for the off-season. Then we put up all sorts of barriers to make that all but impossible for the majority of workers… so now they come in as always, but instead of going back home in the off-season, they just work a different job, and stay. And it has been proven time and time again, that they’re not really “stealing jobs from Americans” because the vast majority work jobs that only desperate Americans would take. Of course, in this economy, there are a lot more desperate Americans… but for some reason, still not a lot of them looking at picking produce for pennies a pound as a career choice.

  • Naja pallida

    Well, ultimately that is the real problem. We dangle jobs and opportunity in front of them, by actively encouraging employers to hire illegals to save a buck… instead of finding a way to make immigration easier, for both immigrants and employers.

    There was a time, before our modern immigration system, when migrant workers would come in during the working season. Do the jobs, and then go back to Mexico for the off-season. Then we put up all sorts of barriers to make that all but impossible for the majority of workers… so now they come in as always, but instead of going back home in the off-season, they just work a different job, and stay. And it has been proven time and time again, that they’re not really “stealing jobs from Americans” because the vast majority work jobs that only desperate Americans would take. Of course, in this economy, there are a lot more desperate Americans… but for some reason, still not a lot of them looking at picking produce for pennies a pound as a career choice.

  • Jeffrey White

    Immigration is a Federal issue. The Federal Government done everything it can to block states from trying to enforce immigration laws. Haven’t you watched the news over the past few years?

    Overstaying a visa is still illegal therefore when immigrants overstay their visa, they become illegal immigrants.

  • Jeffrey White

    When you have 10 or more immigrants renting a small home to reduce rent they have a lot of income to send back. Many that I interacted with while living in TX would work here for 10 or so years while sending money back to Mexico. They could then move back and live comfortably.

    $27,000 is right at half the average, but you should actually use the median income as the average is skewed because you can’t earn below zero but you can earn in the millions.

    You’re right, TX has no state income tax. My property tax there on a modest home was about $4k/year. Now I am living in a state with an income tax where my property tax on a home worth twice as much is less than $1k/year. They were paying neither.

    I have no problem with people doing what they were doing if… if they were here legally.

  • Jeffrey White

    When you have 10 or more immigrants renting a small home to reduce rent they have a lot of income to send back. Many that I interacted with while living in TX would work here for 10 or so years while sending money back to Mexico. They could then move back and live comfortably.

    $27,000 is right at half the average, but you should actually use the median income as the average is skewed because you can’t earn below zero but you can earn in the millions.

    You’re right, TX has no state income tax. My property tax there on a modest home was about $4k/year. Now I am living in a state with an income tax where my property tax on a home worth twice as much is less than $1k/year. They were paying neither.

    I have no problem with people doing what they were doing if… if they were here legally.

  • Naja pallida

    From day one, the numbers were probably much lower. I’m sure most people didn’t want their whole world turned upside down, and didn’t really care one way or another, they just wanted to live their lives without someone telling them what to do.

  • Naja pallida

    It is impossible to know how many illegals actually filled out their census forms, but undoubtedly some did, as the forms do not make you specify citizenship… but there are third party groups, on all sides of the political spectrum, that spend a lot of time estimating these numbers. Even the state government itself estimates that the number of illegals in Texas is around 1.6 million at the highest.

    Texas has no state income tax. Revenues are drawn from consumption taxes (sales tax, gas tax, utility taxes, etc), property taxes, usage fees for services… it is nearly impossible to live some place and not pay some kind of taxes.

    As for sending a huge proportion of their income back to Mexico, estimates for average household income for an illegal family is around $27,000 … less than half the national average. How much do you think they have left after paying living expenses? Do you suppose their family in Mexico has a car elevator in their house because of all that cash?

  • percysowner

    Then y’all will be paying extra shipping costs to sell to nations that have HUGE taxes on oil and gas. And we’ll buy the oil from other countries. Actually without y’all lobbying to get the tax breaks on your oil and gas, we might finally start putting money into renewable energy so we don’t need y’all’s oil and gas, which would be better for the world too.

