Current TV’s Stephanie Miller: It’s an Internet lie that Salvation Army is anti-gay

Salvation Army Has Suggested Gays Be Celibate, Jobless, Homeless, and/or Dead. But They’re Really Not Anti-gay.

Oh. My. God.

I cannot believe the clip I just watched of Current TV’s Stephanie Miller, a big progressive talk radio host and openly gay, talking to Major George Hood of the Salvation Army. In the clip, titled “The truth about the Salvation Army’s stance on LGBT issues,” Miller agrees with Major Hood that the gay community’s concerns about the Salvation Army’s anti-gay history are all Internet lies.

A part of me hesitated before writing this post.  I don’t like bashing liberal allies.  And regular readers may have noticed that we don’t usually criticize other progressive blogs, for example, for that reason.  But what Stephanie Miller did during this broadcast yesterday, exonerating 40 years of Salvation Army anti-gay hate – claiming it wasn’t even real, and agreeing with the Salvation Army hack (who himself has defended not hiring gays in the past) that those “blog sites” are just liars. Jesus Christ.

First what Miller and Hood said.  Then a long litany of the Salvation Army’s anti-gay hate over the decades, since apparently the Google isn’t working over at Current TV.

STEPHANIE MILLER: We’ve gotten a lot of letters about the Salvation Army being anti-gay, can you address that?

SALVATION ARMY’S GEORGE HOOD: Well it’s a great misunderstanding that’s spread across the country, and we’re doing everything we can to re-educate and help people understand that the very mission of the Salvation Army calls for meeting the needs of humans without discrimination…. So discrimination is not something that we would gladly carry the banner or pride over, we want to dispel the notion that we do discriminate when the fact is we’re working very hard not discriminating and it is a part of our mission.

MILLER: You know, Chris, you can help me with some of the things, you know, again, you’re right, Major, once things get out there, you know

HOOD: Many of those things start fueling through blog sites and postings on the Internet and it’s really really tough to shut them down when they get out there.

MILLER: And you don’t discriminate against hiring gays?

HOOD: We do not.  We have many who work for us and will gladly tell you they work for us.  It’s not a question that we ask in an interview process.

MILLER: Okay.

MILLER’S SIDEKICK: Are you saying there are things on the Internet that are not true?

(Everyone laughs)

Funny, because you sure did discriminate, Mr. Hood.  How do we know?  From a quote a Salvation Army spokesman gave to the Washington Post.  His name is George Hood.

George Hood, a senior official with the Salvation Army, said the group never discriminates in delivering its services, but on the question of hiring gay employees, ‘it really begins to chew away at he theological fabric of who we are.’”- Washington Post, 7/10/2001

You can argue that this was 11 years ago, but read one.  I’ve got tons of examples from this year alone.  But before we go there, George Hood knows darn well why people think the Salvation Army discriminates against gays, and when he says the reason is those blogs sites spouting lies, rather than his own quote to the Washington Post, then it’s George Hood, and through him the Salvation Army, that’s the liar here.

And Stephanie Miller ate it up, and spit out to all of America as “the truth.”  She actually interviewed the man who defended not hiring gays, and exonerated him from the very thing he had already admitted publicly.

Hood’s quote is enough on its face to show what a liar he and the Salvation Army is on this issue.  But let’s walk through the rest of the anti-gay horror that is the Salvation Army, since now we have to since Miller and her cohorts think the Salvation Army’s anti-gay past is funny, and a lie.  There is so much information, and it’s 1am, so hang with me – the list of anti-gay sleights is quite large.

2012: Salvation Army Official Says Non-Celibate Gays Deserve to Die

Salvation Army Australia, this year:

On the 21st of June 2012, in an interview with Melbourne radio station Joy 94.9 FM, Major Andrew Craibe, the Salvation Army’s Territorial Media Relations Director for the Southern Territory in Victoria, stated that non-celibate gay people deserved to die. He explained that this was part of the Salvation Army’s belief system, as discussed in “Salvation Story: Salvationist Handbook of Doctrine.” He also claimed in the interview that being gay was a choice, like the consumption of alcohol.

And here’s the audio:

And here’s a partial transcript from Pink News:

In the interview, Ryan told Major Craibe that she had read the Salvation Story: Salvationist Handbook of Doctrine, published in London. She went on to point out several parts which she found disturbing including “The problem of evil” (page 28) which cites Romans 1:18-32 and its vitriolic condemnation of homosexuality.

“For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. . .

“They know God’s decree, that those who practise such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practise them.”

Asked whether the Salvation Army took the wording literally, i.e. that practising homosexuals should be put to death, the Major Craibe replied in the affirmative. Truth Wins Out transcribed the resulting discussion

CRAIBE: Well, that’s a part of our belief system.

RYAN (cutting in): So we should die.

CRAIBE: You know, we have an alignment to the Scriptures, but that’s our belief.

RYAN: Wow. So we should die.

It goes on just as bad.

2012: Salvation Army Called Homosexuality “An Unacceptable Urge,” Defended Discrimination Against Non-Celibate Gays

And let’s zoom forward to just this year, when the Salvation Army headquarters called homosexuality “an unacceptable urge” and defended discriminating against promoting gays who aren’t celibate.