    Since half the reason y’all want to secede is so you can go all free market and save money, Y’all might be a tad put out to have to spend more to get the same amount on your oil and gas when instead y’all can just continue to use the pipelines that would be going across the United States, y’all.

  • Jeffrey White

    The implementing of austerity programs were due to necessity. That necessity was caused by the unsustainable degree of socialism.

  • Naja pallida

    Of course, illegals make up a tiny minority in Texas… and historically lack much influence in elections because, well, they don’t vote. If legal citizens are voting on those issues, it is because the state and federal governments have done so very little to address the complete mess that our immigration system has become.

    Federal money and manpower for border enforcement is at an all time high, as are deportations, but there’s a big problem there. Most illegals come into the country perfectly legally, and just overstay their visitation visa. The vast majority are not wading the Rio Grande in the dead of night, contrary to the popular image of a Mexican immigrant. So unless you want to start just preventing Mexicans from visiting the United States, vacationing here, and shopping here…the border will always be porous. The solution isn’t a big wall and more xenophobia, it is finding a way to make it easier for people to immigrate legally, so they don’t have to live at the fringes of society. Finding a way to make them legal, so they can pay their taxes, and actually fully participate in America.

  • Jeffrey White

    How many illegals do you think are actually on the census? What contribution in taxes do they provide? No income taxes as they’re paid off the books.

    Sales tax? Some, but when many are sending a huge portion of their income to families back in Mexico, the outflow of money greatly exceeds the inflow due to services.

  • Jeffrey White

    From day 1? Hardly.

  • Jeffrey White

    True, if they didn’t stop the illegals from coming across the border which is the responsibility (and utter failure) of the federal government.

    You apparently don’t see the lack of immigration law enforcement for what it truly accomplishes.

  • HolyMoly

    I wouldn’t be opposed to returning to the tax rates of the mid-1950s (70% corporate taxes or higher), when there was an unprecedented rate of growth…a rapidly expanding middle class, massive infrastructure improvement. And all of that was presided over by a Republican president (although he could just as easily have run on the Democratic ticket and won either way).

    And yes, “socialism” as an economic model can be successful. Most European nations have some degree of socialism, particularly when it comes to healthcare (and are rated higher in quality of life, higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, etc.). The problems of late that they have encountered can be attributed to implementing austerity programs, which is pretty much on the other side of the spectrum.

  • Jeffrey White

    You obviously have not been paying attention to this thing called “executive order”. It’s used when the executive branch wants to bypass the congressional branch.

    About taxes. You should do a little research. Federal revenue as a percent of GDP has remained in a very narrow band (15 – 20%) no matter the top tax bracket. The problem is that we consistently spend more than this. Historically, raising taxes hasn’t resulted in an increase in revenue and lowering taxes hasn’t resulted in an increase. The private sector economics adjust naturally resulting in no gain or loss to this range.

    The only thing that will get this country back on track is to cut government spending. No amount of tax increases, cuts, incentives, breaks, loopholes or whatever else you wish to employ will result in a sustainable change in federal revenue.

  • Naja pallida

    Ending the wars, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, and stopping trying to police the world with our military would solve most of our fiscal problems without even considering any other cuts to domestic spending or looking towards Social Security.

  • HolyMoly

    LOL might as well…practically 99% of everything they buy is made in China

  • Naja pallida

    Somewhere between 15 and 20% of the colonists were Loyalists. 40-45% supported the Revolution. The rest just wanted to live their lives.

  • Naja pallida

    Except that illegals account for less than one percent of Texas’ population (~0.06%), and statistics have shown has actually been decreasing with the poor economy (though, admittedly less in Texas than other places)… plus, the Texas Comptroller actually found that illegals contribute more in taxes than they cost the state in services, while at the same time the state bills the federal government for some of the expenses it incurs addressing the issues of illegals.

    While about 1.4% of Texans lack basic literacy skills, almost all the other problems, from health to the crime rate, can be traced directly to this lack of attention paid to education, at all levels, in the state. Not the illegal immigration problem. Simply blaming the foreigners is short-sighted, at best. Even if Texas kicked out all the illegals tomorrow, it would still have staggering problems with poverty, lack of health care, lack of education, and crime.