More on the unacceptable urge:

On June 18, 2012 the Salvation Army was featured in an ABC news report that stated “Salvos back away from anti-gay comments” in which the [local] army stated “The Salvation Army in Australia is distancing itself from a statement by its international parent organisation that homosexuality is “an unacceptable urge“.”

2012: Salvation Army Takes Position Against Gay Marriage in UK and Australia, Trying to Influence Legislation

Then there’s the fact that in 2012 the Salvation Army took a position against gay marriage on its UK Web site.  And the Salvation Army lobbied against gay marriage in Australia too.

Anna Brown, convener of the Victorian Gay & Lesbian Rights Lobby, said the charity had also opposed gay marriage at a House of Representatives inquiry.

“Actively campaigning against marriage equality is counter to the principles of compassion and humanity, and these are the very values that motivate most Australians to donate to the Salvation Army,” she said.

“It’s difficult to reconcile how an organisation seeking to alleviate social disadvantage can play a role in perpetuating views … founded in prejudice (that) cause significant harm to the health and wellbeing of gay, lesbian and transgender Australians and their families.”

“Homosexual practice would render any person ineligible for full membership (soldiership) in the [Salvation] Army”

More on that “homosexual urge” quote – I found it on the Salvation Army Australia’s own Web site a number of years ago:

“[Homosexual activity is] as rebellion against God’s plan for the created order…. Homosexual practice, however, is, in the light of Scripture, clearly unacceptable. Such activity is chosen behaviour and is thus a matter of the will. It is therefore able to be directed or restrained in the same way heterosexual urges are controlled. Homosexual practice would render any person ineligible for full membership (soldiership) in the [Salvation] Army.” – Salvation Army Australia Web site (emphasis added)

That’s yet another pretty clear statement that the Salvation Army support(ed) discrimination against gays.

2012: Salvation Army Allegedly Fires Employee for Being Bisexual

Danielle Morantez:

After a great deal of soul-searching, I realized that I couldn’t, so I decided to take the next step in discussing my concerns with my supervisor in accordance with employee handbook’s “conflict resolution” section: last Friday afternoon I handed Captain Stephanie a letter. In it, I came out as a bisexual woman, expressed my concerns about the aforementioned passages in the employee handbook, and attached copies of the same….

I arrived on the 23rd exhausted from a weekend filled with stress and anxiety. Imagine my surprise, then, when Captains Bill and Stephanie informed me that they had decided not to fire me, that they respected my integrity and honesty, and that they were deeply grateful for my presence on the Salvation Army team. They even said that Asit George, a Salvation Army Major who outranked them, had approved their decision, saying that it was completely fine to keep me on staff. I asked the captains point blank if I needed to be worried about the jeopardy of my job any further, and they said “no.”

I was so relieved to be able to keep both my job and my integrity that Adam and I went out for lunch to celebrate. After my break, Capt. Stephanie and I began packing backpacks full of brand-new school supplies for distribution to the children of low-income families. We had a wonderful and candid conversation about family dynamics, our belief systems, and our pasts.

Forced to Fire Me
The conversation was interrupted by Captain Bill, who summoned Stephanie into his office. They both returned at about 4pm, their eyes brimming with tears. We returned to the office, where they told me that they had just been informed that their decision to keep me had been overruled. Captains Bill and Stephanie were being forced to fire me. Their superiors told them that they were not allowed to even discuss it with me – I was to sign an exit interview sheet and they were to immediately escort me from the property.

Feeling shocked and deeply betrayed, I asked if I could at least show them my system for reorganizing files, so that they could more efficiently help the clients in my absence. They agreed. Stephanie was heartbroken. She cried the entire time we went through the paperwork, continuously apologizing to me and saying that firing me was “the worst thing [she's] ever had to do.” Captain Bill said that he was only allowed to say what the Salvation Army told him to and that since he was forbidden from revealing his own personal opinion, he would not say another word.

And for the rest of the time, he didn’t. He just sat there with tears in his eyes.

Salvation Army USA Turned Away Gay Couple in Need

But what about Hood’s other assertion, that of course the Salvation Army would never discriminate against gays in its provision of services?  Well, ask gay blogger Bil Browning and his boyfriend – because they say the Salvation Army discriminated against them because they’re gay.  From the NYT, last year:

Bil Browning and his boyfriend were homeless. To protect the identity of the boyfriend (now ex-boyfriend), Mr. Browning will not say specifically where, just that it was in “southern Indiana,” about 20 years ago. But he is very explicit about who refused to give them shelter.“The Salvation Army refused to help us,” Mr. Browning recalls, “unless we broke up and then left the ‘sinful homosexual lifestyle’ behind. We slept on the street, and they didn’t help when we declined to break up at their insistence.”

Mr. Browning’s boyfriend was wearing a “Silence = Death” AIDS pin on his jacket, which must have tipped off the Salvation Army worker. “He told us we needed to be saved,” Mr. Browning says. “If we were willing to attend church services, he could help. We would have to break up, only one of us could stay in the shelter, and if there was room for the other, he would have to be on the opposite side of the room, and we wouldn’t even look at each other.”

2011: Salvation Army Calls on Gays to be Celibate

And here’s quote the NYT pulled from the Salvation Army Web site last year, before the SA changed the link and put something completely different up there, in order to make them sound super pro-gay:

The Salvation Army’s “Position Statement” on homosexuality, found on its Web site, reads in part: “The Salvation Army does not consider same-sex orientation blameworthy in itself. Homosexual conduct, like heterosexual conduct, requires individual responsibility and must be guided by the light of scriptural teaching. Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life.”

So, the Salvation Army, that is simply about helping people, has a stated position that gay people should be celibate.

WTF does that have to do with helping poor people, having a public statement on your Web site telling gay people to be celibate?  Sure not sounding like your run of the mill charity, are they?

2004: Salvation Army Threatens to Stop Serving NYC Rather than Obey Pro-gay Law

The NYT also notes that in 2004, the Salvation Army threatened to pull out of NYC after the city council passed an ordinance requiring that organizations that get contracts with the city must provide benefits to the partners of gay employees.  Again, they’re not simply a charity.

2001: Salvation Army Secretly Works with Bush Administration to Make it Easier to Discriminate Against Gays

Back in 2001, the salvation Army’s George Hood was interviewing with the Washington Post because the Salvation Army got caught secretly asking the Bush administration to make it easier for government-funded organizations to discriminate against gays:

“The [Bush’ administration is working with the nation’s largest charity, the Salvation Army, to make it easier for government-funded religious groups to practice hiring discrimination against gay people, according to an internal Salvation Army document.

The White House has made a “firm commitment” to the Salvation Army to issue a regulation protecting such charities from state and city efforts to prevent discrimination against gays in hiring and domestic- partner benefits, according to the Salvation Army report. The Salvation Army, in turn, has agreed to use its clout to promote the administration’s “faith-based” social services initiative, which seeks to direct more government funds to religious charities….

George Hood, a senior official with the Salvation Army, said the group never discriminates in delivering its services, but on the question of hiring gay employees, ‘it really begins to chew away at he theological fabric of who we are.’”- Washington Post, 7/10/2001.

Yeah, no one knows how these rumors about the Salvation Army being anti-gay got started.  No one except the Salvation Army.

2001: Salvation Army Rescinds Domestic Partner Benefits for Gay Employees on West Coast

Then there’s this:

The Salvation Army Western Territory approved a plan in October 2001 to start offering domestic-partnership benefits to gay employees. Members of various evangelical Christian interest groups protested the decision. Focus on the Family founder James Dobson excoriated the Salvation Army for abandoning its “moral integrity” and urged his radio listeners to bombard the organization’s offices with phone calls and letters. The American Family Association also accused the Salvation Army of a “monstrous … appeasement of sin” that resulted in a “betrayal of the church.” In November 2001 The Salvation Army nation wide rescinded the Western Territory’s decision with an announcement that it would only provide benefits coverage for different-sex spouses and dependent children of its employees.

2000: Salvation Army Lobbies Against Repeal of Hideously Anti-Gay Law in Scotland

In Scotland, back in 2000, the Salvation Army publicly lobbied against the repeal of a hateful anti-gay law:

The amendment stated that a local authority “shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality” or “promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship”.

1980s: Salvation Army Lobbies for Anti-gay Laws in New Zealand

The Salvation Army also had a history of lobbying for anti-gay laws in New Zealand all the way back to the 1980s.

Now let’s revisit Stephanie Miller’s interview yesterday with the Salvation Army’s George Hood

STEPHANIE MILLER: We’ve gotten a lot of letters about the Salvation Army being anti-gay, can you address that?

SALVATION ARMY’S GEORGE HOOD: Well it’s a great misunderstanding that’s spread across the country, and we’re doing everything we can to re-educate and help people understand that the very mission of the Salvation Army calls for meeting the needs of humans without discrimination…. So discrimination is not something that we would gladly carry the banner or pride over, we want to dispel the notion that we do discriminate when the fact is we’re working very hard not discriminating and it is a part of our mission.

MILLERYou know, Chris, you can help me with some of the things, you know, again, you’re right, Major, once things get out there, you know

HOODMany of those things start fueling through blog sites and postings on the Internet and it’s really really tough to shut them down when they get out there.

MILLER: And you don’t discriminate against hiring gays?

HOOD: We do not.  We have many who work for us and will gladly tell you they work for us.  It’s not a question that we ask in an interview process.

MILLER: Okay.

MILLER’S SIDEKICK: Are you saying there are things on the Internet that are not true?

(Everyone laughs)

I’m not laughing.  If you aren’t either, download these vouchers and put them in the Salvation Army’s red kettles instead of cash – give your money to a charity that doesn’t hate.

salavation army vouchers anti-gay


Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown (1989); and worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, and as a stringer for the Economist. Frequent TV pundit: O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline & Reliable Sources. Bio, .

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  • thoomfoote

    It is amusing to watch otherwise “good Christians” try to reinterpret passages from the bible that they know are bad publicity. Many christians today complain about “moral relevancy” occurring in America as an indicator of moral decline when they are doing the exact same thing. If you believe in the bible, then you MUST believe in stoning to death gays, adulteresses and other sinners.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    And it’s an article about the fact that the Salvation Army wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want to be a far-right gay-hating evangelical activist church, and then they want liberals to give them their money because they’re not really a far-right gay-hating evangelical activist church. We’re simply informing people of who they’re really giving money to. It’s the Salvation Army’s choice as to whether they want to keep denying who they really are, or change.

  • nobodobodon

    I feel like you read a different article than I did.