  • Jeffrey White

    What’s the actually percentage of people who supported severing ties with England? Do you really think a majority of people wished for a revolutionary war?

    I’ll bet most people don’t even know about the petition site. I’m sure the percentage of signatories will rise considerably before the December 9th deadline especially with the press coverage.

  • jill

    Some of us who call Texas home voted for Obama, voted against Perry, and think breaking away from the United States and denouncing our citizenship in our country to be silly to stupid. I’m from Texas, I’m from America and I don’t think there is any separating the two. I’m also tired of reading online about how backwards and uneducated I am. I’m sick of the divisiveness of the two parties and the hatred that is ensuing over my side vs. your side that will not help us to resolve any of our country’s problems. If anything is going to get “fixed” then the party leaders need to learn to talk one another and truly work on compromises. As for the rest of us, its high time when you post something, think about how much hate is in it first.

  • bdgartesia

    Exactly!!!!!

  • bdgartesia

    I’m sure they would be ok with that, as long the rest of the US would be willing to accept that yall would be forfeiting about 1/4 of the nations oil and 1/3 of the natural gas and oh, yall are cold? Boo hooo, start talking to someone else…

  • james

    Ok say all politics aside, How do the American people begin to fix this mess since Washington cant do it, First off i would say Pull all our troops and end the wars we are involved in, let the UN handle this thats what thier there for. Stop speding billions on this war we cant afford.

    Second instead of all this stimulus giveaways, postpone income tax to all Americans that will give then more money in there pocket. CUT spending and spend only on what is necessary. trash Obama Care for now until we can figure out a better way to fund it…. Secure Social security for the older retires remember we will all be old someday….. Stop giving Aid to other countries. that would be a good start

  • Jeffrey

    It’s convenient that you point out the illiteracy, poverty, graduation rate and deficit without acknowledging that a large percentage of the reason stems from the flood of illegal immigrants which is ignored by the federal government.

    Presenting raw numbers to support your viewpoint while ignoring the root cause is a sure mark shady journalism.

  • Naja pallida

    Maybe Texas could ask China to protect them.

  • HolyMoly

    On a semi-related note: If Taiwan decided to declare independence from China (it has never officially done so), China has threatened to invade. The U.S. has vowed to protect Taiwan if that should ever happen. The Chinese government reminded us that we didn’t allow the Southern states to go quietly in 1861, and cites that as a precedent for their own stated position with regard to Taiwan.

    This is not entirely unrelated, I guess, because it would bring up very interesting questions with regard to how we would treat another wave of secessions here vs. how we would treat them elsewhere in the world (Taiwan is pretty much already its own independent nation, so I guess that could be the one important distinction between the two).

    That being said, I still believe the whole secession issue is nothing more than bluster by a very small minority of gasbags and will amount to nothing more than a few pg. 2 paragraphs in our newspapers. But it’s still interesting to discuss nonetheless. :-)

  • Naja pallida

    The problem is, most of that money has already been appropriated. It’s just been a convenient talking point for Perry to claim it is there, but it will be needed to cover drastic budgetary shortfalls in the not too distant future.

  • Naja pallida

    You keep using that word ‘socialism’. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Bills have to pass Congress before the President signs them. No matter what time of day he signs them at. Welcome to elementary school civics.

    What happened to your Second Amendment? It got expanded to include carrying within national parks. Nothing more. Despite numerous mass shootings, and the attempted assassination of a member of Congress.

    You don’t seem to understand that this whole argument is predicated around returning to the tax rates of the mid 1990s, when business was booming for everyone and unemployment was exponentially lower. The Bush tax cuts hurt us far more than they helped us. These are very basic mathematical facts. Increases in corporate taxes do not automatically mean an increase in cost to the consumer, in fact, historically speaking it has done the exact opposite, because businesses choose to reinvest that money immediately, instead of hoarding it and paying taxes on it. Whereas now, they just pocket as much money as they can, because they don’t need to pay taxes, nor bother risking reinvesting.