    This was mostly about 1. The Salvation Army publicly *lying* about their anti-gay stance. and 2. A supposedly progressive blogger supporting them in that lie and 3. a church masquerading as a charity to increase their own donations.

    Also, your nonsense about “tolerance” is a false equivalence. Being a real victim of bigotry is far worse than being accused of bigotry.

    Are anti-gay people being routinely assaulted, fired, harassed, vandalized, denied housing and education, given unfair treatment by police, prosecutors, judges, teachers, store-owners, and random strangers, just for being anti-gay? They are not. They are being tolerated.

  • civil

    Wow! You certainly are a tolerant person aren’t you? Much like you expect from Christians eh? If I don’t believe exactly what you do am I a nazi? My grandfather was German. My other grandfather was a nazi concentration camp survivor. We all ate at the same table at holidays with nothing but love for each other. Would that be so hard for you to do, or would you find it necessary to poke at my grandfather because he was German? Do you truly compare anyone and everyone associated with the Salvation Army as being a nazi? You are one of the most hateful people I’ve ever come across. Don’t bother to answer me, because you’ve already done that before you stuck your bigoted foot in your hateful mouth. How does this make you feel? Think. Think again. Then think before speaking.

  • civil

    Who is “they”?

  • civil

    Apparently the Lesbians and Gay Rights Fund is the only good guy. Oops! I forgot they added transgendered onto that too now. Just don’t choose anything with the words, Family, God, Home, Boy Scouts, Church, Faith, Truth, Justice, or the American Way in it. You see, unless you do it their way it’s the wrong way, and they want you to feel sorry for them for being so misunderstood and apparently “hated”. This from the most hateful group of human beings I have ever experienced in all of my life. And now you can add me to the list of hateful people, because I refuse to tolerate at the expense of my own freedom of speech and choice of religious freedom. What a country we live in. And if I offend anyone by saying I believe them to be the most hateful people on this earth, I will not apologize. Perhaps instead, you should take a look at yourself and think about whether you are indeed intolerant of anyone who isn’t gay. Not everyone who isn’t gay is an enemy after all. I’m just at the end of my tolerance is all, and I’m tired of being hated.

  • civil

    This is actually funny. I’m reminded of “part time Christians” who will pick and choose Bible verses to support their own views even though most of the scripture they cite is taken totally out of context. Much like what this article does. It’s so easy to justify what you want when you want it isn’t it.? I really find it funny that it seems so hard for you to believe that the Salvation Army; 1. owes you anything, 2. has no right to have a belief system. 3. should be allowed to remind anyone that they are after all, a Bible based theological organization that in it’s very existence does not condone nor tolerate homosexuality. Why then is it so hard for you to understand that they are NOT pro-gay?!? It’s sounding to me like you truly expect the Salvation Army to back away from it’s theology and accept what you want just because it’s what you want. Are you really surprised that they or any other church organization anywhere is not going to drop their stance on homosexuality? I won’t say they are so much anti-gay as they are pro-God and everything God has given them through the Bible. Whether you choose to accept or believe that concept doesn’t matter. It’s what they are. If you are unable to accept what they want to believe, then why would you expect them to bow down to what you want to believe? For someone who preaches tolerance, you are very intolerant aren’t you? But that doesn’t surprise me, in that I believe the entire gay community only sees what they want to see anyway. If you aren’t gay, you are obviously anti-gay right?

  • Jon Hendry

    ““They know God’s decree, that those who practise such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practise them.””

    I checked, and I didn’t see this passage in any of the copies/editions of “Salvation Story: Salvationist Handbook of Doctrine,” that I found online.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michelegalloza Michele Galloza

    Yes, Red Cross and Goodwill are decent. And Toys for Tots.

  • dggeelong

    There is ONLY ONE religion on earth – Satanism! No matter what the name they will therefore discriminate against everything that will cause somebody to be hurt and made to suffer. Homophobia is a tool of Satan.

    Every major international church or religion has an annual income of more than $1Trillion US. The Salvation Army hide most of this by having 3 totally separate accounting systems, most of what they give to the poor is donated goods. The rest is kept for empire building!

    I have personal knowledge of desperate people being rejected for help with excuses:

    1/ We don’t have what you need [but an inspection of their local shop - they do have it but it is for sale]

    2/ Baby needs were rejected… because we are over our budget!

    The Worst [most evil] thing anybody can do in their life is judge another as having done a wrong! So please, please, PLEASE don’t judge anyone.

    If you want a suggestion of who to donate to, try giving money [first preference - don't judge as to what the person will spend it on] directly to an individual or family who are in need – none of us need to go far to find a needy person.

  • baystater

    She walked it back and apologized profusely today for not doing her homework. Same with Bill Press. They are both matching what was in the Salvation Army kettle donations and giving it to the “Trevor Project” from this point forward.

  • tamarz

    Yeah — saw that after I wrote my comment.

  • http://twitter.com/DaveWilcoxUW Dave Wilcox

    She walked it back big time this morning, with Bill Press joining her. she pretty much admitted she didn’t do any interview prep for the SA guy, and essentially said they made a huge mistake, took ownership of it (as did her producer and Press), and repeatedly apologized.

  • TonyT

    Stephanie Miller did a great mea culpa this morning. Credited John with holding her feet to the fire. Bill Press and her have dropped Salvation Army.