  • HolyMoly

    On the question of whether or not Texas, upon entering the Union, reserved the right to secede at any time, that is pretty much bunk. They DID secede in 1861, fought against the Union, and lost. They were subsequently brought back into the Union. If they had the right which Rick Perry has claimed, Lincoln could/should have let them go and concentrated on the remaining rebellious states.

    The Constitution is silent on the idea of secession; it would depend on the will of those in power whether or not they would seek to prevent it. But if you go by precedent, then yes, it was deemed to be illegal in 1861 and that view was enforced. There were rumblings of secession from New England states after the election of Jefferson in 1800 that continued through to the end of the War of 1812, but the issue never came to a head, so no precedent to be found there.

    All this bluster because they didn’t get their way at the polls. “Democracy” to some people obviously means “vote my way or else” (we’re not fully democratic, but to the extent that we are, the will of the people should prevail). You win some, you lose some. I had to put up with Reagan and the Bush twins for 20 years, but never once thought of taking my ball and going home. Some things are more important to me than that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003755352183 Thomas Clarke

    Spread the word! https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/resign-office/DWwBnKh7
    Let’s get Obama out of office with this petition. We need 150 signatures to
    make it public, please make an account and sign. Thanks!

  • bdgartesia

    hahaha, I feel like I just wasted 5 minutes of my life..Go Texas! I really wish I were a Texan right now! This blog is ridiculous, really.. America deserves the “truth.” Come now?! The stats were even stupid, complaining that Texas has crime, has people in jail, and also that they have the death penalty… sounds like you need to pick a point and focus on it because it sounds like Texas is aware that they have a crime problem and are trying to fix it. I hope Texas goes, and the rest of the country realizes what all Texas was doing for the country financially. PS, I’m moving to Texas, y’all are idiots.

  • james

    well Texas isnt the only state that has pushed for this there are 33 other states that have partitioned in the last few days. But that not the point here its our Government!!! Most Americans have forgotten what it is all about, 47% want the government to take care of them that’s not what this country was built on….. I know most of you are going to say why blame OBAMA, well there all to blame….. All parties are there for themselves, example lets use the current president since hes the one in office, his first term was all about OBAMA care nothing else, WTF!!!! didn’t he know there was an economical crisis? Now we have to worry about more cost to us and businesses…. Oh yea TAX the rich Hell never mind the fact that the rich own all the companies that give the working class jobs, corporation answer to stock holders and they want there return on there investment. Guess what people buy going after the rich you will force them to retaliate and the way they do this is simple basic economy rules, for those of you that never took economy in college it means PROFIT!!!!!!! u charge me more taxes and fees ill pass the cost on to the consumers that mean you America!!! Higher cost on everything you buy, Oh and one more thing LAYOFFS! best way to cut cost…… My new saying is if You voted for Obama and his tax hikes on corporate America you may have just voted yourself s out of a job, remember that when you get you layoff notice, and if you think im BSing look around major companies have already said they are waiting on election out come to cut, now by next year companies are preparing for the tax hikes and obama care fees, there laying off and cut to part time to avoid paying obama care fees.

    Democrats want socialism it wont work people, Socialism is one step away from communism divide everything equal, NOT i work my ass off all my life to have what i have I’m not going to give it to some Moron sitting on the couch watching OPRA and getting a government check. Im glad people are finally waking up to whats going on out there, you walk up to most people on the street and they have no clue, Duh!!!! is there response. And does it not worry you people that OBAMA signed in the Marshall Law act this last 4th of July at midnight when congress and the house where empty? no one there to question it, and now that hes been reelected instead of working one what needs to be done that SOB is making deals with the United Nation to disarm Americas with a UN gun treaty, allowing the UN to govern Americans on what type of fire arms we can have? Hello What the Heck happened to our second amendment!!!!

    Whats wrong with you people? This mess can be fixed but not the way Democrats and republicans are doing it. We need another George Washington!!!! and a United American People, Stop bickering amongst yourself.

  • Naja pallida

    As was pointed out repeatedly by people, it is a very tiny movement. Yet, they’re very loud, so get media attention. If you would like to meet some secessionists, go stand in front of the Capitol building for a while. You’re bound to run into someone wearing a Texas flag, crying about how Libruls are ruining Amerrica, and that Texas should just cut off its head, to spite them.

  • Michael

    Dumbest blog I have ever read. You have probably never even been to Texas, it’s not as bad as you describe it. I have lived here my whole life and I have found nothing wrong with it. I have also never met a person in my life that has said ANYTHING about seceding. Chris, you are the biggest moron I have ever seen on the Internet.

  • BlueIdaho

    I was born in Texas and lived there most of my life. This is funny, but it is just a fringe of the teabaggers who is promoting this. What I don’t understand is how Cruz won the senate seat if most of the urban centers voted for Obama? I suppose all the gerrymandering over the past few years has worked.

  • Michael

    Chris, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. You call yourself a blogger?

  • Bill3419

    Why do Texans hate Democracy?

    Goodby have fun Texas, but don’t ask for help when Mexico tris to take it’s land back.

  • http://www.facebook.com/midinerd Jordan Stefanelli

    Agreed, threshold should be based on percentage and not some deprecated constant.

  • benb

    Texas took $6.4 Billion in stimulus money in 2010 and now they have $8.8 Billion in their “Rainy Day Fund”. They need to Man Up and pay it back to reduce the deficit.

  • Indigo

    TRUTH!

  • Indigo

    Whereas,

    Whereas,

    Whereas,

    Be it resolved that

    We Do Hereby Expel Texas!

  • Naja pallida

    Why would they do such a thing? They love them some federal money. Something has to pay for their giant budgetary holes. You can only cover so much up with accounting tricks.

  • Drew2u

    Doesn’t Texas have the right to reject federal funding? Why don’t they start with that and see how it goes? Then again, that idea is called ‘logic’. Something the Texas Textbooks are severely lacking of.

  • Naja pallida

    As I pointed out above, it is gerrymandering that makes Texas a red state, not the actual voters. There is a strong blue presence, they’re just marginalized.

  • Naja pallida

    I have movements larger than that after my morning coffee.

  • Naja pallida

    That’s what happens when you cut state education funding by billions to pay for tax cuts for oil companies.

  • repubcooks

    unfortunately most texans aren’t able to read this entry

  • Naja pallida
  • Vonti

    Dear Texas,

    We are thrilled with your choice. We applaud your willingness.

    Please, follow through and help save America

  • Buford

    Whose combined number of petition supporters are less than 1% of the population. Radical, irrational idiots who can’t deal with disappointment… that’s all.

  • Buford

    Let’s see… 71K petitioners… so that’s basically every Texan right-wing ‘nutter with cognitive ability sufficient to be brainwashed by Glenn Beck but insufficient to make decisions in their own best interest. Sounds about right.

    FWIW, 71K is about .3% of the Texas population… hardly a ‘movement’.

  • Naja pallida

    Except Obama doesn’t do the budget, Congress does. Wonder who in Congress could be obstructing a balanced budget. Oh, wait… almost all of them.

    Rick Perry has doubled Texas’ debt, and the budget is only balanced on paper by using accounting tricks, like pushing off billions of dollars in funding for various things until the next fiscal year so they don’t appear in the current budget. Not to mention, he took a huge chunk of Obama’s stimulus funds to pay for many of his budgetary holes. He has even pillaged the rainy day fund to pay for his refusal to raise taxes on rich people.

    As for defending itself, all the military matériel belongs to the United States, not Texas. All the soldiers gave an oath to the United States, not Texas. How much do you think would be left in the state after secession?

    Texas receives billions in agricultural subsidies from the federal government… and its percentage of what it pays to the government and what it receives back has been steadily declining. Anyone who thinks Texas could just secede and suddenly be the world’s best nation is deluding themselves. They would basically become a second Mexico… a place for Ford to build another car manufacturing plant to pay workers less than in the US.

  • UncleBucky

    (Also a Northerner living in Chicagoland)

    OK, could we just carve out a place where the baggeurs can be exiled. We keep the better parts of Texas and the mouth-breathers can have something we don’t want. Maybe, force them to live along the coast. Then the next hurricane will take care of the matter? ;o)

  • Naja pallida

    Historically speaking, Texas was a blue-leaning state before the likes of Tom Delay gerrymandered it to within an inch of its life. They have worked very hard to break up Hispanic and Democratic leaning districts to limit their voting influence.