  • Stev84

    They aren’t even a real charity. They are literally a church and their main goal is to convert people. In fact their “help” is sometimes conditional on being preached to. A lot of people don’t even know that they are really a church. They may know that they are religious, but not how much.

  • fredndallas

    And good for you for doing it John. Everyone needed to know. This
    non-discrimination against gay bunk from Salvation Army is pure fraud. I
    personally know of numerous instances. Unfortunately this affair
    already shows that Stephanie (and Current) is not a journalist of any
    kind. She is a “media personality” being used by a fraudulent
    fundamentalist religious organization advancing their peculiar mix of
    coercive religious blackmail and “social service,” frequently delivered
    via ransom. (Are the warm fuzzy kudos and public attention worth it to Stephanie and Current, I
    wonder.)

    This is another important one to take to the mat, John.
    Screaming for full exposure!

  • Jake

    *joins hug*

  • sherman

    Plus Steph gave John props for holding her feet to the fire.

    Group hug.

  • sherman

    Steph and Bill Press have discontinued the SA drive.

    Steph is currently explaining that Current came to them and suggested this competition for SA donations. She said she did not do her research, and admits she screwed up. She admits that the SA mission statement is anti-gay marriage, and there have been incidents as recently as this summer.
    She said it’s her biggest PR situation ever.

    Steph’s final total was $1150. She’s matching that with a donation to the Trevor Project. Press will do the same with his $100 raised.

    Kudos for them correcting their horrendous mistake.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Or, I suppose it’s possible, what were they told to say about the Salvation Army by upper management at Current TV?

  • FunMe

    If not Salvation Army nor United Way, who are the “good guys & gals”?

    Red Cross and Goodwill would be recommended, right?

  • FunMe

    I think she knows a tsunami is coming her way, that’s why she writes this in her face book:

    https://www.facebook.com/stephaniemillershow

    “Bill Press and I have heard you loud and clear about our support for the Salvation Army fundraising campaign. Please tune in tomorrow for the third hour of Talking Liberally/The Stephanie Miller Show for our joint response.” Love, Stephanie”

    I wonder how they are going to explain this fiasco.

  • FunMe

    “See no evil, hear no evil … lalala I can’t hear you, I’m collecting money for Salvation Hate the Gays Army!”

  • FunMe

    They’re always laughing, joking and being high schoolish … I don’t think they had time for “research”. :-)

  • FunMe

    Bingo! So THAT explains why she won’t criticize Salvation Army. What a shame for Stephanie joining with a group that hates “her kind”. :-(

  • FunMe

    I used to love Stephanie Miller. I listened to her every morning. But when she started to be a blind cheerleader for President Obama, never criticizing the President, even when he betrayed progressives, I stopped listening to her. I even sent her an email expressing my disgust on how she was just letting the President get away with whatever he wanted when it was hurting the American people. She never answered.

    It doesn’t surprise me what she has done here with the Salvation Army. Sometimes I just don’t get it.

  • sherman

    The donation pages are still up. Steph has raised a total of $1150 from 13 donors, including one of $500, one $200, and 2 $100. Press has $100 from a single donor. The goal for each was $75,000. Insert footage of the Hindenberg or the agony of defeat skier. What were they thinking?

  • sherman

    source for that is her Facebook page.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Oh I know. You’re right, even that prohibition is debatable but I was talking from the standpoint of Biblical literalism — which would also indicate a whole slew of death-worthy offenses, including working on the Sabbath, which is NOT Sunday. It’s just that any claims that it also forbids lesbianism isn’t debatable at all. There’s nothing in there about it.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    First of all, the Salvation Army is no actual ‘army’ per se, and ‘Major’ is a title they’ve simply presumed for themselves to pretend like they’re a military organization and not chiefly religious.

    Secondly, the “Major” and his denials notwithstanding, he’s lying about the the Salvation Army not discriminating against LGBT folks. In the post above and in lots of other reputable news sources, there are plenty of documented examples of them doing so.

    It’s really not much different than inviting someone from the Klan on a show and let them assert that they’ve never been a racist organization, without correcting them or giving any indication you’re anything but in complete agreement with them. It would have been trivial for Stephanie Miller to find many, many cases of anti-gay discrimination to contradict the Salvation Army’s claims.

  • http://www.facebook.com/scott.bard Scott Bard

    “Bill Press and I have heard you loud and clear about our support for the Salvation Army fundraising campaign. Please tune in tomorrow for the third hour of Talking Liberally/The Stephanie Miller Show for our joint response.” Love, Stephanie”

  • themac921

    just caught this on madisonradio.com and ill tell u what i told them there. i was listening at the time. i think it was addressed. the major came on the show in the third hour and said the sal army has never discriminated against gays or athiests.

  • Sweetie

    Yeah, it’s pretty funny to be this dumb.

  • Sweetie

    Exactly. It’s not like it takes a rocket scientist to look at the organization’s name and figure out that something’s not quite right.

    We’re talking Carrie’s mother and the mother from The Dead Zone.

  • Sweetie

    “It forbids sexual intimacy between men.”

    That is quite debatable. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibx1.htm

  • Sweetie

    Maddow was a cheerleader for the death of the public option “ANY BILL IS HISTORIC! RAH! RAH! RAH!”, and has other serious blind spots.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Bosse/608235497 Joe Bosse

    oops, and Miller is no better if she buys this crap. it’s all paid advertising for these people. They use their personal leanings to advance corporate (and their own) profit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Bosse/608235497 Joe Bosse

    I used to really like Maddow, but since she’s been on TV she’s fallen for many (pretty dumb) talking points, been amazingly wrong in her phrasing, and shown abject glee in petty attacks on other people’s sexuality, (see Marcus Bachmann) and not that his self hatred and predatory business practices shouldn’t be mocked, but her pure glee in mocking him personally is pathetic to watch. She does it pretty often to anyone she disagrees with and I find that offensive. I’m coming to the conclusion that Maddow is rapidly becoming the example of how big money makes people go bad.

  • Karangana

    Stephanie Miller? Oh yeah, loved her fake crush on Rush Feingold, her insane hatred of H. Clinton. I think she might be heading in the Tammy Bruce direction.

  • dula

    She has spoken at length about Goldwater/Miller and how they were kinder/gentler Republicans compared to those of today. She had me thinking Goldwater must have been quite moderate, similar to Eisenhower until I read up on him…he supported Joe McCarthy and the Southern Strategy, while opposing the Civil Rights Act, the New Deal, and labor rights. Stephanie has a way of rewriting history.

  • JamesR

    Your observation reminds me of an excellent piece (kinda redundant to say really) by Matt Taibbi analyzing the media free-for-all surrounding the Petreaus debacle, “One Interesting Thing About Paula Broadwell’s Petraeus Biography” for Rolling Stone.

    He both penetratingly and quite rudely skewers the media coverage of the celebrity [fill-in-the-blank.] Enjoy: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/one-interesting-thing-about-paula-broadwells-petraeus-biography-20121121

  • JamesR

    EXACTLY!

  • JamesR

    Here’s the key: their help is conditional on accepting, acquiescing to, and joining, their twisted sect.

    Which is, ironically, and painfully commonly, NOT ‘Scripture based.’

    Jesus didn’t dress up in fake military garb and help you only if you were a good Jew.

    These yahoos would turn away Jesus himself.

    Yet they beg for our money.

    They’re lucky they’ll get a voucher or a few words from me as I pass rather than what they really deserve in those cauldrons that look like chamber pots.

    SHAME ON YOU STEPHANIE! [And staff.] Really. I’m a fan, but you really fucked up. Big time. Please come clean, soon.

  • rpiper

    John get in touch with her or her producer. I’m pretty sure she would have you on. I would like to hear you two discuss this.

  • rhetoricus

    Stephanie Miller will address this on-air if she gets enough pressure. She’s a good egg, but needs to be pressed to tell the whole and true story.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I also would’ve figured a so-called “progressive” fledgling network would exercise some discretionary control over advertising. But on Current it’s wall-to-wall with Ask-Your-Doctor pharma ads and scam product commercials.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Would you like to buy a bridge I am selling? It’s really pretty and shiny.

  • Buford

    It’s called credibility. Conservatives want the media to be more conservative… progressives want the media to be more accurate.

  • Buford

    They lost me when they refused to give toys to children in Texas unless/until their parents could confirm their citizenship… since we all know that they were not nearly so picky when it came to folks who made those cash contributions outside the stores.

    Discriminating against the gays was just another nail in the coffin.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    It’s not about blinders, it’s about a corporate decision to support religious anti gay bigotry.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Simple, Miller is not ignorant. She’s is complicit with the policies of Salvation’s bigotry. She is one of those that would have been a cappo policewoman in the concentration camps.

  • http://adgitadiaries.com/ karmanot

    Ms. Stockholm Miller might see the light after an internet tsunami.

  • Butch1

    Stephanie Miller would be a liar. She doesn’t have a clue what she is talking about if she really believes that.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Noticed this as well, from the excerpt from the Salvation Army website:

    Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex.

    No, it does not. It forbids sexual intimacy between men. Anything regarding women has to be inferred from Paul’s Letters, which is not specific. In fact, the language of “and (Roman) women were given over to unnatural desires” continues the patriarchal notion that women are not actual people with free will and deserving of self-determination, and furthermore does not define ‘unnatural’ in any specificity at all. (The reference additionally clearly refers to ‘unnatural’ urges as a God-given curse in punishment for other vices and thus is nonsensical when trying to infer an injunction against lesbianism. I mean, really, God punished Romans for being sinful by making them more sinful? How does this even remotely logical?)

    But hey, it hardly matters because the injunctions against homosexuality between men were also littered with dozens of other rules modern day Christians ignore with impunity. They just want to pick the ones that let them hate people.

  • silverkjk

    I’d like to thank you, John, for the information in this posting. I was able to use it in an e-mail to a company here in New York City (Fresh Direct) that has added a “Donate to the Salvation Army” option on the page you get at check-out. It was very helpful.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    It’s funny, I clicked the link to come here thinking at first, “Really? Did Miller do a case-by-case refutation of all the anti-gay stuff I’ve heard about the Salvation Army over the last 10-20 years? Is she gonna go all Snopes.com on it, and make me rethink what I thought I knew about them? Well, guess it’s open mind time.”

    Then I read the post above. And as I usually do, checked on the veracity of the many reports of anti-LGBT positions and behavior on the part of the SA — turns out they’re all true. Saw in the comments how Miller apparently has some kind of conflict-of-interest thing going on with this donations contest with Bill Press.