  • HolyMoly

    Well, with an increasing Latino population, if Texas seceded, they might eventually find themselves with majority Latino voters, and eventually a majority Latino government. They might then vote to decide on whether or not they should rejoin Mexico. That would be poetic justice, if it ever came to that. That is, if Latinos are not stripped of their right to vote.

    But probably there’d be a huge migration of people OUT of Texas and into the United States. They’d lose a lot of productive workers, and their economy would tank.

    Honestly, though, I believe it’s all bluster from a bunch of whiny brats, and it’s not going to happen.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Sandie.Wilson4fun Cassandra Kenny Myers-Wilson

    To Date, 28 States have their own petitions…..We are not alone…..

  • Jimmy

    Beyond stupid, and I live in this damn state (although I have to caution that I’m not from this damn state originally). That said, nearly 26 million people live in this state, so the fact that .03% want to secede doesn’t mean much. Anyone with a even half a brain should know what a financial disaster that would be.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Sandie.Wilson4fun Cassandra Kenny Myers-Wilson

    I would happily leave with the true USA values in place. Obama has proven he cannot balance a budget, protect our foreign allies or diplomats, or generate economic growth. Texas has a balanced budget, we can protect ourselves (more Texans have fought in all the US wars than any other state), and 250+ of the Fortune 500 companies reside and/or head quartered in Texas. Think again about the day to trial and tribulations all states and people face ( no success in any state to remove all the issues) however, on the main things Economy, Protection, and Relationships with our partners and allies…The Obama administration looses!! I take our “southern resources” over the bloated DC spending anyday!!

  • http://heimaey.us/ jim morrissey

    This is ridiculous. There are a number of decent people in TX and even though they’re in bad shape, so are a lot of other places. I think it’s easy to dismiss them, but you’d be punishing a lot of good people too.

  • ChiTowny

    As fun as it is to pick on Texas, if you look at the election results, nearly 3.3 million people voted for Obama, and the big metros (Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and El Paso) along with the border states were solid blue. So keep in mind that more people voted for Obama in Texas than some entire states cast votes, particularly in swing states. So as fun as it is to make fun at any single state, seems a bit narrow-minded to throw all people out based on their electoral map color.

  • Phil

    Yes, I can see that by this article Texas IS IN bad shape. Hence, I can totally sympathize with their will to leave and start taking matters into their own hands.

  • Brogue

    “Texas keeps talking about leave [sic], so go already.”

    No, it doesn’t. A minority of the fringe crackpots do. This is not to defend the Republican policies and government that have run Texas into the ground, but let’s be serious here. Also, while being told to “hurry up and move” may seem like the obvious blasé response to an expatriate in Paris, as you have pointed out, Texas is a hole. Many of us would move if we could afford it or had the opportunity to. We’ve had that thought ourselves much more often than you have had it for us.

    In 10 to 20 years, the majority hispanic population of Texas children will grow up, and most of them will likely vote Democratic. A Republican simply can not win the presidency with a blue Texas, so you might want to reconsider the eagerness with which you flippantly throw the baby out with the bathwater.

  • percysowner

    I have read that with the growth in the minority population in Texas, in a few years it will become a blue state so we may need to put up with them for a few more years. That said, if we decide to let them secede, we should make one of the conditions that they are not permitted to ask for or receive foreign aid from the US for at least 10 years, including if they get hit by a hurricane. If they really don’t want us then they should never be able to get our money either.

  • loona_c

    Hey, hey, hey. There are plenty of normal, responsible, democratic types here in this state. Albeit embarrassed ones. Don’t forget we had to put up with George W. and Rick Perry before they made the national stage. We have had our highlights: LBJ, Barbara Jordan and Ann Richards. All too few and far between. And there’s hope. Star County (far south TX, majority Hispanic) was like 83% in favor of Obama. Harris County (Houston) went for Obama by 584 votes. So remember us long-suffering normal folks when disparaging the state.

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