    Turns out Miller is 100% wrong. And it seems pretty clear she and Press put on those blinders about SA’s past well-documented anti-gay/bi behavior willingly.

  • lynchie

    This link pretty well sums up where they stand.

    http://digitaljournal.com/article/315320

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Perhaps not AFA or NOM, but a hell of a lot of the UW money goes to religious charities and religious schools. And we both know how the Catholics, Baptists, and Evangelicals feel about LGBT folks.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    I objected to United Way back in the 1980s when I first began my professional career and not only did they have exclusive access to the company I worked for, in terms of automatic payroll deductions, but it was clear that supervisors and managers were under pressure to make employees sign up. Pretty sure there were even quotas, judging from the way the strong-arm measures increased as the deadline approached.

    The BS/GS discrimination was indeed one of the reasons I cited, as well as their support for religious charities.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Coleman/100001217693049 Thomas Coleman

    “Wrong, wrong, wrong” indeed. McCain still thinks we coulda, shoulda “won” Vietnam. No wonder he supported every other “Crazy Asian War.”

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    +^ this.

  • http://www.rebeccamorn.com/mind BeccaM

    Ah, now we have motive, and a conflict of interest I’m guessing she didn’t mention during her Salvation Army whitewashing show?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Coleman/100001217693049 Thomas Coleman

    With all the leading Q&A, seems like Miller was doing an infomercial with lots of false “info.”

  • craigkg

    A liberal, lesbian radio talk show host/comedienne and daughter of Barry Goldwater’s running mate in 1964, William E. Miller.

  • Richard

    I would think that Miller would have done some research prior to the interview. Reflects poorly on Current,, that their program hosts aren’t properly prepared.

  • ninjakiller

    Nicho, you have to stream her radio show or watch her on current tv. She’s a really funny and smart progressive voice, one of the few on radio. Her tv show is just her radio broadcast filmed.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    I had already left CDF – it was in 2001, I mentioned it in the post above.

  • http://AMERICAblog.com/ John Aravosis

    I don’t know her. I may have been on here show once or twice, by phone, I think, but that’s it. And I felt that this story had already gotten too big. An out lesbian had just exonerated four decades of hate from the Salvation Army. That had to be countered in print, to set the record straight for future Google searches – you know the Salvation Army is going to milk the fact that Miller said this, and that she and Bill Press are apparently doing a fundraiser for them.

  • tamarz

    John — wasn’t it while you were still at CDF that the Salvation Army was lobbying to be exempted from any kind of anti-discrimination provisions in getting funding from the government (during those Bush give-money-to-faith-based-organizations years)? Any time an organization doesn’t want to be subject to anti-discrimination rules, you know there’s a problem!

  • wmforr

    “Peers”? John’s a blogger. As Stephanie says,

    “Many of those things start fueling through blog sites and postings on the Internet and it’s really really tough to shut them down when they get out there.”

    Yes, Things like… facts, for instance.

  • sherman

    And a day into the fundraiser, the take is a whopping $450, with 2 donors accounting for $300 of it. Just $74,550 more to meet their goal. I hope they think it was worth alienating a chunk of their audience.

  • JMQuinn

    I don’t trust anyone with “salvation” or “army” in their title…

  • JMQuinn

    Stephanie Miller’s Facebook page is full of comments begging her to walk this back. Is this some Current TV thing because Bill Press is also supporting the Salvation Army. They’re doing some “challenge” to see who can raise the most money. Does Al Gore support the Salvation Army, too? WTF is wrong with them? This is more like a challenge to see who can lose the most listeners! Here I thought we only had to worry about Clear Channel switching our progressive stations to sports…

    This woman was fired from the Salvation Army THIS YEAR for being bi.

    “On Monday, July 23, 2012 that all changed. I was fired from my job as a case worker with the Salvation Army of Burlington, Vermont because I came out to them as bisexual and raised concerns about sections in their employee handbook relating to sexual orientation and employment discrimination.” ~ Danielle Morantez

    http://www.bilerico.com/2012/07/i_was_fired_by_the_salvation_army_because_im_bisexual.php

  • nicho

    Who the hell is Stephanie Miller?

  • FLL

    Agreed. My point is that John and Gaius Publius know each other, so it would be normal for them to talk with each other first. I don’t really know, but I doubt if John and Stephanie Miller know each other. What surprised me was the highly publicized “Online Red Kettle” competition in which Miller is partnering with the Salvation Army:

    http://www.onlineredkettle.org/StephanieMiller

    Like you, I hope this is a teachable moment. I think Miller will probably hear from any number of bloggers and journalists.

  • FLL

    And now, bringing you the worst of the worst… Stephanie Miller is partnering with the Salvation Army this season in the official (drumroll, please) Online Red Kettle competition:

    http://www.onlineredkettle.org/StephanieMiller

    The subtitle on this webpage claims that the Salvation Army is “doing the most good,” suggesting that this is the best option for donation money. You would think that Miller might educate herself before entering into a highly publicized partnership with the Salvation Army in which she is competing with Bill Press to see who can raise more money for the Salvation Army. What is going on with Stephanie Miller, I wonder?

  • A_nonymoose

    The term “outing” was probably a poor choice of words. And I wasn’t really singling John out. I really don’t “know” anybody in the media, so it’s more a question of process rather than anything. If she’s an “ally” (his term), then why not ask her first, why not use this as a teachable moment? The nature of the net in general is to be out there for anyone to criticize, and I certainly don’t mind the criticism from you. I probably deserved it. If Gaius Publius said something that was just plain wrong, I’m sure John would say something to him about it; I just was wondering how far that courtesy would go.

  • S1AMER

    Meanwhile, is anybody making a serious effort to get her to do a correction? And an apology might be in order as well.

  • FLL

    Outing someone (or something) is making something public that wasn’t previously public. That isn’t the case here since John is simply commenting on a radio show that is already part of public record. Why are you implying that Miller’s comments on her show were private and that John was causing damage by being the first one to reveal them to the public by “outing” those comments? Your accusation sounds odd.

  • Naja pallida

    I can understand not wanting to undercut “one of your own”, but I personally would like to see more of this. If we can’t even keep our own side honest, how the hell do we expect to ever stand up to Republican lies and propaganda? Not that I want to encourage you or the blog to become some kind of rabid attack dog lashing out at everyone, but you should be able to call out anyone on blatantly obvious lies and misinformation, regardless of their political leanings. Lies are lies, and the only way to address it is to confront them with facts.

  • Naja pallida

    Republicans believe that all video tape is a lie. Unless it is a heavily doctored tape released on Breitbart. Then it is gospel.

    I particularly love Rachel’s latest theme of pointing out that John McCain, though he has been a frequent guest commenter for foreign policy matters on every damn talk show out there for a long, long time, has been absolutely wrong on everything to do with foreign policy matters for the last 20+ years.

    John McCain alone pretty much sums up what is wrong with the media right now, all in one nice package. A showcase of sycophantic interviewers fawning over a guest who knows nothing, and has nothing informative nor useful to contribute to the discourse, but yet is cited as some kind of authority despite having a track record of being nothing but wrong, wrong, wrong.

  • sherman

    Hood: “it’s a great misunderstanding that’s spread across the country”.

    Miller: “you’re right, Major, once things get out there, you know”

    Sure sounds like she’s facilitating his white-wash job.

    She is seeking donations for the Salvation Anti-Gay Army, and I believe is in a contest with Bill Press to see who can raise the most money for them.

  • Drew2u

    how disappointing. I have to listen to her and liberal radio on my computer or phone if I want to hear it at all. I guess this holiday season I will be taking a break from her show.

  • Egan Foote

    You can criticize Miller for not challenging him, but I do not see anywhere in that interview where she made any statement, one way or another, endorsing any position. It appears that the only idea she endorsed was that rumors spread on the internet. None of us can argue with that. She should certainly be criticized for inviting someone on the show completely unprepared to challenge them, but that is a far cry from claiming that she said criticisms of the Salvation Army was an internet lie.

  • A_nonymoose

    John, seeing as you are “peers”, have you reached out to her to correct her? Before outing her online, so to speak. Just wondering.

  • dula

    Stephanie Miller is more concerned with her career than any sort of political integrity. She avoids any sort of confrontation or controversy. She fawns all over her guests and has served her role well as an Obama/Democratic Party apologist for the past 4 years. She just wants to be famous, poor thing.

  • UncleBucky

    I am not in a high-density Salvation Army area, but I put my first voucher. I did not show it to the worker, and she thanked me for it. Hah. Well, I will have to run the same gauntlet today. And I will see if the worker will be alerted to someone putting a voucher instead of a buck. Let’s see.

  • Indigo

    In the face of ignorance, education is the best response. In the face of sheer stubborn willful ignorant ranting, mental health concerns are the best response. A sociopath is a sociopath is a sociopath. The Salvation Army cultivates sociopaths. That makes it a mental healthy issue and we just don’t concern ourselves with that any more. I’m not sure that sociopathy and ignorance are protected by the First Amendment but it certainly seems that way these days.

  • caphillprof

    Yes, what’s with that?

  • harryunderwood

    Hi John, I think you should replace the Wikipedia link on Salvationa Army 1980′s activism with this page from NZHistory.net.nz. The Wikipedia pection linked says nothing about the 1980′s activism against the Homosexual Law Reform Act: http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/homosexual-law-reform/reforming-the-law

    The section on New Zealand links to the NZ Salvation Army’s 2006 statement of non-apology regarding their anti-gay activism. http://salvationarmy.org.nz/uploads/TSA_and_Homosexual_Law_Reform_Bill.pdf

  • wmforr

    I never give to the United Way, precisely because I want to choose my charities, not have them chosen for me. What could be worse than contributing to UW though your employer’s pressure and then learning they are contributing to AFA or NOM? Not that they are, but it could happen.

  • wmforr

    All too many journalists do no research and take what the interviewee says on face value. Rachel Maddow, as most of us know, together with her incredible staff, always does her homework, and she usually knows more about the guest’s past record than he does himself.

    Of course, they all do a Cheney and say, “I never said that” right after she shows the video of them saying it.

  • Tony T

    Love Stephanie. This whole interview had the feeling that no research went behind it and they were being kind to the fatherly guest.

  • Sally

    Too bad Miller didn’t do five minutes worth of research before she did this interview. I am not giving to United Way either, until they stop supporting BSA. When my daughter was a Brownie, her troop leader was incensed that our United Way gave a load of money to Boy Scouts, and none to Girl Scouts. Guess they prefer the discriminating groups.

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